On The Subject Of Skinner Bashing

[EagleDave]

Here's some more thinly veiled shots at the departed coach...this time from Josh Southern...

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/coll ... n_college/

I'm pretty sure we've heard from no less than 4 players on this team who have compared Skinner's departure to waking up from a 2-3 year basketball coma.

[Dirtywater75]

Your reference to a two to three year basketball coma during Skinner's final years perfectly sums up the situation we were in.

[eepstein0]

Southern has been a big key to this team, no doubt about it.

[BCEagle74]

Yeah. Thanks.

Who knew....

Skinner Recruiting Probation....4-5 years ago.

Barcolounger...3 years ago..

Lazy Elvis.....The Hurley comment....

Yeah, senile...idiot...

Where is DGF..my wing man....

Try taking shots at the guy when he is still in full command like TOB, SPAZOO, NEMO, TOPOO, GDF.....

Not when he has flown the Aerie????????????????????

Kicking Lazy Elvis now is like.....

[twballgame9]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

[Cadillac90]

Lazy Elvis.....The Hurley comment....

It's funny...you keep referring to Lazy Elvis and the Hurley comment yet you neglect to mention what Hurley said immediately after the Elvis remark.

[Eagledom]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

Really? That's your take away from this? That's some serious spin.

What's sad is that a head coach felt that it wasn't part of his job description to try to motivate 18 year old kids to work on their games while he was working on his at the plex.

[eepstein0]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

Really? That's your take away from this? That's some serious spin.

What's sad is that a head coach felt that it wasn't part of his job description to try to motivate 18 year old kids to work on their games while he was working on his at the plex.

Oh dear not this again.

[BCEagle74]

Lazy Elvis.....The Hurley comment....

It's funny...you keep referring to Lazy Elvis and the Hurley comment yet you neglect to mention what Hurley said immediately after the Elvis remark.

Caddy... You always catch me...reverse facial....



You are one the few qualified to zing me!!

[twballgame9]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

Really? That's your take away from this? That's some serious spin.

What's sad is that a head coach felt that it wasn't part of his job description to try to motivate 18 year old kids to work on their games while he was working on his at the plex.

Too easy.

My take from this is that a bunch of jackasses are spending more time thinking about the old coach they wanted gone than the new coach that they wanted here. Me, I prefer to think about the new coach, and I didn't even hate the old one.

[Eagledom]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

Really? That's your take away from this? That's some serious spin.

What's sad is that a head coach felt that it wasn't part of his job description to try to motivate 18 year old kids to work on their games while he was working on his at the plex.

Too easy.

My take from this is that a bunch of jackasses are spending more time thinking about the old coach they wanted gone than the new coach that they wanted here. Me, I prefer to think about the new coach, and I didn't even hate the old one.

I don't waste my time thinking about our old coach until I come across a post like this and see a response from someone who was too busy telling everyone how great that old coach was to realize the shit job he was doing.

[twballgame9]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

Really? That's your take away from this? That's some serious spin.

What's sad is that a head coach felt that it wasn't part of his job description to try to motivate 18 year old kids to work on their games while he was working on his at the plex.

Too easy.

My take from this is that a bunch of jackasses are spending more time thinking about the old coach they wanted gone than the new coach that they wanted here. Me, I prefer to think about the new coach, and I didn't even hate the old one.

I don't waste my time thinking about our old coach until I come across a post like this and see a response from someone who was too busy telling everyone how great that old coach was to realize the shit job he was doing.

Like I said, yesterday's news. You are good at that.

[Eagledom]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

Really? That's your take away from this? That's some serious spin.

What's sad is that a head coach felt that it wasn't part of his job description to try to motivate 18 year old kids to work on their games while he was working on his at the plex.

Too easy.

My take from this is that a bunch of jackasses are spending more time thinking about the old coach they wanted gone than the new coach that they wanted here. Me, I prefer to think about the new coach, and I didn't even hate the old one.

I don't waste my time thinking about our old coach until I come across a post like this and see a response from someone who was too busy telling everyone how great that old coach was to realize the shit job he was doing.

Like I said, yesterday's news. You are good at that.

not to mention that the names TOB and Jags come up on a daily basis, but its only when Skinner's name comes up that we hear complaing from the people who were so wrong about him.

[Shredder]

That's a really good article. More important is that Southern is playing more minutes this year but I am still skeptical over his increased scoring. Last year he played 11 min. with 5 points against South Carolina, 22 and 6 against RI, 23 and 2 against MD, 31 and 11 against Providence, 7 min and 6 pts against UMass. This year against those same teams he has 13 min and 2 points against SC, 26 and 2 against RI, 21 and 6 against MD and 30, 16 against Providence and 28 and 16 against UMass.

[Cadillac90]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

Really? That's your take away from this? That's some serious spin.

What's sad is that a head coach felt that it wasn't part of his job description to try to motivate 18 year old kids to work on their games while he was working on his at the plex.

Too easy.

My take from this is that a bunch of jackasses are spending more time thinking about the old coach they wanted gone than the new coach that they wanted here. Me, I prefer to think about the new coach, and I didn't even hate the old one.

I don't waste my time thinking about our old coach until I come across a post like this and see a response from someone who was too busy telling everyone how great that old coach was to realize the shit job he was doing.

Like I said, yesterday's news. You are good at that.

not to mention that the names TOB and Jags come up on a daily basis, but its only when Skinner's name comes up that we hear complaing from the people who were so wrong about him.

Speaking of being wrong...there are still plenty of TOB and Jags defenders out there that do plenty of complaining. You are just a simpleton and not worth anyone's time.

[Eagledom]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

Really? That's your take away from this? That's some serious spin.

What's sad is that a head coach felt that it wasn't part of his job description to try to motivate 18 year old kids to work on their games while he was working on his at the plex.

Too easy.

My take from this is that a bunch of jackasses are spending more time thinking about the old coach they wanted gone than the new coach that they wanted here. Me, I prefer to think about the new coach, and I didn't even hate the old one.

I don't waste my time thinking about our old coach until I come across a post like this and see a response from someone who was too busy telling everyone how great that old coach was to realize the shit job he was doing.

Like I said, yesterday's news. You are good at that.

not to mention that the names TOB and Jags come up on a daily basis, but its only when Skinner's name comes up that we hear complaing from the people who were so wrong about him.

You are just a simpleton and not worth anyone's time.

Obviously I am worth your time. Thanks for responding.

[eepstein0]

Will you two please stop the ....

[HJS]

Honest question... can someone link to a thread where an OJ post didn't fall into a another (which he went on to lose)?

I have been trying to think of something... anything... that OJ adds to this place (opinion, insight, grammar corrector) and all I come up with is slapfight instigator (and loser).

[pick6pedro]

Honest question... can someone link to a thread where an OJ post didn't fall into a another (which he went on to lose)?

I have been trying to think of something... anything... that OJ adds to this place (opinion, insight, grammar corrector) and all I come up with is slapfight instigator (and loser).

I think he's lobbying to be a colored name. nope, he's just a the king of pricks

[Hunta518]

Pretty sad that Al recruited a bunch of kids that needed to be motivated to work on their games. Dammit Al!

*was that good?

Really? That's your take away from this? That's some serious spin.

What's sad is that a head coach felt that it wasn't part of his job description to try to motivate 18 year old kids to work on their games while he was working on his at the plex.

Too easy.

My take from this is that a bunch of jackasses are spending more time thinking about the old coach they wanted gone than the new coach that they wanted here. Me, I prefer to think about the new coach, and I didn't even hate the old one.

I don't waste my time thinking about our old coach until I come across a post like this and see a response from someone who was too busy telling everyone how great that old coach was to realize the shit job he was doing.

Like I said, yesterday's news. You are good at that.

not to mention that the names TOB and Jags come up on a daily basis, but its only when Skinner's name comes up that we hear complaing from the people who were so wrong about him.

You are just a simpleton and not worth anyone's time.

Obviously I am worth your time. Thanks for responding.

Yeeeeee you tell 'em OJ

[auggiebc]

I'm not a Skinner basher. But is it not eye-popping to see this current team, which is just a mere shell of it's '09/'10 self, play so mo much better?

At least so far. Granted it's only January 4th. So alot can happen between now and March.

[EagleNYC]

I struggle to understand the obsession with Skinner bashing, though the general anti-Al sentiment is easy enough to comprehend. Skinner was the winningest coach in BC history, calculated by total wins. He won two BE regular season titles (Clownhoon can blow me) and guided the team to some excellent results during the first few years of ACC play. He developed a string of great players that were not viewed as superstars in HS (Bell, Sidney, Dudley, [despite what some may say, Smith was supposed to be excellent]). There were several big wins each year, and quite a few upsets, particularly on the road. Before his last three years, his teams always played hard; rarely got blown out; weren't afraid of anyone; generaly exceeded regular season expectations. Skinner never spoke about the program's limitations, and his teams never gave up.

Skinner also refused to pander to high school kids, which some blame for failing to land a true blue chip recruit before Sanders/Southern. There were several high profile team rule violations, and, like it or not, the head coach deserves some of the blame, even for the difficult to control actions of entitled 20-somethings. He was a below average ACC coach in terms of clock management, in-bounds plays, and offensive creativity. When he finally did land a the Sanders class, the on court results were disastrous. The last three years were two very bad seasons sandwiched around a disappointing one. The team often played without fire. They played down to their competition. There were embarassing "bad losses." Many of the players didn't seem to improve/progress, and Southern/Sanders were a stiff and a talented but far too erratic presence, respectively. The fan support ebbed back to 1999 levels. The 2009 recruiting class was an unpardonable sin, and the 2010 class was not shaping up well either. The failure to advance past the first weekend of the tourney more than once, despite a decade of competitive teams, was damning. It was time for a change.

But the last three years don't define the Skinner Era, they just explan why it ended. It's natural, particularly in the first year with a new coach, to draw comparisons, especially when the team shows so much promise. But let's not forget the excellence that Skinner brought to the Heights too. If Donahue wins an ACC crown in his first five years, and has the regular season success that Skinner did, we'll all be very pleased. We'll all just hope his record in the field of 64 65 68 is better.

[joemack13]

What annoys me most is people arguing over what this board should be arguing over. This is America, if you hate black people then bash skinner all you want

[RedBaron67]

[despite what some may say, Smith was supposed to be excellent]

Just for the record, I should note that Smith wasn't very well regarded when BC first recruited him as a high school senior in LA; all the PAC-10 teams passed on him because they considered him undersized and overweight. After his post-grad year at Worcester Academy, where Smith got in shape and improved his game, he was a top-50 prospect as an entering freshman; but Skinner and his staff deserve credit for seeing Smith's potential when others didn't.

[EagleNYC]

[despite what some may say, Smith was supposed to be excellent]

Just for the record, I should note that Smith wasn't very well regarded when BC first recruited him as a high school senior in LA; all the PAC-10 teams passed on him because they considered him undersized and overweight. After his post-grad year at Worcester Academy, where Smith got in shape and improved his game, he was a top-50 prospect as an entering freshman; but Skinner and his staff deserve credit for seeing Smith's potential when others didn't.

You've removed the context of the quote, which was aimed at player development, not evaluating talent (a separate point that won't get into).

He developed a string of great players that were not viewed as superstars in HS

As you point out, by the time Smith arrived at Campus, he was indeed highly regarded and viewed as ACC caliber. The three I referenced were raw projects, but won three conference POY awards between them (2 for Bell, 1 for Duds).

[twballgame9]

I struggle to understand the obsession with Skinner bashing, though the general anti-Al sentiment is easy enough to comprehend. Skinner was the winningest coach in BC history, calculated by total wins. He won two BE regular season titles (Clownhoon can blow me) and guided the team to some excellent results during the first few years of ACC play. He developed a string of great players that were not viewed as superstars in HS (Bell, Sidney, Dudley, [despite what some may say, Smith was supposed to be excellent]). There were several big wins each year, and quite a few upsets, particularly on the road. Before his last three years, his teams always played hard; rarely got blown out; weren't afraid of anyone; generaly exceeded regular season expectations. Skinner never spoke about the program's limitations, and his teams never gave up.

Skinner also refused to pander to high school kids, which some blame for failing to land a true blue chip recruit before Sanders/Southern. There were several high profile team rule violations, and, like it or not, the head coach deserves some of the blame, even for the difficult to control actions of entitled 20-somethings. He was a below average ACC coach in terms of clock management, in-bounds plays, and offensive creativity. When he finally did land a the Sanders class, the on court results were disastrous. The last three years were two very bad seasons sandwiched around a disappointing one. The team often played without fire. They played down to their competition. There were embarassing "bad losses." Many of the players didn't seem to improve/progress, and Southern/Sanders were a stiff and a talented but far too erratic presence, respectively. The fan support ebbed back to 1999 levels. The 2009 recruiting class was an unpardonable sin, and the 2010 class was not shaping up well either. The failure to advance past the first weekend of the tourney more than once, despite a decade of competitive teams, was damning. It was time for a change.

But the last three years don't define the Skinner Era, they just explan why it ended. It's natural, particularly in the first year with a new coach, to draw comparisons, especially when the team shows so much promise. But let's not forget the excellence that Skinner brought to the Heights too. If Donahue wins an ACC crown in his first five years, and has the regular season success that Skinner did, we'll all be very pleased. We'll all just hope his record in the field of 64 65 68 is better.

Great post.

[Eagledom]

I struggle to understand the obsession with Skinner bashing, though the general anti-Al sentiment is easy enough to comprehend. Skinner was the winningest coach in BC history, calculated by total wins. He won two BE regular season titles (Clownhoon can blow me) and guided the team to some excellent results during the first few years of ACC play. He developed a string of great players that were not viewed as superstars in HS (Bell, Sidney, Dudley, [despite what some may say, Smith was supposed to be excellent]). There were several big wins each year, and quite a few upsets, particularly on the road. Before his last three years, his teams always played hard; rarely got blown out; weren't afraid of anyone; generaly exceeded regular season expectations. Skinner never spoke about the program's limitations, and his teams never gave up.

Skinner also refused to pander to high school kids, which some blame for failing to land a true blue chip recruit before Sanders/Southern. There were several high profile team rule violations, and, like it or not, the head coach deserves some of the blame, even for the difficult to control actions of entitled 20-somethings. He was a below average ACC coach in terms of clock management, in-bounds plays, and offensive creativity. When he finally did land a the Sanders class, the on court results were disastrous. The last three years were two very bad seasons sandwiched around a disappointing one. The team often played without fire. They played down to their competition. There were embarassing "bad losses." Many of the players didn't seem to improve/progress, and Southern/Sanders were a stiff and a talented but far too erratic presence, respectively. The fan support ebbed back to 1999 levels. The 2009 recruiting class was an unpardonable sin, and the 2010 class was not shaping up well either. The failure to advance past the first weekend of the tourney more than once, despite a decade of competitive teams, was damning. It was time for a change.

But the last three years don't define the Skinner Era, they just explan why it ended. It's natural, particularly in the first year with a new coach, to draw comparisons, especially when the team shows so much promise. But let's not forget the excellence that Skinner brought to the Heights too. If Donahue wins an ACC crown in his first five years, and has the regular season success that Skinner did, we'll all be very pleased. We'll all just hope his record in the field of 64 65 68 is better.

I agree with most of this, but the only thing you don't mention is the fact that Skinner's downward trend coincided with losing key Assistant Coaches. I don't think that can be overstated. And the lack of fire, motivation, and consistency was, by year 10, intolerable. I think all the Skinner "bashers" would agree that he had some good years early, but BC was headed in a very dangerous direction and Gene did the right think by pulling the trigger.

[twballgame9]

I will say this - I liked Al for many reasons, but it is nice to have a coach for whom I do not find myself screaming at the TV regarding the coaching decisions, set plays and adjustments during gametime. Anyone will admit that Al was a terrible in-game coach, and needed a George Blaney or Bernie Fine desperately.

[HJS]

I struggle to understand the obsession with Skinner bashing, though the general anti-Al sentiment is easy enough to comprehend. Skinner was the winningest coach in BC history, calculated by total wins. He won two BE regular season titles (Clownhoon can blow me) and guided the team to some excellent results during the first few years of ACC play. He developed a string of great players that were not viewed as superstars in HS (Bell, Sidney, Dudley, [despite what some may say, Smith was supposed to be excellent]). There were several big wins each year, and quite a few upsets, particularly on the road. Before his last three years, his teams always played hard; rarely got blown out; weren't afraid of anyone; generaly exceeded regular season expectations. Skinner never spoke about the program's limitations, and his teams never gave up.

Skinner also refused to pander to high school kids, which some blame for failing to land a true blue chip recruit before Sanders/Southern. There were several high profile team rule violations, and, like it or not, the head coach deserves some of the blame, even for the difficult to control actions of entitled 20-somethings. He was a below average ACC coach in terms of clock management, in-bounds plays, and offensive creativity. When he finally did land a the Sanders class, the on court results were disastrous. The last three years were two very bad seasons sandwiched around a disappointing one. The team often played without fire. They played down to their competition. There were embarassing "bad losses." Many of the players didn't seem to improve/progress, and Southern/Sanders were a stiff and a talented but far too erratic presence, respectively. The fan support ebbed back to 1999 levels. The 2009 recruiting class was an unpardonable sin, and the 2010 class was not shaping up well either. The failure to advance past the first weekend of the tourney more than once, despite a decade of competitive teams, was damning. It was time for a change.

But the last three years don't define the Skinner Era, they just explan why it ended. It's natural, particularly in the first year with a new coach, to draw comparisons, especially when the team shows so much promise. But let's not forget the excellence that Skinner brought to the Heights too. If Donahue wins an ACC crown in his first five years, and has the regular season success that Skinner did, we'll all be very pleased. We'll all just hope his record in the field of 64 65 68 is better.

Great post.

This.

I think this sentence should be the only words ever needed in discussing Skinner this year: The last three years don't define the Skinner Era, they just explan why it ended.

[2001Eagle]

I struggle to understand the obsession with Skinner bashing, though the general anti-Al sentiment is easy enough to comprehend. Skinner was the winningest coach in BC history, calculated by total wins. He won two BE regular season titles (Clownhoon can blow me) and guided the team to some excellent results during the first few years of ACC play. He developed a string of great players that were not viewed as superstars in HS (Bell, Sidney, Dudley, [despite what some may say, Smith was supposed to be excellent]). There were several big wins each year, and quite a few upsets, particularly on the road. Before his last three years, his teams always played hard; rarely got blown out; weren't afraid of anyone; generaly exceeded regular season expectations. Skinner never spoke about the program's limitations, and his teams never gave up.

Skinner also refused to pander to high school kids, which some blame for failing to land a true blue chip recruit before Sanders/Southern. There were several high profile team rule violations, and, like it or not, the head coach deserves some of the blame, even for the difficult to control actions of entitled 20-somethings. He was a below average ACC coach in terms of clock management, in-bounds plays, and offensive creativity. When he finally did land a the Sanders class, the on court results were disastrous. The last three years were two very bad seasons sandwiched around a disappointing one. The team often played without fire. They played down to their competition. There were embarassing "bad losses." Many of the players didn't seem to improve/progress, and Southern/Sanders were a stiff and a talented but far too erratic presence, respectively. The fan support ebbed back to 1999 levels. The 2009 recruiting class was an unpardonable sin, and the 2010 class was not shaping up well either. The failure to advance past the first weekend of the tourney more than once, despite a decade of competitive teams, was damning. It was time for a change.

But the last three years don't define the Skinner Era, they just explan why it ended. It's natural, particularly in the first year with a new coach, to draw comparisons, especially when the team shows so much promise. But let's not forget the excellence that Skinner brought to the Heights too. If Donahue wins an ACC crown in his first five years, and has the regular season success that Skinner did, we'll all be very pleased. We'll all just hope his record in the field of 64 65 68 is better.

Great post.

This.

I think this sentence should be the only words ever needed in discussing Skinner this year: The last three years don't define the Skinner Era, they just explan why it ended.

I agree with this sentiment entirely as it pertains to the last three years of skinner.

However I was thinking very recently of how I define the Skinner Era (full disclosure, I liked Al alot and would have been fine with giving him one more year) and while I definitely thought of the success he had, I think the defining moment of his tenure at BC was the March 24, 2006 loss to Villanova in Minneapolis. Great basketball, ultimately undone by an inability to get it done at the highest level, with a healthy smattering of clock/time out mismanagement thrown in for good measure.

As a result, I think I'll always have mostly positive memories of Al's time at BC by far, and I'm thankful for the way he represented BC as an institution, but I'll usually end up shaking my head with a rueful smile thinking how much better it could have been .