COY

[Bumpers]

If Coach Ratface gets this over the Don, I'll do something, so help me.

[cvilleagle]

Although I hate Duke, I actually have a lot of respect for the job Coach K does.

But come on, beating up on a down ACC with the kind of talent that he has is not much of a coaching accomplishment. As the article points out, though - after him, who do you pick?

Roy Williams? NO.

Brownell? I can see it, at least a little.

Greenberg? God I hope not.

Donahue is the next obvious choice.

The rest of the coaches in the league other than Gary Williams and Tony Bennett are pathetic, and neither of those guys has had a good season.

[Bumpers]

Although I hate Duke, I actually have a lot of respect for the job Coach K does.

But come on, beating up on a down ACC with the kind of talent that he has is not much of a coaching accomplishment. As the article points out, though - after him, who do you pick?

Roy Williams? NO.

Brownell? I can see it, at least a little.

Greenberg? God I hope not.

Donahue is the next obvious choice.

The rest of the coaches in the league other than Gary Williams and Tony Bennett are pathetic, and neither of those guys has had a good season.

Among them all, Donohue is the easy choice to me, primarily as the best of the worst. No question this was a down year in the conference, the only bright spot being a 2nd half surge by UNC. That being said, you can't give it to Roy because, well, its universally accepted outside of UNC circles that Roy is the worst gameday coach in the business.


That leaves the race between Ratface and the Don, and that isn't a close call. The Don lost Sanders (11 and 7), Ravenel (a big body behind Southern) and Roche (20 mins and 7 pts per game). The Don lost the entire recruiting class, including MN Mr. B B. He replaced those holes with two walk-ons and great coaching. While we had the core of the team returning, minus Sanders (he was more flabber than core), they underperformed as compared to this year. Even Biko has played much bettter, particularly before his injury. He has bested the projected finish by far (likely 4 vs 10 finish), and has us perched on the verge of a tournament berth for the first time in three years.

All Ratface has done is take his Championship team (almost identical to last year's squad) through a mediocre ACC, losing to VT and FSU amid a SOS of 36. Nothing of note in that. Looks like he mailed it in to me.

[BCEagles25]

Brownell is also a first year ACC coach who has exceeded expectations.

[BCMcG]

Why is it so much about expectations? Shouldn't Coach K get credit for putting together a team that established such high expectations? He's the best coach in the conference and he should be awarded Coach of the Year.

That said, the fact that Donahue has rotated multiple walk-on players in his starting lineup throughout the season and still finished in the top half of the ACC should draw some deserved consideration for the award.

[Bumpers]

If its a three horse race of legit candidates among Ratface, the Don and Brownell, the Don cancels out Brownell because the Don wins on th h2h of the two of the 3 most similarly situated - 1st year coaches of previosuly middling teams who have made susbtantial strides in improving the teams. The Don wins becasue he had less to work with IMO and so has accomplished more. I know Teddy would disagree with that, with his 20 win prediction and all, but everyone had 20+ wins for the team last year with Rakim and see how that did. I did not see 20 wins, and am impressed that the Don is looking like he'll get it done in the ACCT.

That leaves the race as Ratface vs. the Don. As I said, that has to go to the Don, because you can't give an attaboy coaching nod to a coach who has high expectations because of the talent advantage, who only achieves medicre results considering the talent. That nod has to go to the coach who blew out expectations with mediocre talent, by all appearances becasue of an excellent coaching job.

The award is COY, not CODecade. This year, it goes to the Don.

[eepstein0]

Coach K is the best coach in the country. Those two Miami losses are going to cost Donahue coach of the year. Voting will go something like this:

(1) Coach K (60%)
(2) Donahue (25%)
(3) Brownell (15%)

[twballgame9]

For me, it is Brownell, followed by the Don.

[BCEagle74]

Coach K is the best coach in the country. Those two Miami losses are going to cost Donahue coach of the year. Voting will go something like this:

(3) Coach K (30%)
(2) Donahue (32%)
(1) Brownell (38%)

--- I mean Duke has the talent?

Duke may get Bunny 5, but Clemson was a major overhaul.

[eepstein0]

For me, it is Brownell, followed by the Don.

How about after Clemson loses @ Duke, VT and then their first game in the ACCT to finish their usual late season demise.

I still think Coach K is winning this.

[BCEagle74]

For me, it is Brownell, followed by the Don.

How about after Clemson loses @ Duke, VT and then their first game in the ACCT to finish their usual late season demise.

I still think Coach K is winning this.

I think Coach K will win too as do most, but my rankings stand.

[pick6pedro]

Coach K is the best coach in the country. Those two Miami losses are going to cost Donahue coach of the year. Voting will go something like this:

(1) Coach K (60%)
(2) Donahue (25%)
(3) Brownell (15%)

This. Completely disregarding that the coach brought in the talent and weighing mostly on improvement is silly.

[twballgame9]

Coach K is the best coach in the country. Those two Miami losses are going to cost Donahue coach of the year. Voting will go something like this:

(1) Coach K (60%)
(2) Donahue (25%)
(3) Brownell (15%)

This. Completely disregarding that the coach brought in the talent and weighing mostly on improvement is silly.

So the guy that wins the most games is always the best coach? I can see the correlation between winning and coaching, but I think this takes it too far. You get a title for winning the most games - the best coach should be the guy that coaches the best, whether that be overcoming injury, taking over a new program, turning around a bad record, while winning a lot of games. I would go Brownell, Don, K (mostly because of what he did when Irving went down, not just because of his record).

[Bumpers]

Coach K is the best coach in the country. Those two Miami losses are going to cost Donahue coach of the year. Voting will go something like this:

(1) Coach K (60%)
(2) Donahue (25%)
(3) Brownell (15%)

This. Completely disregarding that the coach brought in the talent and weighing mostly on improvement is silly.

I think it is silly to conflate coaching and recruiting. People who do that are the ones who think Roy W is the best coach in the country. There is an inverse relationship when it comes to talent and coaching.

Coach K is a great recruiter, and a great coach. I don't dispute that. But this year, he wa pre-season #1, has the #35 SOS, and has lost three games with pretty much the same team he won a chanmpionship with last year. Is he a great coach? Yes

Is he coach of the year in the ACC considering 2 of his losses were to middle third ACC teams? Given what he has to work with, I don't think you can say that, at least not to the exclusion of the job the Don has done with upper-classmen and recruit defections, and patchwork line-ups with walk-ons. For crissakes, CAL has started the last two games and we won!

[bcbcbcbcbc4444]

Why is it so much about expectations? Shouldn't Coach K get credit for putting together a team that established such high expectations? He's the best coach in the conference and he should be awarded Coach of the Year.

That said, the fact that Donahue has rotated multiple walk-on players in his starting lineup throughout the season and still finished in the top half of the ACC should draw some deserved consideration for the award.

+1 i was going to say the same thing. Coach K has single handedly built Duke into arguably the best college basketball program in the country. The whole idea that the coach of the year should be chosen based on expectations is a little ridiculous. If you're really choosing the COY based on who has done the best job, Coach K should win every single year.

[pick6pedro]

Coach K is the best coach in the country. Those two Miami losses are going to cost Donahue coach of the year. Voting will go something like this:

(1) Coach K (60%)
(2) Donahue (25%)
(3) Brownell (15%)

This. Completely disregarding that the coach brought in the talent and weighing mostly on improvement is silly.

So the guy that wins the most games is always the best coach? I can see the correlation between winning and coaching, but I think this takes it too far. You get a title for winning the most games - the best coach should be the guy that coaches the best, whether that be overcoming injury, taking over a new program, turning around a bad record, while winning a lot of games. I would go Brownell, Don, K (mostly because of what he did when Irving went down, not just because of his record).

Show me where I said the guy who wins the most is always the best coach. Thanks.

[pick6pedro]

Coach K is the best coach in the country. Those two Miami losses are going to cost Donahue coach of the year. Voting will go something like this:

(1) Coach K (60%)
(2) Donahue (25%)
(3) Brownell (15%)

This. Completely disregarding that the coach brought in the talent and weighing mostly on improvement is silly.

I think it is silly to conflate coaching and recruiting. People who do that are the ones who think Roy W is the best coach in the country. There is an inverse relationship when it comes to talent and coaching.

Coach K is a great recruiter, and a great coach. I don't dispute that. But this year, he wa pre-season #1, has the #35 SOS, and has lost three games with pretty much the same team he won a chanmpionship with last year. Is he a great coach? Yes

Is he coach of the year in the ACC considering 2 of his losses were to middle third ACC teams? Given what he has to work with, I don't think you can say that, at least not to the exclusion of the job the Don has done with upper-classmen and recruit defections, and patchwork line-ups with walk-ons. For crissakes, CAL has started the last two games and we won!

Whether you like it or not coaching and recruiting are both part of a coach's job, so it's not silly to use them both to evaluate COY. Perhaps the Don has done a better job as a coach, but the above is how the award will shake out.

[bignick33]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

[Eagledom]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

He didn't clean house. He started with shit. There is a difference.

[bignick33]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

He didn't clean house. He started with shit. There is a difference.

[Eagledom]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

He didn't clean house. He started with shit. There is a difference.

Nope...nice try...can't claim I missed the point when there was a major hole in your logic.

[Eagledom]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

He didn't clean house. He started with shit. There is a difference.

please confirm that you believe rakim sanders would not have helped this team in any way.

kthxbye

you don't really understand what "cleaned house" means.

[bignick33]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

He didn't clean house. He started with shit. There is a difference.

Nope...nice try...can't claim I missed the point when there was a major hole in your logic.

If they're such "shit," then using their loss as a COY argument is pretty stupid, no?

[cvilleagle]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

Did we ever definitively figure out why Rakim left? I mean, there's a difference between Donahue saying

"Rakim, you're fat, get the hell out",

and him saying

"Rakim, you're carrying some extra weight. We need to hit that cardio hard in the offseason."

I'm willing to bet it was more along the lines of the 2nd statement, in which case it's perfectly rational to say "Rakim was a good player who could have helped this team" and to praise the Don for trying to force him to get into the shape to do so, even if he was unsuccessful.

[Eagledom]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

He didn't clean house. He started with shit. There is a difference.

Nope...nice try...can't claim I missed the point when there was a major hole in your logic.

If they're such "shit," then using their loss as a COY argument is pretty stupid, no?

That would be a good point if anyone were arguing that.

[bignick33]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

Did we ever definitively figure out why Rakim left? I mean, there's a difference between Donahue saying

"Rakim, you're fat, get the hell out",

and him saying

"Rakim, you're carrying some extra weight. We need to hit that cardio hard in the offseason."

I'm willing to bet it was more along the lines of the 2nd statement, in which case it's perfectly rational to say "Rakim was a good player who could have helped this team" and to praise the Don for trying to force him to get into the shape to do so, even if he was unsuccessful.

This is as good argument as I've read in this thread, but I still think it's pretty tenuous. Part of a coach's responsibility to make sure everyone is on the same page. There will always be a variety of personalities and levels of motivation. A good leader is able to relate to everyone and provide the type of guidance that precipitates the success of each individual (which then leads to the success of the whole). Whether intended or unintended, Donahue lost Sanders, Ravanel, and the entire recruiting class. Some of these guys decidedly could have helped the team in the short-term, even if the chain of events that led to their departures is good for the program in the long-term. I'm not so much assessing blame for the stuff that happened nine months ago as I'm saying that the coach is responsible for all aspects of the program. Whether or not you think that "cleaning house" was smart, it's contradictory to praise him for the decision and argue that it was major impediment. It was a conscious decision.

[bignick33]

That would be a good point if anyone were arguing that.

Of course they are. The "cupboard was bare" argument is prevalent. You often use it yourself to disparage our former coach. Here is one example of that argument in this very thread.

That leaves the race between Ratface and the Don, and that isn't a close call. The Don lost Sanders (11 and 7), Ravenel (a big body behind Southern) and Roche (20 mins and 7 pts per game). The Don lost the entire recruiting class, including MN Mr. B B. He replaced those holes with two walk-ons and great coaching. While we had the core of the team returning, minus Sanders (he was more flabber than core), they underperformed as compared to this year. Even Biko has played much bettter, particularly before his injury. He has bested the projected finish by far (likely 4 vs 10 finish), and has us perched on the verge of a tournament berth for the first time in three years.

[Eagledom]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

Did we ever definitively figure out why Rakim left? I mean, there's a difference between Donahue saying

"Rakim, you're fat, get the hell out",

and him saying

"Rakim, you're carrying some extra weight. We need to hit that cardio hard in the offseason."

I'm willing to bet it was more along the lines of the 2nd statement, in which case it's perfectly rational to say "Rakim was a good player who could have helped this team" and to praise the Don for trying to force him to get into the shape to do so, even if he was unsuccessful.

This is as good argument as I've read in this thread, but I still think it's pretty tenuous. Part of a coach's responsibility to make sure everyone is on the same page. There will always be a variety of personalities and levels of motivation. A good leader is able to relate to everyone and provide the type of guidance that precipitates the success of each individual (which then leads to the success of the whole). Whether intended or unintended, Donahue lost Sanders, Ravanel, and the entire recruiting class. Some of these guys decidedly could have helped the team in the short-term, even if the chain of events that led to their departures is good for the program in the long-term. I'm not so much assessing blame for the stuff that happened nine months ago as I'm saying that the coach is responsible for all aspects of the program. Whether or not you think that "cleaning house" was smart, it's contradictory to praise him for the decision and argue that it was major impediment. It was a conscious decision.

You are missing the point. The talent level is an impediment now and it would have been an impediment had everyone stayed on board. No one is saying donahue should be COY because we lost Ravenel and Sanders. They are saying he should be COY because he has done more with less...and arument that wouldn't change even if Sanders and Ravenel were still here.

[bignick33]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

Did we ever definitively figure out why Rakim left? I mean, there's a difference between Donahue saying

"Rakim, you're fat, get the hell out",

and him saying

"Rakim, you're carrying some extra weight. We need to hit that cardio hard in the offseason."

I'm willing to bet it was more along the lines of the 2nd statement, in which case it's perfectly rational to say "Rakim was a good player who could have helped this team" and to praise the Don for trying to force him to get into the shape to do so, even if he was unsuccessful.

This is as good argument as I've read in this thread, but I still think it's pretty tenuous. Part of a coach's responsibility to make sure everyone is on the same page. There will always be a variety of personalities and levels of motivation. A good leader is able to relate to everyone and provide the type of guidance that precipitates the success of each individual (which then leads to the success of the whole). Whether intended or unintended, Donahue lost Sanders, Ravanel, and the entire recruiting class. Some of these guys decidedly could have helped the team in the short-term, even if the chain of events that led to their departures is good for the program in the long-term. I'm not so much assessing blame for the stuff that happened nine months ago as I'm saying that the coach is responsible for all aspects of the program. Whether or not you think that "cleaning house" was smart, it's contradictory to praise him for the decision and argue that it was major impediment. It was a conscious decision.

You are missing the point. The talent level is an impediment now and it would have been an impediment had everyone stayed on board. No one is saying donahue should be COY because we lost Ravenel and Sanders. They are saying he should be COY because he has done more with less...and arument that wouldn't change even if Sanders and Ravenel were still here.

I guess the joke is on me. You can't possibly be this dense.

[pick6pedro]

I think people who on one hand praise Don for cleaning house and on the other hand say that it's an impediment that should be considered in the COY are funny.

There, I said it.

Did we ever definitively figure out why Rakim left? I mean, there's a difference between Donahue saying

"Rakim, you're fat, get the hell out",

and him saying

"Rakim, you're carrying some extra weight. We need to hit that cardio hard in the offseason."

I'm willing to bet it was more along the lines of the 2nd statement, in which case it's perfectly rational to say "Rakim was a good player who could have helped this team" and to praise the Don for trying to force him to get into the shape to do so, even if he was unsuccessful.

This is as good argument as I've read in this thread, but I still think it's pretty tenuous. Part of a coach's responsibility to make sure everyone is on the same page. There will always be a variety of personalities and levels of motivation. A good leader is able to relate to everyone and provide the type of guidance that precipitates the success of each individual (which then leads to the success of the whole). Whether intended or unintended, Donahue lost Sanders, Ravanel, and the entire recruiting class. Some of these guys decidedly could have helped the team in the short-term, even if the chain of events that led to their departures is good for the program in the long-term. I'm not so much assessing blame for the stuff that happened nine months ago as I'm saying that the coach is responsible for all aspects of the program. Whether or not you think that "cleaning house" was smart, it's contradictory to praise him for the decision and argue that it was major impediment. It was a conscious decision.

You are missing the point. The talent level is an impediment now and it would have been an impediment had everyone stayed on board. No one is saying donahue should be COY because we lost Ravenel and Sanders. They are saying he should be COY because he has done more with less...and arument that wouldn't change even if Sanders and Ravenel were still here.

Before referring to what other people said, it might serve you well to read what they said. Just sayin.