Commits/Recruiting

[HJS]

Nice to see Vinny was able to get work producing highlights for Western Pennsylvania High School Basketball games.

[eagle9903]

Nice to see Vinny was able to get work producing highlights for Western Pennsylvania High School Basketball games.

there should be an epilepsy warning.

[eepstein0]

We're not basing our conclusion on his highlight tape. We're basing it on the fact that all his offers are from Mid-Majors and all his rankings say the same thing.

I should hope he can dunk, he's 6'8"

[eagle9903]

We're not basing our conclusion on his highlight tape. We're basing it on the fact that all his offers are from Mid-Majors and all his rankings say the same thing.

I should hope he can dunk, he's 6'8"

Is that the royal we?

Here's why I think you're off base about this particular kid (as opposed to the usual thing where I don't really have an opinion on the player but just think you have concluded too much from too little).

He committed to Duquesne somewhat early (September 2011) and before his senior season had begun. The knock on him at that point (from your ESPN recruiting writeups) was that he was too wiry and needed to put on some lbs. The Duquesne coach was fired after the season and he consequently decommitted. Apparently, he had a very good senior season on a 28-3 team where he led with 17.0/per and from that video he looks like he's gained some weight at some point. I think due to the apparent improvement senior year and apparent physical development he would have more offers now than then if most teams weren't done with recruiting. Thus he seems more likely than average to be a "diamond in the rough" type recruit.

FWIW I think Hanlan is similarly more likely than average to be a diamond in the rough because of a similar blow up his senior year and think Rahon having some potential despite limited offers(other than Georgetown) because of his injury situation.

[RedBaron67]

Jack might be a sleeper, but he still looks iffy; he had a good but not great senior year, and he's still skinny when BC needs muscle up front. The only unquestionable positive about him is that he's not an academic worry -- he's planning to major in physics.

[eagle9903]

Jack might be a sleeper, but he still looks iffy; he had a good but not great senior year, and he's still skinny when BC needs muscle up front. The only unquestionable positive about him is that he's not an academic worry -- he's planning to major in physics.

I think the senior year was impressive, he led a team that went 28-3 and went to the state playoffs in scoring. They won their league. I also disagree on the skinny thing, is he noticeably skinnier than Trapani? He's not Josh Southern granted.

Also, I'm not guaranteeing he will be even a rotational player at BC(if he committed), I'm just saying there are specific reasons that despite the offers, this kid seems more promising than others (Odio or Dallas Elmore for instance).

[eepstein0]

Jack might be a sleeper, but he still looks iffy; he had a good but not great senior year, and he's still skinny when BC needs muscle up front. The only unquestionable positive about him is that he's not an academic worry -- he's planning to major in physics.

I think the senior year was impressive, he led a team that went 28-3 and went to the state playoffs in scoring. They won their league. I also disagree on the skinny thing, is he noticeably skinnier than Trapani? He's not Josh Southern granted.

Also, I'm not guaranteeing he will be even a rotational player at BC(if he committed), I'm just saying there are specific reasons that despite the offers, this kid seems more promising than others (Odio or Dallas Elmore for instance).

The Elmore committment was so Reggie Jackson would attend here. Is there an ESPN Top 100 kid coming with Jack?

My feelings are already known on Odio.

[eagle9903]

Jack might be a sleeper, but he still looks iffy; he had a good but not great senior year, and he's still skinny when BC needs muscle up front. The only unquestionable positive about him is that he's not an academic worry -- he's planning to major in physics.

I think the senior year was impressive, he led a team that went 28-3 and went to the state playoffs in scoring. They won their league. I also disagree on the skinny thing, is he noticeably skinnier than Trapani? He's not Josh Southern granted.

Also, I'm not guaranteeing he will be even a rotational player at BC(if he committed), I'm just saying there are specific reasons that despite the offers, this kid seems more promising than others (Odio or Dallas Elmore for instance).

The Elmore committment was so Reggie Jackson would attend here. Is there an ESPN Top 100 kid coming with Jack?

My feelings are already known on Odio.

My point is not that there was no reason to recruit elmore, it was that there was no reason to believe he would be good at basketball. Same with odio. In those instances, I think sometimes the offers reflect the player as there aren't any mitigating circumstances and sometimes they do not.

[bignick33]

Jack might be a sleeper, but he still looks iffy; he had a good but not great senior year, and he's still skinny when BC needs muscle up front. The only unquestionable positive about him is that he's not an academic worry -- he's planning to major in physics.

I think the senior year was impressive, he led a team that went 28-3 and went to the state playoffs in scoring. They won their league. I also disagree on the skinny thing, is he noticeably skinnier than Trapani? He's not Josh Southern granted.

Also, I'm not guaranteeing he will be even a rotational player at BC(if he committed), I'm just saying there are specific reasons that despite the offers, this kid seems more promising than others (Odio or Dallas Elmore for instance).

The Elmore committment was so Reggie Jackson would attend here. Is there an ESPN Top 100 kid coming with Jack?

My feelings are already known on Odio.

My point is not that there was no reason to recruit elmore, it was that there was no reason to believe he would be good at basketball. Same with odio. In those instances, I think sometimes the offers reflect the player as there aren't any mitigating circumstances and sometimes they do not.

Al Skinner didn't recruit, so Elmore/Jackson is not a good example.

[BCEaglesFan]

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

[twballgame9]

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

So let me get this straight, BC should not go after players with good offers because they never pan out, instead they should target diamonds in the rough? Really?

[HJS]

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

So let me get this straight, BC should not go after players with good offers because they never pan out, instead they should target diamonds in the rough? Really?

Yeah... the argument kinda falls apart when you talk about the freshmen... since they had decent offers and everyone is pretty pleased with them.

[eagle9903]

dammit. bizzaro eepstein does not represent my position.

[HJS]

Let's get back to business... Steve Donohue is an abject failure if he can't close on Montrezl Harrell and Marshall Woods. Landing those two pretty much solves any recruiting concerns we all had.

[eagle9903]

Let's get back to business... Steve Donohue is an abject failure if he can't close on Montrezl Harrell and Marshall Woods. Landing those two pretty much solves any recruiting concerns we all had.

really?

[BCEaglesFan]

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

So let me get this straight, BC should not go after players with good offers because they never pan out, instead they should target diamonds in the rough? Really?

I'm not pointing that out, I'm just saying that just the argument that says that if BC goes after a guy who isn't an amazing 4 star recruit all of a sudden means he won't do well and BC recruiting sucks all of a sudden is absolutely not true. You can't say they suck until they get to play in college. You also can't assume 4 star recruits will always be better than those lower-rated recruits.

Plus, Donahue has had 2 classes so far, so you really can't judge how well he's done on recruiting until the future when these guys are more experienced and he brings in more recruits.

[RedBaron67]

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

[BCEaglesFan]

Let's get back to business... Steve Donohue is an abject failure if he can't close on Montrezl Harrell and Marshall Woods. Landing those two pretty much solves any recruiting concerns we all had.

That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

[eagle9903]

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

One full class has played. When Skinner got Bell to commit he had shown no indication whatever of that ability at that date.

[BCEaglesFan]

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

But they've also given no indication that they have no eye for talent. Now that's just silly. Anderson, Clifford, Jackson, Daniels all have a solid future and Caudill does too if he loses weight. Hanlan seems like he'll be a solid player and Rahon has a future as a shooter. Odio needs a lot of development but he could be Beerbohm all over again.

[BCEaglesFan]

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

One full class has played. When Skinner got Bell to commit he had shown no indication whatever of that ability at that date.

This. The 2011 class was thrown into the fire, you can't really judge the beginning of the season as the judge of the entire season the team went through. They got much better by ACC season and won 4 games and should've won 2 more (@VT and @GT). Bell was eased in and had no pressure to play major minutes as a freshman.

[twballgame9]

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

So let me get this straight, BC should not go after players with good offers because they never pan out, instead they should target diamonds in the rough? Really?

I'm not pointing that out, I'm just saying that just the argument that says that if BC goes after a guy who isn't an amazing 4 star recruit all of a sudden means he won't do well and BC recruiting sucks all of a sudden is absolutely not true. You can't say they suck until they get to play in college. You also can't assume 4 star recruits will always be better than those lower-rated recruits.

Plus, Donahue has had 2 classes so far, so you really can't judge how well he's done on recruiting until the future when these guys are more experienced and he brings in more recruits.

Just because you turn an unheralded player into a good college player doesn't mean that you can't attempt to recruit a better player in the first place. I am not a huge fan of player rankings and stars, but there is some truth to the idea that you get less misses when you recruit better known quantities.

Doing a poor job recruiting and being a good enough coach and/or developer of talent to make something of those players doesn't mean that you are a good recruiter. I'd like to see BC land a few more heralded guys.

[BCEagles25]

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

So let me get this straight, BC should not go after players with good offers because they never pan out, instead they should target diamonds in the rough? Really?

Oh come on Teddy, you know that's not what he is trying to say... classic tw.

[RedBaron67]

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

One full class has played. When Skinner got Bell to commit he had shown no indication whatever of that ability at that date.

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

But they've also given no indication that they have no eye for talent. Now that's just silly. Anderson, Clifford, Jackson, Daniels all have a solid future and Caudill does too if he loses weight. Hanlan seems like he'll be a solid player and Rahon has a future as a shooter. Odio needs a lot of development but he could be Beerbohm all over again.

Donahue et al. have recruited 8 players who were on this year's team, and none of them performed any better than the scouting services would have have led you to believe. It's also a gross distortion to say I said they have no eye for talent; what I said is that they've shown no eye for talent that other people didn't see. I could also say that your assessment of the present team stretches optimism to the limit.

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

One full class has played. When Skinner got Bell to commit he had shown no indication whatever of that ability at that date.

This. The 2011 class was thrown into the fire, you can't really judge the beginning of the season as the judge of the entire season the team went through. They got much better by ACC season and won 4 games and should've won 2 more (@VT and @GT). Bell was eased in and had no pressure to play major minutes as a freshman.

That statement about Bell is flatly untrue. Bell started from day 1 and led the team in scoring as a freshman (and was named Big East Freshman of the Year). The PG who'd come in the year before transferred out the preceding spring (and, incidentally, had a successful career at Purdue) because it was clear that Skinner was going to hand Bell the ball.

[BCEaglesFan]

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

One full class has played. When Skinner got Bell to commit he had shown no indication whatever of that ability at that date.

First of all, wasn't BC always known as a place where you got underrated recruits that didn't get that great offers? Let's look at some examples:
Jared Dudley-Offers from Creighton and San Diego State
Troy Bell-Grew up 5 minutes from Minnesota's campus and didn't get an offer from them
Craig Smith-Barely recruited
Louis Hinnant-Barely Recruited
Tyrese Rice-Only major offer was from Wake Forest
Reggie Jackson-Only other offers from Colorado State and Temple

Now let's look at how each 4 star recruit did at BC:
Johnnie Jackson-Did nothing and transferred after 2 years
S*** W*******- did pot, blocked a ton of shots but flamed out after 3 years
Shamari Spears-Showed flashes but transferred after 2 years because of arrest
Rakim Sanders-Extremely talented but out of shape and transferred after 3 years
Josh Southern-Slow big man who couldn't dunk. Role player at best
Reggie Jackson-One exception to this list, but it took the Don to turn him into a great player

In the 2011 Class:
Anderson picked BC over Oregon, Washington State, Miami, etc. plus he was an ESPNU 100 player
Jackson had an ASU offer
Clifford committed very early so he didn't get a chance to get high-major offers
Caudill had offers from Northwestern, Arizona State, Oregon state, etc.
Daniels was talented enough but too small to get high-major offers
Heckmann had offers from Michigan, Clemson, and a lot more

The rankings don't matter, it's how the player pans out that matters. People on EO were saying this months ago. just because BC lost out on Tebbutt and is going after a guy that is 1 point, only 1, behind him on ESPN and has offers from Washington State and Depaul means recruiting is embarrassing all of a sudden? Please. The 2011 class wasn't incredibly highly rated but it did okay for the fact that it was thrown into the fire from the start.

Basically, to declare that recruiting sucks now already is BS.

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

But they've also given no indication that they have no eye for talent. Now that's just silly. Anderson, Clifford, Jackson, Daniels all have a solid future and Caudill does too if he loses weight. Hanlan seems like he'll be a solid player and Rahon has a future as a shooter. Odio needs a lot of development but he could be Beerbohm all over again.

Donahue et al. have recruited 8 players who were on this year's team, and none of them performed any better than the scouting services would have have led you to believe. It's also a gross distortion to say I said they have no eye for talent; what I said is that they've shown no eye for talent that other people didn't see. I could also say that your assessment of the present team stretches optimism to the limit.

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

One full class has played. When Skinner got Bell to commit he had shown no indication whatever of that ability at that date.

This. The 2011 class was thrown into the fire, you can't really judge the beginning of the season as the judge of the entire season the team went through. They got much better by ACC season and won 4 games and should've won 2 more (@VT and @GT). Bell was eased in and had no pressure to play major minutes as a freshman.

That statement about Bell is flatly untrue. Bell started from day 1 and led the team in scoring as a freshman (and was named Big East Freshman of the Year). The PG who'd come in the year before transferred out the preceding spring (and, incidentally, had a successful career at Purdue) because it was clear that Skinner was going to hand Bell the ball.

He had 2 experienced upperclassmen in the backcourt with him to make it easier when he struggled. This team didn't have that.

[RedBaron67]

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

One full class has played. When Skinner got Bell to commit he had shown no indication whatever of that ability at that date.

This. The 2011 class was thrown into the fire, you can't really judge the beginning of the season as the judge of the entire season the team went through. They got much better by ACC season and won 4 games and should've won 2 more (@VT and @GT). Bell was eased in and had no pressure to play major minutes as a freshman.

That statement about Bell is flatly untrue. Bell started from day 1 and led the team in scoring as a freshman (and was named Big East Freshman of the Year). The PG who'd come in the year before transferred out the preceding spring (and, incidentally, had a successful career at Purdue) because it was clear that Skinner was going to hand Bell the ball.

He had 2 experienced upperclassmen in the backcourt with him to make it easier when he struggled. This team didn't have that.

I'm entirely willing to admit that Bell had much more upperclass support than this year's team (which really was thrown into the fire, but still showed pretty modest improvement over the course of the season -- Clifford even began to regress late in the season). That's a lot different, however, from saying that Bell "was eased in" or "had no pressure" as a freshman; he was clearly expected to be The Man right from the start (and fulfilled expectations to a remarkable degree).

[eagle9903]

The big difference is that the people who recruited Dudley, Bell, et al. showed they had an eye for spotting underrated/undiscovered talent, whereas the present group has given no indication whatever of this to date. Jack might be different, but I feel 50-50 at most about taking him (if we can get him) versus banking the scholarship for 2013.

One full class has played. When Skinner got Bell to commit he had shown no indication whatever of that ability at that date.

This. The 2011 class was thrown into the fire, you can't really judge the beginning of the season as the judge of the entire season the team went through. They got much better by ACC season and won 4 games and should've won 2 more (@VT and @GT). Bell was eased in and had no pressure to play major minutes as a freshman.

That statement about Bell is flatly untrue. Bell started from day 1 and led the team in scoring as a freshman (and was named Big East Freshman of the Year). The PG who'd come in the year before transferred out the preceding spring (and, incidentally, had a successful career at Purdue) because it was clear that Skinner was going to hand Bell the ball.

He had 2 experienced upperclassmen in the backcourt with him to make it easier when he struggled. This team didn't have that.

I'm entirely willing to admit that Bell had much more upperclass support than this year's team (which really was thrown into the fire, but still showed pretty modest improvement over the course of the season -- Clifford even began to regress late in the season). That's a lot different, however, from saying that Bell "was eased in" or "had no pressure" as a freshman; he was clearly expected to be The Man right from the start (and fulfilled expectations to a remarkable degree).

The truth lies somewhere in between. Bell was not expected to be the man his freshman year. X and Cotton and B-Ross(if his back had healed which it hadn't) were supposed to be the big scorers on what pretty much no one expected to be a competitive team. However, he carried a better team than this current one(it did have some decent upper classmen) on his back from pretty early on in the season and what expectations there were for the team came from his play OOC. He definitely played major minutes almost immediately.

[eagle9903]

Donahue et al. have recruited 8 players who were on this year's team, and none of them performed any better than the scouting services would have have led you to believe. It's also a gross distortion to say I said they have no eye for talent; what I said is that they've shown no eye for talent that other people didn't see. I could also say that your assessment of the present team stretches optimism to the limit.

Wait what? now Ryan Anderson was highly recruited and Dennis Clifford too?

I'm getting confused.

[RedBaron67]

Donahue et al. have recruited 8 players who were on this year's team, and none of them performed any better than the scouting services would have have led you to believe. It's also a gross distortion to say I said they have no eye for talent; what I said is that they've shown no eye for talent that other people didn't see. I could also say that your assessment of the present team stretches optimism to the limit.

Wait what? now Ryan Anderson was highly recruited and Dennis Clifford too?

I'm getting confused.

I never said anything about Anderson or Clifford being highly recruited, although both would certainly have gotten more offers if they hadn't committed to BC early. What I meant was that Anderson performed this season about as well as you'd expect a borderline top-100 player to perform, and Clifford performed roughly on the level of a 7-foot semi-project with a significant, maybe even a big, upside. I think the same was also true of the rest; they performed pretty much in sync with their incoming credentials -- no surprises. What I'm saying Donahue et al. lack (on the existing evidence, at least) is the ability to find gold (e.g., Bell or Smith) that others think is lead. (I won't mention Dudley because there was so much fluky good luck involved in his case -- he really was a gift from the hoop gods.)

[781]

'12 PF Toby Hegner is listing BC as one of many schools trying to land his services for next season