GDF: IT'S NOW TIME TO FIRE AL SKINNER AT END OF ACC TOURNEY!

[twballgame9]

I'd say that your fears are warranted. He'll have a hard time not getting 6-8 more wins next season with the team playing like it did at the end of the year. And that doesn't count for any improvement or contribution from the freshman (I'd say each is likely, but I would be inviting hypocrisy from OJ).

[Eagledom]

I'd say that your fears are warranted. He'll have a hard time not getting 6-8 more wins next season with the team playing like it did at the end of the year. And that doesn't count for any improvement or contribution from the freshman (I'd say each is likely, but I would be inviting hypocrisy from OJ).

So that maeans you think THIS team - no improvement and no significant contributions from freshmen - was 6-8 wins better than they finished. Wow, that means Al REALLY sucked this year.

[pick6pedro]

God forbid someone look ahead and predict performance on a sports message board.

This looks familiar. Oh yes, I said it practically verbatim when you told me I looked like an idiot for saying NCSU was a winnable game. What was that - 3 days ago?

I didn't say it was wrong to make a prediction. I said your prediction turned out to be wrong.

Since when was saying it is a winnable game predicting a win? Get back under your bridge.

[Eagledom]

God forbid someone look ahead and predict performance on a sports message board.

This looks familiar. Oh yes, I said it practically verbatim when you told me I looked like an idiot for saying NCSU was a winnable game. What was that - 3 days ago?

I didn't say it was wrong to make a prediction. I said your prediction turned out to be wrong.

Since when was saying it is a winnable game predicting a win? Get back under your bridge.

You were assuming a 7-9 record. Didn't happen.

[eepstein0]

I'd say that your fears are warranted. He'll have a hard time not getting 6-8 more wins next season with the team playing like it did at the end of the year. And that doesn't count for any improvement or contribution from the freshman (I'd say each is likely, but I would be inviting hypocrisy from OJ).

Yep that's what makes me nervous. The bottom line is if the team wins games, I really don't care who is coaching. I just think we're getting nowhere near a Final Four with Al Skinner at the helm.

[pick6pedro]

God forbid someone look ahead and predict performance on a sports message board.

This looks familiar. Oh yes, I said it practically verbatim when you told me I looked like an idiot for saying NCSU was a winnable game. What was that - 3 days ago?

I didn't say it was wrong to make a prediction. I said your prediction turned out to be wrong.

Since when was saying it is a winnable game predicting a win? Get back under your bridge.

You were assuming a 7-9 record. Didn't happen.

I was using 7-9 as an example of where they might finish. Did I not use 6-10 also to make the same point? Again, dense describes you perfectly. Now you'll probably tell me that I compared Uka Agbai to Dr. J. I really get a kick out of you and 94.

[Eagledom]

God forbid someone look ahead and predict performance on a sports message board.

This looks familiar. Oh yes, I said it practically verbatim when you told me I looked like an idiot for saying NCSU was a winnable game. What was that - 3 days ago?

I didn't say it was wrong to make a prediction. I said your prediction turned out to be wrong.

Since when was saying it is a winnable game predicting a win? Get back under your bridge.

You were assuming a 7-9 record. Didn't happen.

I was using 7-9 as an example of where they might finish. Did I not use 6-10 also to make the same point? .

Nope.

[pick6pedro]

It's a tough spot to be in. Obviously (unless your OJ and the gang) you don't want to cheer against BC in any regard. Especially if he is going to eek out just enough to please his bosses. Al is not what this program needs (thanks, but cya), but I can't bring myself to cheer for a shitty year or total implosion just so that change does get made.

[eepstein0]

It's a tough spot to be in. Obviously (unless your OJ and the gang) you don't want to cheer against BC in any regard. Especially if he is going to eek out just enough to please his bosses. Al is not what this program needs (thanks, but cya), but I can't bring myself to cheer for a shitty year or total implosion just so that change does get made.

This is where I'm torn also. I want the team to do well, but I don't really like Skinner as a coach.

[pick6pedro]

Nope.

Short-term memory problems?

"For the record, this team was 11 points from 9-7 and a tie for 5th place. Yet they CLEARLY didn't have the talent to be top 5 simply because they finished 6-10, right?"

[bcsoxfan12]

BC also has great fans that will show up when you give them something to cheer about.

The hockey team, over the past ten years, has been second to none, nationally. The team is a serious contender for its second national title in three seasons and they're averaging about 2700 empty seats a game.

I like hockey, BC hockey and Jerry York. Hockey is a different animal, you know it, I know and the American people know it.

We've been number 1 in sailing too, but I don't think your average basketball fan is going to rush to watch sailing.

Comparing hockey to sailing? LOL

Did you put retard marmalade on your English Muffin this morning?

Sorry, I thought you were intelligent enough to see the intended sarcasm. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that marmalade is your problem, just the brains or lack there of that god gave ya.

coming from the guy naive enough to think that BC fans will sell out Conte Forum based on the quality of the team inside the building, I'll take that as a compliment.

Sorry, I'll have to be more clear because you only understand the literal interpretation. Fill the venue on a consistent basis doesn't mean sell out every night. But I do think the right coach who plays an entertaining brand of basketball would be able to fill the arena for conference games on a regular basis. Look, the bottom line is if a coach can't coach his team to show up every game, how can you expect fans to show up every game?

Last year, BC was an NCAA tournament team. Other than the game against Duke or #3 WF, which games did you look around Conte Forum and say to yourself "this is an impressive crowd?"


And that still doesn't explain why the BEST COLLEGE HOCKEY TEAM over the past 12 years, currently a strong candidate to another National Championship playing in front of almost 3000 empty seats a night. If BC fans are staying away from basketball because they hate Skinner, then why are they staying away from hockey?

You can’t make the argument about hockey attendance and try to relate it to Bball you guys……. They’re two different stories Hockey is 12th in attendance, but you need to take out the top couple of teams such as Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota and Michigan’s of the world…let’s be realistic they’re the only game in town and on another level attendance wise. Hockey fans might agree on being B’s fans, but when it comes to the college game lines are drawn depending on what school you went to etc. For example I have UMASS Amherst and Lowell grads that go to BC games and cheer on the eagles, except when their school is in town. Four D1 programs are within a few miles of each other and for the casual college hockey fans with no ties, you can select from any of the programs. Not to mention HE play hurt the figures this year with 2 Tuesday night home games and “exciting” teams like Merrimack College + Providence College coming to Conte….where’s claver to jump in on this

[EaglesTalon]

You can’t make the argument about hockey attendance and try to relate it to Bball you guys……. They’re two different stories Hockey is 12th in attendance, but you need to take out the top couple of teams such as Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota and Michigan’s of the world…let’s be realistic they’re the only game in town and on another level attendance wise. Hockey fans might agree on being B’s fans, but when it comes to the college game lines are drawn depending on what school you went to etc. For example I have UMASS Amherst and Lowell grads that go to BC games and cheer on the eagles, except when their school is in town. Four D1 programs are within a few miles of each other and for the casual college hockey fans with no ties, you can select from any of the programs. Not to mention HE play hurt the figures this year with 2 Tuesday night home games and “exciting” teams like Merrimack College + Providence College coming to Conte….where’s claver to jump in on this

True or False?: BC, over the past 10+ years, has been the cream of the crop in the college hockey world.
True or False?: BC is in prime position to grab a #1 seed in this year's tournament, which would make them favored to advance to another Frozen Four.
True or False?: BC is averaging 2700 empty seats per game this season.

[BCFAN94]

I really don't know what your "major" points are and frankly don't care. All I know is that BC has a great campus, is in a great city, plays and has played in one of the top conference in the country. BC also has great fans that will show up when you give them something to cheer about. If a coach can't recruit, fill the venue, win games consistently, given those "hurdles" as you call them then he isn't what I consider to be successful. Your feeble attempts to berate me aren't going to change my mind. You can go on thinking that Al turned Lenny Walls in to Kobe Bryant and Uka Agbai is Wilt Chamberlain, and Nate Doornekamp is Larry Bird, but I don't. Al has been a decent coach, but that's it. I think BC deserves better.

Wow, you openly admit you've blatantly ignored what I've said. Usually to make at least a decent argument, don't you need to know what you're arguing about/against? And then you go on to do EXACTLY what I said people would do when I called Uka serviceable - you exaggerate the level of ball I said their game was raised too. Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird? Pavlov says hi.

BC has great fans? Now we're in an alternative universe for sure. Does a great fan base only cheer when the team gives them something to cheer about? No. Great fan bases show up, show up on time, cheer often, and cheer early - no matter what is going on. None of these describe any game at Conte Forum except Duke and (sometimes) UNC. Even when people do show, they sit on their hands so they can hear the squeaking of Air Force Ones. Over the last decade BC's attendance has gotten as high as #72 in D1...but is usually firmly planted in the 90's. Great job fans! Has there been nothing to cheer about during that whole stretch? Guess so.

None of those things you list are the hurdles that I refer to, you just decide to gloss them over apparently (kinda like how you gloss over the momentum Al built over the first 8/9 years of his career). Don't you find it ironic that one of his best recruiting classes on paper was signed when he was riding that momentum - you know that same one that is struggling so mightily now? Interesting you STILL haven't answered my direct questions and STILL resort to nothing but hyperbole.

And to further show how much you miss the main points - I think BC deserves better too (and have stated such on this board over and over again). You like to confuse my statements that Al has had success and does some things well with saying that Al should be the coach for life and is the best option for this program. Again, falling right into what I predicted. Try to follow along sweetheart because you're embarrassing yourself.

No, BC fans are great fans but also smart fans. They won't sit there and eat the gruel that you put in front of them, they have choices and will exercise their options. If BC basketball can't draw fans in, even fans who live on campus and get discounted tickets, even fans who have paid for the right to sit in a seat and a ticket for admission, it's time to look within the organization, not outside at the fans. Al's brand of basketball just isn't that exciting. Sure when he gets up by double digits or keeps it close with good teams in the first half it may be slightly entertaining but when he gives it all back in the first 5 minutes of the second half, I feel like it's deja vu all over again.

And I have to say, I find it painful to get through your posts and do skip over your points because frankly you are a bore and a jerk. If you'd like to discuss my opinions and go point to point, fine, but I would suggest you change your approach, otherwise just go away.

[EaglesTalon]

No, BC fans are great fans but also smart fans. They won't sit there and eat the gruel that you put in front of them, they have choices and will exercise their options.

Why are these "great" and "smart" fans staying away from BC hockey games?

[eepstein0]

We have the worst first 5 minutes of the second half and the worst last 5 minutes of the game. It's astonishing. It's also poor coaching.

[pick6pedro]

No, BC fans are great fans but also smart fans. They won't sit there and eat the gruel that you put in front of them, they have choices and will exercise their options. If BC basketball can't draw fans in, even fans who live on campus and get discounted tickets, even fans who have paid for the right to sit in a seat and a ticket for admission, it's time to look within the organization, not outside at the fans. Al's brand of basketball just isn't that exciting. Sure when he gets up by double digits or keeps it close with good teams in the first half it may be slightly entertaining but when he gives it all back in the first 5 minutes of the second half, I feel like it's deja vu all over again.

At least you admit you were wrong about them being great. I agree, some of the blame is on the admin, but you yourself said that you put a good product on the court, and they'll come (but they don't). You can't completely absolve the fan base for their lack of support and enthusiasm because they're "smart". Now you're just spinning again.

And I have to say, I find it painful to get through your posts and do skip over your points because frankly you are a bore and a jerk. If you'd like to discuss my opinions and go point to point, fine, but I would suggest you change your approach, otherwise just go away.

What you've missed is that I do address all your points, while you do your best to ignore all mine or make up an argument you can actually respond to. Kinda hypocritical wouldn't you say? And now you're asking me to "go away" after asking a question of me then continuing to respond with hyperbole? Speaking of which, great discussion you've encouraged through accusing me of mistaking Uka for Wilt.

If you can't handle ribbing during a discussion, then I don't know what to tell you diva.

[BCFAN94]

You can’t make the argument about hockey attendance and try to relate it to Bball you guys……. They’re two different stories Hockey is 12th in attendance, but you need to take out the top couple of teams such as Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota and Michigan’s of the world…let’s be realistic they’re the only game in town and on another level attendance wise. Hockey fans might agree on being B’s fans, but when it comes to the college game lines are drawn depending on what school you went to etc. For example I have UMASS Amherst and Lowell grads that go to BC games and cheer on the eagles, except when their school is in town. Four D1 programs are within a few miles of each other and for the casual college hockey fans with no ties, you can select from any of the programs. Not to mention HE play hurt the figures this year with 2 Tuesday night home games and “exciting” teams like Merrimack College + Providence College coming to Conte….where’s claver to jump in on this

True or False?: BC, over the past 10+ years, has been the cream of the crop in the college hockey world.
True or False?: BC is in prime position to grab a #1 seed in this year's tournament, which would make them favored to advance to another Frozen Four.
True or False?: BC is averaging 2700 empty seats per game this season.

Did I say I like hockey, BC hockey and Jerry York? If not, I do. Seriously, hockey is the national sport of Canada, not the US. Hockey, especially college hockey, does not have many casual fans to fill in the gaps in arena's. So even if your team is winning, and it's not playoff or championship hockey, you aren't going to get the casual fan. In basketball however, more people understand the game, can keep up with it and if it is exciting, will come to see a team that they may not have a specific rooting interest in. Your still talking about hockey averaging 5000 fans when they play the same opponents two nights in a row and very rarely do they bring what would be considered a big name opponent. I think 5000 fans on average is pretty damn good. Now, if they want to fill in the arena, they should drop the automatic disqualificaiton and game misconduct for fighting and sell beer.

[EaglesTalon]

You can’t make the argument about hockey attendance and try to relate it to Bball you guys……. They’re two different stories Hockey is 12th in attendance, but you need to take out the top couple of teams such as Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota and Michigan’s of the world…let’s be realistic they’re the only game in town and on another level attendance wise. Hockey fans might agree on being B’s fans, but when it comes to the college game lines are drawn depending on what school you went to etc. For example I have UMASS Amherst and Lowell grads that go to BC games and cheer on the eagles, except when their school is in town. Four D1 programs are within a few miles of each other and for the casual college hockey fans with no ties, you can select from any of the programs. Not to mention HE play hurt the figures this year with 2 Tuesday night home games and “exciting” teams like Merrimack College + Providence College coming to Conte….where’s claver to jump in on this

True or False?: BC, over the past 10+ years, has been the cream of the crop in the college hockey world.
True or False?: BC is in prime position to grab a #1 seed in this year's tournament, which would make them favored to advance to another Frozen Four.
True or False?: BC is averaging 2700 empty seats per game this season.

Did I say I like hockey, BC hockey and Jerry York? If not, I do. Seriously, hockey is the national sport of Canada, not the US. Hockey, especially college hockey, does not have many casual fans to fill in the gaps in arena's. So even if your team is winning, and it's not playoff or championship hockey, you aren't going to get the casual fan. In basketball however, more people understand the game, can keep up with it and if it is exciting, will come to see a team that they may not have a specific rooting interest in. Your still talking about hockey averaging 5000 fans when they play the same opponents two nights in a row and very rarely do they bring what would be considered a big name opponent. I think 5000 fans on average is pretty damn good. Now, if they want to fill in the arena, they should drop the automatic disqualificaiton and game misconduct for fighting and sell beer.

you actually believe this? you honestly believe that BC grads just don't understand hockey? You're even more retarded than I thought.

[bcsoxfan12]

You can’t make the argument about hockey attendance and try to relate it to Bball you guys……. They’re two different stories Hockey is 12th in attendance, but you need to take out the top couple of teams such as Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota and Michigan’s of the world…let’s be realistic they’re the only game in town and on another level attendance wise. Hockey fans might agree on being B’s fans, but when it comes to the college game lines are drawn depending on what school you went to etc. For example I have UMASS Amherst and Lowell grads that go to BC games and cheer on the eagles, except when their school is in town. Four D1 programs are within a few miles of each other and for the casual college hockey fans with no ties, you can select from any of the programs. Not to mention HE play hurt the figures this year with 2 Tuesday night home games and “exciting” teams like Merrimack College + Providence College coming to Conte….where’s claver to jump in on this

True or False?: BC, over the past 10+ years, has been the cream of the crop in the college hockey world.
True or False?: BC is in prime position to grab a #1 seed in this year's tournament, which would make them favored to advance to another Frozen Four.
True or False?: BC is averaging 2700 empty seats per game this season.

Did I say I like hockey, BC hockey and Jerry York? If not, I do. Seriously, hockey is the national sport of Canada, not the US. Hockey, especially college hockey, does not have many casual fans to fill in the gaps in arena's. So even if your team is winning, and it's not playoff or championship hockey, you aren't going to get the casual fan. In basketball however, more people understand the game, can keep up with it and if it is exciting, will come to see a team that they may not have a specific rooting interest in. Your still talking about hockey averaging 5000 fans when they play the same opponents two nights in a row and very rarely do they bring what would be considered a big name opponent. I think 5000 fans on average is pretty damn good. Now, if they want to fill in the arena, they should drop the automatic disqualificaiton and game misconduct for fighting and sell beer.

you actually believe this? you honestly believe that BC grads just don't understand hockey? You're even more retarded than I thought.

I'm sorry I got involved I was just trying to point something out about hockey, but I'm backing away from this

[BCFAN94]

You can’t make the argument about hockey attendance and try to relate it to Bball you guys……. They’re two different stories Hockey is 12th in attendance, but you need to take out the top couple of teams such as Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota and Michigan’s of the world…let’s be realistic they’re the only game in town and on another level attendance wise. Hockey fans might agree on being B’s fans, but when it comes to the college game lines are drawn depending on what school you went to etc. For example I have UMASS Amherst and Lowell grads that go to BC games and cheer on the eagles, except when their school is in town. Four D1 programs are within a few miles of each other and for the casual college hockey fans with no ties, you can select from any of the programs. Not to mention HE play hurt the figures this year with 2 Tuesday night home games and “exciting” teams like Merrimack College + Providence College coming to Conte….where’s claver to jump in on this

True or False?: BC, over the past 10+ years, has been the cream of the crop in the college hockey world.
True or False?: BC is in prime position to grab a #1 seed in this year's tournament, which would make them favored to advance to another Frozen Four.
True or False?: BC is averaging 2700 empty seats per game this season.

Did I say I like hockey, BC hockey and Jerry York? If not, I do. Seriously, hockey is the national sport of Canada, not the US. Hockey, especially college hockey, does not have many casual fans to fill in the gaps in arena's. So even if your team is winning, and it's not playoff or championship hockey, you aren't going to get the casual fan. In basketball however, more people understand the game, can keep up with it and if it is exciting, will come to see a team that they may not have a specific rooting interest in. Your still talking about hockey averaging 5000 fans when they play the same opponents two nights in a row and very rarely do they bring what would be considered a big name opponent. I think 5000 fans on average is pretty damn good. Now, if they want to fill in the arena, they should drop the automatic disqualificaiton and game misconduct for fighting and sell beer.

you actually believe this? you honestly believe that BC grads just don't understand hockey? You're even more retarded than I thought.

Where did I say BC grads don't understand college hockey? Would BC grads be considered casual fans? I think you might need a new prescription for you glasses at least I hope that's all it is. Maybe you have a tumor or something, you should get checked out.

[EaglesTalon]

I honestly don't understand your point. You say BC fans are awesome, but they're smart enough to stay away if they don't like the product, no? Which would suggest that BC fans don't like the product that Jerry York puts out.

Just curious, when was the last time you attended a BC hockey game?

[BCEagle74]

The Baby Jesus watches every BC Hockey Game.

Jesus told me.

[bcsoxfan12]

The Baby Jesus watches every BC Hockey Game.

Jesus told me.

YES he does, look at how he brought Merrimack back from the dead this year!! *side note* He also kicked ass at last year's halloween game

[BCFAN94]

I honestly don't understand your point. You say BC fans are awesome, but they're smart enough to stay away if they don't like the product, no? Which would suggest that BC fans don't like the product that Jerry York puts out.

Just curious, when was the last time you attended a BC hockey game?

Why?

[commavegarage]

FWIW you take out the aberrations (i.e. where hockey is king- Upper Midwest) and hockey is top 5 in attendance nationally.

And to that Skinner point- yes, it is a very tough position to be in as a fan. With a college right around the corner for Skinner's kids, he isn't going anywhere unless forced to, so it will probably take another season like this (maybe even worse) to get him out. I'd say there are over 20-1 odds that he will get fired should he make the tournament at all. Gene loves mediocrity.

[EaglesTalon]

FWIW you take out the aberrations (i.e. where hockey is king- Upper Midwest) and hockey is top 5 in attendance nationally.

2700 empty seats per game.

[commavegarage]

FWIW you take out the aberrations (i.e. where hockey is king- Upper Midwest) and hockey is top 5 in attendance nationally.

2700 empty seats per game.

If we played in a 20,000 seat venue and averaged 14,000 you'd complain we average 6,000 empty seats per game.

[EaglesTalon]

FWIW you take out the aberrations (i.e. where hockey is king- Upper Midwest) and hockey is top 5 in attendance nationally.

2700 empty seats per game.

If we played in a 20,000 seat venue and averaged 14,000 you'd complain we average 6,000 empty seats per game.

Q: Do we play in a 20,000 seat venue?

A: No.

[commavegarage]

FWIW you take out the aberrations (i.e. where hockey is king- Upper Midwest) and hockey is top 5 in attendance nationally.

2700 empty seats per game.

If we played in a 20,000 seat venue and averaged 14,000 you'd complain we average 6,000 empty seats per game.

Q: Do we play in a 20,000 seat venue?

A: No.

That's why I said if.

I'm not going to get into an argument with you. We are top 5 in the nation in attendance outside of the Midwest. That's all that needs to be said. You judge how good attendance is by the amount of empty seats, I judge how good attendance is by the amount of filled seats.

[EaglesTalon]

FWIW you take out the aberrations (i.e. where hockey is king- Upper Midwest) and hockey is top 5 in attendance nationally.

2700 empty seats per game.

If we played in a 20,000 seat venue and averaged 14,000 you'd complain we average 6,000 empty seats per game.

Q: Do we play in a 20,000 seat venue?

A: No.

That's why I said if.

I'm not going to get into an argument with you. We are top 5 in the nation in attendance outside of the Midwest. That's all that needs to be said. You judge how good attendance is by the amount of empty seats, I judge how good attendance is by the amount of filled seats.

Honestly, how many times this year have you been inside Conte Forum for a hockey game and been really impressed with the size and quality of the crowd?