Commits/Recruiting

[cvilleagle]

@TheRecruitScoop RT @scott_chihoops 2012 PG Michael Orris will not attend Illinois and is re-opening his recruitment.

Well then. Let's see if the Don makes a move here.

We desperately need another point guard in this class.

[RedBaron67]

Stevie D wants to be a team like Wisconsin, Northwestern, teams with a bunch of White/European unathletic but smart dudes that are fitting his system.

Wisconsin is about ultra-stingy defense and valuing the ball as if it were a giant diamond -- not what Donahue's system is about.

Northwestern has (still) never made the NCAA tournament.

Your comparisons do not engender confidence in the current BC program.

Maryland pulled another top 100 recruit yesterday. BC meanwhile is freaking out about a kid who goes to Iona and another who's best offer is UC-Riverside.

Will you please stop pretending that prior to this year half the other ACC schools didn't routinely pull top 100 recruits each year and BC was pretty successful with guys who's best offers were places like nowhere?

BC has been progressively less successful in the ACC with players from nowhere and this year hit bottom. The whole scouting/recruiting subculture has its obnoxious side but pretty much gets things right, and ultimately there's no substitute for talent (which includes having one's head screwed on properly). I'm getting a bit weary of repeating it, but the plain fact is that BC needs better recruiting.

Jarrod Uthoff is transferring from Wisconsin. Gatorade POY from Iowa last year.

He would go absolutely bonkers in Donahue's system. He's really more a perimeter PF but is 6'8" and a great shooter. If we're going to pursue a transfer big man, please go after this kid. Perfect fit for this offense.

Uthoff is a bit of a mystery. He redshirted this year and then decided to transfer from Wisconsin without giving any real explanation; Bo Ryan praised his ability highly last fall, so it doesn't appear to be basketball-related. Last year the scouting services rated Uthoff as roughly on the same level as Anderson, so it's pretty clear that he's worth getting; he'd have to sit for a year and would then have 3 years of eligibility, finishing in 2016 with Hanlan and Rahon. As eepstein0 points out, he's a player Donahue should logically want, but I'm completely in the dark as to whether BC has any interest in Uthoff or any chance at getting him.

[bignick33]

In non slapfight related news, Oriakhi is going to Mizzou.

[BCEaglesFan]

@scott_chihoops Boston College has also been in contact about interest in 2012 PG Michael Orris

@TheBearNation MO State, K State, Pitt, and Boston College are in the running for former Illinois commit, Michael Orris

[Shaddix]

@scott_chihoops Boston College has also been in contact about interest in 2012 PG Michael Orris

@TheBearNation MO State, K State, Pitt, and Boston College are in the running for former Illinois commit, Michael Orris

Kid is blowing up, good thing BC got a head start on him....they will need it with Pitt and K State

[MattTheEagle]

@scott_chihoops Boston College has also been in contact about interest in 2012 PG Michael Orris

@TheBearNation MO State, K State, Pitt, and Boston College are in the running for former Illinois commit, Michael Orris

Kid is blowing up, good thing BC got a head start on him....they will need it with Pitt and K State

Are you serious? Orris would be a very bad pickup. Yes, he is very talented but we already have JD as well as a very good PG recruit coming in. With only 3 open scholarships for 2012 and 2013, at least two need to be forwards.

[Shaddix]

@scott_chihoops Boston College has also been in contact about interest in 2012 PG Michael Orris

@TheBearNation MO State, K State, Pitt, and Boston College are in the running for former Illinois commit, Michael Orris

Kid is blowing up, good thing BC got a head start on him....they will need it with Pitt and K State

Are you serious? Orris would be a very bad pickup. Yes, he is very talented but we already have JD as well as a very good PG recruit coming in. With only 3 open scholarships for 2012 and 2013, at least two need to be forwards.

What the hell? Relax dude, if you get a player recruited by Illinois, Pitt, and Kansas State, you get him. Gabe would probably transfer anyways.

[HJS]

@scott_chihoops Boston College has also been in contact about interest in 2012 PG Michael Orris

@TheBearNation MO State, K State, Pitt, and Boston College are in the running for former Illinois commit, Michael Orris

Kid is blowing up, good thing BC got a head start on him....they will need it with Pitt and K State

Are you serious? Orris would be a very bad pickup. Yes, he is very talented but we already have JD as well as a very good PG recruit coming in. With only 3 open scholarships for 2012 and 2013, at least two need to be forwards.

I have been leading the charge that this program is in dire need of 3s and 4s. And, I agree that JD and OH seem to be legit. However, I am glad they are going hard after Orris and I hope they land him. It seems to me that the staff made Orris a top priority in the Summer/Fall. Possibly their #2 PG target behind Dunn. At the end of the day, this program is not in position to turn down elite talent simply because they don't fit a convenient need. Further, I'd like to point out that (as a pg), he is multi-dimentional. Further, in the college game, you simply can't have enough ball-handlers.

[MattTheEagle]

I see our roster looking something like this:
C: Clifford/Caudill
PF: Anderson/?
SF: ?/Heckmann/Odio
SG: Jackson/Rahon
PG: Daniels/Hanlan/Moton

Basically, we have Daniels who has proven that he can hang against big time competition and Hanlan who shows promise. Not to mention we have Moton, whose game has improved and provides additional depth and defense. Orris is good, but I have a hard time believing he will be better than Daniels or Hanlan. Even if he was, I still don't think it is worth taking him when that would leave only two scholarship spots to fill some very big gaps at the forward position. Basically we don't have a SF (while Heckmann may end up being a solid 3 player, he has yet to be tested against quality competition). Furthermore, we have absolutely no backup to Anderson.

Even if Orris could play SG, I like the combo of Jackson/Rahon at SG as it is.

[RedBaron67]

@scott_chihoops Boston College has also been in contact about interest in 2012 PG Michael Orris

@TheBearNation MO State, K State, Pitt, and Boston College are in the running for former Illinois commit, Michael Orris

Kid is blowing up, good thing BC got a head start on him....they will need it with Pitt and K State

Are you serious? Orris would be a very bad pickup. Yes, he is very talented but we already have JD as well as a very good PG recruit coming in. With only 3 open scholarships for 2012 and 2013, at least two need to be forwards.

I have been leading the charge that this program is in dire need of 3s and 4s. And, I agree that JD and OH seem to be legit. However, I am glad they are going hard after Orris and I hope they land him. It seems to me that the staff made Orris a top priority in the Summer/Fall. Possibly their #2 PG target behind Dunn. At the end of the day, this program is not in position to turn down elite talent simply because they don't fit a convenient need. Further, I'd like to point out that (as a pg), he is multi-dimentional. Further, in the college game, you simply can't have enough ball-handlers.

Orris isn't exactly elite talent (his ratings are about the same as Hanlan's), but he's probably too good to take a pass on, considering that (1) PG is the one position that MUST be covered, (2) he and Hanlan can probably both swing to SG, which frees up the backcourt rotation, and (3) BC (for once) appears to have a really good shot at signing him.

K-State and Pitt both have established PG starters and backups returning, and Pitt also has an elite PG recruit (James Robinson from DeMatha) coming in; in addition, neither recruited Orris seriously the last time around. In comparison, BC is both a more fluid and a more familiar situation; Orris attended at least one of Donahue's on-campus basketball camps, and he was about to make an official visit to BC when he decided to commit to Illinois.

BC's familiarity is especially significant because Orris has had an exceptionally unstable recruiting experience (and none of it, as far as I can see, his fault). He committed to Creighton as a junior on the advice of his high school coach, then decommitted when his coach was busted for criminal sexual abuse of a minor. After that he got help with the recruiting process from his AAU coach and eventually decided to sign with Illinois, which then, as we know, fired Weber. After Orris and his family met with the new coach Groce, they decided to look elsewhere. They are said to want to resolve the recruiting issue quickly, but obviously Orris is also going to be concerned about his comfort level after two successive screwed-up commitments. Both familiarity and Donahue's squeaky-clean aura should work in BC's favor; at the very least, our chances with Orris look better than average.

It's certainly true, of course, that if Orris commits and no one transfers, BC's recruiting for 2013 and 2014 will be very squeezed, and it's no less true that we desperately need help up front. Given my druthers, I'd rather have Jarrod Uthoff than Orris; however, I think the bird-in-the-hand rule definitely applies here.

[eepstein0]

Orris is 6'3" so can play SG. If he'll commit, take him. Donahue likes playing 2 ball handlers together anyway.

[HJS]

I see our roster looking something like this:
C: Clifford/Caudill
PF: Anderson/?
SF: ?/Heckmann/Odio
SG: Jackson/Rahon
PG: Daniels/Hanlan/Moton

Basically, we have Daniels who has proven that he can hang against big time competition and Hanlan who shows promise. Not to mention we have Moton, whose game has improved and provides additional depth and defense. Orris is good, but I have a hard time believing he will be better than Daniels or Hanlan. Even if he was, I still don't think it is worth taking him when that would leave only two scholarship spots to fill some very big gaps at the forward position. Basically we don't have a SF (while Heckmann may end up being a solid 3 player, he has yet to be tested against quality competition). Furthermore, we have absolutely no backup to Anderson.

Even if Orris could play SG, I like the combo of Jackson/Rahon at SG as it is.

Do we need a 3 and a 4? Desperately.
But, we aren't talking about Orris vs Taylor/Tebbutt. We are talking about Orris vs. Gill vs. white-standstill-3pt-specialist.
It appears to me that the staff was hoping to take Orris' commitment before Hanlan even visited. I think that says something about his ability. If Hanlan is as good as everyone believes, I see no reason why we wouldn't want another player of his quality in the program.
Bottomline here is that, more important than position, we need talent. I have no confidence that any 3/4 we land at this date will be able to supersede Heckmann, Caudill or even Odio. While I have all the confidence in the world that Orris could see quality minutes at 1 or 2 early in his tenure.

[Brablc]

I see our roster looking something like this:
C: Clifford/Caudill
PF: Anderson/?
SF: ?/Heckmann/Odio
SG: Jackson/Rahon
PG: Daniels/Hanlan/Moton

Basically, we have Daniels who has proven that he can hang against big time competition and Hanlan who shows promise. Not to mention we have Moton, whose game has improved and provides additional depth and defense. Orris is good, but I have a hard time believing he will be better than Daniels or Hanlan. Even if he was, I still don't think it is worth taking him when that would leave only two scholarship spots to fill some very big gaps at the forward position. Basically we don't have a SF (while Heckmann may end up being a solid 3 player, he has yet to be tested against quality competition). Furthermore, we have absolutely no backup to Anderson.

Even if Orris could play SG, I like the combo of Jackson/Rahon at SG as it is.

Do we need a 3 and a 4? Desperately.
But, we aren't talking about Orris vs Taylor/Tebbutt. We are talking about Orris vs. Gill vs. white-standstill-3pt-specialist.
It appears to me that the staff was hoping to take Orris' commitment before Hanlan even visited. I think that says something about his ability. If Hanlan is as good as everyone believes, I see no reason why we wouldn't want another player of his quality in the program.
Bottomline here is that, more important than position, we need talent. I have no confidence that any 3/4 we land at this date will be able to supersede Heckmann, Caudill or even Odio. While I have all the confidence in the world that Orris could see quality minutes at 1 or 2 early in his tenure.

Do you think this means Donahue wants to go more 3 guard lineups? Doesn't seem like he's too concerned with Rebounding.

[HJS]

Do you think this means Donahue wants to go more 3 guard lineups? Doesn't seem like he's too concerned with Rebounding.

I have no idea. But there does seem to be a troubling lack of urgency on that front. My point is simply that, since there are no options left that can fill the recruitig void, I'd opt for pure talent over a low major who just so happens to be taller than 6'5".

[Shaddix]

I see our roster looking something like this:
C: Clifford/Caudill
PF: Anderson/?
SF: ?/Heckmann/Odio
SG: Jackson/Rahon
PG: Daniels/Hanlan/Moton

Basically, we have Daniels who has proven that he can hang against big time competition and Hanlan who shows promise. Not to mention we have Moton, whose game has improved and provides additional depth and defense. Orris is good, but I have a hard time believing he will be better than Daniels or Hanlan. Even if he was, I still don't think it is worth taking him when that would leave only two scholarship spots to fill some very big gaps at the forward position. Basically we don't have a SF (while Heckmann may end up being a solid 3 player, he has yet to be tested against quality competition). Furthermore, we have absolutely no backup to Anderson.

Even if Orris could play SG, I like the combo of Jackson/Rahon at SG as it is.

Do we need a 3 and a 4? Desperately.
But, we aren't talking about Orris vs Taylor/Tebbutt. We are talking about Orris vs. Gill vs. white-standstill-3pt-specialist.
It appears to me that the staff was hoping to take Orris' commitment before Hanlan even visited. I think that says something about his ability. If Hanlan is as good as everyone believes, I see no reason why we wouldn't want another player of his quality in the program.
Bottomline here is that, more important than position, we need talent. I have no confidence that any 3/4 we land at this date will be able to supersede Heckmann, Caudill or even Odio. While I have all the confidence in the world that Orris could see quality minutes at 1 or 2 early in his tenure.

Do you think this means Donahue wants to go more 3 guard lineups? Doesn't seem like he's too concerned with Rebounding.

Donahue does seem to be targeting a lot of guards, which is strange. He must believe that Caudill will be ready to make an impact off the bench next year.

[eepstein0]

Do you think this means Donahue wants to go more 3 guard lineups? Doesn't seem like he's too concerned with Rebounding.

I have no idea. But there does seem to be a troubling lack of urgency on that front. My point is simply that, since there are no options left that can fill the recruitig void, I'd opt for pure talent over a low major who just so happens to be taller than 6'5".

I think we'll be playing a ton of 3 guard lineups.

[eepstein0]

Remember Bruce Weber is now at K St. I'd guess he ends up there.

[BCEaglesFan]

TOS is reporting that Dragicevich went with his parents to BC and it went well and Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

[Shaddix]

TOS is reporting that Dragicevich went with his parents to BC and it went well and Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

I didn't know that he was 6'7 210. That's great height.

[eepstein0]

TOS is reporting that Dragicevich went with his parents to BC and it went well and Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

I didn't know that he was 6'7 210. That's great height.

If you're talking about Dragicevich, he doesn't use his size at all except to launch 3s.

[Nate2651]

Donahue has said in multiple interviews that he wants to use a 3 guard lineup. This is nothing new

[Shaddix]

TOS is reporting that Dragicevich went with his parents to BC and it went well and Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

I didn't know that he was 6'7 210. That's great height.

If you're talking about Dragicevich, he doesn't use his size at all except to launch 3s.

He used his size in his high school highlight tapes, a fresh start could be good.

[RedBaron67]

Remember Bruce Weber is now at K St. I'd guess he ends up there.

When I wrote so optimistically about BC's chance of signing Orris, I didn't know that K-State had hired Weber. Orris flew there for an official visit on Saturday, the day after he got his release from Illinois. His AAU coach says it isn't a done deal, but it doesn't look good. Apparently Orris' relationship with Weber had a lot to do with his decommitting from Illinois, so he'll probably follow him to Manhattan unless he finds something to positively dislike about the K-State situation.

[eepstein0]

TOS is reporting that Dragicevich went with his parents to BC and it went well and Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

I didn't know that he was 6'7 210. That's great height.

If you're talking about Dragicevich, he doesn't use his size at all except to launch 3s.

He used his size in his high school highlight tapes, a fresh start could be good.

He averaged precisely 1.8 rebounds per game in 20 minutes played.

[Shaddix]

TOS is reporting that Dragicevich went with his parents to BC and it went well and Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

I didn't know that he was 6'7 210. That's great height.

If you're talking about Dragicevich, he doesn't use his size at all except to launch 3s.

He used his size in his high school highlight tapes, a fresh start could be good.

He averaged precisely 1.8 rebounds per game in 20 minutes played.

With Notre Dame....

[eepstein0]

TOS is reporting that Dragicevich went with his parents to BC and it went well and Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

I didn't know that he was 6'7 210. That's great height.

If you're talking about Dragicevich, he doesn't use his size at all except to launch 3s.

He used his size in his high school highlight tapes, a fresh start could be good.

He averaged precisely 1.8 rebounds per game in 20 minutes played.

With Notre Dame....

I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I don't want him here. His skill set is redundant, we already have plenty of guys that stand around the perimeter and chuck 3's. He'll contribute nothing as a rebounder or a shot creator.

[RedBaron67]

TOS is reporting that Dragicevich went with his parents to BC and it went well and Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

I didn't know that he was 6'7 210. That's great height.

If you're talking about Dragicevich, he doesn't use his size at all except to launch 3s.

He used his size in his high school highlight tapes, a fresh start could be good.

He averaged precisely 1.8 rebounds per game in 20 minutes played.

With Notre Dame....

I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I don't want him here. His skill set is redundant, we already have plenty of guys that stand around the perimeter and chuck 3's. He'll contribute nothing as a rebounder or a shot creator.

It seems blatantly obvious that we need an inside banger, but Donahue seems infatuated with 3-point shooting. Perhaps he really expects Clifford to bulk up enough to play effectively inside, which I would rate an extreme long shot (say, behind the midcourt line).

[eagle9903]

BC has been progressively less successful in the ACC with players from nowhere and this year hit bottom. The whole scouting/recruiting subculture has its obnoxious side but pretty much gets things right, and ultimately there's no substitute for talent (which includes having one's head screwed on properly). I'm getting a bit weary of repeating it, but the plain fact is that BC needs better recruiting.

This is the kind of statement I think falls apart after some kind of dissection. The first sentence make an enormous factual leap without support (that the quality of recruits is less than it was previously) and then a causal leap (that such lack of success in recruiting has harmed results), but I think these are leaps a lot of BC fan message board posters are making right now.

BC has been progressively less successful in the ACC with players from nowhere and this year hit bottom.

No. BC has played in the ACC since the 2005-2006 season. Records(rough) below:

2005-06: 29-8, 13-5 ACC Best
2006-07: 21-12, 11-7 ACC down
2007-08: 15-17, 5-9 ACC down
2008-09: 23-12, 9-8 ACC up
2009-10: 16-16, 6-11 ACC down
2010-11: 22-13, 10-8 ACC up
2011-12: 9-22, 4-12 Way down

This does not show a progressively less successful result, I know that's not the whole point of that sentence, but it is not accurate and if it were the point of the post (which I believe is that recruiting has advanced so that there are less diamond in the rough recruits and therefore diamond in the rough recruiting is no longer an option) would be much more forceful. Of perhaps greater importance is that the failure of the BC class which bucks the historical players from nowhere recruiting strategy/necessity - the 2007 class - is arguably the cause of a coach being fired and was instrumental in the sub-.500 2007-08 (Rice, Oates, Blair, Spears and the 2007 class) and 2009-10 seasons (Jackson, Trap, Roche and the 2007 class). Add to this the fact that the best player on the 2011-12 team was the Gatorade player of the year in Cali., a 92 on ESPN and in no way a player from nowhere.

The whole scouting/recruiting subculture has its obnoxious side but pretty much gets things right

I don't accept this for Boston College basketball. I am adamant about this because the relative success and failure in the last 15 years have had zero correlation with recruiting experts. In addition to Boston College, which seems the most obvious example to use based on the forum, look at the success of mid-majors in the tournament. Recruiting services do a pretty good job for football and at the highest levels of basketball, but they miss an absolute ton.

I'm getting a bit weary of repeating it, but the plain fact is that BC needs better recruiting

Maybe the recruiting is inferior to what is needed, but it is not a plain fact. It is a extremely premature conclusion. I'm getting weary of pointing out the difference between the two. The most frustrating thing is every time another recruit signs elsewhere, another loss in the season occurred, or an individual player regressed or progressed a certain element of this board decided that such event indicated a sea change in direction of the program.

I've said this many, many times, but I readily concede I'd be more comfortable with a Joe Jones type helping recruiting. However, I disagree that such is necessary, and disagree further with those stating the results have been worse than previous results.

[HJS]

TOS is reporting that ... Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

Really??? That's surprising.

You literally took every name that any poster has mentioned in this thread. Nice work. To nitpick you have ... Tony Gill in the not offered category with potential walkon Joe Bramanti.

I don't know if Tony Gill has an offer. If Gill opts for some school on the West Coast, you will be the first to cry about Gill being the first group and ask for PROOF he had a commitable offer. The fact that you dismiss many players that staff met with and some that even visited BC just shows how clownshoes your subjectiveness is on this issue.

[eagle9903]

TOS is reporting that ... Gill, from what Hoff knows, scrimmaged and probably didn't get an offer as of now.

I'm guessing the Don wants him as walk-on.

Really??? That's surprising.

You literally took every name that any poster has mentioned in this thread. Nice work. To nitpick you have ... Tony Gill in the not offered category with potential walkon Joe Bramanti.

I don't know if Tony Gill has an offer. If Gill opts for some school on the West Coast, you will be the first to cry about Gill being the first group and ask for PROOF he had a commitable offer. The fact that you dismiss many players that staff met with and some that even visited BC just shows how clownshoes your subjectiveness is on this issue.

Ok. So does that make him a loss now?