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Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:38 am
by MattTheEagle
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:How do people feel about a Jorgensen, Owens and Kelly class of 2013?

I'd give it a solid B. Highly rated PG and a couple high level athletes.

B sounds about right, maybe a B+. Both Owens and Kelly would help a lot.

Jorgensen would be a nice addition too. I like Hanlan but he plays a very different game than say Daniels. Hanlan is more of a shooter/slasher. I am hoping Jorgensen fits more of the ballhandling/passing role that Daniels excelled at.


I do not agree with this assessment of the games of Olivier Hanlan or Jordan Daniels.

My "assessment" is just based on observing most of the games from this year and last. After posting this, I noticed the stats support what I was trying to say. This isn't to say that Hanlan is a bad passer or ballhandler, he just isn't quite at Daniels level yet. Nonetheless, I do think Hanlan is the better PG overall.

Is it your contention that Hanlan and Daniels are the same type of PG? I am not trying to start an argument, I am just curious how your assessment differs.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:55 am
by eagle9903
MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:How do people feel about a Jorgensen, Owens and Kelly class of 2013?

I'd give it a solid B. Highly rated PG and a couple high level athletes.

B sounds about right, maybe a B+. Both Owens and Kelly would help a lot.

Jorgensen would be a nice addition too. I like Hanlan but he plays a very different game than say Daniels. Hanlan is more of a shooter/slasher. I am hoping Jorgensen fits more of the ballhandling/passing role that Daniels excelled at.


I do not agree with this assessment of the games of Olivier Hanlan or Jordan Daniels.

My "assessment" is just based on observing most of the games from this year and last. After posting this, I noticed the stats support what I was trying to say. This isn't to say that Hanlan is a bad passer or ballhandler, he just isn't quite at Daniels level yet. Nonetheless, I do think Hanlan is the better PG overall.

Is it your contention that Hanlan and Daniels are the same type of PG? I am not trying to start an argument, I am just curious how your assessment differs.


I think Hanlan is better than Daniels at all aspects of the position, but because he plays primarily next to Rahon/Jackson as opposed to Humphrey/Jackson, the ball is out of his hands more. Thus he has slightly less assists and a slightly worse Assist to turnover ratio but scores more. I think if our primary 2 guard was still Humphrey (or a similar gunner), Hanlan would probably have higher assist numbers, score less and probably have less turnovers because he would drive less. We would also be even worse than we are now. Conversely, if Daniels played next to Rahon, apart from us being probably the worst defensive team of all time instead of just bottom 10, Daniels would probably score more but I think he'd have less assists.

Short version: my eyeballs tell me Hanlan is a better scorer, ballhandler and passer, but is asked to perform less of a pass first PG role.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:14 pm
by Brablc
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:How do people feel about a Jorgensen, Owens and Kelly class of 2013?

I'd give it a solid B. Highly rated PG and a couple high level athletes.


B is about right. Jorgenson would be a steal. Owens and Kelly play on the best high school prep team in the nation, and are impact players. (Owens averages 12ppg after converting to a bench role) (Kelly starts)


I think B is good with the potential for higher if Owens and Kelly develop sooner than expected. Overall, I just am excited if these guys sign to have real quality depth overall. With them in the fold, we'd have:

G - Rahon, Jorgenson, Hanlan, Jackson, Donahue
SF - Dragenevich, Heckmann, Owens
PF - Anderson, Kelly, Odio
C - Clifford, Caudill

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:26 pm
by Shaddix
Brablc {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:How do people feel about a Jorgensen, Owens and Kelly class of 2013?

I'd give it a solid B. Highly rated PG and a couple high level athletes.


B is about right. Jorgenson would be a steal. Owens and Kelly play on the best high school prep team in the nation, and are impact players. (Owens averages 12ppg after converting to a bench role) (Kelly starts)


I think B is good with the potential for higher if Owens and Kelly develop sooner than expected. Overall, I just am excited if these guys sign to have real quality depth overall. With them in the fold, we'd have:

G - Rahon, Jorgenson, Hanlan, Jackson, Donahue
SF - Dragenevich, Heckmann, Owens
PF - Anderson, Kelly, Odio
C - Clifford, Caudill


By not recruiting a C, the Don really must think Caudill will be serviceable next year...which I agree with

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:29 pm
by vegasEagle
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:How do people feel about a Jorgensen, Owens and Kelly class of 2013?

I'd give it a solid B. Highly rated PG and a couple high level athletes.


B is about right. Jorgenson would be a steal. Owens and Kelly play on one of the best high school prep teams in the nation, and are impact players. (Owens averages 12ppg after converting to a bench role) (Kelly starts)



fixed. maybe.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm
by Shaddix
vegasEagle {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:How do people feel about a Jorgensen, Owens and Kelly class of 2013?

I'd give it a solid B. Highly rated PG and a couple high level athletes.


B is about right. Jorgenson would be a steal. Owens and Kelly play on one of the best high school prep teams in the nation, and are impact players. (Owens averages 12ppg after converting to a bench role) (Kelly starts)



fixed. maybe.


Massanutten is ranked number 1 believe it or not

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:21 pm
by vegasEagle
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
vegasEagle {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:How do people feel about a Jorgensen, Owens and Kelly class of 2013?

I'd give it a solid B. Highly rated PG and a couple high level athletes.


B is about right. Jorgenson would be a steal. Owens and Kelly play on one of the best high school prep teams in the nation, and are impact players. (Owens averages 12ppg after converting to a bench role) (Kelly starts)



fixed. maybe.


Massanutten is ranked number 1 believe it or not


by who?

montverde. huntington. findley.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:28 pm
by Shaddix
vegasEagle {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
vegasEagle {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:How do people feel about a Jorgensen, Owens and Kelly class of 2013?

I'd give it a solid B. Highly rated PG and a couple high level athletes.


B is about right. Jorgenson would be a steal. Owens and Kelly play on one of the best high school prep teams in the nation, and are impact players. (Owens averages 12ppg after converting to a bench role) (Kelly starts)



fixed. maybe.


Massanutten is ranked number 1 believe it or not


by who?

montverde. huntington. findley.


http://www.shenvalleynow.com/index.php/ ... _1_ranking

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:50 pm
by Brablc
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
Brablc {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:How do people feel about a Jorgensen, Owens and Kelly class of 2013?

I'd give it a solid B. Highly rated PG and a couple high level athletes.


B is about right. Jorgenson would be a steal. Owens and Kelly play on the best high school prep team in the nation, and are impact players. (Owens averages 12ppg after converting to a bench role) (Kelly starts)


I think B is good with the potential for higher if Owens and Kelly develop sooner than expected. Overall, I just am excited if these guys sign to have real quality depth overall. With them in the fold, we'd have:

G - Rahon, Jorgenson, Hanlan, Jackson, Donahue
SF - Dragenevich, Heckmann, Owens
PF - Anderson, Kelly, Odio
C - Clifford, Caudill


By not recruiting a C, the Don really must think Caudill will be serviceable next year...which I agree with


That and I think that they will be playing a lot of smaller lineups as well. 3 guard sets (especially if they get Jorgenson) and have Owens at the 4 at times.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:15 pm
by eepstein0
Caudill isn't serviceable they'll just go small.

Saving a spot for 2014 Matt Cimino who's high on BC.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:08 pm
by Shaddix
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:Caudill isn't serviceable they'll just go small.

Saving a spot for 2014 Matt Cimino who's high on BC.


Caudill will be serviceable next year

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:40 pm
by Primetime
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Caudill will be serviceable next year


Really? That's what we all thought this year. He barely gets 5-10 minutes even with Clifford out and no big man depth. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it.

Thoughts on Heckmann being the most likely transfer candidate? Dragicevich is going to come in and steal his minutes and cut into his production. I don't see him sticking around to get his degree when he can go play pro ball in Germany.

Jorgenson/Kelly/Owens ain't bad. Makes us much more versatile and adds 3 contributing guys to the rotation.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:52 pm
by Shaddix
Primetime {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Caudill will be serviceable next year


Really? That's what we all thought this year. He barely gets 5-10 minutes even with Clifford out and no big man depth. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it.

Thoughts on Heckmann being the most likely transfer candidate? Dragicevich is going to come in and steal his minutes and cut into his production. I don't see him sticking around to get his degree when he can go play pro ball in Germany.

Jorgenson/Kelly/Owens ain't bad. Makes us much more versatile and adds 3 contributing guys to the rotation.


Nobody thought that (or should have thought that) this year. It was always a 2 year project with him, the Don has been very clear about that since day 1. He has lost a ton of weight, and I expect that to continue through the summer. He has shown flashes of good play and he has a nice hook

Heckmann will probably turn pro in Germany after this year.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:56 pm
by MattTheEagle
Primetime {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Caudill will be serviceable next year


Really? That's what we all thought this year. He barely gets 5-10 minutes even with Clifford out and no big man depth. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it.

Caudill will never become a good ACC player, but he gave me a small glimmer of hope against UNH that he may soon become serviceable. For a few minutes in the second half against UNH he actually looked decent. Maybe it was just a fluke or even that he will only be a factor against shit competition, but he was at least boxing out and covering the UNH bigs pretty well.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:03 am
by Shaddix
MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:
Primetime {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Caudill will be serviceable next year


Really? That's what we all thought this year. He barely gets 5-10 minutes even with Clifford out and no big man depth. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it.

Caudill will never become a good ACC player, but he gave me a small glimmer of hope against UNH that he may soon become serviceable. For a few minutes in the second half against UNH he actually looked decent. Maybe it was just a fluke or even that he will only be a factor against shit competition, but he was at least boxing out and covering the UNH bigs pretty well.


yep, serviceable was as far as he will get. But he should put in valuable minutes and be a tough, physical body next year

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:04 am
by Shaddix
Shaddix {l Wrote}:
MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:
Primetime {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Caudill will be serviceable next year


Really? That's what we all thought this year. He barely gets 5-10 minutes even with Clifford out and no big man depth. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it.

Caudill will never become a good ACC player, but he gave me a small glimmer of hope against UNH that he may soon become serviceable. For a few minutes in the second half against UNH he actually looked decent. Maybe it was just a fluke or even that he will only be a factor against shit competition, but he was at least boxing out and covering the UNH bigs pretty well.


Yep, serviceable is as far as he will get. But he should put in valuable minutes and be a tough, physical body next year

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:08 am
by claver2010
Primetime {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Caudill will be serviceable next year


Really? That's what we all thought this year. He barely gets 5-10 minutes even with Clifford out and no big man depth. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it.



Yeah I'm getting to this frame of thought as well. He's the back up 5, the 5 has been injured and out for most of the year and he can't get off the bench. Spare me the bs of a 2 year project. If he was a 2 year project coming Donahue wasted a scholarship. If this was an established veteran team, we could absorb our backup 5 not being serviceable for half his time here.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:36 am
by joeyfenn
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
Primetime {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Caudill will be serviceable next year


Really? That's what we all thought this year. He barely gets 5-10 minutes even with Clifford out and no big man depth. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it.



Yeah I'm getting to this frame of thought as well. He's the back up 5, the 5 has been injured and out for most of the year and he can't get off the bench. Spare me the bs of a 2 year project. If he was a 2 year project coming Donahue wasted a scholarship. If this was an established veteran team, we could absorb our backup 5 not being serviceable for half his time here.


Caudill is shit. He was good in high school and had offers from half the Pac-12 but now he is just shit. I don't blame Donahue. I blame Caudill

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:41 pm
by joeyfenn
If Rashard Kelly doesn't reclassify he is ours. If he does reclassify I don't think we stand much of a chance.

SF Rashard Kelly leaning towards Boston College, not reclassifying

Rashard Kelly was once undecided about not only where he wanted to go to school, but also if he wanted to remain a senior or reclassify. However, since he and Massanutten Military Academy (VA) have started off the season 16-0, he's now leaning towards not just a graduation date, but also one school in particular. "Boston College would be my first choice," Kelly told NRS. "Their playing style is really interesting. The competition they play everyday is the best in college. Every night you have a good team coming in to play and there's probably a good opportunity of me coming in and being able to make an impact."

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:51 pm
by claver2010
joeyfenn {l Wrote}:Caudill is shit. He was good in high school and had offers from half the Pac-12 but now he is just shit. I don't blame Donahue. I blame Caudill


Serious question, can Caudill dunk?

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:27 pm
by joeyfenn
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
joeyfenn {l Wrote}:Caudill is shit. He was good in high school and had offers from half the Pac-12 but now he is just shit. I don't blame Donahue. I blame Caudill


Serious question, can Caudill dunk?


Depends on how long his arms are...because he definitely cant jump.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:26 am
by 2001Eagle
joeyfenn {l Wrote}:If Rashard Kelly doesn't reclassify he is ours. If he does reclassify I don't think we stand much of a chance.

SF Rashard Kelly leaning towards Boston College, not reclassifying

Rashard Kelly was once undecided about not only where he wanted to go to school, but also if he wanted to remain a senior or reclassify. However, since he and Massanutten Military Academy (VA) have started off the season 16-0, he's now leaning towards not just a graduation date, but also one school in particular. "Boston College would be my first choice," Kelly told NRS. "Their playing style is really interesting. The competition they play everyday is the best in college. Every night you have a good team coming in to play and there's probably a good opportunity of me coming in and being able to make an impact."


so commit already rashard!

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:37 am
by Shaddix
Donahue will get at least through next year to show he can succeed. Kelly, Owens, and Jorgenson likely won't be the difference that determines whether he will thrive or fail.

Epstein is going to love this because the man who will save or destroy the Don's tenure is Alex Dragicevich.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:13 am
by eepstein0
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Donahue will get at least through next year to show he can succeed. Kelly, Owens, and Jorgenson likely won't be the difference that determines whether he will thrive or fail.

Epstein is going to love this because the man who will save or destroy the Don's tenure is Alex Dragicevich.


Dragevich is an upgrade over Rubin or whatever DIII we're rolling with now.

Rahon, Hanlan, Dragevich, Anderson and Clifford is a D1 starting lineup.

People will end up liking this '13 class. The '12 class was good also. The '11 class will be the undoing.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:26 am
by claver2010
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Donahue will get at least through next year to show he can succeed. Kelly, Owens, and Jorgenson likely won't be the difference that determines whether he will thrive or fail.

Epstein is going to love this because the man who will save or destroy the Don's tenure is Alex Dragicevich.


Dragevich is an upgrade over Rubin or whatever DIII we're rolling with now.

Rahon, Hanlan, Dragevich, Anderson and Clifford is a D1 starting lineup.

People will end up liking this '13 class. The '12 class was good also. The '11 class will be the undoing.


Not sure it'll be his undoing but there's a ton of dead weight in that class or in epstein's language NON-ACC TALENT.

The fact that we don't have a servicable big to spell a 7' with knee issues and from the h00ps weird0s sounds like we don't have plans to bring one in, is comical.

Edit: the addition of Rahon/Hanlan and what potentially sounds like a good 2013 class should flush out the minutes Odio's 20, Rubin's 5-10 MPG. Also Jackson shouldn't be playing 28, Rahon shouldn't be playing 35 :shock: (there's no doubt he's going to hit a wall at that pace, the only question is when).

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:38 am
by Cadillac90
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:People will end up liking this '13 class.


Has anyone other than Owens committed yet? There's one commit who is a significant project so let's try to temper the excitement.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:06 am
by RedBaron67
Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:People will end up liking this '13 class.


Has anyone other than Owens committed yet? There's one commit who is a significant project so let's try to temper the excitement.


Don't be too downbeat; given the team's current condition, people are badly in need of some optimism about the future.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:09 am
by eagle9903
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
Shaddix {l Wrote}:Donahue will get at least through next year to show he can succeed. Kelly, Owens, and Jorgenson likely won't be the difference that determines whether he will thrive or fail.

Epstein is going to love this because the man who will save or destroy the Don's tenure is Alex Dragicevich.


Dragevich is an upgrade over Rubin or whatever DIII we're rolling with now.

Rahon, Hanlan, Dragevich, Anderson and Clifford is a D1 starting lineup.

People will end up liking this '13 class. The '12 class was good also. The '11 class will be the undoing.


Not sure it'll be his undoing but there's a ton of dead weight in that class or in epstein's language NON-ACC TALENT.

The fact that we don't have a servicable big to spell a 7' with knee issues and from the h00ps weird0s sounds like we don't have plans to bring one in, is comical.

Edit: the addition of Rahon/Hanlan and what potentially sounds like a good 2013 class should flush out the minutes Odio's 20, Rubin's 5-10 MPG. Also Jackson shouldn't be playing 28, Rahon shouldn't be playing 35 :shock: (there's no doubt he's going to hit a wall at that pace, the only question is when).


the backup big has to come via transfer I think.

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:21 am
by twballgame9
claver2010 {l Wrote}:Rahon shouldn't be playing 35 :shock: (there's no doubt he's going to hit a wall at that pace, the only question is when).


If only there were another serviceable guard on the roster to reduce those minutes [ellipsis]

Re: Commits/Recruiting

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:38 am
by vegasEagle
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:Rahon shouldn't be playing 35 :shock: (there's no doubt he's going to hit a wall at that pace, the only question is when).


If only there were another serviceable guard on the roster to reduce those minutes [ellipsis]


I know it. Gabe Moten would have really helped.