BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

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BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby durkcal on Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:09 am

Under the idea that you never waste a crisis, I think that BC should eliminate the Baseball program. Then when the economy recovers in say two years, add Men's Lacrosse. My view is that BC will never be a national powerhouse in Baseball. It's largely a sport that is popular in the South and Southwest. It's obviously a painful decision. And with the legacy of Pete Frates, for some it would be too much to bear. But it is 100% grounded in reality. The Men's soccer program, for example, has proven it can be more competitive nationally, and soccer doesn't have the regional bias that baseball has.

Adding Men's Lacrosse in say two years is where this pays off. I believe that BC would be a national power within five years. Lacrosse has a regional bias into the Northeast. We could establish our natural triumvirate - Football, Hockey and Lacrosse. There, I said it. I know most that post will hate the idea. But it makes all the sense in the world. New economic realities are coming towards Higher Ed fast. And BC has always had a stretch to afford all that Title IX requires of a private school with an FBS football program. This is the correct 40 year decision.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby DuchesneEast on Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:17 am

durkcal wrote:Under the idea that you never waste a crisis, I think that BC should eliminate the Baseball program. Then when the economy recovers in say two years, add Men's Lacrosse. My view is that BC will never be a national powerhouse in Baseball. It's largely a sport that is popular in the South and Southwest. It's obviously a painful decision. And with the legacy of Pete Frates, for some it would be too much to bear. But it is 100% grounded in reality. The Men's soccer program, for example, has proven it can be more competitive nationally, and soccer doesn't have the regional bias that baseball has.

Adding Men's Lacrosse in say two years is where this pays off. I believe that BC would be a national power within five years. Lacrosse has a regional bias into the Northeast. We could establish our natural triumvirate - Football, Hockey and Lacrosse. There, I said it. I know most that post will hate the idea. But it makes all the sense in the world. New economic realities are coming towards Higher Ed fast. And BC has always had a stretch to afford all that Title IX requires of a private school with an FBS football program. This is the correct 40 year decision.



I am not a LAX fan but I have to agree, we could dominate the sport.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:40 pm

Pretty sure ACC teams have to field certain sports. Adding Lax is still dumb, they'll get smoked worse in that.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:41 pm

And the idea BC is competing with ACC teams in lax is hilarious. Good OOC win for Albany though.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby hansen on Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:05 pm

DuchesneEast wrote:
durkcal wrote:Under the idea that you never waste a crisis, I think that BC should eliminate the Baseball program. Then when the economy recovers in say two years, add Men's Lacrosse. My view is that BC will never be a national powerhouse in Baseball. It's largely a sport that is popular in the South and Southwest. It's obviously a painful decision. And with the legacy of Pete Frates, for some it would be too much to bear. But it is 100% grounded in reality. The Men's soccer program, for example, has proven it can be more competitive nationally, and soccer doesn't have the regional bias that baseball has.

Adding Men's Lacrosse in say two years is where this pays off. I believe that BC would be a national power within five years. Lacrosse has a regional bias into the Northeast. We could establish our natural triumvirate - Football, Hockey and Lacrosse. There, I said it. I know most that post will hate the idea. But it makes all the sense in the world. New economic realities are coming towards Higher Ed fast. And BC has always had a stretch to afford all that Title IX requires of a private school with an FBS football program. This is the correct 40 year decision.



I am not a LAX fan but I have to agree, we could dominate the sport.


Are you suggesting we have a lot of douchebags at the school?
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby Los on Fri May 01, 2020 7:40 am

They just invested several million dollars into opening the new Harrington baseball field and are on the verge of finishing Phase II of the baseball facility. They’re not dropping baseball.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Fri May 01, 2020 9:27 am

There is no reason to drop baseball with all of the recent investments, but the notion that a fully funded lacrosse program wouldn’t be a powerhouse within five years is equally stupid. Yes, I recognize that the last time we had a men’s lax program we sucked, but we also gave zero scholarships and it was essentially a club sport with the exception that the players got access to the varsity weight room, got to enter the varsity entrance for football and basketball games, and they got a little bit of decent swag. As a consequence, the roster consisted of kids who had no offers from anywhere, but were willing to endure the practices and getting crushed by Harvard, Brown, Yale and UMASS in exchange for a resume enhancer.

If we are giving scholarships like Duke, Syracuse, ND, UNC, etc. the dynamic completely changes. Fucking Marquette made the NCAA tournament a year ago after starting a varsity program four years ago. Are any of you retarded enough to think we can’t perform at a level significantly higher than Marquette? You don’t think we could be as good as Georgetown? Really? You don’t think we would be an attractive option and could build strong connections at Catholic schools in DC, Baltimore, Long Island or Central/Western New York to supplement the talent sitting in our backyard?

Sure, first two or three years we will get dick stomped as we bring kids in, but my guess is that by year four, when we have a full roster we will hold our own. Might not win many ACC titles, but if you are an ACC team with a couple of conference wins, a couple of good out of conference wins and a slightly above .500 record and you are making the tournament. Now, it will take hiring a good coach, but lacrosse coaches are ridiculously cheap and money should not be a barrier. Dave Petramula is available. Maybe a year of rest for him and then a year of him getting the infrastructure of the program built and he is recharged and ready to go.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby DomingoOrtiz on Fri May 01, 2020 9:56 am

Is the breakdown of scholarships per sport available anywhere?
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby claver2010 on Fri May 01, 2020 10:55 am

we need to cut programs, not add them until we can appropriately fund the sports that matter
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Fri May 01, 2020 10:56 am

I agree BC is not dropping baseball because of the investments but I stand corrected its not one of the required sports.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Fri May 01, 2020 11:07 am

claver2010 wrote:we need to cut programs, not add them until we can appropriately fund the sports that matter


Okay. See you later Men’s X country, fencing and men’s track and field. Throw in Swimming as well, although I don’t think the men get scholarships anyway and we probably need the women for Title 9 reasons. Football, Soccer, Basketball, Hockey, Baseball, Lacrosse for men’s sports. Football and to a lesser degree basketball fund everything but hockey, which I understand is self-sustaining and generates a small profit. If the lacrosse team gets good, they can become net sustaining—Notre Dame, Duke, UVA and UNC have break even programs from what I am told, and Syracuse actually makes money (an admitted outlier in the sport due to the number of paying fans they get at the Dome). Take baseball and soccer as loss leaders and move on.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby hansen on Fri May 01, 2020 11:18 am

Dick Rosenthal wrote:
claver2010 wrote:we need to cut programs, not add them until we can appropriately fund the sports that matter


Okay. See you later Men’s X country, fencing and men’s track and field. Throw in Swimming as well, although I don’t think the men get scholarships anyway and we probably need the women for Title 9 reasons. Football, Soccer, Basketball, Hockey, Baseball, Lacrosse for men’s sports. Football and to a lesser degree basketball fund everything but hockey, which I understand is self-sustaining and generates a small profit. If the lacrosse team gets good, they can become net sustaining—Notre Dame, Duke, UVA and UNC have break even programs from what I am told, and Syracuse actually makes money (an admitted outlier in the sport due to the number of paying fans they get at the Dome). Take baseball and soccer as loss leaders and move on.


as I've said a million times before, BC will never cut sports and if we do, the additional money saved won't go to the major programs... the money will be used for the other university's needs. That's jsut a fact of how BC is run and I don't see it changing any time in the near future. Also, Dick is correct there are zero scholarships for men's XC, track and field, and presumably men's fencing as well. in fact, I don't think there are any men's scholarships other than football, basketball, hockey, and baseball (not sure if they fully fund it now or not). the only reason men's lax was cut was due to a Title IX lawsuit targeting BC which correctly showed that the number of men's participants was significantly greater than number of women's participants (due to football). I don't think this changes unless women's quidditch or some other sport emerges that compensates for the discrepancy.

p.s. personally, I share the opinion that fielding a lot of sports gives us a competitive advantage in attracting top students. since top students means my degree will be more valuable, I am 100% in favor of it.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby durkcal on Mon May 04, 2020 10:33 am

twballgame9 wrote:Pretty sure ACC teams have to field certain sports. Adding Lax is still dumb, they'll get smoked worse in that.


1) Math. There are 299 Division 1 baseball teams. There are 75 Division 1 lacrosse teams. It will be easier to be competitive in lacrosse. Have you seen some of the schools that can be ranked in lacrosse? 2) Geography - the players are in our own backyard relative to baseball. Massachusetts is a powerhouse in lacrosse. New York and DMV area are closer to our recruiting base. Of the top 25 HS programs in Lacrosse acc to US Lacrosse Magazine, 24 of them are within 440 miles of our school. We're actually closer to more of the HS players than Duke and UNC btw. The hotbeds for baseball talent are in the South and West. The same analysis for top baseball programs in the country, Zero HS's within 440 miles. Closest might be Tenneesse, LOL. 3) Lacrosse doesn't have a professional league. Baseball players have to think of their professional potential. The BC degree will be worth relatively more to a greater number of the recruited athletes for lacrosse. 4) If you haven't noticed, lacrosse is growing. This is the 40 year decision. 5) We could still play baseball. Just do it without scholarships, and outside the ACC. 6) The motto is Ever too Excel. There is no credible argument that we would compete nationally more consistently in baseball relative to lacrosse long term. We can argue about how easily the success would come. But on a 30 to 40 year basis, there is no credible argument that we can compete more strongly in baseball relative to lacrosse. If you believe that, you just don't know where the players are coming from on a HS level for these sports.

BC will be looking aggressively to cut costs right now. I'm giving them a suggestion. Bank those savings for a few years. Then, when things are flush, and hopefully football is bringing in the $$$(Hafley?), add lacrosse. I don't know if that is 2022, 2023....2028. It makes way too much sense. Painful to cut baseball. But we were never winning anything in that anyway.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Mon May 04, 2020 12:36 pm

durkcal wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Pretty sure ACC teams have to field certain sports. Adding Lax is still dumb, they'll get smoked worse in that.


1) Math. There are 299 Division 1 baseball teams. There are 75 Division 1 lacrosse teams. It will be easier to be competitive in lacrosse. Have you seen some of the schools that can be ranked in lacrosse? 2) Geography - the players are in our own backyard relative to baseball. Massachusetts is a powerhouse in lacrosse. New York and DMV area are closer to our recruiting base. Of the top 25 HS programs in Lacrosse acc to US Lacrosse Magazine, 24 of them are within 440 miles of our school. We're actually closer to more of the HS players than Duke and UNC btw. The hotbeds for baseball talent are in the South and West. The same analysis for top baseball programs in the country, Zero HS's within 440 miles. Closest might be Tenneesse, LOL. 3) Lacrosse doesn't have a professional league. Baseball players have to think of their professional potential. The BC degree will be worth relatively more to a greater number of the recruited athletes for lacrosse. 4) If you haven't noticed, lacrosse is growing. This is the 40 year decision. 5) We could still play baseball. Just do it without scholarships, and outside the ACC. 6) The motto is Ever too Excel. There is no credible argument that we would compete nationally more consistently in baseball relative to lacrosse long term. We can argue about how easily the success would come. But on a 30 to 40 year basis, there is no credible argument that we can compete more strongly in baseball relative to lacrosse. If you believe that, you just don't know where the players are coming from on a HS level for these sports.

BC will be looking aggressively to cut costs right now. I'm giving them a suggestion. Bank those savings for a few years. Then, when things are flush, and hopefully football is bringing in the $$$(Hafley?), add lacrosse. I don't know if that is 2022, 2023....2028. It makes way too much sense. Painful to cut baseball. But we were never winning anything in that anyway.



I know where lacrosse players come from. I went to Albany. You terribly overrate MA HS lax.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby hansen on Mon May 04, 2020 1:24 pm

twballgame9 wrote:
durkcal wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Pretty sure ACC teams have to field certain sports. Adding Lax is still dumb, they'll get smoked worse in that.


1) Math. There are 299 Division 1 baseball teams. There are 75 Division 1 lacrosse teams. It will be easier to be competitive in lacrosse. Have you seen some of the schools that can be ranked in lacrosse? 2) Geography - the players are in our own backyard relative to baseball. Massachusetts is a powerhouse in lacrosse. New York and DMV area are closer to our recruiting base. Of the top 25 HS programs in Lacrosse acc to US Lacrosse Magazine, 24 of them are within 440 miles of our school. We're actually closer to more of the HS players than Duke and UNC btw. The hotbeds for baseball talent are in the South and West. The same analysis for top baseball programs in the country, Zero HS's within 440 miles. Closest might be Tenneesse, LOL. 3) Lacrosse doesn't have a professional league. Baseball players have to think of their professional potential. The BC degree will be worth relatively more to a greater number of the recruited athletes for lacrosse. 4) If you haven't noticed, lacrosse is growing. This is the 40 year decision. 5) We could still play baseball. Just do it without scholarships, and outside the ACC. 6) The motto is Ever too Excel. There is no credible argument that we would compete nationally more consistently in baseball relative to lacrosse long term. We can argue about how easily the success would come. But on a 30 to 40 year basis, there is no credible argument that we can compete more strongly in baseball relative to lacrosse. If you believe that, you just don't know where the players are coming from on a HS level for these sports.

BC will be looking aggressively to cut costs right now. I'm giving them a suggestion. Bank those savings for a few years. Then, when things are flush, and hopefully football is bringing in the $$$(Hafley?), add lacrosse. I don't know if that is 2022, 2023....2028. It makes way too much sense. Painful to cut baseball. But we were never winning anything in that anyway.



I know where lacrosse players come from. I went to Albany. You terribly overrate MA HS lax.


What’s worse... MA football or MA lax?
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Mon May 04, 2020 2:27 pm

hansen wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
durkcal wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Pretty sure ACC teams have to field certain sports. Adding Lax is still dumb, they'll get smoked worse in that.


1) Math. There are 299 Division 1 baseball teams. There are 75 Division 1 lacrosse teams. It will be easier to be competitive in lacrosse. Have you seen some of the schools that can be ranked in lacrosse? 2) Geography - the players are in our own backyard relative to baseball. Massachusetts is a powerhouse in lacrosse. New York and DMV area are closer to our recruiting base. Of the top 25 HS programs in Lacrosse acc to US Lacrosse Magazine, 24 of them are within 440 miles of our school. We're actually closer to more of the HS players than Duke and UNC btw. The hotbeds for baseball talent are in the South and West. The same analysis for top baseball programs in the country, Zero HS's within 440 miles. Closest might be Tenneesse, LOL. 3) Lacrosse doesn't have a professional league. Baseball players have to think of their professional potential. The BC degree will be worth relatively more to a greater number of the recruited athletes for lacrosse. 4) If you haven't noticed, lacrosse is growing. This is the 40 year decision. 5) We could still play baseball. Just do it without scholarships, and outside the ACC. 6) The motto is Ever too Excel. There is no credible argument that we would compete nationally more consistently in baseball relative to lacrosse long term. We can argue about how easily the success would come. But on a 30 to 40 year basis, there is no credible argument that we can compete more strongly in baseball relative to lacrosse. If you believe that, you just don't know where the players are coming from on a HS level for these sports.

BC will be looking aggressively to cut costs right now. I'm giving them a suggestion. Bank those savings for a few years. Then, when things are flush, and hopefully football is bringing in the $$$(Hafley?), add lacrosse. I don't know if that is 2022, 2023....2028. It makes way too much sense. Painful to cut baseball. But we were never winning anything in that anyway.



I know where lacrosse players come from. I went to Albany. You terribly overrate MA HS lax.


What’s worse... MA football or MA lax?


Football. MA lax isn't "bad" it's just not some hotbed like DMV, Strong Island or Upstate NY and Canada. MA football is brutally terrible.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Wed May 06, 2020 4:41 pm

Ok, but are you saying that a fully funded Men’s lacrosse team at BC would have any trouble attracting talent from Central/Western NY, Strong Island or Bawlmore? We’d likely get smoked the first couple of years with a roster full of underclass men, but by year 4 my guess is we are fine. We may not win the ACC, but winning a couple of conference games, winning a couple of high end out of conference games and finishing a game above .500 overall earns a ticket to the dance out of the ACC. Hell, Marquette made the tournament five years after starting a program in a conference with Georgetown and Denver and pretty good programs at Nova and Providence. You really think we couldn’t out perform Marquette or Providence or Nova for that matter or do as well as Georgetown? College Lax coaches make less then Jerry York and assistance make peanuts. Even a cheap as Athletic Department like ours could afford Dave Petramulla with the change Martin would find in his couch cushions.

It is an easy equation, pluck some kids out of the Catholic Schools in the DMV (Gonzaga, Georgetown Prep, MSJ’s, etc., a couple kids out of Chaminade or St. A’s on Strong Island. Sniff around STAQ and CBA in Central/Western NY. And try and build a pipeline for the best of the best at home. Supplement with some occasional randos from Philly, Jersey or Toughchester. If you have a good coach, it isn’t hard. Plus, and in contrast to every sport we play save hockey, in Lax we are near the top of the food chain with facilities—assuming we are playing in Alumni.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Wed May 06, 2020 8:48 pm

Dick Rosenthal wrote:Ok, but are you saying that a fully funded Men’s lacrosse team at BC would have any trouble attracting talent from Central/Western NY, Strong Island or Bawlmore?


Yes. Those places already feed schools BC is not beating out for talent, like all of the rest of the ACC - Duke, UVa, ND, Cuse, UNC - it's 5 or 6 of the best programs in the country and Cuse is down. Plus, the Ivy League has been balls out good last 8-10 years, so the appeal of BC loses some luster.

It's not happening, so it doesn't matter, but when 6 of the top 12 teams in the country are the other 6 teams in the conference that play lax, it's not a bold statement to say they'll struggle to ever be competitive.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Thu May 07, 2020 12:05 am

twballgame9 wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:Ok, but are you saying that a fully funded Men’s lacrosse team at BC would have any trouble attracting talent from Central/Western NY, Strong Island or Bawlmore?


Yes. Those places already feed schools BC is not beating out for talent, like all of the rest of the ACC - Duke, UVa, ND, Cuse, UNC - it's 5 or 6 of the best programs in the country and Cuse is down. Plus, the Ivy League has been balls out good last 8-10 years, so the appeal of BC loses some luster.

It's not happening, so it doesn't matter, but when 6 of the top 12 teams in the country are the other 6 teams in the conference that play lax, it's not a bold statement to say they'll struggle to ever be competitive.


Sorry, if SUNY Albany can turn itself into a national power with third world facilities and being located in one of the least desirable locales in North America, I doubt a fully funded lax program at BC would have much trouble getting enough talent to compete. And as I said, they may never win an ACC Title, but they don’t have to as the formula for the NCAAs out of the ACC is two conference wins, a win or two against someone from the Big East, Big Ten or Ivy League, and getting above .500 by running train on the CAA and MAAC, etc.

And while all of those schools do feed into a variety of existing powers, the nature of the way college lacrosse is growing, I doubt the coaches at those programs will be reluctant to turn down overtures from a program that has a potential profile like BC.

I guess I am surprised to find out that you are a Tobias O’Jortsian “We are what we are” type.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Thu May 07, 2020 12:28 am

Dick Rosenthal wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:Ok, but are you saying that a fully funded Men’s lacrosse team at BC would have any trouble attracting talent from Central/Western NY, Strong Island or Bawlmore?


Yes. Those places already feed schools BC is not beating out for talent, like all of the rest of the ACC - Duke, UVa, ND, Cuse, UNC - it's 5 or 6 of the best programs in the country and Cuse is down. Plus, the Ivy League has been balls out good last 8-10 years, so the appeal of BC loses some luster.

It's not happening, so it doesn't matter, but when 6 of the top 12 teams in the country are the other 6 teams in the conference that play lax, it's not a bold statement to say they'll struggle to ever be competitive.


Sorry, if SUNY Albany can turn itself into a national power with third world facilities and being located in one of the least desirable locales in North America, I doubt a fully funded lax program at BC would have much trouble getting enough talent to compete. And as I said, they may never win an ACC Title, but they don’t have to as the formula for the NCAAs out of the ACC is two conference wins, a win or two against someone from the Big East, Big Ten or Ivy League, and getting above .500 by running train on the CAA and MAAC, etc.

And while all of those schools do feed into a variety of existing powers, the nature of the way college lacrosse is growing, I doubt the coaches at those programs will be reluctant to turn down overtures from a program that has a potential profile like BC.

I guess I am surprised to find out that you are a Tobias O’Jortsian “We are what we are” type.


Suny Albany landed the Michael Jordan of lacrosse because admissions standards and Cuse slow played him. They also play a Loyola Marymount two way middie fast break style of lacrosse that is exciting to young scorers and is a welcome break from the plodding style of ND and Denver and the ACC southern teams that is killing college lax. Albany can also get kids in that don't get scholarships because it costs nothing to go there. And while in a shitty location, it has had 18000 kids from strong island and western NY on campus every year for the better part of 4 decades. And Albany feasts on a terrible conference, allowing it to play 2 to 3 games it can gear up for against powerhouses to build a seeding resume instead of running the gauntlet of ACC play. They're basically Gonzaga, a unicorn.

BC would struggle to get those 2 conference wins for a long time. Last in the ACC is 10th in the country.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Thu May 07, 2020 11:09 pm

twballgame9 wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:Ok, but are you saying that a fully funded Men’s lacrosse team at BC would have any trouble attracting talent from Central/Western NY, Strong Island or Bawlmore?


Yes. Those places already feed schools BC is not beating out for talent, like all of the rest of the ACC - Duke, UVa, ND, Cuse, UNC - it's 5 or 6 of the best programs in the country and Cuse is down. Plus, the Ivy League has been balls out good last 8-10 years, so the appeal of BC loses some luster.

It's not happening, so it doesn't matter, but when 6 of the top 12 teams in the country are the other 6 teams in the conference that play lax, it's not a bold statement to say they'll struggle to ever be competitive.


Sorry, if SUNY Albany can turn itself into a national power with third world facilities and being located in one of the least desirable locales in North America, I doubt a fully funded lax program at BC would have much trouble getting enough talent to compete. And as I said, they may never win an ACC Title, but they don’t have to as the formula for the NCAAs out of the ACC is two conference wins, a win or two against someone from the Big East, Big Ten or Ivy League, and getting above .500 by running train on the CAA and MAAC, etc.

And while all of those schools do feed into a variety of existing powers, the nature of the way college lacrosse is growing, I doubt the coaches at those programs will be reluctant to turn down overtures from a program that has a potential profile like BC.

I guess I am surprised to find out that you are a Tobias O’Jortsian “We are what we are” type.


Suny Albany landed the Michael Jordan of lacrosse because admissions standards and Cuse slow played him. They also play a Loyola Marymount two way middie fast break style of lacrosse that is exciting to young scorers and is a welcome break from the plodding style of ND and Denver and the ACC southern teams that is killing college lax. Albany can also get kids in that don't get scholarships because it costs nothing to go there. And while in a shitty location, it has had 18000 kids from strong island and western NY on campus every year for the better part of 4 decades. And Albany feasts on a terrible conference, allowing it to play 2 to 3 games it can gear up for against powerhouses to build a seeding resume instead of running the gauntlet of ACC play. They're basically Gonzaga, a unicorn.

BC would struggle to get those 2 conference wins for a long time. Last in the ACC is 10th in the country.


Maybe. What if BC lands Dave Petramulla as a coach or someone of that caliber? As noted before, lax is the one sport where even our Athletic Department could look at the absolute top salaries and say “hmm, so we can break even with this program and build a brand for the cost of our LB coach? Okay, sounds good.” Point is, as Denver proved, if you are willing to pay $300K you can have anyone you want and the talent will follow. Because it is publicly reported, we know Don Starsia here at UVA, a great coach and phenomenal recruiter makes $150K in base salary and an additional $100K in incentive payments. He also probably makes an extra $50K off of camps and appearances. We know there are Wall Street types a decade ago who were willing to give Greasy Gene $12 million seed money for the program because Gene admitted as much and a few of us knew the guys making the offer. If that is still out there as an offer—and while I can’t say I speak much to one of the potential donors, I know he has not gotten any poorer since then—then that is enough cash handled by a semi competent investment advisor to throw off enough money to pay a $350 K salary and fund half of the 12.6 scholarship max for men’s lax. Shit, I’d be willing to donate substantially for that sort of a bold move and I live by the rule that you don’t ever give a school shit unless you need to buy your kid in with a donation or on a far lesser scale you want the best tickets to football games and a platform to complain to the AD when the team sucks.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Thu May 07, 2020 11:34 pm

Dick Rosenthal wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:Ok, but are you saying that a fully funded Men’s lacrosse team at BC would have any trouble attracting talent from Central/Western NY, Strong Island or Bawlmore?


Yes. Those places already feed schools BC is not beating out for talent, like all of the rest of the ACC - Duke, UVa, ND, Cuse, UNC - it's 5 or 6 of the best programs in the country and Cuse is down. Plus, the Ivy League has been balls out good last 8-10 years, so the appeal of BC loses some luster.

It's not happening, so it doesn't matter, but when 6 of the top 12 teams in the country are the other 6 teams in the conference that play lax, it's not a bold statement to say they'll struggle to ever be competitive.


Sorry, if SUNY Albany can turn itself into a national power with third world facilities and being located in one of the least desirable locales in North America, I doubt a fully funded lax program at BC would have much trouble getting enough talent to compete. And as I said, they may never win an ACC Title, but they don’t have to as the formula for the NCAAs out of the ACC is two conference wins, a win or two against someone from the Big East, Big Ten or Ivy League, and getting above .500 by running train on the CAA and MAAC, etc.

And while all of those schools do feed into a variety of existing powers, the nature of the way college lacrosse is growing, I doubt the coaches at those programs will be reluctant to turn down overtures from a program that has a potential profile like BC.

I guess I am surprised to find out that you are a Tobias O’Jortsian “We are what we are” type.


Suny Albany landed the Michael Jordan of lacrosse because admissions standards and Cuse slow played him. They also play a Loyola Marymount two way middie fast break style of lacrosse that is exciting to young scorers and is a welcome break from the plodding style of ND and Denver and the ACC southern teams that is killing college lax. Albany can also get kids in that don't get scholarships because it costs nothing to go there. And while in a shitty location, it has had 18000 kids from strong island and western NY on campus every year for the better part of 4 decades. And Albany feasts on a terrible conference, allowing it to play 2 to 3 games it can gear up for against powerhouses to build a seeding resume instead of running the gauntlet of ACC play. They're basically Gonzaga, a unicorn.

BC would struggle to get those 2 conference wins for a long time. Last in the ACC is 10th in the country.


Maybe. What if BC lands Dave Petramulla as a coach or someone of that caliber? As noted before, lax is the one sport where even our Athletic Department could look at the absolute top salaries and say “hmm, so we can break even with this program and build a brand for the cost of our LB coach? Okay, sounds good.” Point is, as Denver proved, if you are willing to pay $300K you can have anyone you want and the talent will follow. Because it is publicly reported, we know Don Starsia here at UVA, a great coach and phenomenal recruiter makes $150K in base salary and an additional $100K in incentive payments. He also probably makes an extra $50K off of camps and appearances. We know there are Wall Street types a decade ago who were willing to give Greasy Gene $12 million seed money for the program because Gene admitted as much and a few of us knew the guys making the offer. If that is still out there as an offer—and while I can’t say I speak much to one of the potential donors, I know he has not gotten any poorer since then—then that is enough cash handled by a semi competent investment advisor to throw off enough money to pay a $350 K salary and fund half of the 12.6 scholarship max for men’s lax. Shit, I’d be willing to donate substantially for that sort of a bold move and I live by the rule that you don’t ever give a school shit unless you need to buy your kid in with a donation or on a far lesser scale you want the best tickets to football games and a platform to complain to the AD when the team sucks.


But did Denver prove anything? They had one FOGO guy. Albany had that too, he's now at yale.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Thu May 07, 2020 11:36 pm

Name's Trevor Baptiste by the way. The Albany guy was better, but that was a sick FOGO showdown.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Fri May 08, 2020 12:17 am

Denver won their national championship before FOGO was really a thing or Trevor Baptiste was on campus. They won because Bill Tierney got paid, showed up in Denver and built a championship caliber team within 4 years and won it all in his 6th year, all for the princely sum of $300K.

Also not in the video that Baptiste wins his record setting face off against Marquette, who seemed from the score to have played perennial power Denver very close (Marquette would make the tournament last year).I’m pretty sure we can be a lot better than Marquette.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby BCMurt09 on Fri May 08, 2020 10:57 am

I always forget that we have a Ski Team which is probably a good indication it could be axed.

As Claver said, we should probably not add any sports until we can properly fund and support the ones we had.

Axe Skiing, Fencing, Swimming, Golf, and probably Tennis too (though Tennis has some of the best :skank on campus)

Men's Rowing was invited to the Eastern Sprints League (SEC of collegiate rowing) years ago but couldn't make the move because we weren't funded.

I tend to agree with Dick that we could probably put together a team that is making it to the NCAAT in short order. Actually being competitive in the ACC and winning ACCTs is a different story.

Time it so that that next generation of Stanwick's are coming to BC and we're all set
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby twballgame9 on Fri May 08, 2020 11:56 am

I don't understand the difference between competing in the ACC and winning the ACC in lacrosse. If you aren't capable of winning the ACC in lax, you won't win a single game. Every single team in the conference is a national title contender most seasons. It's basically a conference with the lax versions of Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Auburn and Florida football where the rest of the SEC doesn't field a team. There are no Wake Forests and NCSUs to get BC to 4-4 in lacrosse.
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Re: BC Athletics Cuts in Response to Pandemic Revenue Shortfalls

Postby BCMurt09 on Fri May 08, 2020 12:41 pm

twballgame9 wrote:I don't understand the difference between competing in the ACC and winning the ACC in lacrosse. If you aren't capable of winning the ACC in lax, you won't win a single game. Every single team in the conference is a national title contender most seasons. It's basically a conference with the lax versions of Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Auburn and Florida football where the rest of the SEC doesn't field a team. There are no Wake Forests and NCSUs to get BC to 4-4 in lacrosse.


They could do it if they took an Arizona State hockey approach. Playing a hybrid schedule (club and varsity) at first and phasing in. ASU played a hybrid schedule in 2015-16 and last year made the tournament playing an independent schedule.
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