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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:37 am

Endless Mike wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Do you even watch the Bruins? I live in DC and I bet I somehow see more games. Savard has been out, Lucic has been out, Krecji has swine flu. I think you might want to hold out assessment here until the Bruins have somewhere near a full-team. Take 3 of the top 6 forwards off of an NHL team and see how well they do for an extended period of time. It's not that Kessel dragged anyone down necessarily, people just don't like him in the locker room. Toronto is going to awful with or without him this year.



Endless Mike wrote:So if Kessel was such a clubhouse cancer who makes everyone around him suck, when can we expect this team to play well now that his reign of terror is over?

PS- Kessel was on the team last season and they seemed to play pretty well despite his best efforts to crush everyone's spirits.


If I didn't watch the Bruins, I wouldn't be upset about the fire sale 7 games into the season. Funny that the guy who wants to dump players for draft picks 7 games into the friggin season is now telling me to wait and see.

Because Chuck Kobasew and his goal and assist with the Wild since the trade, with their new coach and more "open" game, would have really helped the Bruins out this year. But what the fuck do I know after watching more or less every game last year?

Edit: The B's are snake bit right now. They are rushing their opportunities. Once more goals start to come I hold out hope. But at this point, I'm hoping for .500 until Savvy and Looch return. They had an absurd amount of chances tonight but could not finish. Bergeron literally saved me from tossing my phone at some innocent girl.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:02 am

Look, after the success this team had last year, turning around and trading Kessel and Kobasew for draft picks this early in the season is a bad sign and it reminds me of the Harry Sinden/Mike O'Connel days as anyone who has followed the Bruins should remember. I am sorry if that offends the fans of payroll flexibility.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:05 am

flyingelvii wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Do you even watch the Bruins? I live in DC and I bet I somehow see more games. Savard has been out, Lucic has been out, Krecji has swine flu. I think you might want to hold out assessment here until the Bruins have somewhere near a full-team. Take 3 of the top 6 forwards off of an NHL team and see how well they do for an extended period of time. It's not that Kessel dragged anyone down necessarily, people just don't like him in the locker room. Toronto is going to awful with or without him this year.



Endless Mike wrote:So if Kessel was such a clubhouse cancer who makes everyone around him suck, when can we expect this team to play well now that his reign of terror is over?

PS- Kessel was on the team last season and they seemed to play pretty well despite his best efforts to crush everyone's spirits.


If I didn't watch the Bruins, I wouldn't be upset about the fire sale 7 games into the season. Funny that the guy who wants to dump players for draft picks 7 games into the friggin season is now telling me to wait and see.

Because Chuck Kobasew and his goal and assist with the Wild since the trade, with their new coach and more "open" game, would have really helped the Bruins out this year. But what the fuck do I know after watching more or less every game last year?

Edit: The B's are snake bit right now. They are rushing their opportunities. Once more goals start to come I hold out hope. But at this point, I'm hoping for .500 until Savvy and Looch return. They had an absurd amount of chances tonight but could not finish. Bergeron literally saved me from tossing my phone at some innocent girl.


Kessel and Kobasew could be helping this team more than draft picks or Providence call-ups could right now.

I don't care if you're the one scoring the goals. Somebody has to.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:54 am

Endless Mike wrote:Look, after the success this team had last year, turning around and trading Kessel and Kobasew for draft picks this early in the season is a bad sign and it reminds me of the Harry Sinden/Mike O'Connel days as anyone who has followed the Bruins should remember. I am sorry if that offends the fans of payroll flexibility.

You're also forgetting about Paille. He's basically filled the role of Axe this year. Before he came the PK was operating at something like a 40% success rate. Not sure on the exact numbers but I think they've only let up one goal on the PK since. For a team that's not scoring goals, to have that type of a player on the PK is huge. And he's actually getting some offensive production.

And I don't believe that Kobasew would do significantly more than Sobotka, seeing as they both have pretty much the same stats and Sobotka actually hits people.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:03 pm

Oh of course, how could I forget about Daniel Paille, or "Kobasew Lite" as you described him after telling me how awful Kobasew is. :dildodog
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:06 pm

Endless Mike wrote:Oh of course, how could I forget about Daniel Paille, or "Kobasew Lite" as you described him after telling me how awful Kobasew is. :dildodog

I didn't say Kobasew sucked. I said he's a solid 3rd liner that isn't a real contributor on special teams. But again, you seem to have forgotten that. I'm shocked. Paille, on the other hand, is a 3rd/4th liner that can play the PK very effectively.

Edit: I did say Kobasew was overpaid. Overpaid doesn't mean suck though. Just that he's making a lot more than he should given his production level.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby buconvict on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:53 pm

I'll answer your "where do we find 1.5 million dollars question in all caps, since you obviously didn't see it before.

DON'T SIGN MORRIS FOR 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS. TRADE SOMEONE SHITTY LIKE STURM OR RYDER. DON'T GIVE KREJCI 3.5 MILLION A YEAR SO HE CAN SCORE ONE FUCKING GOAL IN 15 GAMES.

Clear enough for you? The Bruins blow because they cheaped out. But hey, at least they scored a goal last night! It only took 179 minutes, but they did it! :fam

ps. Anyone who says Kessel looked bad in his return is blind.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby buconvict on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:54 pm

Endless Mike wrote:Oh of course, how could I forget about Daniel Paille, or "Kobasew Lite" as you described him after telling me how awful Kobasew is. :dildodog



FAXCIAL
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby bceagles24 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:53 pm

buconvict wrote:I'll answer your "where do we find 1.5 million dollars question in all caps, since you obviously didn't see it before.

DON'T SIGN MORRIS FOR 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS. TRADE SOMEONE SHITTY LIKE STURM OR RYDER. DON'T GIVE KREJCI 3.5 MILLION A YEAR SO HE CAN SCORE ONE FUCKING GOAL IN 15 GAMES.

Clear enough for you? The Bruins blow because they cheaped out. But hey, at least they scored a goal last night! It only took 179 minutes, but they did it! :fam

ps. Anyone who says Kessel looked bad in his return is blind.



Yeah and that hurts is just as much. Morris may be our most consistent D-man right now with Chara not playing well,and Wideman being very inconsistent. Sturm can't be traded as he has a no-trade clause,and no one is going to take Ryder and his albatross of a contract. Lastly IMO Krejci was better than Kessel last year,and is a better player period. Kessel scores,but Krejci has an all around game. He sets people up a lot,can score,and is a good defensive forward.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby buconvict on Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:28 pm

bceagles24 wrote:
buconvict wrote:I'll answer your "where do we find 1.5 million dollars question in all caps, since you obviously didn't see it before.

DON'T SIGN MORRIS FOR 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS. TRADE SOMEONE SHITTY LIKE STURM OR RYDER. DON'T GIVE KREJCI 3.5 MILLION A YEAR SO HE CAN SCORE ONE FUCKING GOAL IN 15 GAMES.

Clear enough for you? The Bruins blow because they cheaped out. But hey, at least they scored a goal last night! It only took 179 minutes, but they did it! :fam

ps. Anyone who says Kessel looked bad in his return is blind.



Krejci has an all around game. He sets people up a lot,can score,and is a good defensive forward.



Yet somehow has managed 1 goal and 4 assists in 14 games. What a superstar.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:04 pm

Everyone who has posted on this thread deserves :kudos . We have a four-page hockey thread in November.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:11 pm

buconvict wrote:I'll answer your "where do we find 1.5 million dollars question in all caps, since you obviously didn't see it before.

DON'T SIGN MORRIS FOR 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS. TRADE SOMEONE SHITTY LIKE STURM OR RYDER. DON'T GIVE KREJCI 3.5 MILLION A YEAR SO HE CAN SCORE ONE FUCKING GOAL IN 15 GAMES.

Clear enough for you? The Bruins blow because they cheaped out. But hey, at least they scored a goal last night! It only took 179 minutes, but they did it! :fam

ps. Anyone who says Kessel looked bad in his return is blind.

That's great if you believe that Aaron Ward is better than Derek Morris and that Phil Kessel can singlehandedly replace the production, both offensively and defensively, Michael Ryder and David Krejci. This also goes along with your idea of not signing Begin, which leaves the team with no 3rd or 4th line center on the roster that isn't a rookie and eliminates one of the Bruins top PKers and the side boards guy on the 2nd line PP. The team is weaker on special teams, the defensive end, and its center depth, which was a big strength at the beginning of the year before Savvy's broken foot and the H1N1 hit the team, is essentially zapped.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm

buconvict wrote:
bceagles24 wrote:
buconvict wrote:I'll answer your "where do we find 1.5 million dollars question in all caps, since you obviously didn't see it before.

DON'T SIGN MORRIS FOR 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS. TRADE SOMEONE SHITTY LIKE STURM OR RYDER. DON'T GIVE KREJCI 3.5 MILLION A YEAR SO HE CAN SCORE ONE FUCKING GOAL IN 15 GAMES.

Clear enough for you? The Bruins blow because they cheaped out. But hey, at least they scored a goal last night! It only took 179 minutes, but they did it! :fam

ps. Anyone who says Kessel looked bad in his return is blind.



Krejci has an all around game. He sets people up a lot,can score,and is a good defensive forward.



Yet somehow has managed 1 goal and 4 assists in 14 games. What a superstar.

Humor me with the amount of games you watched last year? Two? Five? Certainly less than 10.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby bceagles24 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:26 am

buconvict wrote:
bceagles24 wrote:
buconvict wrote:I'll answer your "where do we find 1.5 million dollars question in all caps, since you obviously didn't see it before.

DON'T SIGN MORRIS FOR 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS. TRADE SOMEONE SHITTY LIKE STURM OR RYDER. DON'T GIVE KREJCI 3.5 MILLION A YEAR SO HE CAN SCORE ONE FUCKING GOAL IN 15 GAMES.

Clear enough for you? The Bruins blow because they cheaped out. But hey, at least they scored a goal last night! It only took 179 minutes, but they did it! :fam

ps. Anyone who says Kessel looked bad in his return is blind.



Krejci has an all around game. He sets people up a lot,can score,and is a good defensive forward.



Yet somehow has managed 1 goal and 4 assists in 14 games. What a superstar.


If you have watched games from this year,and last year you would realize that he is still not 100%. He was supposed to be out as long as Kessel was whcik brings him back this week.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:01 pm

flyingelvii wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:Oh of course, how could I forget about Daniel Paille, or "Kobasew Lite" as you described him after telling me how awful Kobasew is. :dildodog

I didn't say Kobasew sucked. I said he's a solid 3rd liner that isn't a real contributor on special teams. But again, you seem to have forgotten that. I'm shocked. Paille, on the other hand, is a 3rd/4th liner that can play the PK very effectively.

Edit: I did say Kobasew was overpaid. Overpaid doesn't mean suck though. Just that he's making a lot more than he should given his production level.


You emphasized, at great length, how little impact Kobasew had and how ineffective he was. Now you're trying to convince me that "Kobasew Lite" (your words, not mine, which would generally mean someone similar to Kobasew but inferior) is going to make an impact. I'm supposed to be jacked and pumped about that?
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby eepstein0 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 pm

See again, in hockey, there's this thing called penalties. And then when your team commits then, you have to go on the penalty kill. Paille has been instrumental on improving the B's penalty kill, which was horrible early in the season. Kobasew didn't play on the PK. Thus Paille has really improved the team because the PK has been much better.

Endless Mike wrote:
flyingelvii wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:Oh of course, how could I forget about Daniel Paille, or "Kobasew Lite" as you described him after telling me how awful Kobasew is. :dildodog

I didn't say Kobasew sucked. I said he's a solid 3rd liner that isn't a real contributor on special teams. But again, you seem to have forgotten that. I'm shocked. Paille, on the other hand, is a 3rd/4th liner that can play the PK very effectively.

Edit: I did say Kobasew was overpaid. Overpaid doesn't mean suck though. Just that he's making a lot more than he should given his production level.


You emphasized, at great length, how little impact Kobasew had and how ineffective he was. Now you're trying to convince me that "Kobasew Lite" (your words, not mine, which would generally mean someone similar to Kobasew but inferior) is going to make an impact. I'm supposed to be jacked and pumped about that?
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:22 pm

eepstein0 wrote:See again, in hockey, there's this thing called penalties. And then when your team commits then, you have to go on the penalty kill. Paille has been instrumental on improving the B's penalty kill, which was horrible early in the season. Kobasew didn't play on the PK. Thus Paille has really improved the team because the PK has been much better.

Endless Mike wrote:
flyingelvii wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:Oh of course, how could I forget about Daniel Paille, or "Kobasew Lite" as you described him after telling me how awful Kobasew is. :dildodog

I didn't say Kobasew sucked. I said he's a solid 3rd liner that isn't a real contributor on special teams. But again, you seem to have forgotten that. I'm shocked. Paille, on the other hand, is a 3rd/4th liner that can play the PK very effectively.

Edit: I did say Kobasew was overpaid. Overpaid doesn't mean suck though. Just that he's making a lot more than he should given his production level.


You emphasized, at great length, how little impact Kobasew had and how ineffective he was. Now you're trying to convince me that "Kobasew Lite" (your words, not mine, which would generally mean someone similar to Kobasew but inferior) is going to make an impact. I'm supposed to be jacked and pumped about that?


:dildodog

Thanks fuckface, even though that has nothing to do with the point I am making. Try re-reading my post. He compared Paille unfavorably to Kobasew by calling him "Kobasew Lite". Even you should be able to figure out how dumb that is.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:48 pm

That was also before I'd seen Paille play. He's a totally different player than Kobasew so the comparison isn't totally apt. But again Kobasew isn't a player who you should be excited about. Neither is Paille. They're depth guys who shouldn't be in the top 6 and are generally very replaceable.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:27 pm

flyingelvii wrote:That was also before I'd seen Paille play. He's a totally different player than Kobasew so the comparison isn't totally apt. But again Kobasew isn't a player who you should be excited about. Neither is Paille. They're depth guys who shouldn't be in the top 6 and are generally very replaceable.


In other words, the trades didn't make this team better. Paille is no better than Kobasew. No one is replacing Kessel. Contenders don't make moves like this.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:02 pm

Yes but you are living in the pipe dream that teams can sign every FA they have and keep all their other players at a reasonable price. Sometimes you have to cut ties with good players because they will negatively affect your ability to build a consistently competitive team. It's not ideal but we're not working with the pre-lockout rules now.

Edit: They also got cap space for this year and next year. That is vital if they make a deal and for signing their guys in the offseason. But fuck building teams that can sustain success.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:09 pm

Once again, see you at the payroll flexibility parade. :fam
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:31 pm

So this confirms that you have no clue as to the economics and strategies of the modern NHL. B's take up all their payroll this year and you bitch when they lose a combo of Stuart, Wheeler, Savard, and others whose names elude me. Welcome to fantasyland.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:29 pm

flyingelvii wrote:So this confirms that you have no clue as to the economics and strategies of the modern NHL. B's take up all their payroll this year and you bitch when they lose a combo of Stuart, Wheeler, Savard, and others whose names elude me. Welcome to fantasyland.


And this confirms that you don't actually give a shit about the team competing now. Speaking of fantasyland, aren't you the one who said these moves were made to make room for a bigger one? Oh never mind, Kessel is crippling the entire organization financially in addition to making everyone cry in the locker room, so they have to cut payroll in October. :koolaid
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:15 am

You are completely correct on your last point. They do have assets that thwy can move for a bigger player, especially one in his last year of his deal. Doesn't have to be Kovy but it can be someone, kinda like what Recchi did for the team last year (but that Lashoff guy has soooooo much potential that he passed through waivers). And yes Kessel's contract would hamper them now and in the future in making deals this year and signing people next year. Hoo-Rah for coming over to my side.

Edit: And plese stop with the images. They make you sound more amatuerish than you actually are. We don't need clip art to discuss this. It's a crutch and it's retarded. Say what you want to about me in words. I can take it.

Very late edit: I give a shit about this team competing now and sustaining this level of competition into the future. Professional sports are more than one year endeavors. I want the B's to become Detroit. Won't happen in the same exact way as Detroit likes to hand out the 12-year contracts that Chia seems to be against but I believe the general mold can happen with Chia and Killa Cam at the helm, seeing as how they turned a team from a lottery team to a playoff team to the top team in the East in the regular season over two offseasons. Again, I apologize for having optimism in the Bruins, their farm, and their front office (again with the Recchi deal...they got him and a Tampa second for literally nothing of value). That must make me a shitty fan because I don't bitch about every single minute move that happens.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:15 am

flyingelvii wrote:You are completely correct on your last point. They do have assets that thwy can move for a bigger player, especially one in his last year of his deal. Doesn't have to be Kovy but it can be someone, kinda like what Recchi did for the team last year (but that Lashoff guy has soooooo much potential that he passed through waivers). And yes Kessel's contract would hamper them now and in the future in making deals this year and signing people next year. Hoo-Rah for coming over to my side.

Edit: And plese stop with the images. They make you sound more amatuerish than you actually are. We don't need clip art to discuss this. It's a crutch and it's retarded. Say what you want to about me in words. I can take it.

Very late edit: I give a shit about this team competing now and sustaining this level of competition into the future. Professional sports are more than one year endeavors. I want the B's to become Detroit. Won't happen in the same exact way as Detroit likes to hand out the 12-year contracts that Chia seems to be against but I believe the general mold can happen with Chia and Killa Cam at the helm, seeing as how they turned a team from a lottery team to a playoff team to the top team in the East in the regular season over two offseasons. Again, I apologize for having optimism in the Bruins, their farm, and their front office (again with the Recchi deal...they got him and a Tampa second for literally nothing of value). That must make me a shitty fan because I don't bitch about every single minute move that happens.



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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:24 am

Ah, yes. The classic "I have no counter-argument so I'll put up a bunch of pictures in an attempt to ridicule another poster and hide the fact that I have nothing to add because my initial argument is riddled with holes which have been greatly exploited but because I've posted so much on this site and people know my internet persona, others that don't read the whole thread must think I'm right." Way to go with that one.

And fuck it, I'll throw this question to you as well. How would you have cleared the necessary cap space to sign Kessel at $5.4 million AAV AND make the Bruins a better team? All I've seen is that they shouldn't have signed Kessel and shouldn't have traded Kobasew. It's time to put some analysis into your answers. Again, make me eat crow.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:40 am

flyingelvii wrote: And yes Kessel's contract would hamper them now and in the future in making deals this year and signing people next year. Hoo-Rah for coming over to my side.

.



I hope the Bs are clearing salary so they can get an impact player like ... wait for it ... Kessel.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:45 pm

They don't need, and probably can't afford, an impact player. They actually should be getting one back in a few days and two more back in a matter of weeks. Again, look at the Pens record last year at the break before claiming that the B's are doomed this year. This can get turned around.
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby Endless Mike on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:24 pm

flyingelvii wrote:Ah, yes. The classic "I have no counter-argument so I'll put up a bunch of pictures in an attempt to ridicule another poster and hide the fact that I have nothing to add because my initial argument is riddled with holes which have been greatly exploited but because I've posted so much on this site and people know my internet persona, others that don't read the whole thread must think I'm right." Way to go with that one.

And fuck it, I'll throw this question to you as well. How would you have cleared the necessary cap space to sign Kessel at $5.4 million AAV AND make the Bruins a better team? All I've seen is that they shouldn't have signed Kessel and shouldn't have traded Kobasew. It's time to put some analysis into your answers. Again, make me eat crow.


:dildodog :dildodog :dildodog

I don't have anything else to say because you're either too thick to figure this shit out or too much of an OJesque asshole who wants to keep a thread going 4 pages for the sake of recycling an argument ad nauseaum.

This team, other than Savard, is made up of a bunch of gritty forwards. Those guys are nice to have, but a bunch of PJ Axelssons are not going to win the Cup. When your offense is anemic even when the team is healthy, I would not advise trading last season's top scorer for some draft picks, then turn around and trade a solid scorer for the rights to a rookie and some more draft picks, unless you've already given up on the current season. Now, if those moves were to make room for more offense, then fine, I will be pleasantly suprised if they can pull that off. But it looks to me that they made a move to cut payroll in October so they can have more flexibility in 2011/2012, which is a fucking defeatest move to make so early in the season.

:toby

You can eat all the crow, and dick, you want. Have at it hoss.

:dildodog :dildodog :dildodog
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Re: Bruins trade Kobasew

Postby eepstein0 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:03 pm

I'm also quitting on this argument. Evil, you're right, the rest of you are retarded. I'll post again and bring this thread back up in like February when the B's get hot.
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