Big East - Stick a fork in it

[BCWest]

Whether or not the Big East football conference continues to exist, it is really dead. What is left? 3 Conference USA converts, 1 Big East program that is 11 years old, and Rutgers.

Who has left:
Boston College, founding Big East member in football and basketball
Miami, founding Big East member in football
Pittsburgh, founding Big East member in football, basketball member since 82
Syracuse, founding Big East member in football and basketball
Virginia Tech, founding Big East football member

Remaining 5:
Cincy (2005 from CUSA)
Lousiville (2005 from CUSA)
Rutgers (1991 Inaugural Big East Football Member, full member in 1995), only school left from original Big East Football
South Florida (2005 from CUSA)
Uconn (2004 Football Member of Big East, 2000 D1)

Will the Big East remain a conference in football? It looks like it, but the Big East is dead. It is now - at best- a glorified Conf USA.

Who are they potentially adding?
Air Force - From Colorado, football only
Boise State - From Idaho, football only
Central Florida - Full Member
Navy - Football only member
Houston - From Texas, full member
SMU - From Texas, full member

Imagine the New New Big East in Football and the new facts about the conference:
More schools from Texas than founding Big East football members.
More schools who founded Conference USA than founded the BIg East.
More Military Academies than schools from New England.
Twice as many schools from Mountain and Central Time Zones as schools from New York, PA, New Jersey, and all of New England.
As many schools from Colorado and Idaho as the Northeast! (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, CT, MA, Rhode Island, New York, Pa,and New Jersey!)
More schools on NCAA Probation than schools from the Northeast.


Imagine the flavor of this Big East Bball Tourney in MSG and this flavor:
More schools from Texas than New York.
As many schools from Florida as New England.
More schools that received the Death Penalty than schools that founded Big East Football and Basketball.

The Big East died today. Big Country is born.

[bignick33]

[HJS]

Once again... I do not understand why Big East football is worth saving.

I honestly cannot comprehend how any team is better off in the realligned proposed-Big East than if they were in the 32 SuperMegaConference. The 32-team Big USA thing actually is somewhat entertaining and would provide a pretty exciting playoff scenario. It would be for FB only, meaning the Big East BB schools wouldn't have to worry about travelling to Texas and the RU's and UConn's wouldn't have to miss-out on MSG for BB. I'd also point out that a school like BSU may never recoup the money they will need to pay to get out of the MWC (potentially $22mm if BSU makes the BCS this year). Finally, the proposed 32-team Big USA would be assured an AQ because the BCS would then never have to worry about be exclusionary as almost 100 schools would technically have access (12+12+14+14+32+10).

[pick6pedro]

Big Country is born.

The good news is that it comes with a built in theme song and D list athlete rep

[bignick33]

Bryant Reeves Reference = HANSENPOST!! from Big Nick

[pick6pedro]

Big Country is born.

The good news is that it comes with a built in theme song and D list athlete rep

I never saw you look like this without a reason
Another promise fallen through, another season passes by you
They took the AQ away from our ol' buddy's place
And that's a desperate way to look for someone who is still a child
In the Big Country dreams stray from you
Like a Commish's voice fires the mountainside
STAY ALIVE!!!!

[HustlinOwl]

The Big East died today. Big Country is born.

You seem almost giddy.

[Eagles97]

Once again... I do not understand why Big East football is worth saving.

I honestly cannot comprehend how any team is better off in the realligned proposed-Big East than if they were in the 32 SuperMegaConference. The 32-team Big USA thing actually is somewhat entertaining and would provide a pretty exciting playoff scenario. It would be for FB only, meaning the Big East BB schools wouldn't have to worry about travelling to Texas and the RU's and UConn's wouldn't have to miss-out on MSG for BB. I'd also point out that a school like BSU may never recoup the money they will need to pay to get out of the MWC (potentially $22mm if BSU makes the BCS this year). Finally, the proposed 32-team Big USA would be assured an AQ because the BCS would then never have to worry about be exclusionary as almost 100 schools would technically have access (12+12+14+14+32+10).

Agreed, it makes absolutley no sense for the MWC or the Conference USA schools to move. It makes even less sense for the BE Hoops teams to be rolling along for the ride.

[HJS]

BTW... I talked to buddies who are grads from RU, Cuse and Louisville. The thing they don't like about the Big Country conference is their ability to recruit. They claim that it would be a tough sell telling a kid that you have to beat 31 other schools in order to get to the BCS.

And there lies their NBE bastardized thinking. To the NBE schools, they view the BCS AQ bid as the holy grail. So long as they have it, they are big time. They have this outstripped ideal that the BCS game is what brings instant credibility. As we have all discussed in the past, Bowls are generally meaningless exhibitions meant to reward well-travelling fanbases. The BCS isn't a reward for the best teams. BC with Matt Ryan finished 2007 in the top 10 and didn't get invited. Why? As I understand it, it was because GDF wouldn't guarantee a certain number of tickets. He was apparently afraid of a UConn-like shortfall appearing on the balance sheet. Christ, the whole concept of an AQ is based upon NOT having the best team in the game (because they would pick the team based on ranking instead of conference standing). Nonetheless, they could just look at their fellow-members to realize how meaningless the BCS is. How has UConn been doing since backing into the BCS game? Has Cincy or Louisville become dominant programs with their back-to-back invites?

The original idea about the AQ was that you can tell recruits "if we are the best team in the conference, we will go to the BCS." You didn't have to worry about being left out in the cold. However, with subsequent changes to the formulas, pretty much no great team is ever left out, as TCU and BSU has shown year-in and year-out. An AQ for a 32-team conference serves the same thing as BC being in a 16-team ACC with ND. Gonna be pretty freaking hard to win it all.

The ideal scenario for these NBE fools is to be in a conference with a bunch of crap teams... but having the conference keep AQ status. They think selling kids the chance of being the smartest kid on the short bus is very appealing. Marinatto (who actually was the smartest kid on the short bus when he was in school) believes this as well. It is this myopic thinking that has been the downfall of the league. Kids don't pick schools based upon easy access to a bowl game. If they did, USF would be beating the crap out of Florida and FSU for in-State recruits as USF has always had the much easier road to the BCS. Kids want to be in a conference where they play against elite opponents. They want the chance to shine against top competition. They want to be challenged. You are talking about kids who irrationally think they will be playing football on Sundays.

The best thing the NBE football schools could do is make decisions that would create the most DIFFICULT road to get to the BCS. At this point, there isn't a way to do it in the current entity. But, the great Britton Banowsky has come up with a way they can do it in his somewhat brilliant Big Country. If the FB schools continue to let Marinatto lead them down the current path of inviting Temple, Memphis, et al. They do it at their own peril... which will be losing their AQ status (and probably offering it to the highest rated team from the new BE and MWCUSA). That scenario is so incredibly worse for the NNBE. Of course, they won't realize it until it is too late... because that is what they are best at.

[apbc12]

Big Country is born.

The good news is that it comes with a built in theme song and D list athlete rep

I never saw you look like this without a reason
Another promise fallen through, another season passes by you
They took the AQ away from our ol' buddy's place
And that's a desperate way to look for someone who is still a child
In the Big Country dreams stray from you
Like a Commish's voice fires the mountainside
STAY ALIVE!!!!

I fucking love that song. That is all.

[hinghameagle]

HJS:

One important thing you are overlooking as the impact the AQ for BCS in terms of recruiting. If you are say Rutgers or UConn and you find yourself in a MAC like conference with no AQ bid, and you are recruiting agaisnt say BC and Pitt. Any recruiter from Pitt or BC worth their salt is going to piss all over the Uconn or Rutgers program to the recruit, labeling them a Mickey Mouse Program, who can go 11-0 and end up in a Boise bowl. Very tough to recruit out of a non AQ conference. It is important.

[ATLeagle]

BTW... I talked to buddies who are grads from RU, Cuse and Louisville. The thing they don't like about the Big Country conference is their ability to recruit. They claim that it would be a tough sell telling a kid that you have to beat 31 other schools in order to get to the BCS.

And there lies their NBE bastardized thinking. To the NBE schools, they view the BCS AQ bid as the holy grail. So long as they have it, they are big time. They have this outstripped ideal that the BCS game is what brings instant credibility. As we have all discussed in the past, Bowls are generally meaningless exhibitions meant to reward well-travelling fanbases. The BCS isn't a reward for the best teams. BC with Matt Ryan finished 2007 in the top 10 and didn't get invited. Why? As I understand it, it was because GDF wouldn't guarantee a certain number of tickets. He was apparently afraid of a UConn-like shortfall appearing on the balance sheet. Christ, the whole concept of an AQ is based upon NOT having the best team in the game (because they would pick the team based on ranking instead of conference standing). Nonetheless, they could just look at their fellow-members to realize how meaningless the BCS is. How has UConn been doing since backing into the BCS game? Has Cincy or Louisville become dominant programs with their back-to-back invites?

The original idea about the AQ was that you can tell recruits "if we are the best team in the conference, we will go to the BCS." You didn't have to worry about being left out in the cold. However, with subsequent changes to the formulas, pretty much no great team is ever left out, as TCU and BSU has shown year-in and year-out. An AQ for a 32-team conference serves the same thing as BC being in a 16-team ACC with ND. Gonna be pretty freaking hard to win it all.

The ideal scenario for these NBE fools is to be in a conference with a bunch of crap teams... but having the conference keep AQ status. They think selling kids the chance of being the smartest kid on the short bus is very appealing. Marinatto (who actually was the smartest kid on the short bus when he was in school) believes this as well. It is this myopic thinking that has been the downfall of the league. Kids don't pick schools based upon easy access to a bowl game. If they did, USF would be beating the crap out of Florida and FSU for in-State recruits as USF has always had the much easier road to the BCS. Kids want to be in a conference where they play against elite opponents. They want the chance to shine against top competition. They want to be challenged. You are talking about kids who irrationally think they will be playing football on Sundays.

The best thing the NBE football schools could do is make decisions that would create the most DIFFICULT road to get to the BCS. At this point, there isn't a way to do it in the current entity. But, the great Britton Banowsky has come up with a way they can do it in his somewhat brilliant Big Country. If the FB schools continue to let Marinatto lead them down the current path of inviting Temple, Memphis, et al. They do it at their own peril... which will be losing their AQ status (and probably offering it to the highest rated team from the new BE and MWCUSA). That scenario is so incredibly worse for the NNBE. Of course, they won't realize it until it is too late... because that is what they are best at.

We didn't get into a BCS bowl because we had three loses. We didn't get into the Peach Bowl because we couldn't commit to 10k tickets. We didn't get into the Gator because we brought no one to the ACCCG.

[BCWest]

The issue for the Big East will come down to money. ESPN is not going to pay $125 million per year for the BCS games to have the Big East get an AQ bid. Uconn vs Oklahoma was a disaster for them. Having said that, if ESPN or Fox or whoever is the winning bidder believes that all the schools who could get in as an at large are in the Big East, then they have consolidated a spot (the old Big East AQ with whoever is the hot team). But will that be the case?

04-05: Utah
06-07: BSU
07-08: Hawaii
08-09: Utah
09-10: TCU, BSU was selected as an at large
10-11: TCU

Utah is now in Pac12, TCU in Big 12, BSU would be in Big East. If the Big East offers the schools they are talking about, that takes a lot of the at large potential teams off the table. BYU would still be out there. Maybe you could argue for Fresno State, Southern Miss, etc., but you have most of the schools. If BYU was offered in football only to BE and accepted, who knows. So they might keep the AQ based on the fact it is politically the easiest thing for the other conferences to do. But the next easiest thing to do is just modify the At Large auto qualification, and pull the Big East bid.

[bcaddict]

Even tho the B12 didn't expand to 12 (yet), now that the destruction of essentially all of the founding members of the BE is official, we have the scenario whereby ND must choose. In light of that, the next big move will be whatever the bball-only schools choose to do. Do they form their own conference, and if so, is that more attractive to ND than whatever dogshit the BE cobbles together in the next few weeks?

[BCWest]

Even tho the B12 didn't expand to 12 (yet), now that the destruction of essentially all of the founding members of the BE is official, we have the scenario whereby ND must choose. In light of that, the next big move will be whatever the bball-only schools choose to do. Do they form their own conference, and if so, is that more attractive to ND than whatever dogshit the BE cobbles together in the next few weeks?

Bball only schools: Not enough of them field enough of NDs sports. Plus, that is not a decent, let alone good conference for your sports teams. ND can join and hide there, but you are really throwing your Olympic sports under the bus.

Big East stays together, plus adds the list discussed: ND can hang in that conference. But is this the conference ND wants for BBall and its other sports? Houston, UCF? Again, ND can clearly stick in the conference, but that is an awful step down from where they can be.

Big 12: It sounds like they can join as non football. Quality athletics. But culturally not in line with ND at all. Locations do not support ND alums and exposure at all.

BIg Ten: Only as a full member ending "independence" in football. Great upside for Olympic sports and good travel. Ends national schedule for football, competing against almost entirely state schools, all sports are regionalized. Preserves annual games with Purdue, MSU, and Michigan.

ACC: Only as a full member and ends football independence. More travel than Big Ten for Olympic sports, but as good if not better for many Olympic sports. Preserves national scheduling. Competing against a large number of private schools and public ivies. Culturally a getter fit.


Sounds to me like none of the 5 options will sound good to Swarbrick and Father Jenkins.

[MilitantEagle]

Even tho the B12 didn't expand to 12 (yet), now that the destruction of essentially all of the founding members of the BE is official, we have the scenario whereby ND must choose. In light of that, the next big move will be whatever the bball-only schools choose to do. Do they form their own conference, and if so, is that more attractive to ND than whatever dogshit the BE cobbles together in the next few weeks?

Bball only schools: Not enough of them field enough of NDs sports. Plus, that is not a decent, let alone good conference for your sports teams. ND can join and hide there, but you are really throwing your Olympic sports under the bus.

Big East stays together, plus adds the list discussed: ND can hang in that conference. But is this the conference ND wants for BBall and its other sports? Houston, UCF? Again, ND can clearly stick in the conference, but that is an awful step down from where they can be.

Big 12: It sounds like they can join as non football. Quality athletics. But culturally not in line with ND at all. Locations do not support ND alums and exposure at all.

BIg Ten: Only as a full member ending "independence" in football. Great upside for Olympic sports and good travel. Ends national schedule for football, competing against almost entirely state schools, all sports are regionalized. Preserves annual games with Purdue, MSU, and Michigan.

ACC: Only as a full member and ends football independence. More travel than Big Ten for Olympic sports, but as good if not better for many Olympic sports. Preserves national scheduling. Competing against a large number of private schools and public ivies. Culturally a getter fit.


Sounds to me like none of the 5 options will sound good to Swarbrick and Father Jenkins.

The Bball only schools are, for the most part, terrible. Overrated, in my opinion. Marquette, DePaul, St. John's, Providence, Villanova, Seton Hall, and Georgetown. Aside from GTown, none of those schools compare to ND academically. And of those schools only Nova and GTown would generate much on campus buzz in terms of competition on the court. Given their hatred for B1G schools, the ACC is their best option. Just join and be done with it.

[weinerdog]

... BC with Matt Ryan finished 2007 in the top 10 and didn't get invited. Why? As I understand it, it was because GDF wouldn't guarantee a certain number of tickets...

not to let facts get in the way of all of homojs' sources but i think the real reason may have had something to do with the #14 ranking and the offerings of only 8 slots

2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
...
2011, Top 5 in Massachusetts!



*sigh*

[31southst]

Has ND ever said anything about protecting their Olympic sports? My assumption has always been ND will throw them under the bus until it is literally not an option, so I think they'll either go nnbe or b12

[HJS]

HJS:

One important thing you are overlooking as the impact the AQ for BCS in terms of recruiting. If you are say Rutgers or UConn and you find yourself in a MAC like conference with no AQ bid, and you are recruiting agaisnt say BC and Pitt. Any recruiter from Pitt or BC worth their salt is going to piss all over the Uconn or Rutgers program to the recruit, labeling them a Mickey Mouse Program, who can go 11-0 and end up in a Boise bowl. Very tough to recruit out of a non AQ conference. It is important.

I believe that no matter what happens, the AQ is gone from the Big East. I think the BCS will simply keep an annual bid available for the highest ranked team NOT in the Big 5 conferences. This guarantees access to the BSUs of the world but will prevent something that happened last year where three BCS teams were not wanted TCU, BSU and UConn. I think the Big Country idea pretty much gets you to the same point. I don't believe that ESPN will risk giving an AQ to whatever the new Big East looks like because there is no telling what other school will rise up. 10 years ago, no one would've expected BSU to be a yearly top 5 team. 10 years from now it could be Southern Miss or Fresno or even the Vandals of Idaho. The simplest thing to do is just hold the old Big East AQ open for the rest of the programs.

[Walsh601]

So Luck confirmed WVU is leaving the BE on July of next year. So why the f are Syracuse and Pitt being made to wait 27 months?

[HJS]

Been thinking the same thing. WTF is that all about? Marinatto is worse than Tranghese... if that is even possible.

[BCWest]

Has ND ever said anything about protecting their Olympic sports? My assumption has always been ND will throw them under the bus until it is literally not an option, so I think they'll either go nnbe or b12

I think people would be surprised at what Father Jenkins cares about. We are talking about sports where the Big East will not field enough teams.

[BCWest]

So Luck confirmed WVU is leaving the BE on July of next year. So why the f are Syracuse and Pitt being made to wait 27 months?

What you are going to hear from WV, and eventually Syracuse and Pitt is the departure timing is all just a matter of money. They can't stop a team from going to another conference, all they can do is demand compensation.

[claver2010]

From Yukon idiots:

I will say it again. This whole process is going to end with some very ugly litigation

[hansen]

From Yukon idiots:

I will say it again. This whole process is going to end with some very ugly litigation

sUeCONN

[weinerdog]

Has ND ever said anything about protecting their Olympic sports? My assumption has always been ND will throw them under the bus until it is literally not an option, so I think they'll either go nnbe or b12

I think people would be surprised at what Father Jenkins cares about. We are talking about sports where the Big East will not field enough teams.

Buzkashi?

[Oliver Closeoff]

The Big East is dead because now the conference is looking at a Conference USA like TV contract and sharing of its BCS bid with the Mt West at best. It wouldn't shock me to see Cincy and Louisville going to the Big 12 in near future. Let the Tuesday, Wednesday and early morning crap BE football games begin!

[hansen]

The Big East is dead because now the conference is looking at a Conference USA like TV contract and sharing of its BCS bid with the Mt West at best. It wouldn't shock me to see Cincy and Louisville going to the Big 12 in near future. Let the Tuesday, Wednesday and early morning crap BE football games begin!

this

[rktbrkr]

NBE has always been a mess - the withering carcass of Northeast football grafted to a northeast catholic college basketball conference (PC couldn't even afford to keep a baseball team!) which keeps casting it's net farther and farther to try and retain an automatic bid, pathetic.

Whats funny is that state taxpayers in NJ and CT gifted their state Us with stadia that will be empty

Rather than fold the FB part of the NBE I think they're just going to let it wither with the basketball schools collecting the exit fees (maybe there's a no penalty subclause that lets the departees leave without penalty if NBE loses their AQ status? That would make sense.

PS The first shots have been fired in Congress (L'Ville vs WVU) and even the halftime talking heads have been knocking the crass materialism.

ND is in an interesting situation,ACC is a better fit but B10 is better geographic and rivals fit. The expanded ACC has a TV market base about 2X the B10 which would get worse if PSU went to the ACC. ND would be in the upper rungs of ACC for FB but middle of the pack in B10.

[HustlinOwl]

ND would be in the upper rungs of ACC for FB but middle of the pack in B10.

This is what's been in the back of my mind when it comes to ND. I think they could regularly challenge for the ACC championship. The B12 and B1G, not so much.

It is all about the money and winning helps a lot in this regard.