Setting the timeline for success

[MilitantEagle]

Let's put it this way: if Donahue only wins 15 games next year, he should be fired. Period.

Maybe I missed something, but I hope you're joking. You were willing to give Skinner a pass for one more year when he only pulled out 15 wins, yet Donahue doesn't get any kind of pass when showing up in April for the same win total 11 months later?

This thread is horrible. I appreciate bapst's efforts for trying to start a good conversation, but we have the typical people who are arguing just to argue. And hjs's revisionist history is laughable. He was dying, DYING to get Lon Kruger or even the URI or Dayton coach, and GUARANTEED Gene would hire one of: Duquette, OShea, Cooley, Coen or Lappas. HJS's brain is complete mush. What's the correct order here: your brain is mush so you go to UConn law or UConn law turns your brain to mush?

[BC '00]

The Fire Al Crowd is making excuses for the successor (who, ironically, the Don't Fire Al Crowd actually likes more than they do) already. Let's put it this way: if Donahue only wins 15 games next year, he should be fired. Period.

You can't fire a guy after one year. While 15 wins wouldn't be good at all next year if you keep firing people too soon then you end up like notre dame football. A first year coach would have to win >12 games with this team to warrant a firing. That said, in the years after that there are no excuses.

You're being almost as ridiculous as he is. Donahue has 3 years minimum unless he's caught banging coeds or embezzling money or something. He would only be fired over the team's performance if they literally won 5 games or less each of the next two years. Regardless of your analysis of the talent left on the team, he still has a grace period of at least a couple years.

[BCEagle74]

TIMELINE = NOW = MARCH 2011.

SUCCESS: If we are in a field of 96 and ranked 33rd or above and play on Tuesday or Monday, BC will win 4 games and be in the Sweet 16 and maybe the Elite 8 with Stevie D.

1--TRAPANI 6-7 RAVENEL 6-8 SOUTHERN 6-10 (Sore Shoulder healed), DUNN 6-8, and RAJI 6-6, -- will be in game shape and get better this summer and have new attitudes and the other bongettes will have quit which was not enforced after the Chinaman left.

MAybe NADO can be a player right out and you get 6 guys.

2--Paris 6-1, Jackson 6-3 and ELMORE 6-5 should be enough, but one more guard woulda been sweet.

So 30-30-20...big deal. Maybe you get 6 minutes from white gaulks Mosakowski 6-1 and Judge Rehnquist 6-4.

19-8
3-1 ACC
7-0 NCAA

29-9 CHAMPIONS.


ROLL ME AN 11 to the Title.

NOW is the time for success and turn that into recruiting magic.

When we win at least 3 NCAA Games..someone remind me of this post.

Grace periods are for pussies..I want a Title.


You got 10 guys...COACH EM UP!

[GreenvilleEagle]

Reading this board, I've been led to believe that Al Skinner was rock-bottom terrible. Anybody else would have been an improvement and Steve "Anybody Else" Donahue only loses Roche (who everybody agrees sucks) and Sanders (who everyone seems to believe is a clubhouse cancer and his departure is something to celebrate).
So, less than 15 wins next year would be a DISASTER.

Unless the loss of Roche/Sanders isn't a reason to be happy and/or unless Al Skinner was not a rock-bottom terrible coach.

Do you think Rakim was a good teammate?

I don't know. Do you think the team will be better without him?

Because I'm seeing the exact same team coming back next year, minus Roche, minus Sanders (which is addition by subtraction, no?) and getting coached by someone who's apparently significantly better than Skinner and people are acting like duplicating last year's win total next year would be a pleasant surprise.

My question wasn't whether the team was going to be better without Rakim. Personally, I don't think Rakim was ever the player he was advertised to be. Would it be better if Rakim went to Syracuse instead of BC? Perhaps but at best he would come off the bench as I never saw anything from him game to game that showed he was a consistent player.


A couple of observations. One, supposing he did come into game shape last season how did he lose his conditioning so quickly? Even with the injury you would think at worst he would look in game shape after being back a couple of weeks after the injury. Never happened. It makes you wonder if he really participated or bought into the preseason work required for that level.

Secondly, the behavior at Wake Forest during the game and after he fouled out was not good. There is no other way to say it. He looked angry and disgusted and in general just acted like a huge dick. Many perceived Rakim a team leader. Perhaps he was not ready or capable of that role. Truthfully, and I am not ready to count the times or ways, but he never looked comfortable as a player this past year.

I hope everything works out for Rakim but the bottom line is if he decided to leave even with a push from the new coaching staff that stuff happens at this level. There is not a program immune to it including the ivy league.

Will the team be better without Rakim? It will probably be the same. If we beat Maine this year then they might lose to Clemson or FSU. This team was not going to be remarkably better or worse with or witout Rakim.

[twballgame9]

Let's put it this way: if Donahue only wins 15 games next year, he should be fired. Period.

Maybe I missed something, but I hope you're joking. You were willing to give Skinner a pass for one more year when he only pulled out 15 wins, yet Donahue doesn't get any kind of pass when showing up in April for the same win total 11 months later?

I was willing to give Al Skinner a pass because it was not his first season. If Donahue is a better coach (which, by the way, I believe he is) than he needs to show me something right away with talent that we know a bad Xs and Os guy could get to 15 wins. Even with Sanders gone (ignoring the loss of the incoming freshman, who don't matter in this equation) this team is not a 15 win team next season anymore than it was this season (the reason Al got fired). Difference for me is that Donahue has never won a Big East or ACC Championship for BC, so he doesn't get any passes

Fire him after one year is hyperbole. That said, he had better not win 15 or less games next season.

[Art Vandelay]

Let's put it this way: if Donahue only wins 15 games next year, he should be fired. Period.

Maybe I missed something, but I hope you're joking. You were willing to give Skinner a pass for one more year when he only pulled out 15 wins, yet Donahue doesn't get any kind of pass when showing up in April for the same win total 11 months later?

I was willing to give Al Skinner a pass because it was not his first season. If Donahue is a better coach (which, by the way, I believe he is) than he needs to show me something right away with talent that we know a bad Xs and Os guy could get to 15 wins. Even with Sanders gone (ignoring the loss of the incoming freshman, who don't matter in this equation) this team is not a 15 win team next season anymore than it was this season (the reason Al got fired). Difference for me is that Donahue has never won a Big East or ACC Championship for BC, so he doesn't get any passes

Fire him after one year is hyperbole. That said, he had better not win 15 or less games next season.

I think there are a few factors you need to take into account:

1) The team added nothing so there is nothing to make you think they should have improved any
2) The loss of Sanders does take something away. I was the first to criticize Sanders, thought he was overrated as a player overall and played fat and lazy last year. That said he still played a lot of minutes and averaged 12 points a game. That production has to be replaced for them to maintain the same level.
3) They are learning a new system. HJS would have you believe that basketball is simple and they can learn the new offense in a week, but he's been wrong on most things so why stop now. It is not that simple to install a new system especially when your personnel may or may not be well suited to the new system since none of them were recruted to play in it.
4) The rest of the league is also getting better. UNC is not going to suck this year and several teams have very good recruting classes coming in. We have.............right nothing coming in.

It would be ridiculously unfair to judge donahue based on this season and while I hope for more I am not confident this team will win many more games next year than we did this year.

[BC923]

Fire him after one year is hyperbole. That said, he had better not win 15 or less games next season.

Ok, I agree with this, however the team should be better next year. That said, I don't know what the non conference looks like but the ACC looks to be much better this year. If a team comparable to last years team played next year I don't think they would come out with 15 wins. But I agree, just because it is SD's first year doesn't mean he has an excuse for fielding a worse team.

[pick6pedro]

Fire him after one year is hyperbole. That said, he had better not win 15 or less games next season.

Ok, I agree with this, however the team should be better next year. That said, I don't know what the non conference looks like but the ACC looks to be much better this year. If a team comparable to last years team played next year I don't think they would come out with 15 wins. But I agree, just because it is SD's first year doesn't mean he has an excuse for fielding a worse team.

Whether SD's first season is a success or not has far more to do with how he affects the players, who he brings in between then and now, and how they compete on the floor than matching his predeccessor's win total from the prior year where the predecessor had tons of time to build his team and teach them skills - but didn't.

[bapst]

Bumping this post from April on setting expectations for the program. In the original post, I outlined things we'd like to see in the 2010/11 season.

*In-shape, playing hard, success in-bounding the ball. Check.
*Build team around Reggie/Trap, Raji and Elmore competent 3-4 options. Reggie and Raji, yes. Trap/Elmore not so much.
*Coach Southern and Biko up. Check
*New recruits make meaningful contributions. Check.
*Increase in student attendance. Not yet, but hoping that will change second semester.
*Win all the cupcakes, one significant OOC win. Did lose to Yale, but A&M and Indiana are nice wins. So... give it a check.

Too early department predictions:
*18 wins, 6th-8th in ACC, was looking for a tourney bid (assuming at the time a 96 team field).

ACC is surprisingly mediocre this year, so win over Maryland lends optimism to a mid-pack conference finish. If tourney went to 96 teams, think most of us would feel really good about making the NCAA's. And if we win the two cupcakes and split URI/South Carolina, we'll be at 11 wins, and an 8-8 record would get us to 18, even before the ACC tournament. If we can somehow get to 19 or 20 wins, strength-of-schedule may get us into a 68 tournament anyway, which would be quite a transformation from where we were last March!

Preliminary conclusion: By the expectations set 8 months ago, the Captain is well on his way to meeting them, and can conclude that Smilin' Gene has made an excellent decision in bringing Donahue in to change the culture of the program. We should be able to give him benefit of the doubt on recruiting, that we have an adult in charge, and that we have every reason to believe will win consistently and represent our college well. 2011/12 may be a temporary step backward because of the dearth of upperclassmen, but we are poised to advance the program to the next level in the years ahead.

[twballgame9]

The Fire Al Crowd is making excuses for the successor (who, ironically, the Don't Fire Al Crowd actually likes more than they do) already. Let's put it this way: if Donahue only wins 15 games next year, he should be fired. Period.

I think running off Sanders was a giant mistake from a win total standpoint. I also think Donahue is a better Xs and Os guy than Al. BC should have won 18-20 this season even without Sanders. If they don't next year, it is a bad season. Period.

If Al was a bad coach, and Sanders an overrated bum, the loss of Sanders and Roche should not all of a sudden render 15 wins a good season. You sound like a bunch of fucking Spaz apologists when I got yelled at for saying the football should win 9 games last season - I was "setting expectations too high."

What the fuck happened to OJ's ever to excel now? Where's the "I hate we are what we are mentality" now?

Bring it OJ, why the change? Why will 15 wins be acceptable? Other than the obvious.

I'd just like to note that as of April I was expecting this team to win 18-20 games. Which is what they are going to win. Which will be a good season. More will be a pleasant shock.

[RedBaron67]

The Fire Al Crowd is making excuses for the successor (who, ironically, the Don't Fire Al Crowd actually likes more than they do) already. Let's put it this way: if Donahue only wins 15 games next year, he should be fired. Period.

I think running off Sanders was a giant mistake from a win total standpoint. I also think Donahue is a better Xs and Os guy than Al. BC should have won 18-20 this season even without Sanders. If they don't next year, it is a bad season. Period.

If Al was a bad coach, and Sanders an overrated bum, the loss of Sanders and Roche should not all of a sudden render 15 wins a good season. You sound like a bunch of fucking Spaz apologists when I got yelled at for saying the football should win 9 games last season - I was "setting expectations too high."

What the fuck happened to OJ's ever to excel now? Where's the "I hate we are what we are mentality" now?

Bring it OJ, why the change? Why will 15 wins be acceptable? Other than the obvious.

I'd just like to note that as of April I was expecting this team to win 18-20 games. Which is what they are going to win. Which will be a good season. More will be a pleasant shock.

I wouldn't be quite so complacent about the season just yet. BC has pulled out a number of tight games by narrow margins (in the case of Providence, an EXTREMELY narrow margin), which involved some big plays but also some luck. To get to even 18 wins, they'll have to continue to make big plays and play hard enough to keep luck breaking their way; put another way, Donahue will have to keep squeezing overproduction out of limited resources. I'm not going to say that they won't do it, but I will say that if they do, the players and especially the coach will deserve a LOT of credit for exceeding expectations.

[bapst]

From the expectation we set a year ago, we got to 20 wins and an NCAA bid is within reach. Recruiting looks good for next season, and there's a grown up in charge of the program.

Time to officially call Donahue's first year a success. A lot will depend in 2012 whether Reggie comes back, but long-term future is bright.

[twballgame9]

The Fire Al Crowd is making excuses for the successor (who, ironically, the Don't Fire Al Crowd actually likes more than they do) already. Let's put it this way: if Donahue only wins 15 games next year, he should be fired. Period.

I think running off Sanders was a giant mistake from a win total standpoint. I also think Donahue is a better Xs and Os guy than Al. BC should have won 18-20 this season even without Sanders. If they don't next year, it is a bad season. Period.

If Al was a bad coach, and Sanders an overrated bum, the loss of Sanders and Roche should not all of a sudden render 15 wins a good season. You sound like a bunch of fucking Spaz apologists when I got yelled at for saying the football should win 9 games last season - I was "setting expectations too high."

What the fuck happened to OJ's ever to excel now? Where's the "I hate we are what we are mentality" now?

Bring it OJ, why the change? Why will 15 wins be acceptable? Other than the obvious.

Boom goes the dynamite!

[Cadillac90]

From the expectation we set a year ago, we got to 20 wins and an NCAA bid is within reach. Recruiting looks good for next season, and there's a grown up in charge of the program.

Time to officially call Donahue's first year a success. A lot will depend in 2012 whether Reggie comes back, but long-term future is bright.

Grown up? Get a clue you fuckpig.

[twballgame9]

From the expectation we set a year ago, we got to 20 wins and an NCAA bid is within reach. Recruiting looks good for next season, and there's a grown up in charge of the program.

Time to officially call Donahue's first year a success. A lot will depend in 2012 whether Reggie comes back, but long-term future is bright.

In fact, if the grown up gets two more wins, I will be willing to say he is as awesome as Al was two years ago.

[BCEagle74]

TIMELINE = NOW = MARCH 2011.

SUCCESS: If we are in a field of 96 and ranked 33rd or above and play on Tuesday or Monday, BC will win 4 games and be in the Sweet 16 and maybe the Elite 8 with Stevie D.

1--TRAPANI 6-7 RAVENEL 6-8 SOUTHERN 6-10 (Sore Shoulder healed), DUNN 6-8, and RAJI 6-6, -- will be in game shape and get better this summer and have new attitudes and the other bongettes will have quit which was not enforced after the Chinaman left.

MAybe NADO can be a player right out and you get 6 guys.

2--Paris 6-1, Jackson 6-3 and ELMORE 6-5 should be enough, but one more guard woulda been sweet.

So 30-30-20...big deal. Maybe you get 6 minutes from white gaulks Mosakowski 6-1 and Judge Rehnquist 6-4.

19-8
3-1 ACC
7-0 NCAA

29-9 CHAMPIONS.


ROLL ME AN 11 to the Title.

NOW is the time for success and turn that into recruiting magic.

When we win at least 3 NCAA Games..someone remind me of this post.

Grace periods are for pussies..I want a Title.


You got 10 guys...COACH EM UP!

THERE ARE NO MONSTER TEAMS IN THE 2011 TOURNAMENT.

WIN 6.

[BCEagle74]

THERE ARE NO MONSTER TEAMS IN THE 2011 TOURNAMENT.

WIN 6.

what about notre dame and their 3 ball?

Ok, I will change that thread title just for you and we will have a Final Four Omnibuster thread and not start a new one.

BC can beat anyone. You have one of those off shore bunnies.

Bet BC to win the regional.

[HJS]

I miss talon.