ESPN/television contract Question

[BCEaglesFan]

So Rutgers fan, let's see how your team has done compared to BC in history:
NC: 0 each
Heismans: BC 1, Rutgers 0
BCS Bowls: BC 2 (Plus 2 cotton bowls), Rutgers 0
Bowl games: BC 22, Rutgers 7
Final Record: BC 624–444–37 (99-54 since 2001), Rutgers 617–604–42 (59–56 since 2001)

Rutgers has always sucked.

[BCEaglesFan]

Another reason a plus one model would suck not just for the ACC in general but BC in particular:

The national title currently is decided by the top two ranked teams meeting in the BCS title game. A plus-one would pit the top two ranked teams after the bowls were played. The bowls would not pair the teams based on rankings but by their ability to sell tickets and draw television viewers.

[/quote]
It wouldn't change anything. BC didn't go to the Chick-Fil-A bowl, the automatic bowl for the ACC Championship Game loser, in 2008 because of poor viewers and attendance.

[bignick33]

So Rutgers fan, let's see how your team has done compared to BC in history:
NC: 0 each
Heismans: BC 1, Rutgers 0
BCS Bowls: BC 2 (Plus 2 cotton bowls), Rutgers 0
Bowl games: BC 22, Rutgers 7
Final Record: BC 624–444–37 (99-54 since 2001), Rutgers 617–604–42 (59–56 since 2001)

Rutgers has always sucked.

BC has never been to a BCS Bowl, but they did win a disputed national championship in 1940.

[Walsh601]

But industry sources told CBSSports.com they expect the Big East to get much less -- maybe as low as $50 million annually -- because of the loss of West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and TCU. And then there's the possibility the Big East could lose two more of its biggest names -- most likely Louisville, Connecticut or Rutgers -- if the Big 12 expands and the ACC has to replace two schools.

"ESPN has mitigated any potential programming loss, the Big East has lost value and by the time they negotiate their deal, about $8 billion will have been spent on other college football deals [since last spring]," a source said. "It's not the most ideal scenario, especially when there is other college football programming available of similar quality."

A $60 million deal per year (as speculated by CBSSports.com's sources, slightly better than their low end) would be worth $4 million each for the 10 full members; $3 million each to the four football-only members; and $1 million each to the eight non-football members.

If the Big East's deal is the lower amount, it certainly would stun based on recent projections from Boise State, San Diego State and Memphis officials.

Boise State and San Diego State officials have previously projected the Big East's media rights between $6 million and $10 million for each school. Those numbers would dwarf the $1.5 million each school received in the Mountain West, but if the Broncos and Aztecs only earn $4 million, is that worth flying cross country for football games and moving their Olympic sports to other leagues?

Memphis athletic director R.C. Johnson told a Memphis radio station his school could earn as much as $13 million annually from the media rights deal, when in reality it might only be half or a third of that amount.

The Big East has been optimistic it can cash in on the current flurry of gigantic media rights deals recently inked by the Pac-12, ACC and Big 12, but one industry source warns that "the bubble may have burst." In other words, the Big East might not necessarily hit the jackpot.

Another source also is not optimistic.

"All of the schools they added are coming from the Mountain West [$11.7 million annually] and Conference USA [$16 million annually], so how will they now suddenly be worth more in the Big East?" the source said. "Name me two or three Big East Conference games of national interest."

The Big East's best hopes are that ESPN and NBC/Comcast get in a bidding war to drive the price up. But industry sources said network executives wouldn't go beyond "the 60s [million dollars]."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/19145336/having-gambled-on-better-media-pot-big-east-facing-deal-of-its-lifetime

[HJS]

Clemson BOT seems to be asking for conferences to invite them to leave the ACC
http://www.tigernet.com/view/story.do?id=10631
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/8 ... son-Board/

While this could shut up historylesson for the moment, this could be our fate in the not too distance future.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... s-lifetime

Thanks Gene.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/n ... talk-stop#
4. Boston College football is cancelled because no one wants to see Boston College play again.

[eepstein0]

Clemson BOT seems to be asking for conferences to invite them to leave the ACC
http://www.tigernet.com/view/story.do?id=10631
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/8 ... son-Board/

While this could shut up historylesson for the moment, this could be our fate in the not too distance future.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... s-lifetime

Thanks Gene.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/n ... talk-stop#
4. Boston College football is cancelled because no one wants to see Boston College play again.

BC Football is unwatchable right now for almost everyone.

[historylesson]

So Rutgers fan, let's see how your team has done compared to BC in history:
NC: 0 each
Heismans: BC 1, Rutgers 0
BCS Bowls: BC 2 (Plus 2 cotton bowls), Rutgers 0
Bowl games: BC 22, Rutgers 7
Final Record: BC 624–444–37 (99-54 since 2001), Rutgers 617–604–42 (59–56 since 2001)

Rutgers has always sucked.

Match your historical records up to Army and Navy. Based on that, would you suggest that Army and Navy are currently better than BC?

And I'm the one that fails at logic.

[pick6pedro]

How far should the ACC go to appease any schools thinking of leaving? Don't get me wrong, I think the first approach from the league office needs to be to reach out and explain all the positives, the relationships, and if necessary, get into the litany of reasons why a move doesn't make sense for that particular member. But the next step would be to concede certain things. So how is it done?

Football revenue divided by some formula involving W%? Involving ratings of televised games? Keep the bowl money you get rather than divide it equally? All of the above? While I can see something based on objective numbers or factors, simply saying "FSU/Clemson gets X because they are teh awesome" would obviously be a joke and should never be considered. What else can be offered that isn't going to a) completely fracture the relationships involved, meaning it's probably only a temporary fix until another school gets fired up about perceived inequalities or b) open the door for all kinds of demands from a member with any type of leverage both now and in the future?

You don't negotiate with terrorists. Until you do.

So what's legitimately on the table?

[UnionvilleUConnFan]

It certainly does look like Clemson and FSU are on their way out the door. Maybe more, but I think it could stop there as the Big 12 will then sit tight waiting for ND. So should the ACC just stay at 12 or really give the nnBE the death blow by taking 2 of Louisville, UConn, Rutgers or even USF?

What say you?

[cvilleagle]

It certainly does look like Clemson and FSU are on their way out the door. Maybe more, but I think it could stop there as the Big 12 will then sit tight waiting for ND. So should the ACC just stay at 12 or really give the nnBE the death blow by taking 2 of Louisville, UConn, Rutgers or even USF?

What say you?

i would sit at 12. Giving the BE a "death blow" makes the inaccurate assumption that it's still alive.

[claver2010]

Easy, stay at 12.

No offense, but Yukon & Rutgres add no value football wise and would simply be another mouth to feed

[historylesson]

Easy, stay at 12.

No offense, but Yukon & Rutgres add no value football wise and would simply be another mouth to feed

And 2 more notches in the loss column for BC. You can admit being scared; I won't judge you.

[pick6pedro]

Easy, stay at 12.

No offense, but Yukon & Rutgres add no value football wise and would simply be another mouth to feed

If you're losing FSU and/or Miami, you've got to get back into the Florida market. USF and UCF have huge student bodies with the potential to keep some top local athletes who don't want to be flying out to Stillwater, Ames, and Lubbock every weekend.

I'm not sure you stay at 12. You've got to claw tooth and nail. Of course this assumes that the rest of the schools stick together, which I find unlikely as everyone will start looking out for #1 and move if they can.

[UnionvilleUConnFan]

It certainly does look like Clemson and FSU are on their way out the door. Maybe more, but I think it could stop there as the Big 12 will then sit tight waiting for ND. So should the ACC just stay at 12 or really give the nnBE the death blow by taking 2 of Louisville, UConn, Rutgers or even USF?

What say you?

i would sit at 12. Giving the BE a "death blow" makes the inaccurate assumption that it's still alive.

You've obviously never seen The Walking Dead.

[claver2010]

Easy, stay at 12.

No offense, but Yukon & Rutgres add no value football wise and would simply be another mouth to feed

If you're losing FSU and/or Miami, you've got to get back into the Florida market. USF and UCF have huge student bodies with the potential to keep some top local athletes who don't want to be flying out to Stillwater, Ames, and Lubbock every weekend.

I'm not sure you stay at 12. You've got to claw tooth and nail. Of course this assumes that the rest of the schools stick together, which I find unlikely as everyone will start looking out for #1 and move if they can.

This "market" talk is just as much as the NNNNBE fans were talking about when they said adding Houston & SD St captures the Texas & California market.

[HJS]

It certainly does look like Clemson and FSU are on their way out the door. Maybe more, but I think it could stop there as the Big 12 will then sit tight waiting for ND. So should the ACC just stay at 12 or really give the nnBE the death blow by taking 2 of Louisville, UConn, Rutgers or even USF?

What say you?

You stay at 12. I was against going to 14 in the first place. At the time, I said they one benefit is that you are still secure if you lose 2 teams. I never thought that a conference that just lost 5 teams to the B10, SEC and P12... and was thisclose to being pecked out of existence if the P12 voted for expansion... but whatevs. I personally believe that the ACC is in fine condition with the loss of FSU and Clemson. To SEC-like fanbases who greatly underperformed and who had terrible media markets and even worse academics. BC fans loved playing these schools because we got along well with their fans. But, viewing it coldly, the ACC deal with ESPN will likely go unchanged with that one move.

The real issue is whether the dominoes fall fast and you have no option to stay at 12. For instance, if the B12 is looking to expand, they may determine that they can maximize their money by also taking GT and Miami (I actually do not think that is true, but everyone is promising the moon and the ACC schools are scared enough to jump for security). The SEC is also eyeing the Carolina schools and VT. If they have a chance to grab any of them, they will. I think the B10 is just sitting back and won't do anything unless they see MD or UNC get an offer from the SEC. Even then, they may not do anything.

In a scenario where the ACC needs to expand, I would say my top two adds are Rutgers followed by Louisville with UConn third. If we needed to take anyone else, I would say USMA and USNA. I have zero interest in Cincy, USF, etc. So, in the absolute apocalyptic worse case scenario where the ACC loses SEVEN teams (FSU, CU, GT, MIA, UNC, VT, MD and UVA), I would regroup the remainders of the conference as follows: BC, Pitt, Cuse, Wake, Duke, NCS, RU, Louisville, UConn, USNA and USMA (though I understand most would take USF and Cincy over the acadamies). That would be a pretty terrible conference... let's all hope it doesn't come down to that.

[pick6pedro]

Easy, stay at 12.

No offense, but Yukon & Rutgres add no value football wise and would simply be another mouth to feed

If you're losing FSU and/or Miami, you've got to get back into the Florida market. USF and UCF have huge student bodies with the potential to keep some top local athletes who don't want to be flying out to Stillwater, Ames, and Lubbock every weekend.

I'm not sure you stay at 12. You've got to claw tooth and nail. Of course this assumes that the rest of the schools stick together, which I find unlikely as everyone will start looking out for #1 and move if they can.

This "market" talk is just as much as the NNNNBE fans were talking about when they said adding Houston & SD St captures the Texas & California market.

Not so much TVs as it is the recruiting. And this isn't going 2,000 miles away - it's in the normal footprint of the league.

[HJS]

Easy, stay at 12.

No offense, but Yukon & Rutgres add no value football wise and would simply be another mouth to feed

If you're losing FSU and/or Miami, you've got to get back into the Florida market. USF and UCF have huge student bodies with the potential to keep some top local athletes who don't want to be flying out to Stillwater, Ames, and Lubbock every weekend.

I'm not sure you stay at 12. You've got to claw tooth and nail. Of course this assumes that the rest of the schools stick together, which I find unlikely as everyone will start looking out for #1 and move if they can.

This "market" talk is just as much as the NNNNBE fans were talking about when they said adding Houston & SD St captures the Texas & California market.

Not so much TVs as it is the recruiting. And this isn't going 2,000 miles away - it's in the normal footprint of the league.

If you lose FSU and Miami, it no longer is the normal footprint of the league. The normal footprint of the league is then the Carolinas and the Northeast.

[cvilleagle]

Easy, stay at 12.

No offense, but Yukon & Rutgres add no value football wise and would simply be another mouth to feed

If you're losing FSU and/or Miami, you've got to get back into the Florida market. USF and UCF have huge student bodies with the potential to keep some top local athletes who don't want to be flying out to Stillwater, Ames, and Lubbock every weekend.

I'm not sure you stay at 12. You've got to claw tooth and nail. Of course this assumes that the rest of the schools stick together, which I find unlikely as everyone will start looking out for #1 and move if they can.

This "market" talk is just as much as the NNNNBE fans were talking about when they said adding Houston & SD St captures the Texas & California market.

Not so much TVs as it is the recruiting. And this isn't going 2,000 miles away - it's in the normal footprint of the league.

If you lose FSU and Miami, it no longer is the normal footprint of the league. The normal footprint of the league is then the Carolinas and the Northeast.

I agree that if you lose FSU AND Miami, you may have to consider adding UCF or USF. Otherwise hang tight.

[pick6pedro]

Easy, stay at 12.

No offense, but Yukon & Rutgres add no value football wise and would simply be another mouth to feed

If you're losing FSU and/or Miami, you've got to get back into the Florida market. USF and UCF have huge student bodies with the potential to keep some top local athletes who don't want to be flying out to Stillwater, Ames, and Lubbock every weekend.

I'm not sure you stay at 12. You've got to claw tooth and nail. Of course this assumes that the rest of the schools stick together, which I find unlikely as everyone will start looking out for #1 and move if they can.

This "market" talk is just as much as the NNNNBE fans were talking about when they said adding Houston & SD St captures the Texas & California market.

Not so much TVs as it is the recruiting. And this isn't going 2,000 miles away - it's in the normal footprint of the league.

If you lose FSU and Miami, it no longer is the normal footprint of the league. The normal footprint of the league is then the Carolinas and the Northeast.

Fine it's within the former footprint and a contiguous expansion of the then current footprint. I think you were aware of what I meant, especially in contrast to taking Texas and California schools.

[claver2010]

If BC wants to maintain recruiting connections in FL (any staff would be stupid to cut off connections down there esp with the Catholic HS presence), BC can schedule game there. Not worth the sacrifice in quality of conference to maintain recruiting connections.

[pick6pedro]

If BC wants to maintain recruiting connections in FL (any staff would be stupid to cut off connections down there esp with the Catholic HS presence), BC can schedule game there. Not worth the sacrifice in quality of conference to maintain recruiting connections.

I'm sure you can appreciate that 1) the decision is not just about BC and 2) there is a significant difference between filling 1/3 OOC slots (really 1/2 if you consider 1AA a given) and a guaranteed game there at least every other year.

I agree that these schools aren't the best fit from an academic or historical performance perspective. But if you give them ACC money and games against ACC teams, there's not much holding them back from becoming much stronger performers. Obviously hoops is terrible. But if you're talking potential, I'd rather have all those built in advantages over a program that has been a joke for centuries or a new D1 program in a terrible recruiting spot that both supposedly bring TV markets.

[Eagles97]

Am I over simplfying or does all of this really come down to the playoff format and not the ACC TV deal driving the realignment talk? The TV deal, while not great, can be debated as to how far away it is from the other conferences, especially the Big 12. With the exit fee that FSU and / or Clemson would have to pay the payback / breakeven on the move is a ways out.

If the playoff moves to the plus one, I get that the ACC is one the outside looking in behind the winners of the Rose Bowl and Champions Bowl but if the four team playoff becomes a reality then I don't see when push comes to shove how the move really makes sense for any of the rumored schools.

[eagle9903]

Am I over simplfying or does all of this really come down to the playoff format and not the ACC TV deal driving the realignment talk? The TV deal, while not great, can be debated as to how far away it is from the other conferences, especially the Big 12. With the exit fee that FSU and / or Clemson would have to pay the payback / breakeven on the move is a ways out.

If the playoff moves to the plus one, I get that the ACC is one the outside looking in behind the winners of the Rose Bowl and Champions Bowl but if the four team playoff becomes a reality then I don't see when push comes to shove how the move really makes sense for any of the rumored schools.

No, I think you nailed it. The TV deal pissed off a bunch of internet nobodies like ourselves and by itself shouldn't be close to enough, but the access to playoffs is a real concern if the plus one is the format.

[HJS]

Am I over simplfying or does all of this really come down to the playoff format and not the ACC TV deal driving the realignment talk? The TV deal, while not great, can be debated as to how far away it is from the other conferences, especially the Big 12. With the exit fee that FSU and / or Clemson would have to pay the payback / breakeven on the move is a ways out.

If the playoff moves to the plus one, I get that the ACC is one the outside looking in behind the winners of the Rose Bowl and Champions Bowl but if the four team playoff becomes a reality then I don't see when push comes to shove how the move really makes sense for any of the rumored schools.

No, I think you nailed it. The TV deal pissed off a bunch of internet nobodies like ourselves and by itself shouldn't be close to enough, but the access to playoffs is a real concern if the plus one is the format.

The Playoff Format could be the defining factor. The questions involve both access and spitting of revenues. Nonetheless, I think even if the ACC gets what it wants from a playoff (i.e. the Top 4 ranked conference champs), FSU and Clemson are gone if Texas is willing to take them. It will have nothing to do with money or logic. At this point... it is all about emotion.

I will say that I talked to someone who knows the FSU Pres and he said that he is essentially pushing for FSU to leave the ACC... really doesn't care where, he wants them out.

I think Clemson feels like we/Cuse felt with Miami... if FSU leaves we have to go too. Not really psyched about it, but it is better than potentially being left behind (and with the SEC not having any interest, there is no other potential lifeboat on the horizon).

[innocentbystander]

Am I over simplfying or does all of this really come down to the playoff format and not the ACC TV deal driving the realignment talk? The TV deal, while not great, can be debated as to how far away it is from the other conferences, especially the Big 12. With the exit fee that FSU and / or Clemson would have to pay the payback / breakeven on the move is a ways out.

If the playoff moves to the plus one, I get that the ACC is one the outside looking in behind the winners of the Rose Bowl and Champions Bowl but if the four team playoff becomes a reality then I don't see when push comes to shove how the move really makes sense for any of the rumored schools.

No, I think you nailed it. The TV deal pissed off a bunch of internet nobodies like ourselves and by itself shouldn't be close to enough, but the access to playoffs is a real concern if the plus one is the format.

The Playoff Format could be the defining factor. The questions involve both access and spitting of revenues. Nonetheless, I think even if the ACC gets what it wants from a playoff (i.e. the Top 4 ranked conference champs), FSU and Clemson are gone if Texas is willing to take them. It will have nothing to do with money or logic. At this point... it is all about emotion.

it is always about the money

[bcaddict]

Am I over simplfying or does all of this really come down to the playoff format and not the ACC TV deal driving the realignment talk? The TV deal, while not great, can be debated as to how far away it is from the other conferences, especially the Big 12. With the exit fee that FSU and / or Clemson would have to pay the payback / breakeven on the move is a ways out.

If the playoff moves to the plus one, I get that the ACC is one the outside looking in behind the winners of the Rose Bowl and Champions Bowl but if the four team playoff becomes a reality then I don't see when push comes to shove how the move really makes sense for any of the rumored schools.

No, I think you nailed it. The TV deal pissed off a bunch of internet nobodies like ourselves and by itself shouldn't be close to enough, but the access to playoffs is a real concern if the plus one is the format.

The Playoff Format could be the defining factor. The questions involve both access and spitting of revenues. Nonetheless, I think even if the ACC gets what it wants from a playoff (i.e. the Top 4 ranked conference champs), FSU and Clemson are gone if Texas is willing to take them. It will have nothing to do with money or logic. At this point... it is all about emotion.

I will say that I talked to someone who knows the FSU Pres and he said that he is essentially pushing for FSU to leave the ACC... really doesn't care where, he wants them out.

I think Clemson feels like we/Cuse felt with Miami... if FSU leaves we have to go too. Not really psyched about it, but it is better than potentially being left behind (and with the SEC not having any interest, there is no other potential lifeboat on the horizon).

Boy the FSU prez certainly performed one helluva an acting job then with his public comments trashing the potential move to the B12 in favor of staying in the ACC. Or maybe he's pulled a complete 180 after saying that the B12 academics are far inferior, the financial disparity in the respective tv rights deals is marginal in light of the additional travel costs, and as a former Dean at UT, he fully understands what its like in a conference where one school dominates (UT) far more than some alleged favored ideology (bball > fball in the acc).

I completely agree that playoff access will be the impelling force of future realignment.

[twballgame9]

I like the palatine parody poster. Kudos.

[HJS]

I will say that I talked to someone who knows the FSU Pres and he said that he is essentially pushing for FSU to leave the ACC... really doesn't care where, he wants them out.

Boy the FSU prez certainly performed one helluva an acting job then with his public comments trashing the potential move to the B12 in favor of staying in the ACC. Or maybe he's pulled a complete 180 after saying that the B12 academics are far inferior, the financial disparity in the respective tv rights deals is marginal in light of the additional travel costs, and as a former Dean at UT, he fully understands what its like in a conference where one school dominates (UT) far more than some alleged favored ideology (bball > fball in the acc).

I completely agree that playoff access will be the impelling force of future realignment.

Sorry... I mistyped... not the FSU University President... the FSU President of the BOT. The ambulance-chasing hick... Haggardy are something.

[bcaddict]

I will say that I talked to someone who knows the FSU Pres and he said that he is essentially pushing for FSU to leave the ACC... really doesn't care where, he wants them out.

Boy the FSU prez certainly performed one helluva an acting job then with his public comments trashing the potential move to the B12 in favor of staying in the ACC. Or maybe he's pulled a complete 180 after saying that the B12 academics are far inferior, the financial disparity in the respective tv rights deals is marginal in light of the additional travel costs, and as a former Dean at UT, he fully understands what its like in a conference where one school dominates (UT) far more than some alleged favored ideology (bball > fball in the acc).

I completely agree that playoff access will be the impelling force of future realignment.

Sorry... I mistyped... not the FSU University President... the FSU President of the BOT. The ambulance-chasing hick... Haggardy are something.

haha ohh god yeah.