flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Stealing this from someone else but he was Charlie Finley with more money and without a donkey. Love how the Yankee dynasty was formed when he was suspended from baseball.
flyingelvii {l Wrote}:No one's hating on that. Just don't attribute it to Steinbrenner in any respect.
EagleNYC {l Wrote}:I laugh at the notion that the championship Yankees of 1996-2000 were predicated upon big money. Though the payrolls were certainly at or near the top each year, it was the 2001- present era that saw the real disparity (and only a single championship). Those late 1990's teams were staffed with homegrown players throughout the roster, with a smattering of free agent signees and trade acquisitions. Who is the big free agent signee? Jimmy Key? Take a look at the $ spent just extending homegrown players (through arbitration and contract extensions). Hate on, but it's true.
branchinator {l Wrote}:The Yankees and Red Sox pump more money into their farm systems than anyone else. They can pay a 1st round talent who falls to the 6th round due to signability reasons the first round money that he's looking for. If that player makes it to the big leagues, should they be congratulated for building a winner through the farm? Sure, technically that's correct, but the FA market isn't the only area where the Yankees/Red Sox have a distinct advantage over everyone else.
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:branchinator {l Wrote}:The Yankees and Red Sox pump more money into their farm systems than anyone else. They can pay a 1st round talent who falls to the 6th round due to signability reasons the first round money that he's looking for. If that player makes it to the big leagues, should they be congratulated for building a winner through the farm? Sure, technically that's correct, but the FA market isn't the only area where the Yankees/Red Sox have a distinct advantage over everyone else.
+1. The Royals can't go handing out $5 mil bonuses, which is the reason baseball needs a rookie salary structure similar to the NBA.
*Cue '74 calling me a communist or something*
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:EagleNYC {l Wrote}:I laugh at the notion that the championship Yankees of 1996-2000 were predicated upon big money. Though the payrolls were certainly at or near the top each year, it was the 2001- present era that saw the real disparity (and only a single championship). Those late 1990's teams were staffed with homegrown players throughout the roster, with a smattering of free agent signees and trade acquisitions. Who is the big free agent signee? Jimmy Key? Take a look at the $ spent just extending homegrown players (through arbitration and contract extensions). Hate on, but it's true.
That's like saying the Red Sox of the past 5 years didn't actually spend that much money, they just brought up home grown guys like Pedroia, Youk, Lester, Papelbon and now Buchholz and Bard. It is kind of dumb. Clemens, Cone, huge cash foreign signings Matsui, Irabu and O. Hernandez, Knobloch, Justice, Canseco, Gooden, Polonia, Lilly, Wetteland, Rogers, Boggs, Raines, Strawberry, Fielder, Sierra, Wells, Whiten, Incaviglia, Chili Davis.
They had a core group of guys, but they won because they threw a lot of money around, especially at starting pitchers Cone, Wells and Clemens.
EagleNYC {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:EagleNYC {l Wrote}:I laugh at the notion that the championship Yankees of 1996-2000 were predicated upon big money. Though the payrolls were certainly at or near the top each year, it was the 2001- present era that saw the real disparity (and only a single championship). Those late 1990's teams were staffed with homegrown players throughout the roster, with a smattering of free agent signees and trade acquisitions. Who is the big free agent signee? Jimmy Key? Take a look at the $ spent just extending homegrown players (through arbitration and contract extensions). Hate on, but it's true.
That's like saying the Red Sox of the past 5 years didn't actually spend that much money, they just brought up home grown guys like Pedroia, Youk, Lester, Papelbon and now Buchholz and Bard. It is kind of dumb. Clemens, Cone, huge cash foreign signings Matsui, Irabu and O. Hernandez, Knobloch, Justice, Canseco, Gooden, Polonia, Lilly, Wetteland, Rogers, Boggs, Raines, Strawberry, Fielder, Sierra, Wells, Whiten, Incaviglia, Chili Davis.
They had a core group of guys, but they won because they threw a lot of money around, especially at starting pitchers Cone, Wells and Clemens.
It's two distinct thoughts: the first is that it is (if there is such a thing a morals in baseball) more acceptable to spend $ to keep your own players together. In line with this, I seem to recall some rather impressive arbitration awards that either were actually granted or were avoided by contract extensions to preserve good will. I really don't think anyone who plays the money card is going to fault the Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Bernie Williams signings. So yes, I agree with you that this follows with the Red Sox- in basketball, it is expressly encouraged.
As far as your free agent analysis, I'm game. Keep in mind I expressly limited my original argument to 1996 to 2000.
Clemens: (1999-2000) acquired via trade for David Wells. Wells was among the best pitchers in baseball making a hefty salary. Clemens went 14-10 in 1999 and 13-8 in 2000. He was hit or miss in the post season.
Cone: (1996-2000) Total hired gun, on team at all times . That's one.
Matsui: did not play.
Irabu: Seriously?
El Duque: (1998-2000) Free agent signing, salary was $2 million per year.
Knobloch: (1998-2000) acquired via trade, but a highly paid 2B no doubt.
Justice: (2000) acquired via trade- played 78 games with the 2000 team. This was a rental.
Canseco: (2000) acquired after trade deadline via waivers. Zero contribution.
Gooden: (1996) scrap heap signing that no one wanted.
Polonia: did not play
Lilly: was Sept. call up in 2000.
Wetteland: (1996) free agent signee. Fits the bill.
Rogers: (1996) free agent signee. Hardly big money, worst pitcher on the staff.
Boggs: (1996) free agent signee. Not that well paid
Raines: (1996-1998) free agent starter in 1996, bench thereafter. $2 million and less per year.
Strawberry: (1996-1999) total reclamation project. Salary under $1 million each year.
Fielder: (1996)- trade deadline acquisition.
Sierra: did not play
Wells: (1998)- free agent signee. Fits the bill.
Whiten- did not play
Incaviglia: did not play
Chili Davis: (1998-1999) free agent signee, played 35 games for 1998 team.
There were some free agent signings, to be sure, but these were not teams loaded with year after year of top free agents (like 2001 and beyond).
EagleNYC {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:EagleNYC {l Wrote}:I laugh at the notion that the championship Yankees of 1996-2000 were predicated upon big money. Though the payrolls were certainly at or near the top each year, it was the 2001- present era that saw the real disparity (and only a single championship). Those late 1990's teams were staffed with homegrown players throughout the roster, with a smattering of free agent signees and trade acquisitions. Who is the big free agent signee? Jimmy Key? Take a look at the $ spent just extending homegrown players (through arbitration and contract extensions). Hate on, but it's true.
That's like saying the Red Sox of the past 5 years didn't actually spend that much money, they just brought up home grown guys like Pedroia, Youk, Lester, Papelbon and now Buchholz and Bard. It is kind of dumb. Clemens, Cone, huge cash foreign signings Matsui, Irabu and O. Hernandez, Knobloch, Justice, Canseco, Gooden, Polonia, Lilly, Wetteland, Rogers, Boggs, Raines, Strawberry, Fielder, Sierra, Wells, Whiten, Incaviglia, Chili Davis.
They had a core group of guys, but they won because they threw a lot of money around, especially at starting pitchers Cone, Wells and Clemens.
It's two distinct thoughts: the first is that it is (if there is such a thing a morals in baseball) more acceptable to spend $ to keep your own players together. In line with this, I seem to recall some rather impressive arbitration awards that either were actually granted or were avoided by contract extensions to preserve good will. I really don't think anyone who plays the money card is going to fault the Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Bernie Williams signings. So yes, I agree with you that this follows with the Red Sox- in basketball, it is expressly encouraged.
As far as your free agent analysis, I'm game. Keep in mind I expressly limited my original argument to 1996 to 2000.
Clemens: (1999-2000) acquired via trade for David Wells. Wells was among the best pitchers in baseball making a hefty salary. Clemens went 14-10 in 1999 and 13-8 in 2000. He was hit or miss in the post season.
Cone: (1996-2000) Total hired gun, on team at all times . That's one.
Matsui: did not play.
Irabu: Seriously?
El Duque: (1998-2000) Free agent signing, salary was $2 million per year.
Knobloch: (1998-2000) acquired via trade, but a highly paid 2B no doubt.
Justice: (2000) acquired via trade- played 78 games with the 2000 team. This was a rental.
Canseco: (2000) acquired after trade deadline via waivers. Zero contribution.
Gooden: (1996) scrap heap signing that no one wanted.
Polonia: did not play
Lilly: was Sept. call up in 2000.
Wetteland: (1996) free agent signee. Fits the bill.
Rogers: (1996) free agent signee. Hardly big money, worst pitcher on the staff.
Boggs: (1996) free agent signee. Not that well paid
Raines: (1996-1998) free agent starter in 1996, bench thereafter. $2 million and less per year.
Strawberry: (1996-1999) total reclamation project. Salary under $1 million each year.
Fielder: (1996)- trade deadline acquisition.
Sierra: did not play
Wells: (1998)- free agent signee. Fits the bill.
Whiten- did not play
Incaviglia: did not play
Chili Davis: (1998-1999) free agent signee, played 35 games for 1998 team.
There were some free agent signings, to be sure, but these were not teams loaded with year after year of top free agents (like 2001 and beyond).
BigPete {l Wrote}:EagleNYC {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:EagleNYC {l Wrote}:I laugh at the notion that the championship Yankees of 1996-2000 were predicated upon big money. Though the payrolls were certainly at or near the top each year, it was the 2001- present era that saw the real disparity (and only a single championship). Those late 1990's teams were staffed with homegrown players throughout the roster, with a smattering of free agent signees and trade acquisitions. Who is the big free agent signee? Jimmy Key? Take a look at the $ spent just extending homegrown players (through arbitration and contract extensions). Hate on, but it's true.
That's like saying the Red Sox of the past 5 years didn't actually spend that much money, they just brought up home grown guys like Pedroia, Youk, Lester, Papelbon and now Buchholz and Bard. It is kind of dumb. Clemens, Cone, huge cash foreign signings Matsui, Irabu and O. Hernandez, Knobloch, Justice, Canseco, Gooden, Polonia, Lilly, Wetteland, Rogers, Boggs, Raines, Strawberry, Fielder, Sierra, Wells, Whiten, Incaviglia, Chili Davis.
They had a core group of guys, but they won because they threw a lot of money around, especially at starting pitchers Cone, Wells and Clemens.
It's two distinct thoughts: the first is that it is (if there is such a thing a morals in baseball) more acceptable to spend $ to keep your own players together. In line with this, I seem to recall some rather impressive arbitration awards that either were actually granted or were avoided by contract extensions to preserve good will. I really don't think anyone who plays the money card is going to fault the Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Bernie Williams signings. So yes, I agree with you that this follows with the Red Sox- in basketball, it is expressly encouraged.
As far as your free agent analysis, I'm game. Keep in mind I expressly limited my original argument to 1996 to 2000.
Clemens: (1999-2000) acquired via trade for David Wells. Wells was among the best pitchers in baseball making a hefty salary. Clemens went 14-10 in 1999 and 13-8 in 2000. He was hit or miss in the post season.
Cone: (1996-2000) Total hired gun, on team at all times . That's one.
Matsui: did not play.
Irabu: Seriously?
El Duque: (1998-2000) Free agent signing, salary was $2 million per year.
Knobloch: (1998-2000) acquired via trade, but a highly paid 2B no doubt.
Justice: (2000) acquired via trade- played 78 games with the 2000 team. This was a rental.
Canseco: (2000) acquired after trade deadline via waivers. Zero contribution.
Gooden: (1996) scrap heap signing that no one wanted.
Polonia: did not play
Lilly: was Sept. call up in 2000.
Wetteland: (1996) free agent signee. Fits the bill.
Rogers: (1996) free agent signee. Hardly big money, worst pitcher on the staff.
Boggs: (1996) free agent signee. Not that well paid
Raines: (1996-1998) free agent starter in 1996, bench thereafter. $2 million and less per year.
Strawberry: (1996-1999) total reclamation project. Salary under $1 million each year.
Fielder: (1996)- trade deadline acquisition.
Sierra: did not play
Wells: (1998)- free agent signee. Fits the bill.
Whiten- did not play
Incaviglia: did not play
Chili Davis: (1998-1999) free agent signee, played 35 games for 1998 team.
There were some free agent signings, to be sure, but these were not teams loaded with year after year of top free agents (like 2001 and beyond).
TW got pwn3d. Show a modicum of class you jealous grasping douchetard following the death of the greatest owner of the past 50 years.
RIP George, I hope they serve calzones in heaven infused with the carcasses of Red Sox fan abortions.
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:BigPete {l Wrote}:EagleNYC {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:EagleNYC {l Wrote}:I laugh at the notion that the championship Yankees of 1996-2000 were predicated upon big money. Though the payrolls were certainly at or near the top each year, it was the 2001- present era that saw the real disparity (and only a single championship). Those late 1990's teams were staffed with homegrown players throughout the roster, with a smattering of free agent signees and trade acquisitions. Who is the big free agent signee? Jimmy Key? Take a look at the $ spent just extending homegrown players (through arbitration and contract extensions). Hate on, but it's true.
That's like saying the Red Sox of the past 5 years didn't actually spend that much money, they just brought up home grown guys like Pedroia, Youk, Lester, Papelbon and now Buchholz and Bard. It is kind of dumb. Clemens, Cone, huge cash foreign signings Matsui, Irabu and O. Hernandez, Knobloch, Justice, Canseco, Gooden, Polonia, Lilly, Wetteland, Rogers, Boggs, Raines, Strawberry, Fielder, Sierra, Wells, Whiten, Incaviglia, Chili Davis.
They had a core group of guys, but they won because they threw a lot of money around, especially at starting pitchers Cone, Wells and Clemens.
It's two distinct thoughts: the first is that it is (if there is such a thing a morals in baseball) more acceptable to spend $ to keep your own players together. In line with this, I seem to recall some rather impressive arbitration awards that either were actually granted or were avoided by contract extensions to preserve good will. I really don't think anyone who plays the money card is going to fault the Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Bernie Williams signings. So yes, I agree with you that this follows with the Red Sox- in basketball, it is expressly encouraged.
As far as your free agent analysis, I'm game. Keep in mind I expressly limited my original argument to 1996 to 2000.
Clemens: (1999-2000) acquired via trade for David Wells. Wells was among the best pitchers in baseball making a hefty salary. Clemens went 14-10 in 1999 and 13-8 in 2000. He was hit or miss in the post season.
Cone: (1996-2000) Total hired gun, on team at all times . That's one.
Matsui: did not play.
Irabu: Seriously?
El Duque: (1998-2000) Free agent signing, salary was $2 million per year.
Knobloch: (1998-2000) acquired via trade, but a highly paid 2B no doubt.
Justice: (2000) acquired via trade- played 78 games with the 2000 team. This was a rental.
Canseco: (2000) acquired after trade deadline via waivers. Zero contribution.
Gooden: (1996) scrap heap signing that no one wanted.
Polonia: did not play
Lilly: was Sept. call up in 2000.
Wetteland: (1996) free agent signee. Fits the bill.
Rogers: (1996) free agent signee. Hardly big money, worst pitcher on the staff.
Boggs: (1996) free agent signee. Not that well paid
Raines: (1996-1998) free agent starter in 1996, bench thereafter. $2 million and less per year.
Strawberry: (1996-1999) total reclamation project. Salary under $1 million each year.
Fielder: (1996)- trade deadline acquisition.
Sierra: did not play
Wells: (1998)- free agent signee. Fits the bill.
Whiten- did not play
Incaviglia: did not play
Chili Davis: (1998-1999) free agent signee, played 35 games for 1998 team.
There were some free agent signings, to be sure, but these were not teams loaded with year after year of top free agents (like 2001 and beyond).
TW got pwn3d. Show a modicum of class you jealous grasping douchetard following the death of the greatest owner of the past 50 years.
RIP George, I hope they serve calzones in heaven infused with the carcasses of Red Sox fan abortions.
Owned by a guy that thinks paying El Duque and Tim Raines $2 million dollars in the 90s was a bargain.
flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Ok that may be correct but are you trying to argue the merits of the Yankees FO in finding talent or the fact that the dynasty wasn't built on money? You're all over the place.
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