2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:38 pm

ATLeagle wrote:Dick:

Who do you think Arizona hires? I also don't understand their sudden Michigan/Carolina push to keep it in the family.


While I will have much to report on 3rd Down Donnie Brown in short order, my insight into the basketball program and Dave Heeke’s thinking is limited as a result of some harsh but fair comments directed at Mr. Albion College during this past year’s Desert Duel.

With that said, I have been told that the feeling is that it’s Lloyd’s job to lose. Stoudamire will get an interview to help raise his profile so that he can hopefully get a better job then Pacific. Basketball people appear to think he has done as well as can be expected at Pacific and they’d like to see him be able to move up to a program that is not at such a horrendous competitive disadvantage with the better teams in its conference. I was told that Heeke was looking at Pope last year, but was not given permission to shit can Miller because of some huge Athletic Department shortfalls caused by the football program utterly imploding under Sumlin and a corresponding fundraising implosion. Of course, now BYU has extended Pope out to 2027 with a big kick up in salary and buyout that Arizona would not be able to overcome, even if Pope was willing to leave Provo for Tucson, which isn’t likely anymore. Of course, the real reason that Heeke is stuck with the Gonzaga assistant as his first option is because Josh Pastner is a scumbag. He was always supposed to eventually return to Tucson—presumably when Sean Miller was ready to retire in a decade or so. That would have put Pastner at 50 years of age or thereabouts—roughly the same age Lute was when he arrived in Tucson. Using booster money to take recruits to strip joints would not be disqualifying for the UofA job in most circumstances—as anyone who watched Chris Mills driving around campus in a red 911 with the vanity plate “Lench Mob” (admittedly, this could have been leftover from his time at Kentucky) or Brian Williams/Bison Dele’s sweet decked out Bronco (admittedly could have been from Maryland) or Matt Othick’s Mercedes (Tarkanian later claimed “Back Door Lute” had outbid him for Othick’s services)—but having a post season ban on your resume after all of Sean Miller’s scumbaggery, took out the future head coach in waiting.

One completely wild ass rumor that is making the rounds is that if Heeke isn’t sold on Lloyd during the interview—which apparently happened this past Friday—that there is some basketball booster pressure to see if Luke Walton, who will certainly be fired by the Kings at the end of the season, has any interest in the job. The feeling in that camp is that Walton had an impossible situation in LA—between the roster being gutted, the front office getting fired, dealing with Magic Johnson’s prima donna act (and Johnson being an incredibly bad executive) and Bron-Bron and the cobbled together 2018-19 roster all getting hurt at the same time and missing the second half of the season. And the Kings will always be the Kings—the only blame there being taking the job in the first place instead of waiting for something better.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:08 am

BCMurt09 wrote:
HJS wrote:
angrychicken wrote:I really don't care who the coach is as long as he's willing to wear a mock turtleneck from Eastern Clothing of Watertown.

I'm shocked that no one has yet mentioned the most obvious candidate. We don't deserve nice things when we can't come up with layup elite coaches (while tying ourselves in knots over Coen, Gates and Eisley).
There is a readily available... minority head coach... in his 40s... familiar with New England... 17 years in the NBA... and coached his team to a National Championship.


I was deep into Division III coaching staffs before I realized who you were talking about. NCAA violations notwithstanding, he couldn't be any worse than Dennis Gates.

Big miss my DOCTOR Kraft.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby durkcal on Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:45 am

yeah, the backstory on Ollie has to be interesting if he can't get hired. If you would tell this board in 2015 that we would have an opening and Kevin Ollie would be available, and yet never even mentioned, no one would believe that. Such is how fast the currents move in college basketball.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Corporal Funishment on Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:09 am

durkcal wrote:yeah, the backstory on Ollie has to be interesting if he can't get hired. If you would tell this board in 2015 that we would have an opening and Kevin Ollie would be available, and yet never even mentioned, no one would believe that. Such is how fast the currents move in college basketball.


Ollie was given a show-cause penalty as a result of UConn paying a recruit. He's not hirable as a college coach until 2022. On top of that, he also did enough damage to his reputation as an actual coach that his next job will probably be at a mid-major.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby 2001Eagle on Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:24 am

:suicide
Corporal Funishment wrote:
durkcal wrote:yeah, the backstory on Ollie has to be interesting if he can't get hired. If you would tell this board in 2015 that we would have an opening and Kevin Ollie would be available, and yet never even mentioned, no one would believe that. Such is how fast the currents move in college basketball.


Ollie was given a show-cause penalty as a result of UConn paying a recruit. He's not hirable as a college coach until 2022. On top of that, he also did enough damage to his reputation as an actual coach that his next job will probably be at a mid-major.


He was a regular at a lot of west Hartford bars and was known to keep his actual work schedule pretty light.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Corporal Funishment on Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:28 am

2001Eagle wrote::suicide
Corporal Funishment wrote:
durkcal wrote:yeah, the backstory on Ollie has to be interesting if he can't get hired. If you would tell this board in 2015 that we would have an opening and Kevin Ollie would be available, and yet never even mentioned, no one would believe that. Such is how fast the currents move in college basketball.


Ollie was given a show-cause penalty as a result of UConn paying a recruit. He's not hirable as a college coach until 2022. On top of that, he also did enough damage to his reputation as an actual coach that his next job will probably be at a mid-major.


He was a regular at a lot of west Hartford bars and was known to keep his actual work schedule pretty light.


The amusing rumor is that by the time the recruiting violations surfaced, UConn had already resolved to fire the guy. Therefore, the school didn't fight the charges because firing the coach for cause saved them quite a bit of money over merely firing him for not winning games. He's suing the school over this.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:34 pm

ATLeagle wrote:
HJS wrote:Sean Miller out in Zona. Tough offseason for the Miller boys.


If Tommy Lloyd ends up at Arizona, I will be a bit frustrated. He would have been in the mix last year if not for COVID saving JC. This year we obviously went with "head coaching experience" as a must.

Be a bit frustrated.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:03 pm

Head coaching experience is a must, still stupid.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:04 pm

HJS wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:
HJS wrote:Sean Miller out in Zona. Tough offseason for the Miller boys.


If Tommy Lloyd ends up at Arizona, I will be a bit frustrated. He would have been in the mix last year if not for COVID saving JC. This year we obviously went with "head coaching experience" as a must.

Be a bit frustrated.


Interesting to see that this hire is not getting universal approval within Wildcat nation. Support is a lukewarm 60-40 percent. The McHale Center Mafia seems to think they should have been able to pry away a proven winner of a head coach—frustration that Heeke didn’t take a run at Beard, which I had not heard anything about until today’s hiring was announced. And a lot of angst that they couldn’t make that kind of hire (remember, they lured Olsen away from a far more established Iowa program back in the day and got Miller from Xavier when there were several baby rapists seeking his services) because (a) Heeke imploded the athletic budget and (b) Heeke didn’t cut ties with Miller sooner and got the NCAA sanctions behind them.

Lots of anger at “Mid Major Dave” across the Interwebs.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:51 am

Dick Rosenthal wrote:
HJS wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:
HJS wrote:Sean Miller out in Zona. Tough offseason for the Miller boys.


If Tommy Lloyd ends up at Arizona, I will be a bit frustrated. He would have been in the mix last year if not for COVID saving JC. This year we obviously went with "head coaching experience" as a must.

Be a bit frustrated.


Interesting to see that this hire is not getting universal approval within Wildcat nation. Support is a lukewarm 60-40 percent. The McHale Center Mafia seems to think they should have been able to pry away a proven winner of a head coach—frustration that Heeke didn’t take a run at Beard, which I had not heard anything about until today’s hiring was announced. And a lot of angst that they couldn’t make that kind of hire (remember, they lured Olsen away from a far more established Iowa program back in the day and got Miller from Xavier when there were several baby rapists seeking his services) because (a) Heeke imploded the athletic budget and (b) Heeke didn’t cut ties with Miller sooner and got the NCAA sanctions behind them.

Lots of anger at “Mid Major Dave” across the Interwebs.

I think it is understandable. He has lived his entire life in Washington and spent 20 years as an assistant who focused almost exclusively as an international recruiter. For a school like Zona, who views themselves as a basketball blue blood, it is underwhelming. The international thing could've worked at a crap program like BC. But, Zona thinks they should be landing Mickey D diaper dandies. And, then there is the never a head coach thing. Teddy is right that it is idiotic to limit a search (the worse the program, the dumber it is to constrain). Ultimately, you are hiring a person... not a resume. That said, Arizona likely feels that they should be able to poach pretty much any coach they wanted. And, if you were going to go the unproved route, they should've done it with someone from within the family (like a school legend toiling away as Pacific's head coach).
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:05 am

HJS wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:
HJS wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:
HJS wrote:Sean Miller out in Zona. Tough offseason for the Miller boys.


If Tommy Lloyd ends up at Arizona, I will be a bit frustrated. He would have been in the mix last year if not for COVID saving JC. This year we obviously went with "head coaching experience" as a must.

Be a bit frustrated.


Interesting to see that this hire is not getting universal approval within Wildcat nation. Support is a lukewarm 60-40 percent. The McHale Center Mafia seems to think they should have been able to pry away a proven winner of a head coach—frustration that Heeke didn’t take a run at Beard, which I had not heard anything about until today’s hiring was announced. And a lot of angst that they couldn’t make that kind of hire (remember, they lured Olsen away from a far more established Iowa program back in the day and got Miller from Xavier when there were several baby rapists seeking his services) because (a) Heeke imploded the athletic budget and (b) Heeke didn’t cut ties with Miller sooner and got the NCAA sanctions behind them.

Lots of anger at “Mid Major Dave” across the Interwebs.

I think it is understandable. He has lived his entire life in Washington and spent 20 years as an assistant who focused almost exclusively as an international recruiter. For a school like Zona, who views themselves as a basketball blue blood, it is underwhelming. The international thing could've worked at a crap program like BC. But, Zona thinks they should be landing Mickey D diaper dandies. And, then there is the never a head coach thing. Teddy is right that it is idiotic to limit a search (the worse the program, the dumber it is to constrain). Ultimately, you are hiring a person... not a resume. That said, Arizona likely feels that they should be able to poach pretty much any coach they wanted. And, if you were going to go the unproved route, they should've done it with someone from within the family (like a school legend toiling away as Pacific's head coach).


It’s entirely understandable, and the truth is it is ridiculous that Heeke kept Miller around for almost two years after he should have been fired or that he didn’t take a run at an established winner like Beard. I get why they didn’t make a run at Moser—probably not the right fit in terms of recruiting—but it does not sit well in Tucson that Oregon has got Altman and UCLA has Cronin and they are taking a chance on a guy who has never run a program. A lot of comparisons being drawn with Hopkins at U-Dub, which is not a good thing.

Interestingly, there was zero clamoring for Stoudemire. And I don’t think his hiring would be better received—more likely, it would be even more of a “meh” reaction. General consensus is he isn’t ready for prime time. He has surpassed expectations at Pacific, which is a graveyard job for football and basketball coaches, but the feeling is that he ought to parlay that into a better mid-major program job and show he can win there before he would be ready for a job like Zona. Nor was there any clamoring for Pastner, because he has pretty much hit a perfect level of medicority since Memphis moved from Conference USA to the AAC—his subsequent performance at Georgia Tech being equally meh (and including a recruiting scandal). Luke Walton is pretty much the only alum who might have entertained the job who would have excited the alumni and fan base.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby BC923 on Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:18 am

Stoudemire climbing the ranks, Sheed coaching high school ball. We’re getting closer to the ability to field an all Jailblazer staff. I hope someone has the courage to do so.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:27 am

Dick Rosenthal wrote:
HJS wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:
HJS wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:
HJS wrote:Sean Miller out in Zona. Tough offseason for the Miller boys.


If Tommy Lloyd ends up at Arizona, I will be a bit frustrated. He would have been in the mix last year if not for COVID saving JC. This year we obviously went with "head coaching experience" as a must.

Be a bit frustrated.


Interesting to see that this hire is not getting universal approval within Wildcat nation. Support is a lukewarm 60-40 percent. The McHale Center Mafia seems to think they should have been able to pry away a proven winner of a head coach—frustration that Heeke didn’t take a run at Beard, which I had not heard anything about until today’s hiring was announced. And a lot of angst that they couldn’t make that kind of hire (remember, they lured Olsen away from a far more established Iowa program back in the day and got Miller from Xavier when there were several baby rapists seeking his services) because (a) Heeke imploded the athletic budget and (b) Heeke didn’t cut ties with Miller sooner and got the NCAA sanctions behind them.

Lots of anger at “Mid Major Dave” across the Interwebs.

I think it is understandable. He has lived his entire life in Washington and spent 20 years as an assistant who focused almost exclusively as an international recruiter. For a school like Zona, who views themselves as a basketball blue blood, it is underwhelming. The international thing could've worked at a crap program like BC. But, Zona thinks they should be landing Mickey D diaper dandies. And, then there is the never a head coach thing. Teddy is right that it is idiotic to limit a search (the worse the program, the dumber it is to constrain). Ultimately, you are hiring a person... not a resume. That said, Arizona likely feels that they should be able to poach pretty much any coach they wanted. And, if you were going to go the unproved route, they should've done it with someone from within the family (like a school legend toiling away as Pacific's head coach).


It’s entirely understandable, and the truth is it is ridiculous that Heeke kept Miller around for almost two years after he should have been fired or that he didn’t take a run at an established winner like Beard. I get why they didn’t make a run at Moser—probably not the right fit in terms of recruiting—but it does not sit well in Tucson that Oregon has got Altman and UCLA has Cronin and they are taking a chance on a guy who has never run a program. A lot of comparisons being drawn with Hopkins at U-Dub, which is not a good thing.

Interestingly, there was zero clamoring for Stoudemire. And I don’t think his hiring would be better received—more likely, it would be even more of a “meh” reaction. General consensus is he isn’t ready for prime time. He has surpassed expectations at Pacific, which is a graveyard job for football and basketball coaches, but the feeling is that he ought to parlay that into a better mid-major program job and show he can win there before he would be ready for a job like Zona. Nor was there any clamoring for Pastner, because he has pretty much hit a perfect level of medicority since Memphis moved from Conference USA to the AAC—his subsequent performance at Georgia Tech being equally meh (and including a recruiting scandal). Luke Walton is pretty much the only alum who might have entertained the job who would have excited the alumni and fan base.

Here's the thing... none of those bolded rationale for not hiring someone is fulfilled by Lloyd. Can't go Moser because of recruiting fit so you choose an international expert? Can't go Stoudemire because he hasn't had sustained success as a mid-major head coach and can't go Pastner because he has mediocre success as a Power 5 head coach, so you choose Lloyd who is a mid-major assistant with zero head coaching success.

Again... you are hiring an actual person for the job and the resume doesn't always show the whole picture. They loved him at Gonzaga like Hopkins was loved in Cuse. But, it feels like one of those walks down Electric Avenue where there are complaints about all known quantities, so you wind up with something that hasn't had a chance to build-up negative groundswell.
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