Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:54 am

HJS {l Wrote}:
Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:
flyingelvii {l Wrote}:He got paid and got lucky. Like 8 things had to happen for him to get the ND position starting with him choosing ND over LSU, Cincy making the playoffs to take Fickell off the market, Coach O pissing off boosters two years after a National Championship, Lincoln Riley choosing USC, and I’m sure others. Better to be lucky than good.


Yes, a lot of luck involved, but the fact that he took ND over LSU showed some awareness. Elko did not have that sort of awareness when he took the money and jumped ship to A&M, which did nothing but hurt his reputation as a defensive genius--especially when coupled with the fact that Lea came in and the defense outperformed what it did under Elko (more as a result of improved recruiting that anything Lea did, but it didn't help). Lea's decision is even more baffling. I know he is an alum, but Vandy is where promising coaches go to kill their careers. Yes, Franklin did well by Vandy standards (6-7, 9-4, 8-4) but benefitted from a few very unique historical anomalies within the SEC all happening at the same time (specifically Ole Miss, Tennessee, Florida and Kentucky being bad beyond any historical norms all at the same time). Lea should have avoided that job like the plague and banked the current 11-1 season. While he admittedly would have been clairvoyant to see Kelly being lured away by LSU, I am guessing that Lea would have been a top candidate for the ND job had he still been there and at the very least would have been a candidate for some of the better available jobs that opened this year.

Nothing in this explanation is an argument that speaks to Freeman being anything other than lucky.

After multiple years, Elko leaves for more money... defense was just as good under Lea... which proves it was really about talent and not coaching ability of either coach...
After multiple years, Lea leaves for more money... defense wasn't as good under Freeman... which proves it was really about talent and not coaching ability of either coach...
After a few months, Freeman is rewarded as head coach based on his brilliant career move of not leaving for another job during the season.

I'd note that, during the season, Domers were happy about Freeman's recruiting... less so his coaching. Started the year giving up a ton of points to the likes of FSU, Toledo, VT and UNC. Combine that with a Cincy loss, plenty ND alums were underwhelmed. But, ND ended the year with the gauntlet of QB-less teams in USNA, UVA, GT and Stanford. Freeman's D inflated season stats by surrendering a mere combined 23 points. Huzzah!!! No-brainer hire! JurkWatch forever, Tommy Rees never!



I never said luck wasn't a large part of it, but there are certain choices made by Elko and Lea that were bad decisions on their face. In Elko's case, wringing every dime out of A&M in a place where he was not likely to succeed as well at Notre Dame. A&M offered Elko a boatload of money, but he took that offer back to Notre Dame who promptly matched it before Elko shopped that counter back to A&M and wrung out an extra $200K from them. When you are slated to make $1.7 million, this is stupid and self-defeating. He destroyed any goodwill he had at Notre Dame, he pissed off some in the A&M community, and he entered the SEC with less talent than three or four teams he had to play each year. Elko stays at Notre Dame, he makes a couple of CFPs and leads two top 5 defenses and by now he is sitting in a decent P5 head coaching job instead of Duke--quite literally one of the three worst P5 football jobs out there. And he is sitting at Duke because, predictably, he went from being the defensive genius who started landing high 4 star DL and LB recruits at Notre Dame running a lock down defense to being the guy whose defense was getting torched on the regular--because the offensive talent in the SEC is off the charts--and getting out recruited at A&M (even though he was bringing in just as many 4 star recruits at A&M) because his primary rivals in conference feast on illiterate 5 stars. He is also perceived as an untrustworthy dick in some quarters because of the money grubbing thing. All foreseeable and something a savvy coach would have avoided.

It's probably even more pronounced for Lea. He shuns Vandy, which every reasonable savvy coach who isn't desperate for a head coaching opportunity does (people forget that Franklin took the Vandy job because he and Randy Edsall hated each other and he was about to get fired at Maryland) he is probably sifting through some very good opportunities this year--I was told by a prominent VT grad that they were willing to chuck Fuentes over the side at the end of last year to get Lea, but Lea turned them down to take the Vandy gig. And while as previously discussed, VT ain't the job it was a decade ago, its a damn sight better than Vandy. And as with Lea, all of the problems he has now are entirely foreseeable.

As for Freeman, he turned down an extra $150K for ND because he was savvy enough to see that it was, at least at that point in time, a better job in pretty much every way than the LSU gig. He recognized that expectations would be relatively modest at ND after a playoff appearance and being a good talent evaluator, recognized that ND probably had more 1st and 2nd round talent on its defensive roster than LSU and a schedule that would help him get his feet under him in his first year on the big stage. That's what a savvy coach does and it worked to his benefit--the D was shitty the first two games while it got used to his new scheme, but was fortunate that it was against two teams that the offense could score on. After that, the defense looked pretty good to dominant. Even the Cincy game, the defense was good--offense basically gave up 10 points and left another 9-21 points on the table with poor play and horrendous Kelly-dominated play calling. Yes, Freeman certainly lucked into the ND job, but he made a couple of savvy decisions that his two predecessors were not smart enough to make. Even if he hadn't landed the ND job, at the end of this past season he'd have been looking at taking over at Cincinnati or would have been a serious candidate for the Tech and UVA gigs or heading out to work for Riley as a DC for north of $2 million or two a DC slot at one of the open SEC gigs or staying at ND for another year under Kelly with a raise to go along with it and some incoming 5 star talent on defense.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:44 am

I'd argue that even if Elko or Lea stayed at ND, Freeman would be a hotter commodity than both because (a) recruiting, (b) recruiting, (c) recruiting, (d) age and (e) "fit."
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby hansen on Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:46 pm

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:that has the distinct smell of #beadude vines but might be even cringier


Way more cringe… not even close
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:43 pm

Oregon hired the DC from UGA (Dan Lanning) as its head coach. Meaning... that Marty will not be lucky enough to have Chip Kelly skip town on his own. UCLA will have to use some of the Under Armour lawsuit money to clear the way for Jarmond's coach.

Interestingly, the 2015 Alabama team had 6 current Power 5 Head Coaches as assistants: Kirby Smart (UGA), Mel Tucker (MSU), Lane Kiffin (Miss), Billy Napier (UF), Mario Cristobal (Mia) and Dan Lanning (Ore). Tosh Lupoi was considered at the time to be among the best on that staff (at least from a recruiting perspective) and someone who would quickly become a head coach. His career has stalled and is toiling away with the Jags. But, rumors are that Napier is targeting him as his DC.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby ATLeagle on Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:52 pm

As goofy as he has been, I still think Kelly does well at LSU. The last three guys there won national titles. Kelly is pretty good at hiring assistants. If he keeps the local talent he will be good every year and great some years. Saban is 70. He will start slipping soon.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby hansen on Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:03 pm

ATLeagle {l Wrote}:As goofy as he has been, I still think Kelly does well at LSU. The last three guys there won national titles. Kelly is pretty good at hiring assistants. If he keeps the local talent he will be good every year and great some years. Saban is 70. He will start slipping soon.


Greatest collegiate coach of all-time can lose a couple mph off his fastball and still dominate.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby TontoKowalski on Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:35 pm

hansen {l Wrote}:
ATLeagle {l Wrote}:As goofy as he has been, I still think Kelly does well at LSU. The last three guys there won national titles. Kelly is pretty good at hiring assistants. If he keeps the local talent he will be good every year and great some years. Saban is 70. He will start slipping soon.


Greatest collegiate coach of all-time can lose a couple mph off his fastball and still dominate.


I'm kinda skeptical of Kelly at LSU. There will be systemic disagreements about things early on in rooms full of hotheads who hold grudges. LSU is also impatient in ways where ND wasn't. We'll see.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby claver2010 on Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:33 am

eh there's so much talent down there that's loyal to the state you really have to fuck it up. between the talent and resources it's a top 5 job easily and probably top 3. for all the handwringing by angrydick, kelly is a good coach and got ND to about as high as they could go in this environment
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby hansen on Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:22 am

TontoKowalski {l Wrote}:
hansen {l Wrote}:
ATLeagle {l Wrote}:As goofy as he has been, I still think Kelly does well at LSU. The last three guys there won national titles. Kelly is pretty good at hiring assistants. If he keeps the local talent he will be good every year and great some years. Saban is 70. He will start slipping soon.


Greatest collegiate coach of all-time can lose a couple mph off his fastball and still dominate.


I'm kinda skeptical of Kelly at LSU. There will be systemic disagreements about things early on in rooms full of hotheads who hold grudges. LSU is also impatient in ways where ND wasn't. We'll see.


Oh, I was referring to Saban and being serious.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:31 am

Urban Meyer out of Jacksonville.

Given how they drafted, given who they are building that thing around, given his recent loss of assistants and given the diatribe on the current state of college athletics… I could see Dabo being a very real possibility for the Jags.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:41 am

HJS {l Wrote}:Urban Meyer out of Jacksonville.

Given how they drafted, given who they are building that thing around, given his recent loss of assistants and given the diatribe on the current state of college athletics… I could see Dabo being a very real possibility for the Jags.

and the getting fired in 2 years when the team sucks as badly as they do now. dabo is a dancer first, recruiter second and coach 99th
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:20 am

Khan is not making the same mistake twice.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:38 am

Urban Meyer reclamation project! What better way to rehabilitate his image than to come to a fine Jesuit school that puts little emphasis in winning at sports. It allows him to return to his Catholic roots and like the prodigal son, to return to the living embrace of the Lord after wandering in the Sodom and Gomorrah of Florida, tOSU and the NFL. Plus, by the time he takes us to the CFP, either Kelly or Freeman will have failed at LSU or ND and he can move on.

Added bonus, our pool of coed talent is not going to pose the sort of temptations that purportedly had his wife quashing a move to USC.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:40 am

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:Urban Meyer out of Jacksonville.

Given how they drafted, given who they are building that thing around, given his recent loss of assistants and given the diatribe on the current state of college athletics… I could see Dabo being a very real possibility for the Jags.

and the getting fired in 2 years when the team sucks as badly as they do now. dabo is a dancer first, recruiter second and coach 99th

I am well aware. I'm not saying he'd be good at the job. Just saying that Trevor could pull a Herzlich and Dabo would be over-the-moon about moving before he ruins his chances at being hired by his alma mater (i.e. if he is exposed as a terrible coach sans Elliott and Venables). I also think nothing about Khan. He hasn't necessarily inspired confidence in running the organization. So, I can see him falling for the rah-rah player's coach thing. All that said, Dabo and Urban are opposite ends of the spectrum. One is competent but an asshole... the other is lovable puppy with a similar IQ.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby Supahfan99 on Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:36 am

Daz and Meyer both available on the open market. Imagine those two coming back together as a package deal somewhere. Yukon must be kicking themselves for filling that position so quickly! :whammy
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby claver2010 on Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:15 am

some familiar names:

https://theathletic.com/3550552/2022/08 ... -carousel/

College football assistant coaches to watch this season: Bruce Feldman’s hot list

21. Justin Frye, Ohio State, associate head coach, O-line coach

The 38-year-old former Indiana offensive tackle was a graduate assistant under Urban Meyer at Florida before coaching with Ryan Day at both Temple and Boston College. He spent the past four seasons a right hand man to Chip Kelly at UCLA, where they’ve overhauled the program and put together a pretty nasty running attack. Last season, the Bruins led the Pac-12 in scoring and were No. 2 in total offense. Frye returns to the Big Ten and should improve the Buckeyes O-line and make OSU’s run game even more potent. This is a guy who will get snapped up to be someone’s head coach before too long in FBS football.

34. Aazaar Abdul-Rahim, Boston College, associate head coach, DB coach, passing game coordinator

The Eagles have made huge strides in their pass defense since Jeff Hafley took over and brought Abdul-Rahim to BC. In the year before they arrived, BC ranked No. 114 in passer rating allowed. They shot up to No. 28 in 2021. More impressively, they’ve gone from No. 124 in long pass plays allowed (20 yards plus) up to No. 2 in the country. Give a lot of credit to Abdul-Rahim for that. It’s part of why he drew interest from Power 5 programs for their DC vacancies, and don’t be surprised if there are a lot more offers this winter.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby OCs_Inner_Eagle on Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:25 pm

claver2010 {l Wrote}:some familiar names:

https://theathletic.com/3550552/2022/08 ... -carousel/

College football assistant coaches to watch this season: Bruce Feldman’s hot list

21. Justin Frye, Ohio State, associate head coach, O-line coach

The 38-year-old former Indiana offensive tackle was a graduate assistant under Urban Meyer at Florida before coaching with Ryan Day at both Temple and Boston College. He spent the past four seasons a right hand man to Chip Kelly at UCLA, where they’ve overhauled the program and put together a pretty nasty running attack. Last season, the Bruins led the Pac-12 in scoring and were No. 2 in total offense. Frye returns to the Big Ten and should improve the Buckeyes O-line and make OSU’s run game even more potent. This is a guy who will get snapped up to be someone’s head coach before too long in FBS football.

34. Aazaar Abdul-Rahim, Boston College, associate head coach, DB coach, passing game coordinator

The Eagles have made huge strides in their pass defense since Jeff Hafley took over and brought Abdul-Rahim to BC. In the year before they arrived, BC ranked No. 114 in passer rating allowed. They shot up to No. 28 in 2021. More impressively, they’ve gone from No. 124 in long pass plays allowed (20 yards plus) up to No. 2 in the country. Give a lot of credit to Abdul-Rahim for that. It’s part of why he drew interest from Power 5 programs for their DC vacancies, and don’t be surprised if there are a lot more offers this winter.


If it weren't for Fr. Leahy and others in BC administration, I'd expect Aazaar to be a strong candidate to replace Hafley if he wins and then leaves. Serving as Associate Head Coach could be intended to prepare Aazaar (rather than Lukabu) to take over in a year or two. Unfortunately I'd be stunned if Fr. Leahy and his minions would pick a Black Muslim for this high-profile spot. Too bad.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Sun Sep 11, 2022 12:36 pm

Scott Frost is available.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:48 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:Scott Frost is available.

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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby innocentbystander on Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:16 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:Scott Frost is available.


at this moment, I'll take him
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby OCs_Inner_Eagle on Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:31 pm

I could see Hafley taking a settlement to jump if he foresees next season to be horrible as well. With the Portal and NIL the death spiral gets going more quickly. If he leaves after this one he could go to the NFL as a DB coach or to an SEC program as DC, either being an avenue to rebuild his reputation. As we all know BC's cheap enough to keep him just to avoid paying off his contract, so he can't just wait to be fired without risking a bunch more losses. It may be one of the few times that cheapness would help us.

Of course the settlement would need to specify Hafley doesn't get to blast BC on the way out for lacking institutional support.

Regardless, after they knocked off a terrible but still FBS Buffalo team last night, I looked upBob Chesney's roster at Holy Cross. All he does is win, and he knows what it's like to work with low-resourced Catholic programs. The biggest concern of course is that he and most of his staff (except Rich Gunnell for one!) have never sniffed FBS. But looking through that roster, he seems to hit the same types of schools that I've been pleased to see Hafley targeting. Catholic powers, NJ, and big programs in OH, FL, & TX. Plus he's brought in recruits from New England schools as well. The question then is whether those relationships would carry over if Chesney did move up. He'd be targeting a different level of recruit, but I would think the history of engagement lessens the recruiting issues with the jump.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:05 pm

Hafley isn’t going anywhere. He has fallen victim to the same pitfalls of many coaches. He made a shit hire on the side of the ball he doesn’t know. If you hear his pressers, he’s tacitly throwing McNulty under the bus… he’ll be the fall guy and won’t finish the season in his current role. Doesn’t change the result of anything. Just shifts blame.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby hansen on Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:21 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:Hafley isn’t going anywhere. He has fallen victim to the same pitfalls of many coaches. He made a shit hire on the side of the ball he doesn’t know. If you hear his pressers, he’s tacitly throwing McNulty under the bus… he’ll be the fall guy and won’t finish the season in his current role. Doesn’t change the result of anything. Just shifts blame.


I think McNulty > Cignetti. Unfortunately, this years line is inexperienced and lacking talent compared to last year.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:23 am

https://www.bcheights.com/2022/09/11/fo ... s-in-fy21/
I assume this was before Hafley's agent faxed his resume around to get the extension. Should be noted that Cignetti was paid quite well... which means McNulty is probably making almost 7 figures for this mess.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby durkcal on Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:21 am

OCs_Inner_Eagle {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:some familiar names:

https://theathletic.com/3550552/2022/08 ... -carousel/

College football assistant coaches to watch this season: Bruce Feldman’s hot list

21. Justin Frye, Ohio State, associate head coach, O-line coach

The 38-year-old former Indiana offensive tackle was a graduate assistant under Urban Meyer at Florida before coaching with Ryan Day at both Temple and Boston College. He spent the past four seasons a right hand man to Chip Kelly at UCLA, where they’ve overhauled the program and put together a pretty nasty running attack. Last season, the Bruins led the Pac-12 in scoring and were No. 2 in total offense. Frye returns to the Big Ten and should improve the Buckeyes O-line and make OSU’s run game even more potent. This is a guy who will get snapped up to be someone’s head coach before too long in FBS football.

34. Aazaar Abdul-Rahim, Boston College, associate head coach, DB coach, passing game coordinator

The Eagles have made huge strides in their pass defense since Jeff Hafley took over and brought Abdul-Rahim to BC. In the year before they arrived, BC ranked No. 114 in passer rating allowed. They shot up to No. 28 in 2021. More impressively, they’ve gone from No. 124 in long pass plays allowed (20 yards plus) up to No. 2 in the country. Give a lot of credit to Abdul-Rahim for that. It’s part of why he drew interest from Power 5 programs for their DC vacancies, and don’t be surprised if there are a lot more offers this winter.


If it weren't for Fr. Leahy and others in BC administration, I'd expect Aazaar to be a strong candidate to replace Hafley if he wins and then leaves. Serving as Associate Head Coach could be intended to prepare Aazaar (rather than Lukabu) to take over in a year or two. Unfortunately I'd be stunned if Fr. Leahy and his minions would pick a Black Muslim for this high-profile spot. Too bad.


Justin Frye will make a very interesting hire for a MAC program this offseason. He's been around three different P5 programs. He's very recently been a coordinator.

Aazar is at least one more step away from being an interesting hire for anyone aside from FCS. He needs to be a Def Coord (again) for at least a year. Being a good recruiter is a terrible criteria for hiring a head coach, and Hafley is the most recent reminder of that. Aazar is probably more than just a good recruiter, but he needs at least one more stop with more decision making and accountability/track record to demonstrate that.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby durkcal on Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:46 am

If you look at the guys having success being hired from Coordinator to head coach, without head coaching experience, you see a consistent factor - decent tenure at the Coordinator position:

Narduzzi - 12 years as a DC
Fickell - 11 years as DC
Aranda - 10 years as DC
Whittingham - 10 years as DC
K Smart - 8 years as DC
Sitake - 7 years as DC

even some of the good Group of 5 hires had 4-8 years as Coordinators.

Venables will be interesting to watch as he has 22 years as a Coordinator! It makes sense. More time making some mistakes, having to deal with weak talent cycles, managing staff, etc....before you get to be responsible for the whole thing.

Obviously Hafley's one year as a Coordinator looks bad in hindsight right now. Lanning and Marcus Freeman also look a little short on Coordinator time with 3 and 6 years.

I for one think that Hafley will be with us for a while, and I think he has a good chance to have us excited again in 2024 and 2025. He's made some mistakes, and he's figuring it out. I think the balance of 2022 and most of 2023 are going to be pretty slim on victories. He probably needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat 6-6 miracle (ala Daz 2016) in 2023 to keep the job.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby claver2010 on Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:07 pm

chryst fired from wisconsin, apparently 67-26 isn't good enough
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:13 pm

Karl Dorrell also fired this weekend from Colorado. Which is interesting in a why-was-hired-in-the-first-place sorta way.
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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby DomingoOrtiz on Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:57 pm

claver2010 {l Wrote}:chryst fired from wisconsin, apparently 67-26 isn't good enough



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Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:43 am

The Chryst firing may have been more related to the new AD trying to get out from under the shadow of Barry Alvarez and using the dip in Chryst's fortunes over the past two seasons as an excuse to remove a coach he did not like coming in.

Karl Dorrell should never have been hired in the first place. His tenure at UCLA was pathetic--the year he "won" the PAC-12 Coach of the Year Award in 2005 after a smoke and mirrors 9=0 start, UCLA lost to a 3-8 Arizona team something in the neighborhood of 56-14 if I remember correctly and then lost eleventy billion to 7 against USC. The whole thing was a joke. His "Coach of the Year" award in 2020 was entirely the product of having games against Texas A&M, Oregon and Arizona State cancelled and squeaking out wins over a historically bad Arizona team, the worst Stanford team since Buddy Teens, a UCLA team that had half its roster opt out during the Covid year and a home win against SDSU. When they played Utah they were strangled to death in a game that was never close and then got destroyed by a Texas team that had just fired its coach in the Alamo Bowl.

Have to say I enjoyed G-Tech running all over Pitt and the biggest prick in college football, Pat Narduzzi. Will be interesting g to see if they can keep it up and get the interim HC, who is a G-Tech lifer, the real gig.

Lastly, this weekend demonstrated why Kansas State took a pass on K-State alumni, Brett Venables, not once, but twice when the HC position in Manhattan was open.
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