2018-19 Season

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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby flyingelvii on Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:20 pm

Adapt or die.

You don’t change the eligibility rules because then you hurt the overall talent of college hockey. And most play at crappy schools as noted above so there’s no reason to really fix a non-issue.

So another dumb post by Corners!
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Eaglekeeper on Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:00 pm

You missed the point about talent. The 20 and 21 year old freshman are not talented that’s why they are staying in junior hockey 2-3 years. You are not going to lower the talent level by making these kids start their college career at age 19. How can BC adapt, by taking older less talented players because they will stay 4 years? Maybe, but who wants to watch boring hockey. You’re blaming JY for changes in the game that he cannot control. Does he stop recruiting first 3 rounds draft picks? The quality of college hockey is down and it’s not getting better anytime soon.

BC has a young team that is still making mistakes. They will get better and if all of the talent stays with the incoming recruits they will win another NC. It’s doubtful that the talent stays and then you have to start from square one with another group of top draft choices. College hockey is a quick stop for the best talent.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:18 pm

I'm doing nothing of what you say outside of saying your proposal to limit the amount of early-20s people in college hockey is, like a lot of your ideas, dumb and shortsighted.

The 20/21 year old freshman are likely more talented than the 18/19 year old freshmen who would be replacing them. Therefore, by limiting the amount of 20/21 year olds coming into college hockey, you are making it a worse overall product. If you are a 18/19 year old getting beat out by a 20/21 year old, you are likely a fringe player at best. That is bad for college hockey overall and, I would argue, bad for the more talented, age appropriate kids who are playing since they are trying to develop against worse talent. That then leads more people to take the Juniors route because they have a higher talent level and you are also getting paid and can earn free years of college paid for by the Junior team while you focus on hockey and the better competition.

But I'm sure you thought all of this through.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Eaglekeeper on Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:18 pm

You missed the point again. It’s the same kids that will just start their college careers at 19 instead of 20 or 21. I have been watching college hockey for 40 years.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Eaglekeeper on Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:46 pm

The kids don’t really improve much with 2 years of juniors, they just get bigger and stronger. They go to juniors because they are waiting for the 23-25 year olds to graduate. The talent is in the players drafted in the first 5-7 rounds and they don’t want to play in the USHL, they want to enroll in college at age 18. USHL has destroyed high school hockey and that’s not good in the long run in my opinion.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby BostonCollege1 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 pm

flyingelvii wrote:I'm doing nothing of what you say outside of saying your proposal to limit the amount of early-20s people in college hockey is, like a lot of your ideas, dumb and shortsighted.

The 20/21 year old freshman are likely more talented than the 18/19 year old freshmen who would be replacing them. Therefore, by limiting the amount of 20/21 year olds coming into college hockey, you are making it a worse overall product. If you are a 18/19 year old getting beat out by a 20/21 year old, you are likely a fringe player at best. That is bad for college hockey overall and, I would argue, bad for the more talented, age appropriate kids who are playing since they are trying to develop against worse talent. That then leads more people to take the Juniors route because they have a higher talent level and you are also getting paid and can earn free years of college paid for by the Junior team while you focus on hockey and the better competition.

But I'm sure you thought all of this through.


I don't want to say that I agree with Corners, because I'd rather shoot myself, but the 18/19 year old freshmen are the kids from the USNDP, who are mostly expected to be top draft picks, and leave early. The teams currently getting most of them? BC, BU, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota (who dropped two games to Canisius)...

Where Corners is completely off the rails is that for the kids who are late bloomers, or slightly less talented - more size, strength and experience does matter, and yes, they are getting better. To state otherwise would mean that every player would be at their best at 18, and never improve.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Eaglekeeper on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:25 pm

No, they do not improve to a level that it makes sense not to start their college careers by age 19. By age 23-25 they should be in the AHL or Europe getting paid. You’re cutting down on their earning years by denying them admission to college for 2-3 years. This is college hockey, not semi-pro hockey.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby flyingelvii on Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:52 pm

BostonCollege1 wrote:
flyingelvii wrote:I'm doing nothing of what you say outside of saying your proposal to limit the amount of early-20s people in college hockey is, like a lot of your ideas, dumb and shortsighted.

The 20/21 year old freshman are likely more talented than the 18/19 year old freshmen who would be replacing them. Therefore, by limiting the amount of 20/21 year olds coming into college hockey, you are making it a worse overall product. If you are a 18/19 year old getting beat out by a 20/21 year old, you are likely a fringe player at best. That is bad for college hockey overall and, I would argue, bad for the more talented, age appropriate kids who are playing since they are trying to develop against worse talent. That then leads more people to take the Juniors route because they have a higher talent level and you are also getting paid and can earn free years of college paid for by the Junior team while you focus on hockey and the better competition.

But I'm sure you thought all of this through.


I don't want to say that I agree with Corners, because I'd rather shoot myself, but the 18/19 year old freshmen are the kids from the USNDP, who are mostly expected to be top draft picks, and leave early. The teams currently getting most of them? BC, BU, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota (who dropped two games to Canisius)...

Where Corners is completely off the rails is that for the kids who are late bloomers, or slightly less talented - more size, strength and experience does matter, and yes, they are getting better. To state otherwise would mean that every player would be at their best at 18, and never improve.

USNTDP kids are like 15 kids per year spread across like 10 colleges out of the 50 or whatever that have D1 programs. And those kids aren't fringe players that are on the cusp of getting bumped or not getting a full scholly.

I don't personally care to trove through recruit lists but I imagine that plenty of teams are also being filled by 18/19 year old freshman from the MA/CT prep schools, non-USNTDP USHL teams, and other sources. Those are the ones that are impacted by the overage players playing college hockey.

It's also funny how corners posits "getting bigger and stronger" doesn't equate to getting better at hockey. BECAUSE HE'S BEEN WATCHING COLLEGE HOCKEY FOR 40 YEARS DAMMIT!
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby flyingelvii on Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:55 pm

Eaglekeeper wrote:No, they do not improve to a level that it makes sense not to start their college careers by age 19. By age 23-25 they should be in the AHL or Europe getting paid. You’re cutting down on their earning years by denying them admission to college for 2-3 years. This is college hockey, not semi-pro hockey.

Maybe they want to get an education because they are human beings and value some degree of an education to set them up for when they are done with their careers because they realize there is probably a cap to the dream they decided to chase when they were 17 or so and had to make the decision to commit full time to hockey or not.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Eaglekeeper on Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:48 pm

It’s not the fault of the players, it’s the fault of the coaches and the colleges. There is no reason to delay the start of college for 2-3 years for these kids. Not going to school and having to pay your way in junior hockey is not a good thing for these kids.

Getting bigger and stronger does not equal improving your skills. Most teams except the elite teams recruit mostly older players.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby flyingelvii on Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:48 am

You keep saying it’s not a good thing to play two years of Juniors but have yet to actually say why outside of I HAVE 40 YEARS OF WATCHING COLLEGE HOCKEY AND CAN DO 100 PUSH UPS IN 20 MINUTES. You are fantastically wrong that players don’t get better playing juniors when they are focusing on training and playing hockey everyday.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby eepstein0 on Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:19 pm

A 7-2 loss to Maine is a new low for this team
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby BostonCollege1 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:58 am

eepstein0 wrote:A 7-2 loss to Maine is a new low for this team


Having sat through both that game and the Bentley game, I'm not sure which is worse. At least Maine has a couple of kids with talent.

I was optimistic after last week's win over PC; BC outfought them and deserved the win. Last night was an absolute mail-in job. Edquist was good early, then lost confidence after getting hung out to dry. He'd make the initial save, then no one would clear the rebound. Fitzgerald, McInnis ("leading" the decline with his -10), Finkelstein... all terrible. Same for Dudek. Hutsko (-6) and McPhee (-8) have taken a step backwards, and Grando has been invisible. Rasanen passed instead of shooting on a half-open net. This team has no heart and no confidence now.

If Jerry doesn't want to retire, his first step should be to replace Marty with a new assistant who's willing to kick some ass, then bench his kid. I'm not sure what Buckley has brought, either, as the D has been terrible.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby eepstein0 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:15 am

BostonCollege1 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:A 7-2 loss to Maine is a new low for this team


Having sat through both that game and the Bentley game, I'm not sure which is worse. At least Maine has a couple of kids with talent.

I was optimistic after last week's win over PC; BC outfought them and deserved the win. Last night was an absolute mail-in job. Edquist was good early, then lost confidence after getting hung out to dry. He'd make the initial save, then no one would clear the rebound. Fitzgerald, McInnis ("leading" the decline with his -10), Finkelstein... all terrible. Same for Dudek. Hutsko (-6) and McPhee (-8) have taken a step backwards, and Grando has been invisible. Rasanen passed instead of shooting on a half-open net. This team has no heart and no confidence now.

If Jerry doesn't want to retire, his first step should be to replace Marty with a new assistant who's willing to kick some ass, then bench his kid. I'm not sure what Buckley has brought, either, as the D has been terrible.


Listening to the press conference didn't inspire much confidence.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:28 pm

flyingelvii wrote:Adapt or die.

You don’t change the eligibility rules because then you hurt the overall talent of college hockey. And most play at crappy schools as noted above so there’s no reason to really fix a non-issue.

So another dumb post by Corners!


Pot and kettle here.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby flyingelvii on Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:50 am

Thanks for your continued great insight and input in the form of five word posts!
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:44 pm

flyingelvii wrote:Thanks for your continued great insight and input in the form of five word posts!


More brevity would be a welcome change here.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby flyingelvii on Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:54 pm

And brevity with no point is wasted words when incessantly trying to act like the smartest person in the room.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby twballgame9 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:39 am

flyingelvii wrote:And brevity with no point is wasted words when incessantly trying to act like the smartest person in the room.


I'll take your word for it.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby claver2010 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:52 am

Nice win yesterday even though they were dominated for long stretches only to get bailed out consistently by Woll

Would’ve been interesting to see the type of numbers and trophies he’d rack up if he had the talent from ‘10-‘14 or so in front of him
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:28 am

claver2010 wrote:Nice win yesterday even though they were dominated for long stretches only to get bailed out consistently by Woll

Would’ve been interesting to see the type of numbers and trophies he’d rack up if he had the talent from ‘10-‘14 or so in front of him


You have to feel for Woll. He is not and has never been the problem. I’d also venture to say he is probably the reason they won the last two HE regular season titles. Wahlstrom has looked good, but it is remarkable how much the sophomores have regressed. McPhee looks absolutely lost.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby BostonCollege1 on Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:15 pm

Dick Rosenthal wrote:
claver2010 wrote:Nice win yesterday even though they were dominated for long stretches only to get bailed out consistently by Woll

Would’ve been interesting to see the type of numbers and trophies he’d rack up if he had the talent from ‘10-‘14 or so in front of him


You have to feel for Woll. He is not and has never been the problem. I’d also venture to say he is probably the reason they won the last two HE regular season titles. Wahlstrom has looked good, but it is remarkable how much the sophomores have regressed. McPhee looks absolutely lost.


McPhee's a junior, but point taken - he's only good for a dumb penalty (or two) a game now. Maybe it's because he's on the fourth line and being centered by Ron Greco? One of this team's biggest problem is the quality of their centers.

McBain and Wahlstrom are ready to go to another level of play - hopefully its still at the Heights.

Just picked up Mike Hardman of Hanover, for next year. Was a Union commit. Very good season in the BCHL this year, not so good in the USHL last year. https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/353521/mike-hardman
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:47 pm

This fucking team is a gutless disgrace. Just when I think they couldn’t be worse, they find a new way to shit the bed. I think I actually hate them as they combine all the worst traits of Lenny’s epic underachievers and Cedar’s brain dead imbeciles. Are we sure Jerry is still coaching this trainwreck? I pray this isn’t a Weekend at Bernie’s scenario where Jerry has passed and Marty McInnis is hiding it because he knows he’ll never get a job coaching anything above pee weed again and hilarity ensues.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby BostonCollege1 on Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:51 pm

Dick Rosenthal wrote:This fucking team is a gutless disgrace. Just when I think they couldn’t be worse, they find a new way to shit the bed. I think I actually hate them as they combine all the worst traits of Lenny’s epic underachievers and Cedar’s brain dead imbeciles. Are we sure Jerry is still coaching this trainwreck? I pray this isn’t a Weekend at Bernie’s scenario where Jerry has passed and Marty McInnis is hiding it because he knows he’ll never get a job coaching anything above pee weed again and hilarity ensues.


While they have many, many flaws, it's the sheer amount of stupid that's really killing the team this year. Marc McLaughlin taking a hooking penalty behind UMass' goal line and Michael Karow flipping a blind, backhand pass from behind his own goal line straight to a UMass forward were both incredibly dumb plays.

Also, when did Jerry allow facial hair on the players and assistant coaches?
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby eepstein0 on Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:53 am

Dick Rosenthal wrote:This fucking team is a gutless disgrace. Just when I think they couldn’t be worse, they find a new way to shit the bed. I think I actually hate them as they combine all the worst traits of Lenny’s epic underachievers and Cedar’s brain dead imbeciles. Are we sure Jerry is still coaching this trainwreck? I pray this isn’t a Weekend at Bernie’s scenario where Jerry has passed and Marty McInnis is hiding it because he knows he’ll never get a job coaching anything above pee weed again and hilarity ensues.


That was pretty awful last night
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Logitano on Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:15 pm

eepstein0 wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:This fucking team is a gutless disgrace. Just when I think they couldn’t be worse, they find a new way to shit the bed. I think I actually hate them as they combine all the worst traits of Lenny’s epic underachievers and Cedar’s brain dead imbeciles. Are we sure Jerry is still coaching this trainwreck? I pray this isn’t a Weekend at Bernie’s scenario where Jerry has passed and Marty McInnis is hiding it because he knows he’ll never get a job coaching anything above pee weed again and hilarity ensues.


That was pretty awful last night


This. :ace
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Supahfan99 on Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:04 am

This program is dead.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:05 am

Yep. We are looking at three years without a tournament berth, a record against out of conference opponents during that period that I was tempted to label Cedorchukian until I looked it up and found that Cedorchuk actually best Yale twice, Army twice, beat Harvard when they were #1 in the country, tied St. Lawrence and beat Cornell on the road during the implosion of the program (he also won a Beanpot), we have also fallen off a cliff from last year and are approaching a 92-93 level of sheer awfulness without the excuse of being in the midst of the wholesale departure of NHL level talent, the retirement of a coaching legend and having two arch rivals firing on all cylinders (BU and Maine) from a performance and recruiting perspective.

If there is any coach in the universe who deserves our unabashed benefit of the doubt, it is Coach Champion. But here’s the thing, when the high talent freshman and sophomores departed en masse after the last Frozen Four, it would have been perfectly acceptable for the team to have a year like we are having this year. But we didn’t. Sure, we weren’t great and we didn’t make the tournament, but the team played hard and they won a regular season title and were in the mix for a tournament berth until the last day. Then, we were alleged to be replenishing some of the departed talent from the Frozen Four exodus. We expected to make the tournament and we didn’t. But again, the team played hard. They made some dumb mistakes that cost them some games, but they were really, really young and again, they won the regular season title and were in the mix for a tournament berth until the last night. You could at least write it off as the growing pains of a rebuild with young kids leading the way. This year, there is no excuse. On paper, we should have been much better than the last two seasons, some of the kids should have grown up a bit and figured it out as they became upper classmen, but instead they have regressed in a massive way. McBain and Wahlstrom have as much talent as advertised, but are prone to freshman mistakes and don’t seem to be getting coached up in the way we did so during the dynastic run and most damning off all, the effort does not appear to be there on most nights.

In sum, the trend line is appalling and I think this year marks the end of any benefit of the doubt. I had heard from people in the know that Jerry wanted to reload the program one more time and make one more run at national titles to try to tie or pass Vic Heyliger for most NCAA titles and run BC past BU in total national championships. I think we have to give him one more season to do so, but it appears increasingly unlikely that he can do so and increasingly apparent that the program needs a reboot. All great things come to an end and I think that is where we are.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby BCEagles66 on Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:58 pm

No doubt about this season and the out of conference losing streak have been inexplicable and unacceptable, but this rehash of history is a bit off.

The mass exodus wasn't just at one level, it hit from freshmen through juniors. It was a full scale decimation of the team's talent that couldn't possibly be made up within even 2 recruiting classes given the lack of upperclassmen that would be around for the next couple recruiting cycles.

Next, we straight up lost the recruiting battles versus BU and Quinn (for exactly the same type of high potential, high flight-risk kids). That hurt, but we still had a decent pipeline. Then we got hit with two of our top recruits bolting Jeremy Roenick style, plus another failing to clear the NCAA academic eligibility hurdle. Those three were supposed to be the high-end skill forwards at each class level that this team so badly needs. Add in the fact that one of our prized defenseman recruits (Sammuelson) didn't pan out - his regression started before coming to BC, so we can't blame the staff there - and there has been some bad luck along the way.

Overall, this team is suffering from extreme lack of offensive skill, lack of very good upperclassmen, and the structural battle of going up against 21-year old freshmen. Some of these issues are the fault of the staff, others are not. We should NEVER lose to Bentley, so I'm not excusing all of the bad, but there are decent explanations for much of the recent ugliness.

Looking ahead, we have 5 incoming freshmen from the USANTDP, including an elite goal scorer and the class's best goaltender. We are also complementing that with an older freshman. If the team remains intact, there's hope for next season. Unfortunately, Wahlstrom and McBain always seem to have early departure rumors floating around and Cotton was drafted a full year before hitting campus, so I'm not sure what the implications are for that.
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Re: 2018-19 Season

Postby blueline on Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:37 pm

We're getting hit with a little bit of everything.

Lack of talent and depth

Lack of leadership on the team and poor coaching adjustments during the game and during practices for whatever reasons

The penalties continue and the defense is very poor on the PK

Besides dumb penalties they do the same thing on PK mistakes and poor coverage

On the PP it is the same, lack of SOG and poor puck movement. No sense of urgency and often they waste powerplay time with poor breakouts and poor decisions with the puck which often means bad passing and bad drop passes. Sometimes or very often they over pass and end up with no shot on net instead.

I watched the Bruins the other night on a PP. After a poor PP, the Bruins quickly made adjustments on the next PP by moving the puck better and quickly unloading shots for a PP goal.

I have not seen such a bad BC team since York took over in the 90s.
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