The Battle of Comm Ave — Boston U. vs. Boston College

[DuchesneEast]

Pretty interesting, they are going to do a history of the rivalry with Emerick narrating. I would be interested but I cant deal with seeing us lose even one game and the Beanpot history will kill me.

[AdamBC]

Is this something that will be viewable online?

I am not surprised the Jack Parker Invitational will be discussed at length.

[claver2010]

Wondering what they are waiting for to release the schedule?

All of the HE games are out maybe trying to squeeze some in some more OOC games (which are absolute crap this year)?

[PhillyandBCEagles]

Beanpot woes aside, I'd have been fine with it until they won the title last year.

I'll still never understand how Miami blew that game. Oxford, OH should be used as a nuclear testing ground.

[AdamBC]

Exactly, how is it that our trips to the title game we play all the darn 1 seeds it seems... BU gets into the frozen four and hits only 4 seeds on their way to a title. It just stinks.

[totheights]

I can't decide who choked more? BC in the Hockey East Semis (3 goals in 45 seconds?) or Miami. Probably Miami cause it was on a much bigger stage but both were sorry performances.

[AdamBC]

We weren't half the team BU was last year. We were hoping to sneak into the post season with a strong showing in HE. I was excited when we held off BU for so long, but was not surprised we lost the game. That said, all the other teams that had the firepower to defeat BU last year lost to the likes of UAB and Alaska-Fairbanks in the first couple rounds.

[DuchesneEast]

Beanpot woes aside, I'd have been fine with it until they won the title last year.

I'll still never understand how Miami blew that game. Oxford, OH should be used as a nuclear testing ground.

I agree I would have rather have had the NCs but it looks like they had the last laugh by releasing it now. I think its due in Nov (Christmas stocking stuffer) It is by Rivals productions, I assume its the same as EA but not sure.

[PhillyandBCEagles]

We weren't half the team BU was last year. We were hoping to sneak into the post season with a strong showing in HE. I was excited when we held off BU for so long, but was not surprised we lost the game. That said, all the other teams that had the firepower to defeat BU last year lost to the likes of UAB and Alaska-Fairbanks in the first couple rounds.

BU didn't even play all that well in the NCAA tournament--if they'd run into a decent team they would've lost. Miami and Vermont both should've beaten them.

[claver2010]

Even UNH was an own goal away from taking them to OT.

[slurpees]

Exactly, how is it that our trips to the title game we play all the darn 1 seeds it seems... BU gets into the frozen four and hits only 4 seeds on their way to a title. It just stinks.

Probably because we'd played 2 of the other 1 seeds during the regular season and beaten them by a combined score of 11-3, as well as beating 2 #2 seeds by a combined total of 16-6 with a 3-0-2 record, not to mention the home game we had to play against UNH in Manchester to get to DC, something you've done once or twice. But if you really think ND who gets pummeled by a CHA team, Duluth or Yale would've presented much more of a challenge than Miami (who happens to be a favorite for preseason #1 this year), then go ahead and think that.

[b0mberMan]

Exactly, how is it that our trips to the title game we play all the darn 1 seeds it seems... BU gets into the frozen four and hits only 4 seeds on their way to a title. It just stinks.

Probably because we'd played 2 of the other 1 seeds during the regular season and beaten them by a combined score of 11-3, as well as beating 2 #2 seeds by a combined total of 16-6 with a 3-0-2 record, not to mention the home game we had to play against UNH in Manchester to get to DC, something you've done once or twice. But if you really think ND who gets pummeled by a CHA team, Duluth or Yale would've presented much more of a challenge than Miami (who happens to be a favorite for preseason #1 this year), then go ahead and think that.

The fact that you played them in the regular season has no bearing on the fact that you didn't have to play them again in the championship game.

[slurpees]

Exactly, how is it that our trips to the title game we play all the darn 1 seeds it seems... BU gets into the frozen four and hits only 4 seeds on their way to a title. It just stinks.

Probably because we'd played 2 of the other 1 seeds during the regular season and beaten them by a combined score of 11-3, as well as beating 2 #2 seeds by a combined total of 16-6 with a 3-0-2 record, not to mention the home game we had to play against UNH in Manchester to get to DC, something you've done once or twice. But if you really think ND who gets pummeled by a CHA team, Duluth or Yale would've presented much more of a challenge than Miami (who happens to be a favorite for preseason #1 this year), then go ahead and think that.

The fact that you played them in the regular season has no bearing on the fact that you didn't have to play them again in the championship game.

If you'd really like to argue that a team who ended their season 28-2-4 in the most difficult conference in the country had an easy road to the title, I'd love to have that argument with you.

And to the OP on this topic..when you're a 1 seed yourself, you obviously can't play a one seed for the first two rounds. In your recent championship game trips, you were a 2,2,3 seed thus you're very likely to run into the 1 seed.

[b0mberMan]

Exactly, how is it that our trips to the title game we play all the darn 1 seeds it seems... BU gets into the frozen four and hits only 4 seeds on their way to a title. It just stinks.

Probably because we'd played 2 of the other 1 seeds during the regular season and beaten them by a combined score of 11-3, as well as beating 2 #2 seeds by a combined total of 16-6 with a 3-0-2 record, not to mention the home game we had to play against UNH in Manchester to get to DC, something you've done once or twice. But if you really think ND who gets pummeled by a CHA team, Duluth or Yale would've presented much more of a challenge than Miami (who happens to be a favorite for preseason #1 this year), then go ahead and think that.

The fact that you played them in the regular season has no bearing on the fact that you didn't have to play them again in the championship game.

If you'd really like to argue that a team who ended their season 28-2-4 in the most difficult conference in the country had an easy road to the title, I'd love to have that argument with you.

Except that wasn't the argument I was having. Do they teach reading comp at BU? Jesus. Try it again.

[totheights]

Exactly, how is it that our trips to the title game we play all the darn 1 seeds it seems... BU gets into the frozen four and hits only 4 seeds on their way to a title. It just stinks.

Probably because we'd played 2 of the other 1 seeds during the regular season and beaten them by a combined score of 11-3, as well as beating 2 #2 seeds by a combined total of 16-6 with a 3-0-2 record, not to mention the home game we had to play against UNH in Manchester to get to DC, something you've done once or twice. But if you really think ND who gets pummeled by a CHA team, Duluth or Yale would've presented much more of a challenge than Miami (who happens to be a favorite for preseason #1 this year), then go ahead and think that.

The fact that you played them in the regular season has no bearing on the fact that you didn't have to play them again in the championship game.

If you'd really like to argue that a team who ended their season 28-2-4 in the most difficult conference in the country had an easy road to the title, I'd love to have that argument with you.

And to the OP on this topic..when you're a 1 seed yourself, you obviously can't play a one seed for the first two rounds. In your recent championship game trips, you were a 2,2,3 seed thus you're very likely to run into the 1 seed.

You really are a clueless BU fanboy aren't you? REGULAR SEASON RECORD HAS NO BEARING ON IF YOU FACED A TOUGH ROAD TO THE TITLE OR NOT.

There is no argument that can be made that doesn't have you with one of the easiest roads to the title game in the past 15 years.

[buconvict]

There cannot be much debate that BU had a pretty easy road to the title in terms of the seeds they played. IIRC, they played a 4, 3, 3, and 4. Having said that, UVM and Miami got to the frozen Four by virtue of beating higher seeds, so it's not a reach to say they were playing well at the right time of year. Additionally, the UNH game was a road game, which is much different than a road game in January.

As someone mentined earlier, BU was just a powerhouse last year. They won every competition they played in last season. Denver Cup, Beanpot, HE regular season, HE tourny, NCAA tourny. They were the best team in the nation, ranked #1 the entire year, easy road or not.

Having said that, that was last season. The DVD should be fun to watch, as should this upcoming season. A BC PP with two Whitneys will score a lottttt of goals.

[talon]

Additionally, the UNH game was a road game, which is much different than a road game in January.

I disagree. It was a postseason game. BC played Boise State in a bowl game at Boise State, but Boise State wasn't the home team so it doesn't count as a home loss, all because of the color of the uniform they were wearing.

but seriously, at least in hockey, the "home" team has actually gameplay advantages, like the ability to make the final line change. BU can't claim to be disadvantaged in that game when they were the higher seed. I don't care to check it, but I'm pretty sure that the game was in NH, but not on the campus of UNH. A very easy drive for BU fans to make.

If BU was a #1 seed, but got sent out west to play at another team's home rink, then maybe I could see where there would be a disadvantage, in terms of crowd support, but to claim that UNH clearly had any upper hand against BU in that game is preposterous.

[buconvict]

It's pretty clear that you didn't watch the game. If you had, you'd have noticed that at least 80% of the crowd was cheering for UNH. Line changes and white jerseys aside, it was very much like a road game.

[talon]

It's pretty clear that you didn't watch the game. If you had, you'd have noticed that at least 80% of the crowd was cheering for UNH. Line changes and white jerseys aside, it was very much like a road game.

I didn't watch the game, but I don't have any empathy for the Eurotrash that didn't take the time or effort to drive a fucking hour.

[flyingelvii]

I've never really understood the crowd advantage in hockey. Maybe it's just because the BC student section sucks.

But final change is HUGE, especially when you're game planning to stifle like JVR for UNH last year.

Edit: IIRC the regional was in Manchester, which I think is considered a suburb of Boston.

[buconvict]

It's pretty clear that you didn't watch the game. If you had, you'd have noticed that at least 80% of the crowd was cheering for UNH. Line changes and white jerseys aside, it was very much like a road game.

I didn't watch the game, but I don't have any empathy for the Eurotrash that didn't take the time or effort to drive a fucking hour.

Typical Talon, changing the argument. Now it's about fan support? You really want to debate whether BU hockey has adequate fan support? The tickets get allotted to participating schools. Not surprisingly, BU filled up their area of the arena. The rest of the tickets go to the host school's season ticket holders and to general public, aka UNH fans. How'd BC fans travel to the NIT? They won't even travel to the Garden to watch the Beanpot.

As for me and my fellow Eurotrash, we really don't need your empathy. The historic meltdown in the HE Tourny was enough charity.

[talon]

does fan support negate the fact that BU got the last line change in that game?

[buconvict]

does fan support negate the fact that BU got the last line change in that game?

Now we're back to line changes, which I already agreed is a byproduct of being the "home" team?

I'm not doing this. Arguing with you is the same as arguing with OJ.

[talon]

I'm not trying to change the argument. I'm just trying to get a straight answer out of you. how was BU at a disadvantage in that game? Did the extra fans in the stands rooting for the other team have a stronger effect than BU's ability to counteract UNH's line changes during stoppages of play?

[buconvict]

I'm not trying to change the argument. I'm just trying to get a straight answer out of you. how was BU at a disadvantage in that game? Did the extra fans in the stands rooting for the other team have a stronger effect than BU's ability to counteract UNH's line changes during stoppages of play?

My answers have been very straight. I believe that crowds have a big impact on the mentality of 18-22 year old kids, and that impact is amplified in a Regional Final. Nobody is claiming that the final line changes aren't important, because they are. However, I think in the 3rd period of a 1-1 game, the crowd has a greater impact than the ability to match lines.

You're free to disagree of course. This argument started when someone said that BU did not have an easy road to the the title. I said that as far as NCAA tournys go, they did, although they faced a stiff challenge when they played a neutral site game against the University of New Hampshire in the state of New Hampshire.

[talon]

I said that as far as NCAA tournys go, they did, although they faced a stiff challenge when they played a neutral site game against the University of New Hampshire in the state of New Hampshire.

Additionally, the UNH game was a road game

[buconvict]

So by your logic, BC played Boise at home? It was technically a neutral site, and BC was listed as the home team. The MPC Computers Bowl has no affiliation to Boise State you know.

Honestly Talon, trying to have a conversation with you is just annoying. Enjoy the rest of the thread by yourself.

[talon]

So by your logic, BC played Boise at home? It was technically a neutral site, and BC was listed as the home team. The MPC Computers Bowl has no affiliation to Boise State you know.

You can't compare football to hockey. In football, being the "home" team offers NO ADVANTAGE in terms of how the game is played. In hockey, the "home" team has a defined rules advantage (last line change).

Furthermore, the UNH-BU game being discussed was not played at the Whit.

In the BC-Texas 25 inning game, it was played on UT-Austin's home field. But BC was listed as the home team. BC was given an advantage of last at-bats. For that reason, I wouldn't say that it was a road game for BC.

[flyingelvii]

My answers have been very straight. I believe that crowds have a big impact on the mentality of 18-22 year old kids, and that impact is amplified in a Regional Final. Nobody is claiming that the final line changes aren't important, because they are. However, I think in the 3rd period of a 1-1 game, the crowd has a greater impact than the ability to match lines.

You're free to disagree of course. This argument started when someone said that BU did not have an easy road to the the title. I said that as far as NCAA tournys go, they did, although they faced a stiff challenge when they played a neutral site game against the University of New Hampshire in the state of New Hampshire.

You honestly believe that Section 300 has a bigger effect on a tie game in the 3rd than Parker being able to line up his best defensive line against JVR? Than Parker being able to put his top line out there against UNH's third line?

[slurpees]

It's pretty clear that you didn't watch the game. If you had, you'd have noticed that at least 80% of the crowd was cheering for UNH. Line changes and white jerseys aside, it was very much like a road game.

I didn't watch the game, but I don't have any empathy for the Eurotrash that didn't take the time or effort to drive a fucking hour.

I'm only going to quote this post in reference to my first point.

You are clearly unaware of the way the NCAA handles venue hosting for the hockey tournament. UNH was the host team in Manchester, thus they are AUTOMATICALLY placed in Manchester if they make the tournament. This was a forgone conclusion for basically the whole season, thus UNH fans could eat up large numbers of the tickets to the games there before anyone else (BU was up in the air between Bridgeport and Manchester until the day before the selection) knows where their team will be playing. Despite this, BU asked the VZW Arena twice for more tickets since the ones allotted to us sold out to students/season ticket holders in no time, so implying that we "didn't take the time or effort to drive" is patently false. And yes, it was a de-facto UNH home game. UNH's home announcer, announcer antics, introduction music, fish thrown on the ice after the first goal, among other Whit staples were all present. How much more difficult does that make it for BU? We can argue until the cows come home about that. Yes, the last line change does make a noticeable difference, but the combined factors here do not add up to an "easy" game. And claver - look at the replay, the only way Pollastrone has any shot at stopping the crossing pass from Lawrence to Colin Wilson is by diving for the puck. If the puck goes through him Wilson's stick is 2 feet behind it - wanna take a bet if he puts that home? The better comment would've been they were a Kieran Millan highway robbery glove save from taking the lead with 4 minutes to go.

Second, Yes, we played two 3 seeds and two 4 seeds to win the title, so on the surface it appears to be an "easy path". But look at the facts of the situation. First, being a 1 seed we are immediately slotted one game vs a 4 seed - and we actually got screwed a little bit because as the #1 overall seed, we should've played the #16 team in Bemidji but due to hosting rules and intra-conference first round matchups, we were forced to play the #15 Ohio State team. On paper this was supposed to be a sizeable difference in quality of opponent (though it turned out to be different) but still detracts from the "easy path" argument. Second, if you think playing UNH in Manchester was an "easy" game, you're a fool. It's fairly clear the regional games do not help the "easy path" argument. Again, on paper it would appear BU would steamroll through Washington: two 4 seeds including a CHA team and a 3 seed? Looks like cake. Right? Wrong. UVM was the highest ranked 3 seed and a top 10 team all season long - they were a 2 seed the whole way and played their way out of it by crapping themselves against a hot Lowell team in the HE QF's. Now, you could say it might have been more difficult if Michigan had come out of that region, but the difference is negligible. Michigan was plagued with injuries, had streaky goaltending, and came from an overall weak CCHA. They still might have made for a more difficult opponent, but the difference is not significant. Let's not forget we got swept at home by UVM, and they took 3 of 4 points early in the season at home from Miami.

Next, there is something to be said that Miami can be considered an "easy" championship game opponent. They sputtered their way through the regular season, choked in the CCHA QF's, and backdoored their way into the tournament. From a pure talent standpoint, Miami didn't hold a candle to BU. They were a hot team who played a couple of good games then got a good draw in the Semifinal against an overwhelmed Bemidji who was in the same position George Mason was when they got thumped by Florida in the 06 Final Four. But credit Miami for showing up and playing their hearts out while BU bumbled around for 57 minutes and got a marginally average performance from our goalie before turning on the jets and playing probably the best 3 minutes of hockey of our season. So the championship game opponent can be considered "easy".

But this begs the question, who would've been better? Duluth? They were barely a tournament team before storming through the WCHA tournament, and even then needed some help from UVM to get a 2 seed. Northeastern? Without Thiessen they're a .500 team. We put up nearly 3 goals per game on him and went 2-0-2, so there's little argument for them. Denver? Eh. They were never terribly impressive and Miami defeated them anyways. The only team where there's any argument is Notre Dame. This was the championship game everyone thought would occur going back to February. Despite Miami sweeping them on the road in October, it's pretty easy to say ND would've been a more difficult game. But if they couldn't get up enough to beat Bemidji State - and not just lose to them but get destroyed by them, this begs the question how much more difficult would it have been?

This brings me to why I had originally brought up regular season records in my original argument. When you make the statement "you had an easy road to the championship" you are implying that since you played no one of any real worth, you're somehow less deserving of being champion. This is where the argument about how BU thumped many of the 1 and 2 seeded teams throughout the regular season comes in. If playing 3 and 4 seeds was easy, where is the proof that playing 1 and 2 seeds that we'd repeatedly disposed of (5-0-2 combined record) would've been more difficult? The only team that had any continued success against us last year was UVM - 1/3 of our losses were to them. They were part of our "easy" path. You can sit there and make the argument that if we'd played them again Michigan might've played a better because it would be in the Frozen Four, or North Dakota would've been more difficult than the IceBreaker game, or Denver would've been more amped up to play us in the title game than the Denver Cup final. But there's little proof of any of this. Not only did we handly dispose of all 3 of those teams, they all lost in the first round and in UM and ND's case to much lesser competition. The fact that we didn't play them in the postseason doesn't mean anything - there's no proof they would've beaten us. Instead we defeated the only two quality teams who beat us all season. The underlying argument of the "you had an easy road" comment holds absolutely no weight. Find me someone who would claim that BU was not outright the best team in the nation last year. Playing at the top of our game there was no one in the country last year who could compete with us. Sure, we never played ND but there's little evidence they would've done any better than Denver or Michigan did. Anyone who makes an insinuation that BU was not definitively the best team in the nation last year and the most worthy of being called the national champions clearly did not pay any attention to college hockey last year and didn't even read box scores or standings.

In a 16 team tournament, there is little difference between the top and bottom seeded teams. The way the hockey tournament is set up, there are 14 top teams and 2 that usually are significantly lower quality teams - of course this proven not to be the case this year. We played and defeated two top 10 teams during the tournament - to simply look at the numerical seeds and draw a conclusion about the difficulty of the path to the championship and by default the overall worthiness of being called the championship team would be making a sweeping generalization without accounting for the facts of what happened before and during the tournament.