PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:Not to mention we don't have a staff--we know Day and Heater will be the coordinators unless Heater gets the Temple head job, but none of the other assistants have been CONFIRMED and the rumored names we've heard (Rogers, retaining Devine/Siravo) are far from impressive--and despite being told that Addazio is TEH BEST RECRUITER EVAR he's hardly made a splash on the recruiting trail. Right now he's scrambling around trying to hold on to the class, most of the guys with other D1 offers are looking around including guys who remained solid through Spaz's firing (presumably because they assumed the new hire wouldn't be a complete dud), we don't really have any new prospects other than Woulard and a couple RBs.
Also the fact that we aren't poachign at least a few of Temple's recruits worries me, especially since a few had BC offers from Spaz--if Addazio is such a great recruiter he should've been able to get at least a couple ACC-caliber guys to come to Temple. The fact that (according to Rowland) we aren't after any of those guys means that either he's not the great recruiter we heard so much about, or he's refusing to touch them out of loyalty to his former employer. The latter absolutely reeks of Spaz refusing to go after PSU transfers this past spring and of Tobias refusing to recruit the entire state of Virginia his first 2-3 years at BC.
PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:The BE was also a lot weaker this year with WVU gone than it was in 2011.
pick6pedro {l Wrote}:If Daz really is Spaz 2.0, then his bio in the 2013 media guide will read "In 2012 Addazio navigated Temple's transition to the Big East. Despite being selected to finish last in the conference and losing a North End-plate-of-macaroni-sized amount of players to graduation and injury, Coach guided the Owls to a formidable 7th place finish."
DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:pick6pedro {l Wrote}:If Daz really is Spaz 2.0, then his bio in the 2013 media guide will read "In 2012 Addazio navigated Temple's transition to the Big East. Despite being selected to finish last in the conference and losing a North End-plate-of-macaroni-sized amount of players to graduation and injury, Coach guided the Owls to a formidable 7th place finish."
"But something funny happened on the way to the basement..."
hinghameagle {l Wrote}:wrapping my head around a few of the topics in this thread, here are my thoughts.
hinghameagle {l Wrote}:wrapping my head around a few of the topics in this thread, here are my thoughts.
1.My biggest concern over this hire, was that Dazz was a known entity. He was not an under the radar guy, like the Colorado Mines coach. He was a head coach, so people know of him. In light of this, as best we can tell, with multiple job openings this year, it seems that Dazz never even would have had a sniff at any of the openings aside from BC. This guy has a resume, a body of work that was open to everybody and NOBODY WANTED HIM. I raised this same point the day spaz was hired. Spaz was patrolling an annual top 25 defense and occasionally a top 10 defense that was always among the lead leaders in turnovers. He was in a big conference, and never once did his name come up for a job before he got the BC gig. He was passed over when Jags got it, so what made him qualified 3 years later. You never even saw his name came up in Ivy league openings. My concern was Daz was that I believe he was one more 4-7 year at Temple from having head coached his last game anywhere. He wasnt getting a head job anywhere again at his age coming off back to back 4-7 years at Temple, but somehow he landed a 6 year deal to rebuild a program. If he was coming in to take over a coach who retired after a 7-5 season or who left for another job, I still wouldnt have hired him, but I could see the theory where you give him a 4 year contract to be the caretaker of a program while watching a Ryan Day, or soemone else in another program to see if that person was the long term answer.
pick6pedro {l Wrote}:ATLeagle {l Wrote}:pick6pedro {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:(compared to who we could've had)
I'm still waiting for any inkling of an indication that we could have landed all the candidates that have been drooled over, as it appears far from the given that you present it to be. Par for the course.
Mullen, BOB and Golden did not want the job but many of the other names kicked around here did. Addazio may be the right choice, but don't buy into the BS that no one but him wanted the job.
I'm definitely not buying into it. I'm also definitely not buying into HJS' typical crap either. 9903 sums up what I was getting at.
Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:pick6pedro {l Wrote}:ATLeagle {l Wrote}:pick6pedro {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:(compared to who we could've had)
I'm still waiting for any inkling of an indication that we could have landed all the candidates that have been drooled over, as it appears far from the given that you present it to be. Par for the course.
Mullen, BOB and Golden did not want the job but many of the other names kicked around here did. Addazio may be the right choice, but don't buy into the BS that no one but him wanted the job.
I'm definitely not buying into it. I'm also definitely not buying into HJS' typical crap either. 9903 sums up what I was getting at.
Come on Pedro, ESPN did a blurb on NFL Countdown the Sunday before BC hired Daz about several NFL assistants interested in the BC job.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9896&start=1830
Other than that and what ATL and/or West can say, no one can give you definitive proof. I have to believe that some of the guys we were drooling over were most definitely interested in the job. I have heard from many people involved in college and pro football that BC is an attractive gig. I am not sure if you are just messing with HJS, if you are, then disregard this.
hinghameagle {l Wrote}:I dont really care about generating buzz with the BC hire. Yes they need an infusion of energy within the program, but that is not what sells. Winning sells. A coach who screams and excites doesnt win games. The kids may go flying out of the tunnell, but the on the first play when they get smacked in the face, or outrun to the edge becuase they are not fast enough or have the play the 10 yard cushion because they are not trusted, or cant rush the passer because they are not quick or strong enough, then all the energy goes away, the rah rah speech in the locker room is a distant memory.
BC needs a coach who can recruit, coach up kids, and delegate to his assistants. BC needed to do a better job of looking at a coach's on field performance before they hired Dazz. It is like the NFL or NBA combine. these guys not it out of the park at the workout, or interview, even though their own field results didnt match. Most of these guys dont last. Dazz is an exciteable guy, he has so much enthusiasm that he probably just overwhelmed Bates, whereas Diaco, if rumors are to be true, came across poorly in the interview and lost the job. Stronger consideration should have been given to Dazz's most recent on field performance 4-7, as against Diaco's, taking a non top 25 at the start of the year to the championship game primarily on the back of his defense (and some lucky calls). Personality doesnt count for shit, winning does.
Imagine if Bates knew nothing about Bill beilcheck, and interviewed him for the BC job. He would probably have Belicheck, taken out in a straight jacket and committed. Mumbling, short answers, too technical on the football side. Yes, Belicheck is a huge outlier, but my point is the process was mishandled, and I unfortunately think the end result will show that.
hinghameagle {l Wrote}:Imagine if Bates knew nothing about Bill beilcheck, and interviewed him for the BC job. He would probably have Belicheck, taken out in a straight jacket and committed. Mumbling, short answers, too technical on the football side. Yes, Belicheck is a huge outlier, but my point is the process was mishandled, and I unfortunately think the end result will show that.
NorthEndEagle {l Wrote}:cat hair pee fire
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:The greasy one would have known to CYA and drop the addazio name (he just wouldn't have interviewed many other people).
PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:eagle9903 {l Wrote}:The greasy one would have known to CYA and drop the addazio name (he just wouldn't have interviewed many other people).
Fixed.
I mostly agree with what you're saying, although I don't think he should be given a pass on 4-7. I realize there are mitigating circumstances behind his record at Temple this year, and I'm not saying I would've been calling for his head if I was a Temple fan, but I do expect better for BC. Rewarding 4-7 with a promotion to a BCS job is like rewarding Spaz with a 5-year extension after year 2 when, while the wheels weren't completely off the bus yet (at least in terms of on-field results), the program was pretty clearly not headed in the right direction.
Another issue, which you allude to.....there are literally 15-20 realistic names (including 2-3 huge stretches, like BOB and Mullen, but none so unrealistic that they weren't even worth inquiring about) most of us would've rather seen get the job than Addazio. Many of whom have since gotten other BCS jobs, some at similar or lesser salaries than what BC is paying Addazio. And a guy who was in the top 2-3 on nearly everyone's list might end up with the HC job at the school we freaking got Addazio from.
Bottom line--Alabama-Notre Dame is probably going to be the most-watched football game in history, at least in the US (might not match the Super Bowl numbers overseas), and certainly the most-watched college football game ever. Anyone watching that game will hear every 5 minutes about how ND's rebirth has come on the back of their defense. And, if we'd made the right hire, those comments would've been immediately followed up with a mention of how this will be Diaco's last game at ND as he is leaving to take the head job at Boston College. If you think Diaco couldn't have gotten the players to run his system at BC based on that kind of publicity, you're out of your goddamn mind.
PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:I was talking out my ass a little bit but this year's championship game will draw a lot better than last year's.
b0mberMan {l Wrote}:hinghameagle {l Wrote}:Imagine if Bates knew nothing about Bill beilcheck, and interviewed him for the BC job. He would probably have Belicheck, taken out in a straight jacket and committed. Mumbling, short answers, too technical on the football side. Yes, Belicheck is a huge outlier, but my point is the process was mishandled, and I unfortunately think the end result will show that.
Separate of anything, but I think that people confuse Belicheck's disdain for having to talk to the media with his complete personality. He must do something we don't see to instill the type of loyalty he gets out of players. My guess is BB would be just fine interviewing for a job somewhere.
MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:b0mberMan {l Wrote}:hinghameagle {l Wrote}:Imagine if Bates knew nothing about Bill beilcheck, and interviewed him for the BC job. He would probably have Belicheck, taken out in a straight jacket and committed. Mumbling, short answers, too technical on the football side. Yes, Belicheck is a huge outlier, but my point is the process was mishandled, and I unfortunately think the end result will show that.
Separate of anything, but I think that people confuse Belicheck's disdain for having to talk to the media with his complete personality. He must do something we don't see to instill the type of loyalty he gets out of players. My guess is BB would be just fine interviewing for a job somewhere.
I agree with this. And also, I wouldn't describe Nick Saban (a Belichick disciple) as a rah-rah and the recruits are dying to play for him. Same with Urban Meyer. Recruits aren't dumb, they want a guy who will coach them up and get them prepared for the NFL. Belichick would be an excellent coach at any level. Certainly better than Herm Edwards.
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:b0mberMan {l Wrote}:hinghameagle {l Wrote}:Imagine if Bates knew nothing about Bill beilcheck, and interviewed him for the BC job. He would probably have Belicheck, taken out in a straight jacket and committed. Mumbling, short answers, too technical on the football side. Yes, Belicheck is a huge outlier, but my point is the process was mishandled, and I unfortunately think the end result will show that.
Separate of anything, but I think that people confuse Belicheck's disdain for having to talk to the media with his complete personality. He must do something we don't see to instill the type of loyalty he gets out of players. My guess is BB would be just fine interviewing for a job somewhere.
I agree with this. And also, I wouldn't describe Nick Saban (a Belichick disciple) as a rah-rah and the recruits are dying to play for him. Same with Urban Meyer. Recruits aren't dumb, they want a guy who will coach them up and get them prepared for the NFL. Belichick would be an excellent coach at any level. Certainly better than Herm Edwards.
Except Cleveland.
MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:b0mberMan {l Wrote}:hinghameagle {l Wrote}:Imagine if Bates knew nothing about Bill beilcheck, and interviewed him for the BC job. He would probably have Belicheck, taken out in a straight jacket and committed. Mumbling, short answers, too technical on the football side. Yes, Belicheck is a huge outlier, but my point is the process was mishandled, and I unfortunately think the end result will show that.
Separate of anything, but I think that people confuse Belicheck's disdain for having to talk to the media with his complete personality. He must do something we don't see to instill the type of loyalty he gets out of players. My guess is BB would be just fine interviewing for a job somewhere.
I agree with this. And also, I wouldn't describe Nick Saban (a Belichick disciple) as a rah-rah and the recruits are dying to play for him. Same with Urban Meyer. Recruits aren't dumb, they want a guy who will coach them up and get them prepared for the NFL. Belichick would be an excellent coach at any level. Certainly better than Herm Edwards.
Except Cleveland.
He took Cleveland to the playoffs one year and beat Parcells, I believe. Who were his QBs in Cleveland? Was it still Bernie Kosar? That didn't help.
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:eagle9903 {l Wrote}:The greasy one would have known to CYA and drop the addazio name (he just wouldn't have interviewed many other people).
Fixed.
I mostly agree with what you're saying, although I don't think he should be given a pass on 4-7. I realize there are mitigating circumstances behind his record at Temple this year, and I'm not saying I would've been calling for his head if I was a Temple fan, but I do expect better for BC. Rewarding 4-7 with a promotion to a BCS job is like rewarding Spaz with a 5-year extension after year 2 when, while the wheels weren't completely off the bus yet (at least in terms of on-field results), the program was pretty clearly not headed in the right direction.
Another issue, which you allude to.....there are literally 15-20 realistic names (including 2-3 huge stretches, like BOB and Mullen, but none so unrealistic that they weren't even worth inquiring about) most of us would've rather seen get the job than Addazio. Many of whom have since gotten other BCS jobs, some at similar or lesser salaries than what BC is paying Addazio. And a guy who was in the top 2-3 on nearly everyone's list might end up with the HC job at the school we freaking got Addazio from.
Bottom line--Alabama-Notre Dame is probably going to be the most-watched football game in history, at least in the US (might not match the Super Bowl numbers overseas), and certainly the most-watched college football game ever. Anyone watching that game will hear every 5 minutes about how ND's rebirth has come on the back of their defense. And, if we'd made the right hire, those comments would've been immediately followed up with a mention of how this will be Diaco's last game at ND as he is leaving to take the head job at Boston College. If you think Diaco couldn't have gotten the players to run his system at BC based on that kind of publicity, you're out of your goddamn mind.
That game won't come remotely close to one of the most watched of all time.
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/2012-most-watched-sports/
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:Again, I don't like the hire, but Addazio's 4-7 shouldn't be the reason we don't like him and while enthusiasm is as you say a secondary concern, the BB comparison is less valid as there is some intrinsic value to enthusiasm in the college game when the talent base is achieved through convincing high school kids its a good idea to play at BC.
The process mishandled thing is interesting. I agree that the optics were awful and Bates - whose twitter musings are fucking unbearable by the way "so proud of the [name non-revenue] team for doing [non-sports related activity]" - and staff completely blew the information control game. This is unquestionable. This is where hiring the 4-7 coach at Temple whose name hasn't even been mentioned once when everyone thinks you are stealing a coach from the U or PSU or grabbing a Harbaugh protege or ND's DC is unforgiveable. It is terrible expectation management. This is true even if Bates thought he was getting Golden or Diaco up to the 24th hour. The greasy one would have known to CYA and drop the addazio name (he just wouldn't have interviewed many other people). I should note I'm not talking about us so much as I am the more casual fans who don't care enough to even consider looking beyond their expectation being Golden/Diaco and their reality being a 4-7 Temple coach.
If my treatment of 4-7 is confusing, I apologize but I don't think it is inconsistent. I intend to express that 4-7 in one year at Temple does not provide a ton of evidence that Addazio is a bad on the field coach, but 4-7 at Temple in light of expectations of flash does matter in terms of fanbase expectations.
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:b0mberMan {l Wrote}:hinghameagle {l Wrote}:Imagine if Bates knew nothing about Bill beilcheck, and interviewed him for the BC job. He would probably have Belicheck, taken out in a straight jacket and committed. Mumbling, short answers, too technical on the football side. Yes, Belicheck is a huge outlier, but my point is the process was mishandled, and I unfortunately think the end result will show that.
Separate of anything, but I think that people confuse Belicheck's disdain for having to talk to the media with his complete personality. He must do something we don't see to instill the type of loyalty he gets out of players. My guess is BB would be just fine interviewing for a job somewhere.
I agree with this. And also, I wouldn't describe Nick Saban (a Belichick disciple) as a rah-rah and the recruits are dying to play for him. Same with Urban Meyer. Recruits aren't dumb, they want a guy who will coach them up and get them prepared for the NFL. Belichick would be an excellent coach at any level. Certainly better than Herm Edwards.
Except Cleveland.
He took Cleveland to the playoffs one year and beat Parcells, I believe. Who were his QBs in Cleveland? Was it still Bernie Kosar? That didn't help.
I was being sarcastic. I have no issues with Bill Belichick, obviously. That said, there are distinct differences between what makes a good college coach and what makes a good pro coach. One of those is the difference between CEO and head cheerleader. And actually, Saban is a lot more "rah-rah" than his old boss, but yes, he is an example of a guy that succeeds in college with an NFL mentality. The flip side is Brian Kelly, who is clearly a screamer and fire up the troops guy.
The Knife of Asia {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:b0mberMan {l Wrote}:hinghameagle {l Wrote}:Imagine if Bates knew nothing about Bill beilcheck, and interviewed him for the BC job. He would probably have Belicheck, taken out in a straight jacket and committed. Mumbling, short answers, too technical on the football side. Yes, Belicheck is a huge outlier, but my point is the process was mishandled, and I unfortunately think the end result will show that.
Separate of anything, but I think that people confuse Belicheck's disdain for having to talk to the media with his complete personality. He must do something we don't see to instill the type of loyalty he gets out of players. My guess is BB would be just fine interviewing for a job somewhere.
I agree with this. And also, I wouldn't describe Nick Saban (a Belichick disciple) as a rah-rah and the recruits are dying to play for him. Same with Urban Meyer. Recruits aren't dumb, they want a guy who will coach them up and get them prepared for the NFL. Belichick would be an excellent coach at any level. Certainly better than Herm Edwards.
Except Cleveland.
He took Cleveland to the playoffs one year and beat Parcells, I believe. Who were his QBs in Cleveland? Was it still Bernie Kosar? That didn't help.
I was being sarcastic. I have no issues with Bill Belichick, obviously. That said, there are distinct differences between what makes a good college coach and what makes a good pro coach. One of those is the difference between CEO and head cheerleader. And actually, Saban is a lot more "rah-rah" than his old boss, but yes, he is an example of a guy that succeeds in college with an NFL mentality. The flip side is Brian Kelly, who is clearly a screamer and fire up the troops guy.
It comes down primarily to recruiting... You think the SEC is top dog because kids get 'coached up' or because they get the best talent in the most fertile areas of the country.
Did Willie Green get 'coached up' or did they simply hand him the ball and let him go beast mode? How about Raji? Coached up, or just an awesome talent they let run amok on the interior line?
All the coaching in the world isn't going to turn Dudek into Willie Green... sorry.
Cam Newton? Carmelo Anthony? You lock down a difference making stud and you get a chance to do some great things.
MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:b0mberMan {l Wrote}:hinghameagle {l Wrote}:Imagine if Bates knew nothing about Bill beilcheck, and interviewed him for the BC job. He would probably have Belicheck, taken out in a straight jacket and committed. Mumbling, short answers, too technical on the football side. Yes, Belicheck is a huge outlier, but my point is the process was mishandled, and I unfortunately think the end result will show that.
Separate of anything, but I think that people confuse Belicheck's disdain for having to talk to the media with his complete personality. He must do something we don't see to instill the type of loyalty he gets out of players. My guess is BB would be just fine interviewing for a job somewhere.
I agree with this. And also, I wouldn't describe Nick Saban (a Belichick disciple) as a rah-rah and the recruits are dying to play for him. Same with Urban Meyer. Recruits aren't dumb, they want a guy who will coach them up and get them prepared for the NFL. Belichick would be an excellent coach at any level. Certainly better than Herm Edwards.
Except Cleveland.
He took Cleveland to the playoffs one year and beat Parcells, I believe. Who were his QBs in Cleveland? Was it still Bernie Kosar? That didn't help.
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