Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

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Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby bignick33 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:09 am

Aside from Duke, ACC is in decline
In three of past four years, they've produced one Sweet 16 team; that looks to continue


Last week's bracket was noteworthy for a number of reasons. The Butler Bulldogs were absent, nine Big East teams were present and we did our best to recognize better-than-expected play by the likes of Central Florida, Washington State and Cleveland State.

For me, though, the most potentially lasting storyline is that of the sagging Atlantic Coast Conference. Admittedly, the league had seven teams in the above Bracketology link, but aside from the No. 1 Duke Blue Devils, name a team that scares you.

For every Boston College or Virginia success story, there have been multiple occasions when a North Carolina, Florida State, Virginia Tech or NC State has fallen flat.

Instead, the Big Ten, Big East and Big 12 have taken center stage by supplying the next 11 teams (Nos. 2-12) in the Dec. 6 ESPN/USA Today coaches' poll. Another ACC squad (North Carolina) wasn't to be found until the "also receiving votes" category.

Even in its so-called "down" years -- three NCAA tournament bids in 1999 and 2000 -- the ACC featured a few elite teams. Since 1985, the conference has sent at least three teams to March Madness every year -- 1999 and 2000, as noted above, were the three-bid years -- and seven times during that span, they've sent four teams to the Sweet 16, meaning a quarter of the regional semis round was composed of ACC squads.

The ACC's pattern is one of both quantity and quality, of course, but "quality" is the overriding characteristic in good times and in bad. No conference has more national champions, No. 1 seeds, Final Fours and Sweet 16s in the modern era.

But the true measure of ACC dominance is that the league is never a one-trick pony. But last season only Duke cracked the Sweet 16. Could we be headed for a repeat?

For 2011, the projected seeding gap between the best ACC team (Duke at No. 1) and the league's second-best (North Carolina at No. 8) and third-best (Boston College at No. 8) teams is the largest in the history of the conference -- and the muddled middle of the ACC figures to become even more so once full league play begins, knocking more teams off the bubble than on.

Considering all the data, perhaps we should have seen this coming:

• The ACC has never had a second team seeded worse than No. 4 in the history of the expanded NCAA field.

• The ACC has managed only one Sweet 16 team in three of the past four seasons.

• It's been five years since an ACC member not named Duke or North Carolina made it through to the tournament's second weekend.

• The ACC is advancing a far lower percentage of teams in the past 10 to 15 years than when the NCAA tourney expanded to the 64/65 format.

• These declining figures are despite larger (not smaller) ACC membership.

I'll leave it to smarter folks to pinpoint the causes of an ACC decline, as the league had mostly avoided the cyclical nature of strengths and weakness affecting other power conferences. My gut tells me, as has been speculated in the past, that football expansion is the culprit. The absence of a true round-robin schedule, the dilution of certain rivalries and more fragmented fan bases have hurt the basketball product below the Duke-Carolina axis.

I'm not smart enough to tell the ACC what to do about it, but the numbers are as plain as day. The league's seemingly endless run as the "best of the best" may be drawing to a close.

And that was before Kyrie Irving stubbed his toe.

Joe Lunardi is the resident Bracketologist for ESPN, ESPN.com and ESPN Radio. He also teaches Fundamentals of Bracketology online at Saint Joseph's University. Comments may be sent to bracketology@verizon.net.


http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/insider/ ... ortcomings

Lunardi is right; the ACC is very weak this year. Further, there are few teams with the type of freakishly athletic big men that have killed us in past years (Clemson and Wake a couple years, for example). The reason that MD scared me was Williams, but we managed to beat them anyways despite his monstrous game. If there were ever a year in which the ACC basketball schedule is favorable for us, it's this year.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby bignick33 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:21 am

From another ESPN article:

Boston College 79, Maryland 75: Is it time to take Boston College seriously? Steve Donahue's team was picked to finish near the bottom of the ACC before the season began, and a 75-67 home loss to Yale in the second game of the season seemed to confirm those suspicions. Since then, though, the Eagles have gone 7-1 -- their only loss coming to Wisconsin -- and racked up some reasonably impressive wins in the process. Consider Sunday's effort in that vein: Boston College's offense was good enough to beat a very capable Maryland team in the Terrapins' building. BC scored 1.14 points per possession and gave up 1.08 in 63 possessions Sunday. That's not exactly legendary defensive performance, but this is what Boston College does. It scores enough to erase the problems that might arise when you allow opponents to average more that a point per possession.


http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketba ... c-warms-up
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby bignick33 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:34 pm

From the Weekly Watch:

Boston College: Is this really the same team that lost to Yale? Since then, the Eagles are 7-1 and have wins over Texas A&M, Cal, Indiana and Providence and Maryland, the last of which came Sunday night on the road behind Biko Paris' career day (22 points, 6-of-10 from 3). No one could've reasonably expected this 8-2 start for first-year coach Steve Donahue.


http://espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/page/ ... 003/week-3
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby cvilleagle on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:00 pm

ACC is pretty weak this year. We could easily win a bunch of conference games.

Duke is going to crush us, though.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby eepstein0 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:16 pm

cvilleagle {l Wrote}:ACC is pretty weak this year. We could easily win a bunch of conference games.

Duke is going to crush us, though.


Duke will crush anyone. After that, we can beat anyone including a horribly over-rated UNC team.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby BC923 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:11 pm

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
cvilleagle {l Wrote}:ACC is pretty weak this year. We could easily win a bunch of conference games.

Duke is going to crush us, though.


Duke will crush anyone. After that, we can beat anyone including a horribly over-rated UNC team.

The good news is Duke only shows up once, which is only 1 sure loss on the schedule. Obviously we will lose more than that but we have a chance to beat anyone else on the schedule.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby joemack13 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:40 pm

Someone'll beat duke - why not us? :banana
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby BC923 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:25 pm

joemack13 {l Wrote}:Someone'll beat duke - why not us? :banana

The Plumlees. If Duke goes with a big lineup we are fucked, and they have the size to do it. We can beat anybody with at most 1 scoring big man, but you get above that and we have trouble. I might think this could be a toss up, if we played at Conte, but it's at cameron indoor.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby BCMurt09 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:37 pm

BC923 {l Wrote}:
joemack13 {l Wrote}:Someone'll beat duke - why not us? :banana

The Plumlees. If Duke goes with a big lineup we are fucked, and they have the size to do it. We can beat anybody with at most 1 scoring big man, but you get above that and we have trouble. I might think this could be a toss up, if we played at Conte, but it's at cameron indoor.


Two years ago we beat #1 North Carolina in Chapel Hill and they went on to be the National Champions. I'm not saying we will beat Duke but, in the words of the New York Lotto...hey, it could happen.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby bignick33 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:05 am

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
cvilleagle {l Wrote}:ACC is pretty weak this year. We could easily win a bunch of conference games.

Duke is going to crush us, though.


Duke will crush anyone. After that, we can beat anyone including a horribly over-rated UNC team.


I actually think UNC will be a bad matchup for us. They probably have the best big-man in the conference. The way Williams subs (similar to Donahue) keeps them all very fresh. I'm worried that they will wear us down, because for as well as we've played, we are not at all deep up front.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby eepstein0 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 am

bignick33 {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
cvilleagle {l Wrote}:ACC is pretty weak this year. We could easily win a bunch of conference games.

Duke is going to crush us, though.


Duke will crush anyone. After that, we can beat anyone including a horribly over-rated UNC team.


I actually think UNC will be a bad matchup for us. They probably have the best big-man in the conference. The way Williams subs (similar to Donahue) keeps them all very fresh. I'm worried that they will wear us down, because for as well as we've played, we are not at all deep up front.


We'll split with them. Duke is just way too big, that's a match-up nightmare. BC will do fine against teams who aren't super athletic. We'll struggle versus the Duke's and FSU's of the world this season.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby bignick33 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:11 am

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
bignick33 {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
cvilleagle {l Wrote}:ACC is pretty weak this year. We could easily win a bunch of conference games.

Duke is going to crush us, though.


Duke will crush anyone. After that, we can beat anyone including a horribly over-rated UNC team.


I actually think UNC will be a bad matchup for us. They probably have the best big-man in the conference. The way Williams subs (similar to Donahue) keeps them all very fresh. I'm worried that they will wear us down, because for as well as we've played, we are not at all deep up front.


We'll split with them. Duke is just way too big, that's a match-up nightmare. BC will do fine against teams who aren't super athletic. We'll struggle versus the Duke's and FSU's of the world this season.


I'd take a split against UNC. The thing about that team...I already get the sense that they're gonna be pretty Jekkyl-and-Hyde this year. I just hope we don't get their best shot twice.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:23 am

They'll get crushed by Duke unless they shoot the lights out. Even then, they may not win. They'll be lucky to steal a split with UNC. Other than that, they are in pretty good shape.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby RedBaron67 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:15 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:They'll get crushed by Duke unless they shoot the lights out. Even then, they may not win. They'll be lucky to steal a split with UNC. Other than that, they are in pretty good shape.


I think that's a generally sound assessment, although (1) they could make a fairly respectable showing against Duke if Irving is out for the season, and (2) even a split against UNC will be a pretty long shot if both Zeller and Henson continue to play well.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby Art Vandelay on Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:48 am

bignick33 {l Wrote}:

For me, though, the most potentially lasting storyline is that of the sagging Atlantic Coast Conference. Admittedly, the league had seven teams in the above Bracketology link, but aside from the No. 1 Duke Blue Devils, name a team that scares you.

For every Boston College or Virginia success story...

I'll leave it to smarter folks to pinpoint the causes of an ACC decline, as the league had mostly avoided the cyclical nature of strengths and weakness affecting other power conferences. My gut tells me, as has been speculated in the past, that football expansion is the culprit. The absence of a true round-robin schedule, the dilution of certain rivalries and more fragmented fan bases have hurt the basketball product below the Duke-Carolina axis.



While I agree the ACC is not as strong as it has been in the past I think Lunardi uses a lot of flawed logic (not just here but always). First of all he admits to having 7 ACC teams in the tournament right now. Sorry but you can't say a conference is weak and then put 7 of 12 teams in the tourney. He says none of them "scare" you. Do the 9 teams he has in from the Big East all really scare you? And 9 of 16 for the BE is a lower percentage by the way.

I also can't beleive no one pointed out that he basically blames BC (along with our former BE breathren who made the move) for the quality of basketball going down in the conference. Of course that is just a few sentences after he refers to BC as a success story. That makes tons of sense. And how exactly does fragmented fan bases and the lack of a round robin schedule lower the quality of the play on the court?

Sorry I'm not buying any of what he is saying. College basketball is cyclical especially with so many underclassmen going to the NBA. The ACC has largely avoided that in the past for whatever reason but now this is impacting some teams (See UNC last year especially). You also have some coaches in the conference right now who suck who suck. I am not denying it is a down year, but it might be a bit extreme to say the conference is in decline. Also, its freaking not even christmas so I think its premature to rate conferences when conference play is not even truly underway. Some teams have yet to play any real competition yet. I think Bracketology this early is ridiculous.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby cvilleagle on Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:49 am

Yeah, when I said we'll get crushed by Duke, I didn't just mean "Duke is #1 they'll beat everybody." I'm sure someone will beat them this year, but I just can't see it being us. They are a particularly huge matchup nightmare for us because they have so much size.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby Dirtywater75 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:14 am

This team is capable of beating anybody or losing to anybody. Every game will be entertaining due to the smarts of Donahue and his staff and the new attitude of this team.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby joemack13 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:41 am

I don't think we'll beat Duke either, i'm just sayin' there's a chance

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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby MilitantEagle on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:03 pm

Art Vandelay {l Wrote}:
bignick33 {l Wrote}:

For me, though, the most potentially lasting storyline is that of the sagging Atlantic Coast Conference. Admittedly, the league had seven teams in the above Bracketology link, but aside from the No. 1 Duke Blue Devils, name a team that scares you.

For every Boston College or Virginia success story...

I'll leave it to smarter folks to pinpoint the causes of an ACC decline, as the league had mostly avoided the cyclical nature of strengths and weakness affecting other power conferences. My gut tells me, as has been speculated in the past, that football expansion is the culprit. The absence of a true round-robin schedule, the dilution of certain rivalries and more fragmented fan bases have hurt the basketball product below the Duke-Carolina axis.



While I agree the ACC is not as strong as it has been in the past I think Lunardi uses a lot of flawed logic (not just here but always). First of all he admits to having 7 ACC teams in the tournament right now. Sorry but you can't say a conference is weak and then put 7 of 12 teams in the tourney. He says none of them "scare" you. Do the 9 teams he has in from the Big East all really scare you? And 9 of 16 for the BE is a lower percentage by the way.

I also can't beleive no one pointed out that he basically blames BC (along with our former BE breathren who made the move) for the quality of basketball going down in the conference. Of course that is just a few sentences after he refers to BC as a success story. That makes tons of sense. And how exactly does fragmented fan bases and the lack of a round robin schedule lower the quality of the play on the court?

Sorry I'm not buying any of what he is saying. College basketball is cyclical especially with so many underclassmen going to the NBA. The ACC has largely avoided that in the past for whatever reason but now this is impacting some teams (See UNC last year especially). You also have some coaches in the conference right now who suck who suck. I am not denying it is a down year, but it might be a bit extreme to say the conference is in decline. Also, its freaking not even christmas so I think its premature to rate conferences when conference play is not even truly underway. Some teams have yet to play any real competition yet. I think Bracketology this early is ridiculous.


Agreed. Lunardi over simplified things. A lot of this mediocrity has to do with coaching and the ACC has a bunch of bad ones right now (or new ones trying to turn things around). The Big East went under a bigger transformation which also diluted the rivalries, but they still have lots of strong teams with excellent coaches.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:24 pm

joemack13 {l Wrote}:I don't think we'll beat Duke either, i'm just sayin' there's a chance

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Exactly. I didn't think we'd beat maryland either.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby RedBaron67 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:50 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
joemack13 {l Wrote}:I don't think we'll beat Duke either, i'm just sayin' there's a chance

Image


Exactly. I didn't think we'd beat maryland either.


Realistically, our chances against Duke, even without Irving, are are quite a bit worse than they were against Maryland. We needed a solid game with some big plays and some luck to beat Maryland; as things stand, we'd need a solid game with a few more big plays and a LOT of luck to beat Duke.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby EagleDave on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:52 pm

At Cameron, with or without Irving, if BC keeps that game within 15 it would be a major victory.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby ryrob on Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:06 pm

EagleDave {l Wrote}:At Cameron, with or without Irving, if BC keeps that game within 15 it would be a major victory.


Staying within 10-15 against Duke at Duke with the refs on their side is a major moral victory if there ever was one.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby eepstein0 on Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:36 pm

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:
Art Vandelay {l Wrote}:
bignick33 {l Wrote}:

For me, though, the most potentially lasting storyline is that of the sagging Atlantic Coast Conference. Admittedly, the league had seven teams in the above Bracketology link, but aside from the No. 1 Duke Blue Devils, name a team that scares you.

For every Boston College or Virginia success story...

I'll leave it to smarter folks to pinpoint the causes of an ACC decline, as the league had mostly avoided the cyclical nature of strengths and weakness affecting other power conferences. My gut tells me, as has been speculated in the past, that football expansion is the culprit. The absence of a true round-robin schedule, the dilution of certain rivalries and more fragmented fan bases have hurt the basketball product below the Duke-Carolina axis.



While I agree the ACC is not as strong as it has been in the past I think Lunardi uses a lot of flawed logic (not just here but always). First of all he admits to having 7 ACC teams in the tournament right now. Sorry but you can't say a conference is weak and then put 7 of 12 teams in the tourney. He says none of them "scare" you. Do the 9 teams he has in from the Big East all really scare you? And 9 of 16 for the BE is a lower percentage by the way.

I also can't beleive no one pointed out that he basically blames BC (along with our former BE breathren who made the move) for the quality of basketball going down in the conference. Of course that is just a few sentences after he refers to BC as a success story. That makes tons of sense. And how exactly does fragmented fan bases and the lack of a round robin schedule lower the quality of the play on the court?

Sorry I'm not buying any of what he is saying. College basketball is cyclical especially with so many underclassmen going to the NBA. The ACC has largely avoided that in the past for whatever reason but now this is impacting some teams (See UNC last year especially). You also have some coaches in the conference right now who suck who suck. I am not denying it is a down year, but it might be a bit extreme to say the conference is in decline. Also, its freaking not even christmas so I think its premature to rate conferences when conference play is not even truly underway. Some teams have yet to play any real competition yet. I think Bracketology this early is ridiculous.


Agreed. Lunardi over simplified things. A lot of this mediocrity has to do with coaching and the ACC has a bunch of bad ones right now (or new ones trying to turn things around). The Big East went under a bigger transformation which also diluted the rivalries, but they still have lots of strong teams with excellent coaches.


ACC Coaching is a joke right now. They got rid of some of the jokers this off-season (Purnell at Clemson) but that still leaves Sid Lowe, Paul Hewitt, Leonard Hamilton, Seth Greenberg and Frank Haith. I like Mark Bennett and think he'll do well at UVA. If VT face-plants this season Greenberg will be on the hot seat. Gary, Donahue, Roy, Coach K and the new coaches at Clemson/Wake are probably fine for the foreseeable future due to just taking the job and the rest having won a National Championship.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby Art Vandelay on Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:51 pm

I think I would amend that to say coaching was a joke last year. There are several new guys as you mentioned who the jury is out on. There are a few established coaches (Gary, Coach K, Williams) and then the guys like Hewitt (Great recruiter terrible game coach), Sid Lowe, Haith and Greenburg. No need to debate them one by one but even stipulating the 4 of them suck I think you'd be hard pressed to find any conference that does not have 3 or 4 coaches that stink.

Here is the part where people start chiming in that Roy Williams is a lousy game coach and blah blah blah. Whatever. I am not getting into that again this year. Just saying it might be overstating to say ACC coaching is a joke since for a good percentage of teams we have no idea.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:03 pm

Art Vandelay {l Wrote}:I think I would amend that to say coaching was a joke last year. There are several new guys as you mentioned who the jury is out on. There are a few established coaches (Gary, Coach K, Williams) and then the guys like Hewitt (Great recruiter terrible game coach), Sid Lowe, Haith and Greenburg. No need to debate them one by one but even stipulating the 4 of them suck I think you'd be hard pressed to find any conference that does not have 3 or 4 coaches that stink.

Here is the part where people start chiming in that Roy Williams is a lousy game coach and blah blah blah. Whatever. I am not getting into that again this year. Just saying it might be overstating to say ACC coaching is a joke since for a good percentage of teams we have no idea.


Paul Hewitt and Roy Williams - separated at birth?
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby eepstein0 on Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:05 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
Art Vandelay {l Wrote}:I think I would amend that to say coaching was a joke last year. There are several new guys as you mentioned who the jury is out on. There are a few established coaches (Gary, Coach K, Williams) and then the guys like Hewitt (Great recruiter terrible game coach), Sid Lowe, Haith and Greenburg. No need to debate them one by one but even stipulating the 4 of them suck I think you'd be hard pressed to find any conference that does not have 3 or 4 coaches that stink.

Here is the part where people start chiming in that Roy Williams is a lousy game coach and blah blah blah. Whatever. I am not getting into that again this year. Just saying it might be overstating to say ACC coaching is a joke since for a good percentage of teams we have no idea.


Paul Hewitt and Roy Williams - separated at birth?


Roy Williams is a better coach than Paul Hewitt. Roy Williams also gets better talent than Paul Hewitt. You can make your own conclusions I suppose. Fact of matter is Donahue could coach circles around boy guys.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:07 pm

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
Art Vandelay {l Wrote}:I think I would amend that to say coaching was a joke last year. There are several new guys as you mentioned who the jury is out on. There are a few established coaches (Gary, Coach K, Williams) and then the guys like Hewitt (Great recruiter terrible game coach), Sid Lowe, Haith and Greenburg. No need to debate them one by one but even stipulating the 4 of them suck I think you'd be hard pressed to find any conference that does not have 3 or 4 coaches that stink.

Here is the part where people start chiming in that Roy Williams is a lousy game coach and blah blah blah. Whatever. I am not getting into that again this year. Just saying it might be overstating to say ACC coaching is a joke since for a good percentage of teams we have no idea.


Paul Hewitt and Roy Williams - separated at birth?


Roy Williams is a better coach than Paul Hewitt. Roy Williams also gets better talent than Paul Hewitt. You can make your own conclusions I suppose. Fact of matter is Donahue could coach circles around boy guys.


I agree with everything you say here. I would note though, that being better than last (in coaching ability) is not a huge endorsement.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby apbc12 on Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:45 pm

I don't know why VT would fire Greenberg after this year, unless they just absolutely bomb, i.e. well below .500. I get the frustration of feeling like you've peaked, but that program was less than nothing before Greenberg arrived. I'm not saying he's great, but he's good, and my money says if they fire him they won't get somebody better, and the program will go back to the depths. VT basketball will need to get extremely lucky to make the sort of long-term strides that Beamer and the football team have made. Tidewater basketball talent (and Virginia high school basketball talent in general) is mediocre, and laughable in comparison to the football talent on which Beamer largely makes his living.

To put it another way, I would love it if VT fired Seth Greenberg.
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Re: Aside from Duke, ACC is in Decline

Postby EagleDave on Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:56 pm

apbc12 {l Wrote}:I don't know why VT would fire Greenberg after this year, unless they just absolutely bomb, i.e. well below .500. I get the frustration of feeling like you've peaked, but that program was less than nothing before Greenberg arrived. I'm not saying he's great, but he's good, and my money says if they fire him they won't get somebody better, and the program will go back to the depths. VT basketball will need to get extremely lucky to make the sort of long-term strides that Beamer and the football team have made. Tidewater basketball talent (and Virginia high school basketball talent in general) is mediocre, and laughable in comparison to the football talent on which Beamer largely makes his living.

To put it another way, I would love it if VT fired Seth Greenberg.


Sounds like another coach in this conference who was terminated after the program got stale.
Is this the 5 o'clock free crack giveaway?
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