recruiting 2014 and beyond (h00ps weird0s beat off list)

[BConway]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

So you don't want Thompson, a top 200 recruit, either i guess?

[HJS]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

i'll also point out that one of our most successful teams of the last 30 years started with 4 guys that were playing together since their freshman year (and another guy that had a face you just wanted to peg with an iceball). so 4 freshman isn't necessarily a bad thing... as long as one of them is a mcdonalds all-american. seems like a pretty simple recipe to me

[BConway]

i'll also point out that one of our most successful teams of the last 30 years started with 4 guys that were playing together since their freshman year (and another guy that had a face you just wanted to peg with an iceball). so 4 freshman isn't necessarily a bad thing... as long as one of them is a mcdonalds all-american. seems like a pretty simple recipe to me

Thats my point. Build something from the ground up. Its not like we are bringing in 10 unranked freshman this year. Its 3 guys. One is a top 200, another wasnt recruited much probably due to football and the other is a long shot but he grew 4 inches in a year. But instead others want to load the team with useless grad transfers.

[eepstein0]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

How about the next VBJ, Mike Sagay, Avery Wilson or Gabe Moton? You’re way more likely to get them than you are the above guys.

[Corporal Funishment]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

How about the next VBJ, Mike Sagay, Avery Wilson or Gabe Moton? You’re way more likely to get them than you are the above guys.

Clearly, we should just stop recruiting altogether.

[HJS]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

How about the next VBJ, Mike Sagay, Avery Wilson or Gabe Moton? You’re way more likely to get them than you are the above guys.

My point is that anyone can play the false choice game (e.g. crappy players staying 4 years). There is an equally impossible chance that these guys will be Troy Bell/Craig Smith as it is that they will suck and refuse to leave for 4 years.

[BCEagles25]

Craig Smith, Jared Dudley and Sean Marshall had a grit about them that I am sure showed up on their high school tape. I do not necessarily see that being the case with these non-ranked guys we just signed. It’s hard to get a feel for Kanye Jone’s game from the tape I’ve seen. If a guy is unranked at this late stage when most have long since committed, it is not a fantastic sign. Even 247 doesn’t have a rating on him.

[eepstein0]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

How about the next VBJ, Mike Sagay, Avery Wilson or Gabe Moton? You’re way more likely to get them than you are the above guys.

My point is that anyone can play the false choice game (e.g. crappy players staying 4 years). There is an equally impossible chance that these guys will be Troy Bell/Craig Smith as it is that they will suck and refuse to leave for 4 years.

These guys play in GA and FL. Every ACC coach has seen them play. It’s not a great sign.

[eepstein0]

Kamari Williams in the transfer portal.

[claver2010]

maybe he'll find a weight room in the portal

[twballgame9]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

So you don't want Thompson, a top 200 recruit, either i guess?

Jesus Christ you are dense. No, the good recruits that weren't rushed in by a brand new coach at the end of a recruiting cycle where good recruits like Thompson are already signed are welcome to stay as long as they want. The grad transfer from C of C is welcome to stay as well.

[twballgame9]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

If Al Skinner in his 5th year was picking the players, this isn't a discussion. It's a new unknown coach grabbing freshman at the dregs end of a recruiting cycle.

[twballgame9]

i'll also point out that one of our most successful teams of the last 30 years started with 4 guys that were playing together since their freshman year (and another guy that had a face you just wanted to peg with an iceball). so 4 freshman isn't necessarily a bad thing... as long as one of them is a mcdonalds all-american. seems like a pretty simple recipe to me

Thats my point. Build something from the ground up. Its not like we are bringing in 10 unranked freshman this year. Its 3 guys. One is a top 200, another wasnt recruited much probably due to football and the other is a long shot but he grew 4 inches in a year. But instead others want to load the team with useless grad transfers.

The dregs of a recruiting cycle are not where you build. Start building next year, after you've recruited ACC players for more than a couple of hours.

This concept is not hard.

[Corporal Funishment]

It's gonna be real quiet on Electric Avenue at this rate. Running low on players. The front court could be a one-man Vander Baand.

[HJS]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

If Al Skinner in his 5th year was picking the players, this isn't a discussion. It's a new unknown coach grabbing freshman at the dregs end of a recruiting cycle.

https://apnews.com/article/7d90fb86b1a3 ... 8b5427816c
Al Skinner’s dregs with zero interest from other programs turned out to be Jon Beerbohm, Ken Harley, Javi Rodriguez and walk-on Dwayne Pina.

I have no illusions that any of these kids will ever see any meaningful time. But, if all you realistically have as an option is to take shots with late bloomers who fit your system, that’s what you do and hope that a couple can develop into role players when you don’t suck in 4 years.

[twballgame9]

Those are not good players. Harley was okay. Beerbohm contributed a little late. 2 of the 3 scholarship players stayed all 4 years and I don't even remember the 3rd. You prove my point.

Pina played because he was the only PG. If the new coach brings in walkons there is no complaint here.

[twballgame9]

Also that era was prior to the grad transfers rule and during an era where there weren't many transfers period. Al actually did need bodies that were freshmen.

[BConway]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

So you don't want Thompson, a top 200 recruit, either i guess?

Jesus Christ you are dense. No, the good recruits that weren't rushed in by a brand new coach at the end of a recruiting cycle where good recruits like Thompson are already signed are welcome to stay as long as they want. The grad transfer from C of C is welcome to stay as well.

I am dense but you said this about the 3 freshman "They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships." So you do want Gianni or no? You are all over the place. Try to stay consistent at least.

[twballgame9]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

So you don't want Thompson, a top 200 recruit, either i guess?

Jesus Christ you are dense. No, the good recruits that weren't rushed in by a brand new coach at the end of a recruiting cycle where good recruits like Thompson are already signed are welcome to stay as long as they want. The grad transfer from C of C is welcome to stay as well.

I am dense but you said this about the 3 freshman "They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships." So you do want Gianni or no? You are all over the place. Try to stay consistent at least.

This conversation has been and always will be about the recruiting of the new coach in the last few weeks at the tail end of a finished recruiting cycle. 2, 3 who the fuck cares, its BC basketball. It was never about Thompson, who you brought into it because you realized you didn't have a real good argument for filling 1/6 of the roster for the next few years with flyers he was recruiting at College of Charleston.

To be clear. Top 200 players, always good. Desperation last minute flyer C of Charleston recruits, whether they are three or two, not good.

For the record, he brought in three guys and when the conversation started I thought they were all freshmen. I've since said the grad transfer was a good one.

[HJS]

Those are not good players. Harley was okay. Beerbohm contributed a little late. 2 of the 3 scholarship players stayed all 4 years and I don't even remember the 3rd. You prove my point.

Pina played because he was the only PG. If the new coach brings in walkons there is no complaint here.

Beerbohm and Harley were very good players. Pretending they were wasted scholarships is stupid.

You didn’t know who Skinner grabbed when he arrived... that’s fine. Argue that Skinner, O’Shea, Coen and Cooley ultimately proved to be among the best evaluators in history and pulling Harley/Beerbohm from the leftover dregs was their first success. Argue that it’s impossible to believe that Grant and his-yet-to-be-hired assistants are unicorns with a similar Midas-touch.

For the record, every coach grabs bodies when they arrive. Don’s was Gabe Moton. Christian’s was Idrissa Diallo. Both were awful, but Diallo represented Christian’s best ranked recruit (Top 125). We all hoped that Diallo would be the start, but he turned out to be the apex (from a stars perspective).

[twballgame9]

He can bring in CAA players to fill out the roster if they aren't going to be here four years from now. Roster flexibility is more valuable to a new coach on a rebuild than the stupid concept of roster balance.

Roster balance is not a stupid concept at all but a very necessary part of recruiting. If we only had Thompson coming in as a freshman, JVB and Langford as sophmores and then older Langford as a Junior what would happen when all these grad transfers left? We would have to have a huge freshman class (which certainly would have shitty recruits, because we are BC) or again with the grad transfers. So fast forward another year and we have 7 sophmores who mostly cant play, the other 4 upper classman previously mentioned and no real roster flexibility.

These kids are worth a shot at least. Looks like the guard grew 3-4 inches from year and the other kid is raw but has some talent and athleticism.

Roster balance for the sake of roster balance is moronic. Play kids from the stands over kids on scholarship that play like they came out of the stands.

Again, why is our 22 class going to be better?

If it isn't going to be better, hire a better coach. Because signing a bunch of non ACC level players to keep the roster balance and to make sure you have bodies for the next 4 years is dumb. Much rather see short term solutions until he ramps up recruiting.

If you don't think a coach is going to recruit better with full year and full recruiting cycle than he would be desperately chucking scholarships around in late March after just getting hired, then you think your coach is a shitty recruiter and you dont hire him. I just assume he will identify better players recruiting for BC for a year than he would picking guys from his C of C centric recruiting over the course of two weeks. If thats wrong, don't bother with basketball anymore.

Hopefully everybody is a diamond in the rough.

So your solution this year is another year of picking up the Scott's, Karnik's and Adams of the world. I would rather he pick up these 2 developmental players. The big guy looks like he has a shot to develop and the other kid grew like 4 inches in a year. I would rather these 2 guys over 2 grads that will average 6 and 4

I'd rather not be saddled with 4 year developmental players in a rushed recruiting cycle. Period. At least take some time to look at ACC level recruits before falling back like this and locking up 2 scholarships.

I also originally said 2 - see above. But you knew we weren't talking about Thompson, red herring.

[twballgame9]

in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

This is where you changed it from 2 to 3 to set up your red herring. Nice work, I applaud your sophistry.

[twballgame9]

Those are not good players. Harley was okay. Beerbohm contributed a little late. 2 of the 3 scholarship players stayed all 4 years and I don't even remember the 3rd. You prove my point.

Pina played because he was the only PG. If the new coach brings in walkons there is no complaint here.

Beerbohm and Harley were very good players. Pretending they were wasted scholarships is stupid.

You didn’t know who Skinner grabbed when he arrived... that’s fine. Argue that Skinner, O’Shea, Coen and Cooley ultimately proved to be among the best evaluators in history and pulling Harley/Beerbohm from the leftover dregs was their first success. Argue that it’s impossible to believe that Grant and his-yet-to-be-hired assistants are unicorns with a similar Midas-touch.

For the record, every coach grabs bodies when they arrive. Don’s was Gabe Moton. Christian’s was Idrissa Diallo. Both were awful, but Diallo represented Christian’s best ranked recruit (Top 125). We all hoped that Diallo would be the start, but he turned out to be the apex (from a stars perspective).

Revisionist history on Beerbohm. He was a novelty because he dunked real well and then hit a few threes as a senior. Harley was a decent player.


You overrated Al's dregs. Don and Christian aren't real bright lights to be compared to and their dregs prove the point.

[twballgame9]

Also, Al Skinner and staff may be the single greatest identifiers of diamond in the rough talent. Setting expectations by that standard, regardless of how much you overstate the success of his last minute first class, is an unreasonable standard. That Al's staff had a great eye for talent and still only pulled those 4 guys furthers the point.

But he had to take bodies then, transfers were usually JUCOs with academic issues or problem players back then and there were no play right away grad transfers. It's apples and oranges.

[BC923]

Not going to get worried about 2 freshman fliers. If they suck they will leave eventually or become 11th and 12th man. That being said, more interested in the forward. He played at a high level this past season, and you could hope that the reason he was under recruited was uncertainty about which sport he’d play. Not concerned if he doesn’t pan out though.

[twballgame9]

Well I think this conversation has given the BC basketball program far more attention than it deserves. One of the 5 of you that attends games let me know if these two show any promise. Back to football.

[Corporal Funishment]

Those are not good players. Harley was okay. Beerbohm contributed a little late. 2 of the 3 scholarship players stayed all 4 years and I don't even remember the 3rd. You prove my point.

Pina played because he was the only PG. If the new coach brings in walkons there is no complaint here.

Beerbohm and Harley were very good players. Pretending they were wasted scholarships is stupid.

You didn’t know who Skinner grabbed when he arrived... that’s fine. Argue that Skinner, O’Shea, Coen and Cooley ultimately proved to be among the best evaluators in history and pulling Harley/Beerbohm from the leftover dregs was their first success. Argue that it’s impossible to believe that Grant and his-yet-to-be-hired assistants are unicorns with a similar Midas-touch.

For the record, every coach grabs bodies when they arrive. Don’s was Gabe Moton. Christian’s was Idrissa Diallo. Both were awful, but Diallo represented Christian’s best ranked recruit (Top 125). We all hoped that Diallo would be the start, but he turned out to be the apex (from a stars perspective).

Hamilton and Langford????
Come on, meatballs.

[HJS]

Texas Tech’s roster just entered the portal. We ain’t landing any of them. But, the kid who transferred from VCU (Silva) is originally from Taunton.
https://wreckemred.com/2021/04/02/texas ... er-portal/

[BConway]

Felder to Florida ugh. Its obviously not surprising but would have been nice to keep at least a small core of him and the Langford brothers.