Commits/Recruiting

[pick6pedro]

Donahue et al. have recruited 8 players who were on this year's team, and none of them performed any better than the scouting services would have have led you to believe. It's also a gross distortion to say I said they have no eye for talent; what I said is that they've shown no eye for talent that other people didn't see. I could also say that your assessment of the present team stretches optimism to the limit.

Wait what? now Ryan Anderson was highly recruited and Dennis Clifford too?

I'm getting confused.

I never said anything about Anderson or Clifford being highly recruited, although both would certainly have gotten more offers if they hadn't committed to BC early. What I meant was that Anderson performed this season about as well as you'd expect a borderline top-100 player to perform, and Clifford performed roughly on the level of a 7-foot semi-project with a significant, maybe even a big, upside. I think the same was also true of the rest; they performed pretty much in sync with their incoming credentials -- no surprises. What I'm saying Donahue et al. lack (on the existing evidence, at least) is the ability to find gold (e.g., Bell or Smith) that others think is lead. (I won't mention Dudley because there was so much fluky good luck involved in his case -- he really was a gift from the hoop gods.)

I think the bigger question is have they whiffed on lead they thought was gold (or is it too early) or have they not gone after any lead that could be gold? Depending on how that is answered makes a huge difference on how to evaluate the staff based on this factor.

One could easily point to getting in early on guys that turned out to get much more attention later as having an eye for talent that other people didn't see. Of course that would conflict with an agenda.

[eagle9903]

Donahue et al. have recruited 8 players who were on this year's team, and none of them performed any better than the scouting services would have have led you to believe. It's also a gross distortion to say I said they have no eye for talent; what I said is that they've shown no eye for talent that other people didn't see. I could also say that your assessment of the present team stretches optimism to the limit.

Wait what? now Ryan Anderson was highly recruited and Dennis Clifford too?

I'm getting confused.

I never said anything about Anderson or Clifford being highly recruited, although both would certainly have gotten more offers if they hadn't committed to BC early. What I meant was that Anderson performed this season about as well as you'd expect a borderline top-100 player to perform, and Clifford performed roughly on the level of a 7-foot semi-project with a significant, maybe even a big, upside. I think the same was also true of the rest; they performed pretty much in sync with their incoming credentials -- no surprises. What I'm saying Donahue et al. lack (on the existing evidence, at least) is the ability to find gold (e.g., Bell or Smith) that others think is lead. (I won't mention Dudley because there was so much fluky good luck involved in his case -- he really was a gift from the hoop gods.)

I guess the 2011 players being in sync with their incoming credentials depends on the credentials you choose to use. I think Clifford was the best of the freshman until halfway through the season when Anderson blew by him and he seemed to get tired. ESPN rates Clifford a 2* 87(for context Danny Rubin was a 2* 84) above only Odio and Heckmann who they didn't evaluate. I thought he certainly showed signs of exceeding that recruiting service analysis. Rivals on the other hand rated him a 3* with no other rating information. That seems in the ball park at least. All in all I think your definition of diamond in the rough is more restrictive than mine would be. Also I'd point out for purposes of this discussion that I really don't care if a player is a good player who had a high ranking or a good player who has outplayed his ranking so long as he is a good player.

My entire point here is that there is an overall lack of existing evidence. I don't feel that lack of evidence equals evidence of lack of recruiting identification ability, it is simply not enough evidence. Donahue has not conclusively shown any ability to find diamonds in the rough but he has not conclusively shown any absence of such ability. He has not been here long enough to do either. In my opinion it is only fair to look at the 7 scholarship players in the class of 2011 to determine his recruiting ability thus far from a diamonds in the rough perspective. It is patently dishonest to look at the Moton class as Donahue was hired a week before spring signing day and came from an Ivy so its not like he had a bunch of recruits to take with him. From the 2011 7 I think very little can yet be gauged. I will not argue that any of them has been as effective as freshman Bell, I will argue that the situation is too dissimilar to compare any of Al's other diamonds, however. From a trajectory standpoint, can you tell me Anderson could not have complimented Bell in 2004 as Smith did as a freshman, or complimented Smith (as a small forward which some are clamoring for) in 2005 as Dudley did as a freshman, or at least complimented Bell as Sidney did as a freshman in 2001(this being less impressive as Sidney would never carry a team on his own)?

[HJS]

'12 PF Toby Hegner is listing BC as one of many schools trying to land his services for next season

Before I read another thing, Google his name, or find out his other offers... I'm guessing that he is a skinny white kid with limited athleticism.

[twballgame9]

I think the "there's not enough evidence yet to determine if they are diamonds in the rough" argument is about as lacking as one argument can be. Most of the diamonds in Al's tenure showed right away. Here the Don has a nice class and the guys we thought would perform, did. Daniels, Clifford, Jackson and Anderson. No diamonds in the rough there.

[HJS]

'12 PF Toby Hegner is listing BC as one of many schools trying to land his services for next season

Before I read another thing, Google his name, or find out his other offers... I'm guessing that he is a skinny white kid with limited athleticism.

He is white (shocking). He is very skinny (shocking). And the videos show he has very limited athleticism (shocking).
He is listed between 6'9 and 6'10" and weighing between 195 and 205. It also seems that he has reclassified for 2013. All that said, I'll say he has a an incredibly good 3-point shot for a kid his size. Oh yeah... I'm sure he has pretty high Basketball IQ.

[eagle9903]

I think the "there's not enough evidence yet to determine if they are diamonds in the rough" argument is about as lacking as one argument can be. Most of the diamonds in Al's tenure showed right away. Here the Don has a nice class and the guys we thought would perform, did. Daniels, Clifford, Jackson and Anderson. No diamonds in the rough there.

How is it lacking?

Also, fine Donahue has no recruiting limitations because he's getting all these guys we thought would perform.

[cvilleagle]

Does anyone on this board have an opinion about whether Donahue is a good recruiter? I wish there was something I could read about that.

[eepstein0]

'12 PF Toby Hegner is listing BC as one of many schools trying to land his services for next season

Before I read another thing, Google his name, or find out his other offers... I'm guessing that he is a skinny white kid with limited athleticism.

He is white (shocking). He is very skinny (shocking). And the videos show he has very limited athleticism (shocking).
He is listed between 6'9 and 6'10" and weighing between 195 and 205. It also seems that he has reclassified for 2013. All that said, I'll say he has a an incredibly good 3-point shot for a kid his size. Oh yeah... I'm sure he has pretty high Basketball IQ.

He's closer to high major talent. If you're 6'10" and can shoot the ball like that you'll find plenty of suitors. He's a 2013 with Iowa St & Marquette offers along with mid-majors. In fairness he lost 25 pounds due to Mono so he probably plays more like 6'10" 220 pounds. His athleticism sucks but outside of that he looks like he can play.

[eagle9903]

'12 PF Toby Hegner is listing BC as one of many schools trying to land his services for next season

Before I read another thing, Google his name, or find out his other offers... I'm guessing that he is a skinny white kid with limited athleticism.

He is white (shocking). He is very skinny (shocking). And the videos show he has very limited athleticism (shocking).
He is listed between 6'9 and 6'10" and weighing between 195 and 205. It also seems that he has reclassified for 2013. All that said, I'll say he has a an incredibly good 3-point shot for a kid his size. Oh yeah... I'm sure he has pretty high Basketball IQ.

He's closer to high major talent. If you're 6'10" and can shoot the ball like that you'll find plenty of suitors. He's a 2013 with Iowa St & Marquette offers along with mid-majors. In fairness he lost 25 pounds due to Mono so he probably plays more like 6'10" 220 pounds. His athleticism sucks but outside of that he looks like he can play.

they mean he's white, for the benefit of the posters who couldn't figure out the subtlety.

[eepstein0]

'12 PF Toby Hegner is listing BC as one of many schools trying to land his services for next season

Before I read another thing, Google his name, or find out his other offers... I'm guessing that he is a skinny white kid with limited athleticism.

He is white (shocking). He is very skinny (shocking). And the videos show he has very limited athleticism (shocking).
He is listed between 6'9 and 6'10" and weighing between 195 and 205. It also seems that he has reclassified for 2013. All that said, I'll say he has a an incredibly good 3-point shot for a kid his size. Oh yeah... I'm sure he has pretty high Basketball IQ.

He's closer to high major talent. If you're 6'10" and can shoot the ball like that you'll find plenty of suitors. He's a 2013 with Iowa St & Marquette offers along with mid-majors. In fairness he lost 25 pounds due to Mono so he probably plays more like 6'10" 220 pounds. His athleticism sucks but outside of that he looks like he can play.

they mean he's white, for the benefit of the posters who couldn't figure out the subtlety.

Unless you want to turn into Wisconsin without the defense, I'd suggest we recruit some kids with better athleticism.

BC is also interested in 2013 Nick Fuller.

[Brablc]

'12 PF Toby Hegner is listing BC as one of many schools trying to land his services for next season

Before I read another thing, Google his name, or find out his other offers... I'm guessing that he is a skinny white kid with limited athleticism.

He is white (shocking). He is very skinny (shocking). And the videos show he has very limited athleticism (shocking).
He is listed between 6'9 and 6'10" and weighing between 195 and 205. It also seems that he has reclassified for 2013. All that said, I'll say he has a an incredibly good 3-point shot for a kid his size. Oh yeah... I'm sure he has pretty high Basketball IQ.

He's closer to high major talent. If you're 6'10" and can shoot the ball like that you'll find plenty of suitors. He's a 2013 with Iowa St & Marquette offers along with mid-majors. In fairness he lost 25 pounds due to Mono so he probably plays more like 6'10" 220 pounds. His athleticism sucks but outside of that he looks like he can play.

they mean he's white, for the benefit of the posters who couldn't figure out the subtlety.

Unless you want to turn into Wisconsin without the defense, I'd suggest we recruit some kids with better athleticism.

BC is also interested in 2013 Nick Fuller.

Here's an article on Toby from ESPN in March. Reggie Rankin listed him as a riser:

Junior Toby Hegner (Pine River, Wis./Berlin) has played well despite losing 25 pounds from having mononucleosis. The 6-foot-9, 195-pound skilled power forward averaged 18.0 points, 9.0 rebounds and 1.8 blocks per game this season and is almost back to his weight (207 pounds) before mono set in.

Hegner is a face-up forward who can score inside or out to the arc with excellent 3-point range. In the low post, he is effective scoring on hook shots with either hand, a good rebounder on both ends and also makes his presence felt blocking shots.

"My low post moves are a strength," Hegner said. "My-go to move in the post is the hook that I can shoot with either hand. I am also comfortable facing to shoot or drive. I have to work on my driving better and my pull up."

Hegner will run with the Wisconsin Playmakers on the AAU/travel circuit this spring and summer.

"Toby is a 6-9 face-up 4-man with a nice jump hook with either hand. He shoots the ball well for a player his size with 3-point range. He is also not afraid to bang on the low block. He is a great kid that wants to be good. He lives and dies hoops. Toby will do whatever it takes to get in the gym," Wisconsin Playmakers coach Jason Jesperson said.

"Toby is a skilled interior prospect with nice size, solid instincts and decent athleticism. He can run the floor, has solid rebounding and passing instincts and while he is still developing his post skills and physical tools, Toby has shown the ability to score inside and out with a perimeter stroke that extends beyond the arc. Still raw in some areas, Hegner has a nice ceiling and with continued development of his physical tools and post skills his best basketball is ahead of him" Wisconsin high school basketball guru Antonio Curro, who is the National Recruiting Editor for NY2LASPORTS.com.

Hegner has offers from UW-Green Bay, UW-Milwaukee, Marquette, Valpo, Central Michigan, Iowa State, Northern Iowa, Creighton, Drake, Northwestern and Colorado State.

"I have taken unofficial visits to all the schools except Colorado State. I am looking for a school where I can have a good relationship with the coaching staff and the style of play the fits me," he said.

[eagle9903]

Unless you want to turn into Wisconsin without the defense, I'd suggest we recruit some kids with better athleticism.

BC is also interested in 2013 Nick Fuller.

Let's make your analysis more fun. For "unathletic" recruits please just post this from now on:



for athletic recruits, this:

[bignick33]

[eagle9903]

good, now shaddix will be caught up.

[HJS]

'12 PF Toby Hegner is listing BC as one of many schools trying to land his services for next season

Before I read another thing, Google his name, or find out his other offers... I'm guessing that he is a skinny white kid with limited athleticism.

He is white (shocking). He is very skinny (shocking). And the videos show he has very limited athleticism (shocking).
He is listed between 6'9 and 6'10" and weighing between 195 and 205. It also seems that he has reclassified for 2013. All that said, I'll say he has a an incredibly good 3-point shot for a kid his size. Oh yeah... I'm sure he has pretty high Basketball IQ.

He's closer to high major talent. If you're 6'10" and can shoot the ball like that you'll find plenty of suitors. He's a 2013 with Iowa St & Marquette offers along with mid-majors. In fairness he lost 25 pounds due to Mono so he probably plays more like 6'10" 220 pounds. His athleticism sucks but outside of that he looks like he can play.

they mean he's white, for the benefit of the posters who couldn't figure out the subtlety.

What subtlety?

[eagle9903]

'12 PF Toby Hegner is listing BC as one of many schools trying to land his services for next season

Before I read another thing, Google his name, or find out his other offers... I'm guessing that he is a skinny white kid with limited athleticism.

He is white (shocking). He is very skinny (shocking). And the videos show he has very limited athleticism (shocking).
He is listed between 6'9 and 6'10" and weighing between 195 and 205. It also seems that he has reclassified for 2013. All that said, I'll say he has a an incredibly good 3-point shot for a kid his size. Oh yeah... I'm sure he has pretty high Basketball IQ.

He's closer to high major talent. If you're 6'10" and can shoot the ball like that you'll find plenty of suitors. He's a 2013 with Iowa St & Marquette offers along with mid-majors. In fairness he lost 25 pounds due to Mono so he probably plays more like 6'10" 220 pounds. His athleticism sucks but outside of that he looks like he can play.

they mean he's white, for the benefit of the posters who couldn't figure out the subtlety.

What subtlety?

red.

[bignick33]

Are you guys gonna fight again?

[twballgame9]

I think the "there's not enough evidence yet to determine if they are diamonds in the rough" argument is about as lacking as one argument can be. Most of the diamonds in Al's tenure showed right away. Here the Don has a nice class and the guys we thought would perform, did. Daniels, Clifford, Jackson and Anderson. No diamonds in the rough there.

How is it lacking?

Also, fine Donahue has no recruiting limitations because he's getting all these guys we thought would perform.

Because in a class and a half, the Don got 4 good players and 6-7 rough. The good players were good, the rough players were rough. In previous BC classes, the diamonds showed early. Unless your implication is that Moton would have been the second coming of Troy Bell had he stayed, I think we can judge.

I was happy with last year's class. Don got 4 contributors. He also got 4 guys from whom I do not expect much given what I have seen. I think we would have seen it by now. I fully expect the top four guys to get better. I expect the rest of the core to come from players that aren't on the team yet. If that is not the case, they are going to be mediocre.

[eagle9903]

I think the "there's not enough evidence yet to determine if they are diamonds in the rough" argument is about as lacking as one argument can be. Most of the diamonds in Al's tenure showed right away. Here the Don has a nice class and the guys we thought would perform, did. Daniels, Clifford, Jackson and Anderson. No diamonds in the rough there.

How is it lacking?

Also, fine Donahue has no recruiting limitations because he's getting all these guys we thought would perform.

Because in a class and a half, the Don got 4 good players and 6-7 rough. The good players were good, the rough players were rough. In previous BC classes, the diamonds showed early. Unless your implication is that Moton would have been the second coming of Troy Bell had he stayed, I think we can judge.

I was happy with last year's class. Don got 4 contributors. He also got 4 guys from whom I do not expect much given what I have seen. I think we would have seen it by now. I fully expect the top four guys to get better. I expect the rest of the core to come from players that aren't on the team yet. If that is not the case, they are going to be mediocre.

As I see it, 2011(which is what I view as the appropriate sample) is 1 potential go-to guy, 3 potential multi-year starters, one potential valuable backup, one complete wildcard and a likely bust. That's pretty good and is not enough information to determine an ability or lack thereof of diamond identifying ability. To wit, Skinner the unanimously agreed solid diamond identifyer's first class included: Julian Bah, Jonathan Beerbohm, Jim Boland, Nicholas Dunn, Kenny Harley and Dwayne Pina(who was a walkon I think). That's one multiyear starter in Harley, a solid bench player/starter in Beerbohm and 3 busts in Bah, Boland and Dunn. That class is the best comparison to 2011. Skinner didn't have a one week class. However, if you insist on going to Skinner's second class: Willie Deane, Osei Millar, Brian Ross, Clinton Sims and Kenny Walls, you will find 2 busts, a guy who played great for another team, a multi year starter and a valuable backup.

I think the above shows that you could not have known Skinner was good or awful at finding diamonds in the rough at the comparable moment in his tenure. Therefore, you cannot know that Donahue is or is not good at finding diamonds in the rough now.

Just for kicks, Skinner recruited Julian Bah, Jim Boland, Nicolas Dunn, Osei Millar, Clinton Sims, Devon Evertson, Andrew Dudley, Das Big Man, Udo, Jonnie Jackson, Gordan Watt, evan neisler, marquez haynes, Daye Kaba, Shamari Spears, Tyler Roche, Dallas Elmore. He missed a bit.

[Shaddix]

Dylan Ennis to Villanova per Alex Kline

[HJS]

I think the "there's not enough evidence yet to determine if they are diamonds in the rough" argument is about as lacking as one argument can be. Most of the diamonds in Al's tenure showed right away. Here the Don has a nice class and the guys we thought would perform, did. Daniels, Clifford, Jackson and Anderson. No diamonds in the rough there.

How is it lacking?

Also, fine Donahue has no recruiting limitations because he's getting all these guys we thought would perform.

Because in a class and a half, the Don got 4 good players and 6-7 rough. The good players were good, the rough players were rough. In previous BC classes, the diamonds showed early. Unless your implication is that Moton would have been the second coming of Troy Bell had he stayed, I think we can judge.

I was happy with last year's class. Don got 4 contributors. He also got 4 guys from whom I do not expect much given what I have seen. I think we would have seen it by now. I fully expect the top four guys to get better. I expect the rest of the core to come from players that aren't on the team yet. If that is not the case, they are going to be mediocre.

As I see it, 2011(which is what I view as the appropriate sample) is 1 potential go-to guy, 3 potential multi-year starters, one potential valuable backup, one complete wildcard and a likely bust. That's pretty good and is not enough information to determine an ability or lack thereof of diamond identifying ability. To wit, Skinner the unanimously agreed solid diamond identifyer's first class included: Julian Bah, Jonathan Beerbohm, Jim Boland, Nicholas Dunn, Kenny Harley and Dwayne Pina(who was a walkon I think). That's one multiyear starter in Harley, a solid bench player/starter in Beerbohm and 3 busts in Bah, Boland and Dunn. That class is the best comparison to 2011. Skinner didn't have a one week class. However, if you insist on going to Skinner's second class: Willie Deane, Osei Millar, Brian Ross, Clinton Sims and Kenny Walls, you will find 2 busts, a guy who played great for another team, a multi year starter and a valuable backup.

Wow!!! You just disregarded Don's interim class (which included Moton) but included Skinner's interim class.

Skinner was hired at BC on April 17, 1997 and Donahue was hired on April 10, 2010. Skinner actually had one less week to recruit than Don. Given that, I think he did a much better job recruiting in the interim period as Harley and Beerbohm were both solid contributors. I think that Don's 1st full class is considerably better than Skinner's first full class. But, there is simply no way Don's 2nd full class (Rohan/Hanlan) will be able to hold a candle to Skinner's (Bell/Agabai).

As a point of future reference, Skinner's 3rd class was Udo and Sidney. His 4th was Bryant, Doornekamp, Watson and Das Big Man. His 5th was Hinnant, Jackson and Cookie. His 6th was Duds, Evertsen, Hailey and Marshall. His 7th was McLain, Oates, Watt and Swatta. His 8th was Haynes, Ty and Neisler. His 9th was Kaba, Roche and Spears. His 10th was Dunn, Paris, Raji, Sanders, Southern. His 11th was Reggie, Elmore and Ravenal. His 12th was nonexistent.

[eagle9903]

I think the "there's not enough evidence yet to determine if they are diamonds in the rough" argument is about as lacking as one argument can be. Most of the diamonds in Al's tenure showed right away. Here the Don has a nice class and the guys we thought would perform, did. Daniels, Clifford, Jackson and Anderson. No diamonds in the rough there.

How is it lacking?

Also, fine Donahue has no recruiting limitations because he's getting all these guys we thought would perform.

Because in a class and a half, the Don got 4 good players and 6-7 rough. The good players were good, the rough players were rough. In previous BC classes, the diamonds showed early. Unless your implication is that Moton would have been the second coming of Troy Bell had he stayed, I think we can judge.

I was happy with last year's class. Don got 4 contributors. He also got 4 guys from whom I do not expect much given what I have seen. I think we would have seen it by now. I fully expect the top four guys to get better. I expect the rest of the core to come from players that aren't on the team yet. If that is not the case, they are going to be mediocre.

As I see it, 2011(which is what I view as the appropriate sample) is 1 potential go-to guy, 3 potential multi-year starters, one potential valuable backup, one complete wildcard and a likely bust. That's pretty good and is not enough information to determine an ability or lack thereof of diamond identifying ability. To wit, Skinner the unanimously agreed solid diamond identifyer's first class included: Julian Bah, Jonathan Beerbohm, Jim Boland, Nicholas Dunn, Kenny Harley and Dwayne Pina(who was a walkon I think). That's one multiyear starter in Harley, a solid bench player/starter in Beerbohm and 3 busts in Bah, Boland and Dunn. That class is the best comparison to 2011. Skinner didn't have a one week class. However, if you insist on going to Skinner's second class: Willie Deane, Osei Millar, Brian Ross, Clinton Sims and Kenny Walls, you will find 2 busts, a guy who played great for another team, a multi year starter and a valuable backup.

Isn't this an apples to oranges example? You just disregarded Don's interim class (which included Moton) but included Skinner's interim class.

Skinner was hired at BC on April 17, 1997 and Donahue was hired on April 10, 2010. Skinner actually had one less week to recruit than Don. Given that, I think he did a much better job recruiting in the interim period as Harley and Beerbohm were both solid contributors. I think that Don's 1st full class is considerably better than Skinner's first full class. But, there is simply no way Don's 2nd full class (Rohan/Hanlan) will be able to hold a candle to Skinner's (Bell/Agabai).

Good gotcha, unless you went and read my next portion addressing Al's second class and ignore the difference between coming from a then upper tier A-10 program and an Ivy. By the way I can hear you bitching back in 1997 about Kenny Harley being a Manhattan Jaspers decommit and probably talking about how he ain't a BigEast player.

Also so as to not allow you to frame this as a me saying Hanlan will be better than Bell, my position is that you didn't know Bell or Agbai was going to be good or even OK on April 24, 1999.

Also, just to piss you off:

[HJS]

Also so as to not allow you to frame this as a me saying Hanlan will be better than Bell, my position is that you didn't know Bell or Agbai was going to be good or even OK on April 24, 1999.

This is as inaccurate as your wanting to compare Don's 2nd class to Skinner's first. TBell was viewed as a savior to most of Eagle Action. The kid averaged something insane like 40+ points a game. We got updates on his high school games more than we did Ryan Anderson.

[eagle9903]

Also so as to not allow you to frame this as a me saying Hanlan will be better than Bell, my position is that you didn't know Bell or Agbai was going to be good or even OK on April 24, 1999.

This is as inaccurate as your wanting to compare Don's 2nd class to Skinner's first. TBell was viewed as a savior to most of Eagle Action. The kid averaged something insane like 40+ points a game. We got updates on his high school games more than we did Ryan Anderson.

In addition to the difference between opinion(what posters on EA thought) and fact (we now in 2012 know the results of the 1999-2000 season) which is increasingly confused throughout this thread, it was probably posters like me saying he might be good due to his high school results and Minnt Mr. Basketball consideration and posters like you saying he wasn't athletic enough and didn't have good high major offers so he ain't a BigEast player.

[HJS]

In looking at Skinner's recruiting classes, it seems that he was very good at making sure he got a star or 2 contributors in each class. Interestingly, as soon as he stumbled (his 10th class), things started to fall apart. He seemed to recover nicely with his 11th and 12th classes, but the recruiting implosion of the 13th class ultimately doomed his tenure and sank the program. I don't believe the class of Noreen, Heslip and Papa would've done anything to turn that around.

1st Class (interim) - Beerbohm, Harley and Pina
2nd Class - Willie Deane, Osei Millar, Brian Ross, Clinton Sims and Kenny Walls
3rd Class - TBell, Agbai and Andrew Dudley
4th Class - Udo and Sidney
5th Class - Bryant, Doornekamp, Watson and Das Big Man
6th Class - Hinnant, Jackson and Cookie.
7th Class - Duds, Evertsen, Hailey and Marshall.
8th Class - McLain, Oates, Watt and Swatta
9th Class - Haynes, Ty and Neisler.
10th Class - Kaba, Roche and Spears
11th Class - Dunn, Paris, Raji, Sanders, Southern
12th Class - Reggie, Elmore and Ravenel
13th Class - nobody

In comparing to Donahue, Don put himself a bit behind the 8-ball by not getting a single contributor from his interim class. However, he more than recovered with his class of Anderson, Clifford, LoJack, Daniels, Heckmann, Caudill and Odio. Depending on how special Hanlan is or isn't will determine if Don is keeping pace with Skinner's recruiting.

[BC '00]

In looking at Skinner's recruiting classes, it seems that he was very good at making sure he got a star or 2 contributors in each class. Interestingly, as soon as he stumbled (his 10th class), things started to fall apart. He seemed to recover nicely with his 11th and 12th classes, but the recruiting implosion of the 13th class ultimately doomed his tenure and sank the program. I don't believe the class of Noreen, Heslip and Papa would've done anything to turn that around.

1st Class (interim) - Beerbohm, Harley and Pina
2nd Class - Willie Deane, Osei Millar, Brian Ross, Clinton Sims and Kenny Walls
3rd Class - TBell, Agbai and Andrew Dudley
4th Class - Udo and Sidney
5th Class - Bryant, Doornekamp, Watson and Das Big Man
6th Class - Hinnant, Jackson and Cookie.
7th Class - Duds, Evertsen, Hailey and Marshall.
8th Class - McLain, Oates, Watt and Swatta
9th Class - Haynes, Ty and Neisler.
10th Class - Kaba, Roche and Spears
11th Class - Dunn, Paris, Raji, Sanders, Southern
12th Class - Reggie, Elmore and Ravenel
13th Class - nobody

In comparing to Donahue, Don put himself a bit behind the 8-ball by not getting a single contributor from his interim class. However, he more than recovered with his class of Anderson, Clifford, LoJack, Daniels, Heckmann, Caudill and Odio. Depending on how special Hanlan is or isn't will determine if Don is keeping pace with Skinner's recruiting.

Pina was a walk-on and lived across the hall from me freshman year for about 15 minutes, before moving in with some other hoops walk-ons.

I find it funny that you embolded Oates, Haynes, and Southern.

[HJS]

it was probably posters like me saying he might be good due to his high school results and Minnt Mr. Basketball consideration and posters like you saying he wasn't athletic enough and didn't have good high major offers so he ain't a BigEast player.

We sweated out TBell's visits to and offers from Xavier and Tennessee before Tim O'Shea was able to lock him down.

[pick6pedro]

In looking at Skinner's recruiting classes, it seems that he was very good at making sure he got a star or 2 contributors in each class. Interestingly, as soon as he stumbled (his 10th class), things started to fall apart. He seemed to recover nicely with his 11th and 12th classes, but the recruiting implosion of the 13th class ultimately doomed his tenure and sank the program. I don't believe the class of Noreen, Heslip and Papa would've done anything to turn that around.

1st Class (interim) - Beerbohm, Harley and Pina
2nd Class - Willie Deane, Osei Millar, Brian Ross, Clinton Sims and Kenny Walls
3rd Class - TBell, Agbai and Andrew Dudley
4th Class - Udo and Sidney
5th Class - Bryant, Doornekamp, Watson and Das Big Man
6th Class - Hinnant, Jackson and Cookie.
7th Class - Duds, Evertsen, Hailey and Marshall.
8th Class - McLain, Oates, Watt and Swatta
9th Class - Haynes, Ty and Neisler.
10th Class - Kaba, Roche and Spears
11th Class - Dunn, Paris, Raji, Sanders, Southern
12th Class - Reggie, Elmore and Ravenel
13th Class - nobody

In comparing to Donahue, Don put himself a bit behind the 8-ball by not getting a single contributor from his interim class. However, he more than recovered with his class of Anderson, Clifford, LoJack, Daniels, Heckmann, Caudill and Odio. Depending on how special Hanlan is or isn't will determine if Don is keeping pace with Skinner's recruiting.

I find your coloring inconsistent. Caudill could easily produce as much as Oates, Doorney, or Ross. Heckman could easily become a bold and produce more than Watson and Haynes. Haynes bold? Southern bold? Agbai blue? Sidney blue? Paris took a while to become a bold. I dunno - this just shows even more complications with this argument as a whole.

[HJS]

Pina was a walk-on and lived across the hall from me freshman year for about 15 minutes, before moving in with some other hoops walk-ons.

I find it funny that you embolded Oates, Haynes, and Sanders.

I'm pretty sure Pina quickly earned a schollie after arriving on campus as he immediately took control of the PG duties. I believe he held that role until his senior year when he had to stop playing due to a heart condition (if memory serves).

Sanders was a 3-year starter and (much to my chagrin) Oates saw 20+ minutes for 3 of his seasons. Haynes is the one that is questionable. I guess I bolded him more on what I felt he could do and less on how he was actually used. He played solid minutes as a back-up on those great Craig Smith teams. And, in my opinion, should've seen more time as he was an excellent defender. But, I certainly see why you'd question his inclusion. He probably doesn't fit with the rest of those bolded names.

[Cadillac90]

Pina was a walk-on and lived across the hall from me freshman year for about 15 minutes, before moving in with some other hoops walk-ons.

I find it funny that you embolded Oates, Haynes, and Sanders.

I'm pretty sure Pina quickly earned a schollie after arriving on campus as he immediately took control of the PG duties. I believe he held that role until his senior year when he had to stop playing due to a heart condition (if memory serves).

Sanders was a 3-year starter and (much to my chagrin) Oates saw 20+ minutes for 3 of his seasons. Haynes is the one that is questionable. I guess I bolded him more on what I felt he could do and less on how he was actually used. He played solid minutes as a back-up on those great Craig Smith teams. And, in my opinion, should've seen more time as he was an excellent defender. But, I certainly see why you'd question his inclusion. He probably doesn't fit with the rest of those bolded names.

Didn't Skinner recruit that Coleman kid from Minnesota who they let out of his commitment in August and hence Duds? I think Coleman went on to have a pretty good career for Minnesota. My hubby was not that bad of a recruiter.

Donahue showing some decent signs but still too early.