Commits/Recruiting

[Shaddix]

That pretty well exhausts the possibilities for 2012; hopefully, they'll concentrate now on 2013, because we badly need to do well in that class.

Yea, I mean Smyth is a "jersey kid" and Willard did play him while he was at Iona. Can't say I'm surprised.

If we can land Dingba in 2013, I would be ecstatic. I don't like how the Don puts effort into recruiting guys, then gives up on them towards the end of the recruitment....like learn to compete against other high majors for recruits dude. I have a strong feeling that he is going to be wasting his time with BJ Johnson

This is not true. He only stops recruiting them if the recruit tells the BC staff that he is no longer interested or if there are some serious academic hurdles that would prevent the player's ability to enroll. There are several targets that he recruited hard to the end but unfortunately chose different schools. The Don's problem isn't effort, he recruits players hard and I love it (he also did quite well with transfers into 2010 with Humphrey and Taylor who were both sought after by relatively large programs). Instead, Donahue doesn't have connections like several recruiters at the big schools have and nobody on BC's staff has much experience at all with recruiting. This is the problem, not effort. Donahue works his ass off, unfortunately it takes more than that to recruit well. I agree though, he needs to find a way to start landing some big names (though recruiting hasn't been all that bad, just not particularly good for an ACC program). I would also be ecstatic if he landed Dingba.

I also feel confident enough with our current Roster and the 2012 players coming in that we are going to make some noise in a couple of years which will ultimately help recruiting.

I am going to ignore this round of Shaddix ridiculousness, and just comment on this. I think it is right. It is the contacts that he needs to develop at this level, and that is what Jones provided. That said, if he works hard enough for long enough and can be successful enough to stay in the job, the contacts will come with time and effort. Basketball recruiting is an inbred society of HS and AAU coaches, and once you are in, you are in until you screw one of them over.

Ignoring evidence once again. If you read the article, you would have read that he actually has many contacts. He had 3 contacts in Europe to ask about Heckmann.

Great. Contacts on other continents locking up mediocre players. Sort of like how Spaz has built a wall around Canada and Germany (well other than the one good player from Germany that went to FSU).

The Don is still developing the contacts that actually matter. I am certain that he will. But Jones was a smart hire, because he was a substitute in the interim. Unfortunately, he is also a good coach that wasn't going to stay long.

So you think that the Don is wasting his time with contacts on another continent giving him insights on players that will not have as much competition when recruiting them?

It's a matter of selectivity; there are fewer possibilities in Europe (partly because they tend to turn pro earlier), so he has to be careful about how much time and energy he invests. On the other hand, there are real possibilities; I would mind him finding another Kostas Maglos (depending on how long he stayed around, which is more of an issue with European than with US players). There's even something like a pipeline from Europe developing; for example, US colleges have begun recruiting regularly from the Canarias Basketball Academy in the Canary Islands (which goes on an annual road trip to play US prep schools). The long-term trend in European recruiting is upward, I think, but at this point it's still a bit tricky, so recruiters have to be more careful about efficiency than in the US. It's certainly true, however, that Donahue's #1 priority is developing high-major recruiting connections in this country; with Jones gone, his Ivy League background has proven to be a real problem.

I really have no opinion on european recruiting either way, but his strategy is clearly to recruit players who aren't being highly recruited so if it works out for him, then it's good for me. He will need more wins to develop that pipeline in the US.

[twballgame9]

That pretty well exhausts the possibilities for 2012; hopefully, they'll concentrate now on 2013, because we badly need to do well in that class.

Yea, I mean Smyth is a "jersey kid" and Willard did play him while he was at Iona. Can't say I'm surprised.

If we can land Dingba in 2013, I would be ecstatic. I don't like how the Don puts effort into recruiting guys, then gives up on them towards the end of the recruitment....like learn to compete against other high majors for recruits dude. I have a strong feeling that he is going to be wasting his time with BJ Johnson

This is not true. He only stops recruiting them if the recruit tells the BC staff that he is no longer interested or if there are some serious academic hurdles that would prevent the player's ability to enroll. There are several targets that he recruited hard to the end but unfortunately chose different schools. The Don's problem isn't effort, he recruits players hard and I love it (he also did quite well with transfers into 2010 with Humphrey and Taylor who were both sought after by relatively large programs). Instead, Donahue doesn't have connections like several recruiters at the big schools have and nobody on BC's staff has much experience at all with recruiting. This is the problem, not effort. Donahue works his ass off, unfortunately it takes more than that to recruit well. I agree though, he needs to find a way to start landing some big names (though recruiting hasn't been all that bad, just not particularly good for an ACC program). I would also be ecstatic if he landed Dingba.

I also feel confident enough with our current Roster and the 2012 players coming in that we are going to make some noise in a couple of years which will ultimately help recruiting.

I am going to ignore this round of Shaddix ridiculousness, and just comment on this. I think it is right. It is the contacts that he needs to develop at this level, and that is what Jones provided. That said, if he works hard enough for long enough and can be successful enough to stay in the job, the contacts will come with time and effort. Basketball recruiting is an inbred society of HS and AAU coaches, and once you are in, you are in until you screw one of them over.

Ignoring evidence once again. If you read the article, you would have read that he actually has many contacts. He had 3 contacts in Europe to ask about Heckmann.

Great. Contacts on other continents locking up mediocre players. Sort of like how Spaz has built a wall around Canada and Germany (well other than the one good player from Germany that went to FSU).

The Don is still developing the contacts that actually matter. I am certain that he will. But Jones was a smart hire, because he was a substitute in the interim. Unfortunately, he is also a good coach that wasn't going to stay long.

So you think that the Don is wasting his time with contacts on another continent giving him insights on players that will not have as much competition when recruiting them?

Yes, given the current fruits of those labors. His time would be better spent applying that energy to the American AAU circuit.

[twballgame9]

It's certainly true, however, that Donahue's #1 priority is developing high-major recruiting connections in this country; with Jones gone, his Ivy League background has proven to be a real problem.

This. All of it.

[eepstein0]

It's certainly true, however, that Donahue's #1 priority is developing high-major recruiting connections in this country; with Jones gone, his Ivy League background has proven to be a real problem.

This. All of it.

Agreed 100%. Though I love the connection he's establishing at the Prep Schools.

[RedBaron67]

It's certainly true, however, that Donahue's #1 priority is developing high-major recruiting connections in this country; with Jones gone, his Ivy League background has proven to be a real problem.

This. All of it.

Agreed 100%. Though I love the connection he's establishing at the Prep Schools.

Donahue has made some progress with the prep schools (although more needs to be done), but breaking into the AAU system is the most necessary element in recruiting, because it's the engine that drives the national recruiting system. Some of the NCAA bigwigs appear to suffer from the delusion that college basketball can return to an era of archaic simplicity when schools rarely recruited outside their own region, but these days, any high-major school that aims at respectability must recruit nationally, and the AAU system provides indispensable order and efficiency for nationwide recruiting. The prep schools, on the other hand, might well become less important if the new NCAA rules actually go into effect and eliminate "reclassification" (which might also, conversely, spark a JC revival).

[twballgame9]

It's certainly true, however, that Donahue's #1 priority is developing high-major recruiting connections in this country; with Jones gone, his Ivy League background has proven to be a real problem.

This. All of it.

Agreed 100%. Though I love the connection he's establishing at the Prep Schools.

Donahue has made some progress with the prep schools (although more needs to be done), but breaking into the AAU system is the most necessary element in recruiting, because it's the engine that drives the national recruiting system. Some of the NCAA bigwigs appear to suffer from the delusion that college basketball can return to an era of archaic simplicity when schools rarely recruited outside their own region, but these days, any high-major school that aims at respectability must recruit nationally, and the AAU system provides indispensable order and efficiency for nationwide recruiting. The prep schools, on the other hand, might well become less important if the new NCAA rules actually go into effect and eliminate "reclassification" (which might also, conversely, spark a JC revival).

For the record, I hate being in full agreement with red baron and epstein. You guys know that I am an idiot that knows nothing about basketball, right?

[eagle9903]

I don't enjoy this argument anymore.

What We Know:
We know Jones has a reputation as a very good recruiter at Hofstra and Villanova (although so is Jay Wright himself) credited with Speedy Claxton and Norman Richardson at Hofstra and Randy Foye, Allan Ray, Curtis Sumpter, and Jason Fraser at Villanova to support such reputation;
We know Jones used to be an assistant coach at BC and now is not (from 4/10/10 to 6/22/11);
We know Jones was replaced for all intents and purposes with the recruiting coordinator from Niagra and no current BC assistant has BCS conference recruiting experience;
We know Steve Donahue used to coach in the Ivy League;
We know Ivy League recruiting is dissimilar to ACC recruiting in level of competition and scholarships;
We know BC hasn't fared well with local (and frankly any) AAU programs since JOB, Watson and Hailey excepted;
We know we had a terrible record last year;
We know that this recruiting class was never going to be as large as the last one;
We know that Fran Dunphy is a former Ivy League coach who has recruited adequately (note lack of stars) and has had success at a bigtime program;
We know Donahue favors a guard heavy and three point heavy system.
We know Joe Rahon (USC, Georgetown, Oregon) and Olivier Hanlan (Virginia Tech), both Rivals 3 stars are not on paper below the average BC recruit of the last 15 years;
We know we have a scholarship imbalance;
We know as of right now we only have ten scholarship players for next season, including Odio and Caudill who have not yet shown the ability to contribute significant minutes regularly, two incoming freshman who could go any number of ways, and a transfer who is generally agreed to not be an impact player.

Message Board Assumptions
We needed a PF or C in this class and did not get one;
We need more athletic players, notably slashers and shot blockers;
We have too many players with the same skillset and too many with the same limitations;
It was reasonable to expect consistent ACC competitive play from a team of which the top scorer, top rebounder, top assist guy and four of the top minutes guys were true freshman;

Conclusions based on or despite Facts and Message Board Assumptions
Joe Jones was responsible for 2011 recruiting positives;
Steve Donahue cannot recruit competitively due to his Ivy League background;
Recruiting is inadequate.

[eagle9903]

Donahue has made some progress with the prep schools (although more needs to be done), but breaking into the AAU system is the most necessary element in recruiting, because it's the engine that drives the national recruiting system. Some of the NCAA bigwigs appear to suffer from the delusion that college basketball can return to an era of archaic simplicity when schools rarely recruited outside their own region, but these days, any high-major school that aims at respectability must recruit nationally, and the AAU system provides indispensable order and efficiency for nationwide recruiting. The prep schools, on the other hand, might well become less important if the new NCAA rules actually go into effect and eliminate "reclassification" (which might also, conversely, spark a JC revival).

Can you tell me how you can state with authority that "Donahue has made some progress with the prep schools," how do you know something like that? It just seems like a really strange thing for you or any of us to know?

Several programs are successful without recruiting nationally, I don't believe we can be such a program, so I believe that point is not worth arguing about. I think it is worth pointing out that the strength of AAU programs relative to high school programs is not at the same level everywhere, nor are AAU programs so glaringly corrupt in all places. This plays into why I would agree that we need to recruit nationally because New England AAU seems about as bad as it gets.

[RedBaron67]

Donahue has made some progress with the prep schools (although more needs to be done), but breaking into the AAU system is the most necessary element in recruiting, because it's the engine that drives the national recruiting system. Some of the NCAA bigwigs appear to suffer from the delusion that college basketball can return to an era of archaic simplicity when schools rarely recruited outside their own region, but these days, any high-major school that aims at respectability must recruit nationally, and the AAU system provides indispensable order and efficiency for nationwide recruiting. The prep schools, on the other hand, might well become less important if the new NCAA rules actually go into effect and eliminate "reclassification" (which might also, conversely, spark a JC revival).

Can you tell me how you can state with authority that "Donahue has made some progress with the prep schools," how do you know something like that? It just seems like a really strange thing for you or any of us to know?

Several programs are successful without recruiting nationally, I don't believe we can be such a program, so I believe that point is not worth arguing about. I think it is worth pointing out that the strength of AAU programs relative to high school programs is not at the same level everywhere, nor are AAU programs so glaringly corrupt in all places. This plays into why I would agree that we need to recruit nationally because New England AAU seems about as bad as it gets.

Some progress with the prep schools = signing Clifford and Hanlan. If things work out well for them at BC, hopefully we can move up the recruiting food chain.

I concede that some successful programs emphasize state and regional recruiting, but the high majors among them are generally big state schools with a wide and deep pool of talent in their vicinity (e.g., Indiana); BC, as you suggest, is in a different situation.

Likewise, high school programs are relatively more significant in places where high school basketball is a more important part of local culture than it is in New England. Everyplace, however, AAU ball establishes a standard of order and efficiency for national recruiting that would be difficult to improve on or even equal. The corruption is there, of course, but I don't see how that can be avoided with so much money flowing through the whole American basketball system; I'm inclined to agree with those coaches who argue that removing the AAU from college recruiting would make things worse. The New England AAU scene certainly has its issues, but I'm not sure whether it's more corrupt or just more conspicuous than in other regions.

I should also point out that schools like BC particularly rely on the AAU system to assist recruiting. How do you think Donohue found all those Californians?

I admit I sometimes pontificate a bit, but I try to be reasonable, and it's fun, and what else is this website for? If someone argues with me, maybe I'll learn something new, which is even better.

Postscript 5/19

I may have been premature in citing Indiana. A few weeks ago they hired asst. coach Kenny Johnson from Towson State; Johnson was also formerly the AAU coach of Team Takeover, based in DC. Indiana just got a commitment from Stan Robinson, a 2013 top-100 guard on Team Takeover; they're also recruiting another 2013 blue chip on Team Takeover, 6'9" Beejay Anya. I think this illustrates that even for programs that work their local area hard, AAU connections dominate on the national scene (particularly because blue-chip prospects often choose their HS based on an AAU coach's recommendation).

[Shaddix]

VT offered Sam Singler today, they are a pretty active staff

[RedBaron67]

VT offered Sam Singler today, they are a pretty active staff

It's Singer, not Singler, and I don't think it took much effort for VT to figure out they should offer him, considering the way he's been blowing up in the last month (8 offers since April 16). It struck me as odd that Both BU and Northeastern have offered Singer; does anyone know if he has any connection to the Boston area?

[Shaddix]

VT offered Sam Singler today, they are a pretty active staff

It's Singer, not Singler, and I don't think it took much effort for VT to figure out they should offer him, considering the way he's been blowing up in the last month (8 offers since April 16). It struck me as odd that Both BU and Northeastern have offered Singer; does anyone know if he has any connection to the Boston area?

VT has also shown interest in Raekwon Harney and Davon Reed recently. They also added Adam Smith from UNC Wilmington. Very active.

[eepstein0]

VT offered Sam Singler today, they are a pretty active staff

It's Singer, not Singler, and I don't think it took much effort for VT to figure out they should offer him, considering the way he's been blowing up in the last month (8 offers since April 16). It struck me as odd that Both BU and Northeastern have offered Singer; does anyone know if he has any connection to the Boston area?

VT has also shown interest in Raekwon Harney and Davon Reed recently. They also added Adam Smith from UNC Wilmington. Very active.

I mean they need players. Singer is a pretty well-known commodity.

[bcmurph]

Bronson Kessinger, a 6-7 sophomore-to-be from Corydon Central, was one of the top players earlier this month at the Run-N-Slam in Fort Wayne and continued his solid play at the Adidas May Classic last weekend in Bloomington.

Kessinger, who took an unofficial visit to Indiana following the tournament, has also visited Purdue and Xavier. Boston College, Butler, Louisville and Michigan are showing interest early in his recruitment

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120518/SPORTS02/205180342/Basketball-recruiting-Tech-s-Trey-Lyles-play-Canada

[BCEaglesFan]

BC is out on Matt Thomas

[BCEaglesFan]

However, Alex Kline just told me on his forums:

The BC Staff is making a strong push at Matt Thomas, a 2013 SG from Wisconsin.

[RedBaron67]

Bronson Kessinger, a 6-7 sophomore-to-be from Corydon Central, was one of the top players earlier this month at the Run-N-Slam in Fort Wayne and continued his solid play at the Adidas May Classic last weekend in Bloomington.

Kessinger, who took an unofficial visit to Indiana following the tournament, has also visited Purdue and Xavier. Boston College, Butler, Louisville and Michigan are showing interest early in his recruitment

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120518/SPORTS02/205180342/Basketball-recruiting-Tech-s-Trey-Lyles-play-Canada

BC is out on Matt Thomas

Kessinger sounds very promising, but high-major prospects from Indiana are notoriously difficult to pry out of that part of the country, so I'm not very hopeful. Thomas continues BC's losing streak in Wisconsin -- could it be something in the cheese?

Postscript

But now we're getting mixed signals on Thomas; could this be a turning point?

[BCEaglesFan]

Bronson Kessinger, a 6-7 sophomore-to-be from Corydon Central, was one of the top players earlier this month at the Run-N-Slam in Fort Wayne and continued his solid play at the Adidas May Classic last weekend in Bloomington.

Kessinger, who took an unofficial visit to Indiana following the tournament, has also visited Purdue and Xavier. Boston College, Butler, Louisville and Michigan are showing interest early in his recruitment

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120518/SPORTS02/205180342/Basketball-recruiting-Tech-s-Trey-Lyles-play-Canada

BC is out on Matt Thomas

Kessinger sounds very promising, but high-major prospects from Indiana are notoriously difficult to pry out of that part of the country, so I'm not very hopeful. Thomas continues BC's losing streak in Wisconsin -- could it be something in the cheese?

Postscript

But now we're getting mixed signals on Thomas; could this be a turning point?

On his rivals profile it shows that his top 3 is UVA, Wisky and Iowa State, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[Shaddix]

Bronson Kessinger, a 6-7 sophomore-to-be from Corydon Central, was one of the top players earlier this month at the Run-N-Slam in Fort Wayne and continued his solid play at the Adidas May Classic last weekend in Bloomington.

Kessinger, who took an unofficial visit to Indiana following the tournament, has also visited Purdue and Xavier. Boston College, Butler, Louisville and Michigan are showing interest early in his recruitment

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120518/SPORTS02/205180342/Basketball-recruiting-Tech-s-Trey-Lyles-play-Canada

BC is out on Matt Thomas

Kessinger sounds very promising, but high-major prospects from Indiana are notoriously difficult to pry out of that part of the country, so I'm not very hopeful. Thomas continues BC's losing streak in Wisconsin -- could it be something in the cheese?

Postscript

But now we're getting mixed signals on Thomas; could this be a turning point?

On his rivals profile it shows that his top 3 is UVA, Wisky and Iowa State, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Losing recruits to Iowa State is frustrating, but they have a nice up and coming squad. I can't believe that kids actually want to go and play out in Iowa

[BCEaglesFan]

On Matt Thomas, a recent article said his recruiting is far from over and he's just listing his 3 favorites for now.

[BCEaglesFan]

London Perrantes article: http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p= ... 88109.html

I don't have a scout membership, so all I can see is:

"The opportunity to go to the East Coast - he's heard from Boston College, ..."

[eepstein0]

BC has offered Sinarius Thornwell, '13.

[RedBaron67]

BC is out on Matt Thomas

However, Alex Kline just told me on his forums:

The BC Staff is making a strong push at Matt Thomas, a 2013 SG from Wisconsin.

Bronson Kessinger, a 6-7 sophomore-to-be from Corydon Central, was one of the top players earlier this month at the Run-N-Slam in Fort Wayne and continued his solid play at the Adidas May Classic last weekend in Bloomington.

Kessinger, who took an unofficial visit to Indiana following the tournament, has also visited Purdue and Xavier. Boston College, Butler, Louisville and Michigan are showing interest early in his recruitment

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120518/SPORTS02/205180342/Basketball-recruiting-Tech-s-Trey-Lyles-play-Canada

BC is out on Matt Thomas

Kessinger sounds very promising, but high-major prospects from Indiana are notoriously difficult to pry out of that part of the country, so I'm not very hopeful. Thomas continues BC's losing streak in Wisconsin -- could it be something in the cheese?

Postscript

But now we're getting mixed signals on Thomas; could this be a turning point?

Bronson Kessinger, a 6-7 sophomore-to-be from Corydon Central, was one of the top players earlier this month at the Run-N-Slam in Fort Wayne and continued his solid play at the Adidas May Classic last weekend in Bloomington.

Kessinger, who took an unofficial visit to Indiana following the tournament, has also visited Purdue and Xavier. Boston College, Butler, Louisville and Michigan are showing interest early in his recruitment

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120518/SPORTS02/205180342/Basketball-recruiting-Tech-s-Trey-Lyles-play-Canada

BC is out on Matt Thomas

Kessinger sounds very promising, but high-major prospects from Indiana are notoriously difficult to pry out of that part of the country, so I'm not very hopeful. Thomas continues BC's losing streak in Wisconsin -- could it be something in the cheese?

Postscript

But now we're getting mixed signals on Thomas; could this be a turning point?

On his rivals profile it shows that his top 3 is UVA, Wisky and Iowa State, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Losing recruits to Iowa State is frustrating, but they have a nice up and coming squad. I can't believe that kids actually want to go and play out in Iowa

On Matt Thomas, a recent article said his recruiting is far from over and he's just listing his 3 favorites for now.

In Thomas' case, "out in Iowa" isn't very far; Ames is about as far from his home town as Bridgeport is from Boston (and even closer from a Midwestern perspective). With such mixed info, we'll just have to wait and see.

[RedBaron67]

London Perrantes article: http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p= ... 88109.html

I don't have a scout membership, so all I can see is:

"The opportunity to go to the East Coast - he's heard from Boston College, ..."

Perrantes (PG, 2013, ***, 6'0", 170, Crespi Carmelite HS, Encino, CA) is mostly being recruited by West Coast schools (including some Pac-12 schools), so at least BC has a certain distinctiveness.

[RedBaron67]

BC has offered Sinarius Thornwell, '13.

Sindarius (not Sinarius) Thornwell (SG, 6'5", 180 -- he's from South Carolina but going to Oak Hill) has at least a dozen other high-major offers, including more than half of the ACC. I'm glad to see Donahue taking a shot at him, but he may be too highly ranked (ESPN #47, Rivals #36, Scout #16) for BC to have much of a chance.

[BCEaglesFan]

Weird move by the BC coaches. According to Alex Kline, they just called him about three 2013 prospects: BJ Johnson (who they have offered), Deandre Bembry, and Austin Colbert.

[RedBaron67]

Weird move by the BC coaches. According to Alex Kline, they just called him about three 2013 prospects: BJ Johnson (who they have offered), Deandre Bembry, and Austin Colbert.

That's the first mention I've seen of Colbert in this forum in a long time; last year BC seemed to be interested in him, but I'm surprised to hear that they still are. His stock appears to have slipped a bit during his year at Hotchkiss; Georgetown, Pitt, Seton Hall, and Xavier have offered him, and other high-majors (apparently including BC) are taking a good look at him. Everyone agrees that Colbert has a ton of athletic ability; the questions seem to be about his aggressiveness.

Bembry is a 6'6" SF who's apparently bulked up from 165 to 195 in the last year or so; he plays for St. Patrick's in NJ (where Colbert played before Hotchkiss). He has a number of high-majors "interested," but no one seems to have offered him yet.

It is a bit different for coaches to be phoning Kline for info rather than the other way around. On the other hand, Kline is a pretty good information source (and he lives in NJ).

[claver2010]

You weird0s operate at odd hours

[eepstein0]

Weird move by the BC coaches. According to Alex Kline, they just called him about three 2013 prospects: BJ Johnson (who they have offered), Deandre Bembry, and Austin Colbert.

That's the first mention I've seen of Colbert in this forum in a long time; last year BC seemed to be interested in him, but I'm surprised to hear that they still are. His stock appears to have slipped a bit during his year at Hotchkiss; Georgetown, Pitt, Seton Hall, and Xavier have offered him, and other high-majors (apparently including BC) are taking a good look at him. Everyone agrees that Colbert has a ton of athletic ability; the questions seem to be about his aggressiveness.

Bembry is a 6'6" SF who's apparently bulked up from 165 to 195 in the last year or so; he plays for St. Patrick's in NJ (where Colbert played before Hotchkiss). He has a number of high-majors "interested," but no one seems to have offered him yet.

It is a bit different for coaches to be phoning Kline for info rather than the other way around. On the other hand, Kline is a pretty good information source (and he lives in NJ).

Any of these 3 would be fine. a 6'9" athlete like Colbert would help things out immensely.

[Shaddix]

You weird0s operate at odd hours

That's actually hilarious. 3-4 am