time to go Al...

[Eagledom]

I am going to go on record here and say that Al Skinner's success must be derivative of something. Not a huge stretch.

The question is, why? I agree that he runs an outdated and easily defensed offense, that his teams lack defensive intensity, and that he doesn't make many adjustments during games. I am indifferent on his philosophy of making the players fix their mistakes rather than micromanaging - at times it fails (this team), but more often it has been a huge success because of the players he has brought in.

Which leads me to the final point. Somebody on BC's hoop staff over the past 10 years has either been an awesome recruiter or an excellent developer of talent. The list of guys with little acclaim that have gone on to huge success beyond expectation is somewhat staggering. If we take OJ's premise that most of these guys didn't improve after arriving (a dumb premise for all but Smith, who did a PG with a borderline NBA team, but bear with me) then the talent identification is ridiculous. Landing Bell, Smith, Dudley, Rice, Hinnant, Marshall. Being one of the few coaches to notice Brandon Roy and Andre Igudola.

Of course, then you say "well why limit yourself to these diamonds in the rough? Why can't we get 4&5 star players." This is the crux of the matter. This argument can't be made without reference to a horribly flawed star system that thinks Cameron Derosiers is a star. Two comments on this: (1) people who rely on stars to say someone is a bad recruiter are fucking retarded, and (2) let's look at the players Al has gotten that have been highly rated. *** *******. Rakim Sanders. Shamari Spears. See any common thread?

Now, if you believe in the star system, then you must accept that the BC coaches are coaching these lower ranked guys up. The problem with this "Al sucks at everything argument" is that is makes no sense. So OJ relies on "Al got lucky with three guys and they carried the program for 10 years." That is beyond absurd.

Al Skinner is a mediocre game planner and poor in game coach. He does everything else very well. This team needs a good game planner and in-game coach to guide the team and win close games. His past teams have not needed that.

Those 3 recruits certainly carried BC for most of Al's tenure, and all of his successful years. Notice how we have not been good since Dudley and Smith left? Its because Al's recruiting over the past 7 years or so has downright SUCKED.

BC played in the NCAA tournament last season. If his recruiting for the six years prior sucked, then he must be a good coach to make the tourney with sucky players.

And the idea that three players can carry a program for 10 years is one of your dumber statements, which is saying something. To make the tourney, you need two or three very good players on every team. BC has made the tourney 7 of the last 9 years.

Last year's team was mediocre at best and showed it in the first round of the tourney. And you don't need much more than one or two very good players to perform how BC has over Al's tenure. The Bell teams were Bell and a bunch of role players, and the Smith and Dudley were the core for the remainder of those tourney teams. To say you need 2-3 VERY good players to make the touney is stupid. We made the tourney last year. Who were those 3 VERY GOOD players?

[twballgame9]

BC played in the NCAA tournament last season. If his recruiting for the six years prior sucked, then he must be a good coach to make the tourney with sucky players.

Cue: "You're content getting to the NCAA tournament."

OJ's as predictable as Aunt Flo.

Fact is, shitting on Al for this season is warranted. But the reason it is warranted is because the team has a lot of talent and is grossly underachieving. That is the sign of a bad coaching job.

Where OJ and Art and the like epically fail is when they try to say that this year's team has no talent, and that Al can't recruit, and that Al can't develop players. Because if that is the case, then this year's team is exactly where it should be and past teams have been coached well, not poorly.

I am inclined to believe that Al is not a great coach while the game is going on. But there is a body of work that can't be ignored, and the most plausible explanation is that Al (or someone on his staff) has a great eye for finding and developing talent.

[twballgame9]

Pedro, I do have to say that is fucking fun as shit to watch OJ go around in circles trying to prove that the world is both round and flat at the same time.

He thinks Al is a bad coach. So we ask him if he thinks the players he recruited are good then, since they have been in the tourney 7 of the last 9 years, have won the Big East tourney championship once, regular season twice, made the ACC finals in an epic battle with Duke, made the Sweet 16 once and the round of 32 three times. He says, no, he sucks at recruiting too. We say, then he must be a good coach. He says no, all that shit he did was mediocre. And that we must like mediocrity.

It makes an otherwise dull Friday afternoon in the office so enjoyable.

[pick6pedro]

It makes an otherwise dull Friday afternoon in the office so enjoyable.

[Eagledom]

BC played in the NCAA tournament last season. If his recruiting for the six years prior sucked, then he must be a good coach to make the tourney with sucky players.

Cue: "You're content getting to the NCAA tournament."

OJ's as predictable as Aunt Flo.

Fact is, shitting on Al for this season is warranted. But the reason it is warranted is because the team has a lot of talent and is grossly underachieving. That is the sign of a bad coaching job.

Where OJ and Art and the like epically fail is when they try to say that this year's team has no talent, and that Al can't recruit, and that Al can't develop players. Because if that is the case, then this year's team is exactly where it should be and past teams have been coached well, not poorly.

I am inclined to believe that Al is not a great coach while the game is going on. But there is a body of work that can't be ignored, and the most plausible explanation is that Al (or someone on his staff) has a great eye for finding and developing talent.

Someone on the staff found Bell, Smith, and Dudley....I don't care what you say, they carried BC for a good 8 years. Other than that the recruiting has been bad. Lets look at the last 6 years:

2004: McLain, Watt, Williams, Oates. I'll give him 1 of 4 and that one couldn't stick around for more than a year and a half
2005: Haynes, Neisler, Rice. 1 of 3
2006: Kaba, Roche, Spears. 0 for 3
2007: Dunn, Paris, raji, Sanders, Southern. Al struck out here. This is the core of the current team that is at the bottom of the ACC.
2008: Elmore, Jackson, Ravenel. 1 good recruit and 2 role players
2009: None.

6 years of shit.

[Eagledom]

Pedro, I do have to say that is fucking fun as shit to watch OJ go around in circles trying to prove that the world is both round and flat at the same time.

He thinks Al is a bad coach. So we ask him if he thinks the players he recruited are good then, since they have been in the tourney 7 of the last 9 years, have won the Big East tourney championship once, regular season twice, made the ACC finals in an epic battle with Duke, made the Sweet 16 once and the round of 32 three times. He says, no, he sucks at recruiting too. We say, then he must be a good coach. He says no, all that shit he did was mediocre. And that we must like mediocrity.

It makes an otherwise dull Friday afternoon in the office so enjoyable.

Fact is, you can't read. Al has had success in the past. That success was based almost entirely on three players and its questionable how much he even had to do with recruiting them since he hasn't recruited shit in 6 years. Since the last of those 3 guys left BC, Al has had two crap years and one mediocre year.

[twballgame9]

Bell played with Sidney (the team was shit the year before when Bell was a frosh) for two seasons and then Smith for a third. Smith played with Bell, and then two seasons with Dudley. BC's best team had 3 really good players (Smith, Dudley, Williams) and three good players (Hinnant, Marshall and Rice as a freshman). The next season, they had three really good players (Dudley, Williams for most of the season, Rice) and a good player (Marshall).

Ironically, Rice is the only guy that could be said to have carried the team, since the same team sucks now that he is gone. Of course the team sucked the year before, too, so I am inclined to believe that more should be said about the fact that Trapani and Sanders were better last season.

[twballgame9]

Pedro, I do have to say that is fucking fun as shit to watch OJ go around in circles trying to prove that the world is both round and flat at the same time.

He thinks Al is a bad coach. So we ask him if he thinks the players he recruited are good then, since they have been in the tourney 7 of the last 9 years, have won the Big East tourney championship once, regular season twice, made the ACC finals in an epic battle with Duke, made the Sweet 16 once and the round of 32 three times. He says, no, he sucks at recruiting too. We say, then he must be a good coach. He says no, all that shit he did was mediocre. And that we must like mediocrity.

It makes an otherwise dull Friday afternoon in the office so enjoyable.

Fact is, you can't read. Al has had success in the past. That success was based almost entirely on three players and its questionable how much he even had to do with recruiting them since he hasn't recruited shit in 6 years. Since the last of those 3 guys left BC, Al has had two crap years and one mediocre year.

We can do this for just this season. You think that this team is poorly coached and has no talent. If they have no talent, aren't they exactly where they should be? Would a different coach make talent appear? If the team is poorly coached, then isn't that an indication that you think there is talent there, that it is not being coached properly, all of which requires an admission that Al brought in said talent? Looking to past seasons simply supports the point: either Al is a good recruiter and bad coach, or he is a bad recruiter and good coach. I say the former. But it can't be both.

This bitch slapping could have come right out of the Republic.

[Art Vandelay]

BC played in the NCAA tournament last season. If his recruiting for the six years prior sucked, then he must be a good coach to make the tourney with sucky players.

Cue: "You're content getting to the NCAA tournament."

OJ's as predictable as Aunt Flo.

Fact is, shitting on Al for this season is warranted. But the reason it is warranted is because the team has a lot of talent and is grossly underachieving. That is the sign of a bad coaching job.

Where OJ and Art and the like epically fail is when they try to say that this year's team has no talent, and that Al can't recruit, and that Al can't develop players. Because if that is the case, then this year's team is exactly where it should be and past teams have been coached well, not poorly.

I am inclined to believe that Al is not a great coach while the game is going on. But there is a body of work that can't be ignored, and the most plausible explanation is that Al (or someone on his staff) has a great eye for finding and developing talent.

I never said they have no talent, but they are not talented enough. I said very clearly Al has had success in the past and whether that was due to his recruiting, his non game coaching or his assistant coaches I have no idea. He gets credit for having a degree of success in the regular season. I never said Al can't develop players, because he has, but the fact is this group of juniors has regressed. As I said I don't have insight into whether Dudley and Smith succeeded because Al did a brilliant recruiting job or developed them (though I would lean toward the latter).

This team does not have the talent to compete at a high level in the ACC. I agree they are underachieving, but really that just means they are bottom of the conference instead of middle.

[Art Vandelay]

Pedro, I do have to say that is fucking fun as shit to watch OJ go around in circles trying to prove that the world is both round and flat at the same time.

He thinks Al is a bad coach. So we ask him if he thinks the players he recruited are good then, since they have been in the tourney 7 of the last 9 years, have won the Big East tourney championship once, regular season twice, made the ACC finals in an epic battle with Duke, made the Sweet 16 once and the round of 32 three times. He says, no, he sucks at recruiting too. We say, then he must be a good coach. He says no, all that shit he did was mediocre. And that we must like mediocrity.

It makes an otherwise dull Friday afternoon in the office so enjoyable.

Fact is, you can't read. Al has had success in the past. That success was based almost entirely on three players and its questionable how much he even had to do with recruiting them since he hasn't recruited shit in 6 years. Since the last of those 3 guys left BC, Al has had two crap years and one mediocre year.

We can do this for just this season. You think that this team is poorly coached and has no talent. If they have no talent, aren't they exactly where they should be? Would a different coach make talent appear? If the team is poorly coached, then isn't that an indication that you think there is talent there, that it is not being coached properly, all of which requires an admission that Al brought in said talent? Looking to past seasons simply supports the point: either Al is a good recruiter and bad coach, or he is a bad recruiter and good coach. I say the former. But it can't be both.

This bitch slapping could have come right out of the Republic.

Game coaching and player development are not the same thing. He is a poor game coach. In practice he could be John Wooden for all I know.

[Eagledom]

Pedro, I do have to say that is fucking fun as shit to watch OJ go around in circles trying to prove that the world is both round and flat at the same time.

He thinks Al is a bad coach. So we ask him if he thinks the players he recruited are good then, since they have been in the tourney 7 of the last 9 years, have won the Big East tourney championship once, regular season twice, made the ACC finals in an epic battle with Duke, made the Sweet 16 once and the round of 32 three times. He says, no, he sucks at recruiting too. We say, then he must be a good coach. He says no, all that shit he did was mediocre. And that we must like mediocrity.

It makes an otherwise dull Friday afternoon in the office so enjoyable.

Fact is, you can't read. Al has had success in the past. That success was based almost entirely on three players and its questionable how much he even had to do with recruiting them since he hasn't recruited shit in 6 years. Since the last of those 3 guys left BC, Al has had two crap years and one mediocre year.

We can do this for just this season. You think that this team is poorly coached and has no talent. If they have no talent, aren't they exactly where they should be? Would a different coach make talent appear? If the team is poorly coached, then isn't that an indication that you think there is talent there, that it is not being coached properly, all of which requires an admission that Al brought in said talent? Looking to past seasons simply supports the point: either Al is a good recruiter and bad coach, or he is a bad recruiter and good coach. I say the former. But it can't be both.

This bitch slapping could have come right out of the Republic.

This year, the team is a little below where they should be. They don't have ACC-contending talent, but probably enough to finish 7-9 or so. Yet they are performing even worse than that and have lost to Harvard, St Joes, URI, etc....So yes, not much talent AND bad coaching and the result is a HORRIBLE season as opposed to just a sub-par season.

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Not to mention that since your bar for a successful coach is so low, its easy for you to argue that his "success" means that he's either a good coach or a good recruiter.

[b0mberMan]

This thread got funny, then annoying, then funny, then annoying.

It's funny again.

[twballgame9]

BC played in the NCAA tournament last season. If his recruiting for the six years prior sucked, then he must be a good coach to make the tourney with sucky players.

Cue: "You're content getting to the NCAA tournament."

OJ's as predictable as Aunt Flo.

Fact is, shitting on Al for this season is warranted. But the reason it is warranted is because the team has a lot of talent and is grossly underachieving. That is the sign of a bad coaching job.

Where OJ and Art and the like epically fail is when they try to say that this year's team has no talent, and that Al can't recruit, and that Al can't develop players. Because if that is the case, then this year's team is exactly where it should be and past teams have been coached well, not poorly.

I am inclined to believe that Al is not a great coach while the game is going on. But there is a body of work that can't be ignored, and the most plausible explanation is that Al (or someone on his staff) has a great eye for finding and developing talent.

I never said they have no talent, but they are not talented enough. I said very clearly Al has had success in the past and whether that was due to his recruiting, his non game coaching or his assistant coaches I have no idea. He gets credit for having a degree of success in the regular season. I never said Al can't develop players, because he has, but the fact is this group of juniors has regressed. As I said I don't have insight into whether Dudley and Smith succeeded because Al did a brilliant recruiting job or developed them (though I would lean toward the latter).

This team does not have the talent to compete at a high level in the ACC. I agree they are underachieving, but really that just means they are bottom of the conference instead of middle.

My apologies for attributing OJ's stupidity to you.

From what I have seen in the ACC, and from what I have seen of these players last season, BC has enough talent to be one of the top 3-5 teams in the ACC. Problem from what I can see is that they have no PG and the talent that they do have can't create their own shots. Which has led to (1) a miserably fucking pathetic nightly effort from Sanders, who mopes around and then has to go out and take threes to get shots, and (2) some god awful chucking by Trapani. Those are the two guys most effected by Biko Paris sucking at basketball.

For me, this season can be explained by one failure of Al: he misjudged Biko Paris, and he mistakenly believed that he didn't need to bring in another PG now.

[pick6pedro]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

[twballgame9]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

[pick6pedro]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

[Art Vandelay]

BC played in the NCAA tournament last season. If his recruiting for the six years prior sucked, then he must be a good coach to make the tourney with sucky players.

Cue: "You're content getting to the NCAA tournament."

OJ's as predictable as Aunt Flo.

Fact is, shitting on Al for this season is warranted. But the reason it is warranted is because the team has a lot of talent and is grossly underachieving. That is the sign of a bad coaching job.

Where OJ and Art and the like epically fail is when they try to say that this year's team has no talent, and that Al can't recruit, and that Al can't develop players. Because if that is the case, then this year's team is exactly where it should be and past teams have been coached well, not poorly.

I am inclined to believe that Al is not a great coach while the game is going on. But there is a body of work that can't be ignored, and the most plausible explanation is that Al (or someone on his staff) has a great eye for finding and developing talent.

I never said they have no talent, but they are not talented enough. I said very clearly Al has had success in the past and whether that was due to his recruiting, his non game coaching or his assistant coaches I have no idea. He gets credit for having a degree of success in the regular season. I never said Al can't develop players, because he has, but the fact is this group of juniors has regressed. As I said I don't have insight into whether Dudley and Smith succeeded because Al did a brilliant recruiting job or developed them (though I would lean toward the latter).

This team does not have the talent to compete at a high level in the ACC. I agree they are underachieving, but really that just means they are bottom of the conference instead of middle.

My apologies for attributing OJ's stupidity to you.

From what I have seen in the ACC, and from what I have seen of these players last season, BC has enough talent to be one of the top 3-5 teams in the ACC. Problem from what I can see is that they have no PG and the talent that they do have can't create their own shots. Which has led to (1) a miserably fucking pathetic nightly effort from Sanders, who mopes around and then has to go out and take threes to get shots, and (2) some god awful chucking by Trapani. Those are the two guys most effected by Biko Paris sucking at basketball.

For me, this season can be explained by one failure of Al: he misjudged Biko Paris, and he mistakenly believed that he didn't need to bring in another PG now.

I agree with you on Biko and unfortunately Reggie is just not a point guard. Point guard is critical and we do not have one. You also can't discount the lack of any kind of big man. Southern we have all agreed is a major bust and a big pussy.

[EaglesTalon]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

crazy, isn't it? I hope OJ's not a lawyer.

[Eagledom]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

[twballgame9]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Yes, because all teams should have three players get drafted by the NBA ... er, wait a minute.

[Eagledom]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Yes, because all teams should have three players get drafted by the NBA ... er, wait a minute.

Dudley and Smith were two of them, dope. You might want to think twice before using NBA talent as evidence that Al has recruited well. That might backfire a bit. Oops, it just did.

[twballgame9]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Yes, because all teams should have three players get drafted by the NBA ... er, wait a minute.

Dudley and Smith were two of them, dope. You might want to think twice before using NBA talent as evidence that Al has recruited well. That might backfire a bit. Oops, it just did.

You're the fucktard that can't recognize that three of them played on the same team. BC teams were only good when BC had 2-3 very good players on the same team at the same time. Of course, you discount Sidney and Williams for not graduating (as if that had anything to do with talent) and Sidney, Rice and Marshall for not getting drafted (but yet don't discount Bell)

Fact is, since 2001, BC has had at least 2, and often 3, and once 5, very good college basketball players at the same time in most seasons. 7 of 9, to be exact.

[pick6pedro]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Leave it to the Juice to ignore the huge impact of a strong supporting cast who not only knows their role but plays it and well. FAIL!

[Eagledom]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Yes, because all teams should have three players get drafted by the NBA ... er, wait a minute.

Dudley and Smith were two of them, dope. You might want to think twice before using NBA talent as evidence that Al has recruited well. That might backfire a bit. Oops, it just did.

Fact is, since 2001, BC has had at least 2, and often 3, and once 5, very good college basketball players at the same time in most seasons. 7 of 9, to be exact.

This is complete bullshit. And the fact that Dudley and Smith & Smith and Bell played together doesn't change anything. Al lived off that core of 3 players for years. And you conveniently ignored the list of recruits the last 6 years that demonstrates that Al is not making a living off finding the Smith, Bells, and Dudleys of the recruiting world.

[Eagledom]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Leave it to the Juice to ignore the huge impact of a strong supporting cast who not only knows their role but plays it and well. FAIL!

Funny, I never used that adjective. Nice effort.

[eepstein0]

I am going to go on record here and say that Al Skinner's success must be derivative of something. Not a huge stretch.

The question is, why? I agree that he runs an outdated and easily defensed offense, that his teams lack defensive intensity, and that he doesn't make many adjustments during games. I am indifferent on his philosophy of making the players fix their mistakes rather than micromanaging - at times it fails (this team), but more often it has been a huge success because of the players he has brought in.

Which leads me to the final point. Somebody on BC's hoop staff over the past 10 years has either been an awesome recruiter or an excellent developer of talent. The list of guys with little acclaim that have gone on to huge success beyond expectation is somewhat staggering. If we take OJ's premise that most of these guys didn't improve after arriving (a dumb premise for all but Smith, who did a PG with a borderline NBA team, but bear with me) then the talent identification is ridiculous. Landing Bell, Smith, Dudley, Rice, Hinnant, Marshall. Being one of the few coaches to notice Brandon Roy and Andre Igudola.

Of course, then you say "well why limit yourself to these diamonds in the rough? Why can't we get 4&5 star players." This is the crux of the matter. This argument can't be made without reference to a horribly flawed star system that thinks Cameron Derosiers is a star. Two comments on this: (1) people who rely on stars to say someone is a bad recruiter are fucking retarded, and (2) let's look at the players Al has gotten that have been highly rated. *** *******. Rakim Sanders. Shamari Spears. See any common thread?

Now, if you believe in the star system, then you must accept that the BC coaches are coaching these lower ranked guys up. The problem with this "Al sucks at everything argument" is that is makes no sense. So OJ relies on "Al got lucky with three guys and they carried the program for 10 years." That is beyond absurd.

Al Skinner is a mediocre game planner and poor in game coach. He does everything else very well. This team needs a good game planner and in-game coach to guide the team and win close games. His past teams have not needed that.

I agree with absolutely everything in this post except for the fact that Al needs to recruit some bigger, athletic players. We don't have the athletes right now nor the size to play in the ACC.

[pick6pedro]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Leave it to the Juice to ignore the huge impact of a strong supporting cast who not only knows their role but plays it and well. FAIL!

Funny, I never used that adjective. Nice effort.

I didn't attribute the "strong" to you bozo. The supporting casts were strong and you refuse to give credit to Al for putting together teams with role players who knew and played their roles well. Oh, I forgot, 9 guys on a roster can average 20 ppg and pull down 13 boards too.

[twballgame9]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Yes, because all teams should have three players get drafted by the NBA ... er, wait a minute.

Dudley and Smith were two of them, dope. You might want to think twice before using NBA talent as evidence that Al has recruited well. That might backfire a bit. Oops, it just did.

Fact is, since 2001, BC has had at least 2, and often 3, and once 5, very good college basketball players at the same time in most seasons. 7 of 9, to be exact.

This is complete bullshit.

00-01 Bell/Sidney
01-02 Bell/Sidney
02-03 Bell/Sidney/Smith
03-04 Smith/Dudley/Marshall
04-05 Smith/Dudley/Marshall/Williams
05-06 Smith/Dudley/Marshall/Williams/Rice
06-07 Dudley/Marshall/Williams/Rice
07-08 Rice
08-09 Rice/Trapani/Sanders

And this leaves out Agbai (who was an 11ppg, 6 rpg guy for 3 of those seasons) and Hinnant, as well as many contributing role players such as Singletary, Bryant, Watson.

[Eagledom]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Leave it to the Juice to ignore the huge impact of a strong supporting cast who not only knows their role but plays it and well. FAIL!

Funny, I never used that adjective. Nice effort.

I didn't attribute the "strong" to you bozo. The supporting casts were strong and you refuse to give credit to Al for putting together teams with role players who knew and played their roles well. Oh, I forgot, 9 guys on a roster can average 20 ppg and pull down 13 boards too.

Al or someone on his staff definitely did a better job 7-10 years ago. The last 6 years of recruiting have been complete garbage and have put this program in the position its in today. Al either had someone on his staff that did a better job identifying talent back then or he has gotten lazy. Either way, he is not getting the job done on the recruiting front or the coaching front.

[Eagledom]

Past seasons: Al was saved by essentially 3 recruits and a bunch of support players. Even then, when he had his most talent he fell flat on his face in the post season. The fact that Smith, Dudley, and Bell came to BC over Al's 14 year tenure does not make him a good recruiter.

Oh, look what snuck it's way in here!

he completely ignored the fact that Bell and Sidney played together for two years, Bell and Smith two years, Dudley and Smith two years, Dudley, Smith and Williams one year, Dudley, Williams and Rice one year

I know. Humor takes many forms, but Domdom trying to change his argument without anyone noticing holds a special place in my heart. "AL WAS SAVED BY 3 RECRUITS ONLY (it's days later but oh by the way, he had a bunch of other quality role players who contributed a lot as well. sorry.). Signed, Flip-flops."

Not changing the argument at all. "A bunch of support players" was not a compliment.

Yes, because all teams should have three players get drafted by the NBA ... er, wait a minute.

Dudley and Smith were two of them, dope. You might want to think twice before using NBA talent as evidence that Al has recruited well. That might backfire a bit. Oops, it just did.

Fact is, since 2001, BC has had at least 2, and often 3, and once 5, very good college basketball players at the same time in most seasons. 7 of 9, to be exact.

This is complete bullshit.

00-01 Bell/Sidney
01-02 Bell/Sidney
02-03 Bell/Sidney/Smith
03-04 Smith/Dudley/Marshall
04-05 Smith/Dudley/Marshall/Williams
05-06 Smith/Dudley/Marshall/Williams/Rice
06-07 Dudley/Marshall/Williams/Rice
07-08 Rice
08-09 Rice/Trapani/Sanders

And this leaves out Agbai (who was an 11ppg, 6 rpg guy for 3 of those seasons) and Hinnant, as well as many contributing role players such as Singletary, Bryant, Watson.

I already acknowledged Bell, Smith, and Dudley. Like I said, they carried BC for 7-8 years. Sidney, Marshall, Trapani, and Sanders are a huge stretch.