Cliff Lee to Philly?

[ryrob]

Reports are flying around that Phillies are right in the mix of things for Lee. Rumors are that he'll sign with Philly if they come anywhere close to matching the Yankees offer, thus appeasing the MLBPA as much as possible. Might very well be the best rotation in the last 50 years if it happens.

[ryrob]

Reports are flying around that Phillies are right in the mix of things for Lee. Rumors are that he'll sign with Philly if they come anywhere close to matching the Yankees offer, thus appeasing the MLBPA as much as possible. Might very well be the best rotation in the last 50 years if it happens.

Rangers beat reporter says done deal:

http://trsullivan.mlblogs.com/archives/ ... ladel.html

[branchinator]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

[twballgame9]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

[ryrob]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

[twballgame9]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

[BCEagle74]

Red Sox and Phillies have to be the favorites.

Replacing Werth's bat may be an issue?

White Sox, Rangers in weak West and Yankees if they get some arms or old ones come back?

[BCEagle74]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Superb list there 9. The Phillies may be the historical one----- in a few seasons of results.

Nice R-L-R-L.... Blanton and Kendrick are Ok 3.5-4-5 types. Philly is a hitter park too.

Phillie outfield power is weak. I like what the Red Sox have done and White Sox too. Not to many guys that can bomb 35.

[PhillyandBCEagles]

Unbelievable. NO ONE saw this coming.

Phils OF power isn't what you'd like for a WS contender but Victorino has decent power and having Utley at 2B and Ruiz at C makes up for it.

[Bryn Mawr Eagle]

Christmas came a week and a half early in Philadelphia.

Lee gave up $34 million to come here. He wanted to be in Philadelphia. He'd make W.C. Fields proud.

Mybe those New York fans who spit on his wife had something to do with this decision? Thanks you morons, way to make us Philly fans look classy.

This is f'ing unbelievable.

[cvilleagle]

Yeah, Phillies have to be the favorite now. Amazing to me how they managed to keep their name out of it until the very end.

[eagle9903]

Cliff Lee, Cy Young winner.

Roy Halladay, two-time Cy Young winner.

Roy Oswalt, MVP of the 2005 National League Championship Series.

Cole Hamels, MVP of the 2008 NLCS and World Series.

They have 13 All-Star Game appearances among them. Two lefties and two righties.

[EagleNYC]

Outstanding move for the Phils, the prohibitive favorites for the NL (again). Good for Cliff Lee.

Now with all the Braves comparisons, the question becomes whether the Phils will follow in the Braves footsteps and get their shxt pushed in annually by the AL, save for one shining season. It's all about the matchups in the series.

As far as the historical place of this rotation, I think you can only address that at the end of the season. Even looking at it now, however, I'm siding with Teddy; Oswalt and Hammels are not as good at 3, 4 as some might realize, in the context of the past 50 years. As far as I'm concerned, you have to look at the numbers of a staff in any given year and do it that way. In that regard, I'd guess that there are several staffs that put up great numbers that don't jump to mind simply because they lack the name brand.

Just a for instance (and I'm only using it because they are the best staff on my favorite team so I'm familar with the stats): the 1998 NYY with Wells, Cone, El Duque, Pettitte. The numbers (feel free to ignore wins if you wish) that they put up during a benchmark PED year are outstanding (other than Pettitte [104] they all had an ERA+ of 125 or better), WHIPs of 1.2 or lower (Pettitte's was 1.44), and they won the WS.

The argument that Roy/Lee are the best 1-2 of the past 50 years is probably a lot better, and more likely to play out, though topping Johnson/Shilling 2001 will be impressive.

[eagle9903]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

[bignick33]

The Globe is reporting that the Sox may be taking on Joe Blanton's contract in order to make the deal possible for the Phils. My question is, what the hell will the Sox do with him? The only upside I see is that he'll eat all the food in the clubhouse which will prevent certain teammates from getting fatter.

[bignick33]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

Your team just signed the biggest (literally) prize of the offseason for less than other teams offered. Cry me a river.

Edit: Also, see the post above. You should be thanking the Red Sox and their fans that'll likely have to watch that fat fuck Blanton for the next two years.

[eagle9903]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

Your team just signed the biggest (literally) prize of the offseason for less than other teams offered. Cry me a river.

Edit: Also, see the post above. You should be thanking the Red Sox and their fans that'll likely have to watch that fat fuck Blanton for the next two years.

I'm pretty happy right now. Thank you. Also I like Joe Blanton, he's been nothing but solid for the last two years and was excellent in the 08 WS run.

[EagleNYC]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

I'm not sure what this even means. He offered up several examples on a topic that is certainly open for debate: best staff of the past 50 years, in response to "anything else close," a very blunt statement. None of his examples were from the AL East. I think you could easily eclipse the Andre Williams thread with legitimate discussion on this topic.

[bignick33]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

I'm not sure what this even means. He offered up several examples on a topic that is certainly open for debate: best staff of the past 50 years, in response to "anything else close," a very blunt statement. None of his examples were from the AL East. I think you could easily eclipse the Andre Williams thread with legitimate discussion on this topic.

If you can see the Phillies' rotation, they can see you. If you can't see the Phillies' rotation, you may be only seconds away from death.

[TurdFerguson]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Santana, Niese, Pelfrey, Perez, Dickey...

[pick6pedro]

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

I'm not sure what this even means. He offered up several examples on a topic that is certainly open for debate: best staff of the past 50 years, in response to "anything else close," a very blunt statement. None of his examples were from the AL East. I think you could easily eclipse the Andre Williams thread with legitimate discussion on this topic.

I know it doesn't seem like they play in the AL East, but Orioles sure are. And yes, Teddy presented some great rotations there.

[eagle9903]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

I'm not sure what this even means. He offered up several examples on a topic that is certainly open for debate: best staff of the past 50 years, in response to "anything else close," a very blunt statement. None of his examples were from the AL East. I think you could easily eclipse the Andre Williams thread with legitimate discussion on this topic.

I said in the post above I agree that Ryrob's original post overstates the place of the Phillies rotation. I don't know why I quoted the other post, I do that sometimes. My point is general, and is that Sox and Yankees fans feel entitled to their places in the baseball hierarchy. When the order is potentially upset even slightly, I feel like I'm reading a bunch of Georgia fans explaining how much better D.J. Shockley is than Matt Ryan again.

[RegalBCeagle]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

I'm not sure what this even means. He offered up several examples on a topic that is certainly open for debate: best staff of the past 50 years, in response to "anything else close," a very blunt statement. None of his examples were from the AL East. I think you could easily eclipse the Andre Williams thread with legitimate discussion on this topic.

I said in the post above I agree that Ryrob's original post overstates the place of the Phillies rotation. I don't know why I quoted the other post, I do that sometimes. My point is general, and is that Sox and Yankees fans feel entitled to their places in the baseball hierarchy. When the order is potentially upset even slightly, I feel like I'm reading a bunch of Georgia fans explaining how much better D.J. Shockley is than Matt Ryan again.

I feel like I'm reading an ND website as you win the National Championships Of Recruiting Rankings and Preseason Polls. Glad to see the Phils take Lee instead of the Yanks. Rotation looks good on paper. We all forget that the freakin' Giants won the World Series .... at least I think they did...

[eagle9903]

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

I'm not sure what this even means. He offered up several examples on a topic that is certainly open for debate: best staff of the past 50 years, in response to "anything else close," a very blunt statement. None of his examples were from the AL East. I think you could easily eclipse the Andre Williams thread with legitimate discussion on this topic.

I know it doesn't seem like they play in the AL East, but Orioles sure are. And yes, Teddy presented some great rotations there.

You're Vandy. Ok, maybe my comparison was a little over the top.

[eagle9903]

So yeah, I was arguing with a friend from BC who was stubbornly saying how lester, buccholz, beckett, and lackey was still better, on paper, than Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Oswalt. I kind of conflated his stupid argument into this thread. Apologies to all.

[EagleNYC]

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Fans of AL East teams are strikingly similar to SEC fans.

I'm not sure what this even means. He offered up several examples on a topic that is certainly open for debate: best staff of the past 50 years, in response to "anything else close," a very blunt statement. None of his examples were from the AL East. I think you could easily eclipse the Andre Williams thread with legitimate discussion on this topic.

I know it doesn't seem like they play in the AL East, but Orioles sure are. And yes, Teddy presented some great rotations there.

You're Vandy. Ok, maybe my comparison was a little over the top.

Wow, epic fail on my part re: the birds. Mea culpa.

[ryrob]

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

That's a killer rotation. Thanks for playing, NL.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid good. Last 50 years is retarded, but it is certainly the best in the last few years.

Only competition is Braves rotation circa Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Neagle? Can you name anything else close to this?

Other than the fact that a lights out Kevin Millwood was also in that 98 Braves staff, your analysis of the Phillies would be right on if it were Oswalt of 5 years ago and Hamels were better than you think he is.

And yes, going back to 1960, I can come up with quite a few. Start with a staff that had Drysdale and Koufax and Osteen and Sutton, or the Orioles staff that had 4 20 game winners - Palmer, Dobson, McNally and Cuellar. Gooden, Fernandez, Aguilera, Ojeda and Darling. There are a few other Dodgers staffs and you could add the staff with Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (circa 93). The As had three, with Mulder, Zito and Hudson in their primes, Stewart, Welch, Moore and Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman.

I am sure I could come up with a few more.

Good points, I concede that my statement was hyperbole. Are you actually historylesson?

[bignick33]

Jayson Stark, who was the first to speculate that the Phillies were the "mystery team," just said on EEI that he doesn't think Joe Blanton will go to the Sox. He doesn't think Blanton has the command to succeed in the AL East, and think he's better suited to the AL or NL West. He also cites the last time Blanton pitched in Fenway (Daniel Nava says hi). Plus, there's the obvious issue that there isn't much room on the Boston roster for him. Basically...he says that yesterday the Sox were open to doing anything that would keep Lee out of NY, but it might not be necessary.

On another note, I wonder if Roy will be pissed that that the Phils held a very hard-line on their rule that they don't offer contracts to pitchers that exceed three years during his negotiation with them.

[bignick33]

Dan Roche is also reporting that there is no deal in place for Blanton.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2010/12/14/r ... e-blanton/

[ryrob]

Dan Roche is also reporting that there is no deal in place for Blanton.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2010/12/14/r ... e-blanton/

I actually like Blanton as s serviceable starter and think he would be a fine #5, but I also have no problem with a salary dump. We still need some bullpen and bench help.