The Tipping Point

[angryty]

After the Maine fiasco, I am now firmly in the camp of basketball wah-wahs. This is not to say that I am embrace the unvarnished racism of EagleOJ, but simply because all coaches come with expiration dates and Al has clearly reached his. Make no mistake, this isn't a Jortsy O'Jortsien situation. The problems with the football program Jortsy inherited and the so-called gambling scandal were so overblown that it is laughable. Jortsy inherited a program that had some decent talent and a murderous schedule. Over the course of a decade, he marginally improved the talent and severely dumbed down the schedule. There was very little appreciable increase in the coaching skills of Henning's staff to O'Brien's staff. The result was a series of very mediocre bowl appearances and the infamous bowl-win streak.

In contrast, the program that Al inherited from the worst person on Earth (a man so awful that our blessed Lord killed his wife and gave him throat cancer as retribution) was an absolute shit-show. Because of Joby's terror campaign against a school that stuck by him as he was running a national power (under Dr. Tom and Gary W) straight into the ground and allowed him the time to do nothing more than bring the program almost back to where he found it, there was nothing in the cupboard and nothing on the horizon and a complete and total sense of hopelessness after Joby finished leveling his blood libels. Al didn't complain and a few years later had pulled off a resurrection that would have impressed the Baby Jesus himself. In contrast to Jortsy, Al won conference titles and, when we moved to the ACC, has kept us in the upper echelon of the best basketball conference in the country.

With that said, here are a few undeniable facts about Al: (1) He is a terrible game coach. I have wracked my brain trying to think of one example of Al out coaching someone and can't come up with anything. I can't think of a game we stole on guile during his entire tenure; (2) Al does not develop talent. Now don't get me wrong, Al is great at identifying talent that others overlook, but he does nothing to make that talent better when it gets here. Bell, Dudley, Cookie Monster were all stars when they got here. Bell regressed, Dudley and Cookie got marginally better more a product of the physical aging process than new wrinkles in their game. And then there was *** *******, who arrived on campus with lottery pick athleticism and a 10 cent brain and only developed some additional skills when he was at the John Lucas boot camp. Take a look at Ty Rice who actually regressed from his first year to his last. Take a look at Nasty Nate, Captain Oates or Southern, who never developed anything other than what they were when they arrived on campus. Nate was a 7 footer with no low post skills who shot threes and gave five hard fouls a game. He left as he arrived. Oates was a panicky, soft, big man who was more comfortable fifteen feet away from the basket. He left the way he arrived. And Southern arrived as a heralded big man recruit and now looks like he would have a hard time cracking the starting five on a lot of MAAC teams. And then there is Trapani. Joe Trapani can play the game of basketball. He is not in the class of Bell, Dudley or Cookie Monster and he lacks *** ******* physical gifts, but he was shaping up to be an excellent college basketball player. Now he looks like the seventh man at Niagara. (3) Al's teams do not play well down the stretch of pressure cooker games. There are too many exhibits here to list, but last year against Duke, Nova and Georgetown all come to mind and they are a sliver of games in which one of Al's teams have come apart in the last minute of the game. When it happens to the same players repeatedly you can put the blame on those players, but when it happens across the years to a variety of players it is entirely on the coach.

So what to do? Al isn't getting fired this year and nor should he be. But the bitching has to start now so that if it continues next year, it is easier to make the case that he needs to go. And for all of you assholes, who for some reason don't think BC can do better, ask yourselves why Villanova, Georgetown or Gonzaga can be perennial powers despite suffering from every limitation that plagues BC and in the case of Nova and Gonzaga, even more limitations than we face. It is exponentially easier to build a basketball power than it is to build a football power. Why do you hate your alma mater so much that you don't want it to get to the next level.

[eepstein0]

Al Skinner actually worked John Beline in the Michigan game. Skinner was fucking brilliant for a majority of that game forcing Michigan out of their 1-3-1 zone and abusing that little 3/4 trap they threw out. The SC game was more about the players just being ready to go (switching Elmore onto Downey was very smart) but Skinner abused Beline, which makes me believe the ability is there to be a good in-game coach. We just don't see it consistently enough.

[BCEagle74]

Great post.

I guess from the length and the content, we had the same thoughts tonight and were typing at the same time.

Wow, one of us must be a genius ---and I know It ain't me so that is sad.

I posted the recruits that Gonzaga, Villanova nd Georgetown got 3 years ago and the emphasis was on the big men and BC got no one. I put lazy Al on recruiting probation.

I can't stand one more year of Al. Actually one more minute.

Does anyone know when his contract runs out?

We need to consolidate these threads.

Great post Ty.

[angryty]

That is a fair point on Beline, but I think that is obviated by being repeatedly outcoached by Tommy Amaker--which is like losing tic-tac-toe to a chicken.

[RyanBC]

After the Maine fiasco, I am now firmly in the camp of basketball wah-wahs. This is not to say that I am embrace the unvarnished racism of EagleOJ, but simply because all coaches come with expiration dates and Al has clearly reached his. Make no mistake, this isn't a Jortsy O'Jortsien situation. The problems with the football program Jortsy inherited and the so-called gambling scandal were so overblown that it is laughable. Jortsy inherited a program that had some decent talent and a murderous schedule. Over the course of a decade, he marginally improved the talent and severely dumbed down the schedule. There was very little appreciable increase in the coaching skills of Henning's staff to O'Brien's staff. The result was a series of very mediocre bowl appearances and the infamous bowl-win streak.

In contrast, the program that Al inherited from the worst person on Earth (a man so awful that our blessed Lord killed his wife and gave him throat cancer as retribution) was an absolute shit-show. Because of Joby's terror campaign against a school that stuck by him as he was running a national power (under Dr. Tom and Gary W) straight into the ground and allowed him the time to do nothing more than bring the program almost back to where he found it, there was nothing in the cupboard and nothing on the horizon and a complete and total sense of hopelessness after Joby finished leveling his blood libels. Al didn't complain and a few years later had pulled off a resurrection that would have impressed the Baby Jesus himself. In contrast to Jortsy, Al won conference titles and, when we moved to the ACC, has kept us in the upper echelon of the best basketball conference in the country.

With that said, here are a few undeniable facts about Al: (1) He is a terrible game coach. I have wracked my brain trying to think of one example of Al out coaching someone and can't come up with anything. I can't think of a game we stole on guile during his entire tenure; (2) Al does not develop talent. Now don't get me wrong, Al is great at identifying talent that others overlook, but he does nothing to make that talent better when it gets here. Bell, Dudley, Cookie Monster were all stars when they got here. Bell regressed, Dudley and Cookie got marginally better more a product of the physical aging process than new wrinkles in their game. And then there was *** *******, who arrived on campus with lottery pick athleticism and a 10 cent brain and only developed some additional skills when he was at the John Lucas boot camp. Take a look at Ty Rice who actually regressed from his first year to his last. Take a look at Nasty Nate, Captain Oates or Southern, who never developed anything other than what they were when they arrived on campus. Nate was a 7 footer with no low post skills who shot threes and gave five hard fouls a game. He left as he arrived. Oates was a panicky, soft, big man who was more comfortable fifteen feet away from the basket. He left the way he arrived. And Southern arrived as a heralded big man recruit and now looks like he would have a hard time cracking the starting five on a lot of MAAC teams. And then there is Trapani. Joe Trapani can play the game of basketball. He is not in the class of Bell, Dudley or Cookie Monster and he lacks *** ******* physical gifts, but he was shaping up to be an excellent college basketball player. Now he looks like the seventh man at Niagara. (3) Al's teams do not play well down the stretch of pressure cooker games. There are too many exhibits here to list, but last year against Duke, Nova and Georgetown all come to mind and they are a sliver of games in which one of Al's teams have come apart in the last minute of the game. When it happens to the same players repeatedly you can put the blame on those players, but when it happens across the years to a variety of players it is entirely on the coach.

So what to do? Al isn't getting fired this year and nor should he be. But the bitching has to start now so that if it continues next year, it is easier to make the case that he needs to go. And for all of you assholes, who for some reason don't think BC can do better, ask yourselves why Villanova, Georgetown or Gonzaga can be perennial powers despite suffering from every limitation that plagues BC and in the case of Nova and Gonzaga, even more limitations than we face. It is exponentially easier to build a basketball power than it is to build a football power. Why do you hate your alma mater so much that you don't want it to get to the next level.

Bell improved from Frosh to Junior year. He regressed from Junior to Senior year because he put NBA pressure on himself and he didn't shoot as well at times.

Trapani is having a bad year.

Rice did not regress, not sure if you remember the frosh Rice that turned the ball over a TON.

I don't know that Al can be blamed for Southern being a hyped recruit who sucks. That happens. Can he even dunk? LOL

I am a Skinner Guy. He has built an NC caliber roster before (obviously not this year) at the Heights. That said, I do not think that your post is an unfair post.

I am fucking pissed. I watched the ghey jumbo tron feed of the Maine game and it ruined my day, nay my weekend. That fucking sucked and is inexcusable. We need better players whether under Al or someone else.

And we got fucked on the Villanova game that was an NC caliber roster.

[RyanBC]

That is a fair point on Beline, but I think that is obviated by being repeatedly outcoached by Tommy Amaker--which is like losing tic-tac-toe to a chicken.

Well I have seen some chickens that play a mean fucking tic tac toe.

[Reverend Mike]

Al is a great conservationist. Think of how many timeouts he has banked of the years. That speeds up the game which means less electricity consumed by television stations, viewers, the lights in Conte, etc. Greenpeace should give him a special badge or a sash or something.

And think about all the dry-erase ink he conserved by not drawing up any inbounds plays. Do you know what that stuff does to the environment?

[BCEagles25]

That is a fair point on Beline, but I think that is obviated by being repeatedly outcoached by Tommy Amaker--which is like losing tic-tac-toe to a chicken.

Well I have seen some chickens that play a mean fucking tic tac toe.

How long you been holdin that one in?

[BCEagle74]

Al is a great conservationist. Think of how many timeouts he has banked of the years. That speeds up the game which means less electricity consumed by television stations, viewers, the lights in Conte, etc. Greenpeace should give him a special badge or a sash or something.

And think about all the dry-erase ink he conserved by not drawing up any inbounds plays. Do you know what that stuff does to the environment?

Triple extra secret probation for you in the electrical shed.

[branchinator]

I give Skinner next year with basically the same team + the (relatively) promising frosh. Make the tournament and he stays. Don't and it's sayonara.

[pick6pedro]

I give Skinner next year with basically the same team + the (relatively) promising frosh. Make the tournament and he stays. Don't and it's sayonara.

It's going to have to go beyond that for me. Making the tourney is not optional. But it won't be the only thing that I need in order to be convinced he should stay. I need to see adjustments, improvement, and a better overall mentality from this team and/or next year's team to feel comfortable with him remaining at the helm. It would take a helluva lot, but technically he could still win the right to keep his job this season.

If I see a tourney berth next year, it depends a lot upon how they got there, and what Al has done in the process. Just a tourney team is not enough for me to be satisfied. Too many other factors to weigh.

[commavegarage]

I give Skinner next year with basically the same team + the (relatively) promising frosh. Make the tournament and he stays. Don't and it's sayonara.

The tournament isn't enough. He has to make the second weekend next year before I even consider keeping him.

[Eagledom]

The single biggest problem with Al is letting the players get away with a lack of effort. If you believe that we have more talent than St Joes, URI, Harvard, and Maine, then there is no excuse for losing all 4 of those games. Teams have off nights - it happens. So I can excuse one or two bad losses. But after one or two TERRIBLE losses, Al should have been all over these guys asses and not allowed them to perform like they did against Harvard and Maine. Its all too clear that the players have not learned from their mistakes, feel they can take nights off, and have no sense of urgency to right the ship. That is Al's fault - and I think its because he feels the EXACT same way.

[Laughing.Jackal]

Ty:

I think you raise some very valid points about Al and the future of the program. I have always defended Al but these losses have given me great pause.

Two quick points:

1) I believe it is far more difficult to build a hoops program than a football program. You can miss on FB recruits because you take so many guys in. With hoops, the margin for error is slim. You miss on 1 or 2 kids and you are screwed.

2) I am starting to think that this team is not very talented. Sanders and Raji rare athletes--not hoopsters. Jackson is a player but do you see that many more players on this squad?

[Eagledom]

Ty:

I think you raise some very valid points about Al and the future of the program. I have always defended Al but these losses have given me great pause.

Two quick points:

1) I believe it is far more difficult to build a hoops program than a football program. You can miss on FB recruits because you take so many guys in. With hoops, the margin for error is slim. You miss on 1 or 2 kids and you are screwed.

2) I am starting to think that this team is not very talented. Sanders and Raji rare athletes--not hoopsters. Jackson is a player but do you see that many more players on this squad?

This team is not very talented. But its a hell of a lot more talented than the teams we have lost to. Raji is a grinder and a role player. Jackson has a lot of talent but a long way to go. Sanders is a great athlete, but not a great basketball player and certainly not a leader. Biko is an average PG and Trapani should be a 3rd option. Southern is a plodding foul machine.

[auggiebc]

.....all coaches come with expiration dates and Al has clearly reached his. .

exactly. all coaches reach a point where it is simply just time to move on. we see this in every sport at every level. It is time for Al to move on. I wish him well. I've always admired and respected him. But it's time to move on. You cannot run an ACC program full of veteran players and lose at home to URI, Maine, and Harvard in the same month. At the very least, these losses are red flags and warning signs that should not be ignored.

[twballgame9]

After the Maine fiasco, I am now firmly in the camp of basketball wah-wahs. This is not to say that I am embrace the unvarnished racism of EagleOJ, but simply because all coaches come with expiration dates and Al has clearly reached his. Make no mistake, this isn't a Jortsy O'Jortsien situation. The problems with the football program Jortsy inherited and the so-called gambling scandal were so overblown that it is laughable. Jortsy inherited a program that had some decent talent and a murderous schedule. Over the course of a decade, he marginally improved the talent and severely dumbed down the schedule. There was very little appreciable increase in the coaching skills of Henning's staff to O'Brien's staff. The result was a series of very mediocre bowl appearances and the infamous bowl-win streak.

In contrast, the program that Al inherited from the worst person on Earth (a man so awful that our blessed Lord killed his wife and gave him throat cancer as retribution) was an absolute shit-show. Because of Joby's terror campaign against a school that stuck by him as he was running a national power (under Dr. Tom and Gary W) straight into the ground and allowed him the time to do nothing more than bring the program almost back to where he found it, there was nothing in the cupboard and nothing on the horizon and a complete and total sense of hopelessness after Joby finished leveling his blood libels. Al didn't complain and a few years later had pulled off a resurrection that would have impressed the Baby Jesus himself. In contrast to Jortsy, Al won conference titles and, when we moved to the ACC, has kept us in the upper echelon of the best basketball conference in the country.

With that said, here are a few undeniable facts about Al: (1) He is a terrible game coach. I have wracked my brain trying to think of one example of Al out coaching someone and can't come up with anything. I can't think of a game we stole on guile during his entire tenure; (2) Al does not develop talent. Now don't get me wrong, Al is great at identifying talent that others overlook, but he does nothing to make that talent better when it gets here. Bell, Dudley, Cookie Monster were all stars when they got here. Bell regressed, Dudley and Cookie got marginally better more a product of the physical aging process than new wrinkles in their game. And then there was *** *******, who arrived on campus with lottery pick athleticism and a 10 cent brain and only developed some additional skills when he was at the John Lucas boot camp. Take a look at Ty Rice who actually regressed from his first year to his last. Take a look at Nasty Nate, Captain Oates or Southern, who never developed anything other than what they were when they arrived on campus. Nate was a 7 footer with no low post skills who shot threes and gave five hard fouls a game. He left as he arrived. Oates was a panicky, soft, big man who was more comfortable fifteen feet away from the basket. He left the way he arrived. And Southern arrived as a heralded big man recruit and now looks like he would have a hard time cracking the starting five on a lot of MAAC teams. And then there is Trapani. Joe Trapani can play the game of basketball. He is not in the class of Bell, Dudley or Cookie Monster and he lacks *** ******* physical gifts, but he was shaping up to be an excellent college basketball player. Now he looks like the seventh man at Niagara. (3) Al's teams do not play well down the stretch of pressure cooker games. There are too many exhibits here to list, but last year against Duke, Nova and Georgetown all come to mind and they are a sliver of games in which one of Al's teams have come apart in the last minute of the game. When it happens to the same players repeatedly you can put the blame on those players, but when it happens across the years to a variety of players it is entirely on the coach.

So what to do? Al isn't getting fired this year and nor should he be. But the bitching has to start now so that if it continues next year, it is easier to make the case that he needs to go. And for all of you assholes, who for some reason don't think BC can do better, ask yourselves why Villanova, Georgetown or Gonzaga can be perennial powers despite suffering from every limitation that plagues BC and in the case of Nova and Gonzaga, even more limitations than we face. It is exponentially easier to build a basketball power than it is to build a football power. Why do you hate your alma mater so much that you don't want it to get to the next level.

I actually agree with all of this. Which is sad, since the knee jerkers don't want to discuss the legitimate criticisms of Al.

I have always said that Al should hire an old school hoop guy to be his associate head coach. Somebody like Blaney, who is the brains behind the UConn operation, and covers for the drunk. Boeheim has a similar guy, whose name escapes me. Al is ill served by having 2-3 raw young coaches on his staff and no hoops strategy guy to replace the gaping hole created by the departure of Coen.

EDIT: on second reading, I disagree that it is easier to build a basketball power. It is easier to build a program, but not a power. Less players means that small schools like Siena can get good players in hoop. In football, those guys ride the bench at big programs. On the other hand, less players mean one bad recruiting class could tank a program. So it is easier to have a good season in hoop because it only takes one or two great players (Davidson), but it is hard to sustain because there are a ton more good teams and it doesn't take much to slip up.

Best way to say it is that even in a bad year with a bad team, there is little chance that a school in the top 8 conferences will lose to anyone else in football.

[Eagledom]

After the Maine fiasco, I am now firmly in the camp of basketball wah-wahs. This is not to say that I am embrace the unvarnished racism of EagleOJ, but simply because all coaches come with expiration dates and Al has clearly reached his. Make no mistake, this isn't a Jortsy O'Jortsien situation. The problems with the football program Jortsy inherited and the so-called gambling scandal were so overblown that it is laughable. Jortsy inherited a program that had some decent talent and a murderous schedule. Over the course of a decade, he marginally improved the talent and severely dumbed down the schedule. There was very little appreciable increase in the coaching skills of Henning's staff to O'Brien's staff. The result was a series of very mediocre bowl appearances and the infamous bowl-win streak.

In contrast, the program that Al inherited from the worst person on Earth (a man so awful that our blessed Lord killed his wife and gave him throat cancer as retribution) was an absolute shit-show. Because of Joby's terror campaign against a school that stuck by him as he was running a national power (under Dr. Tom and Gary W) straight into the ground and allowed him the time to do nothing more than bring the program almost back to where he found it, there was nothing in the cupboard and nothing on the horizon and a complete and total sense of hopelessness after Joby finished leveling his blood libels. Al didn't complain and a few years later had pulled off a resurrection that would have impressed the Baby Jesus himself. In contrast to Jortsy, Al won conference titles and, when we moved to the ACC, has kept us in the upper echelon of the best basketball conference in the country.

With that said, here are a few undeniable facts about Al: (1) He is a terrible game coach. I have wracked my brain trying to think of one example of Al out coaching someone and can't come up with anything. I can't think of a game we stole on guile during his entire tenure; (2) Al does not develop talent. Now don't get me wrong, Al is great at identifying talent that others overlook, but he does nothing to make that talent better when it gets here. Bell, Dudley, Cookie Monster were all stars when they got here. Bell regressed, Dudley and Cookie got marginally better more a product of the physical aging process than new wrinkles in their game. And then there was *** *******, who arrived on campus with lottery pick athleticism and a 10 cent brain and only developed some additional skills when he was at the John Lucas boot camp. Take a look at Ty Rice who actually regressed from his first year to his last. Take a look at Nasty Nate, Captain Oates or Southern, who never developed anything other than what they were when they arrived on campus. Nate was a 7 footer with no low post skills who shot threes and gave five hard fouls a game. He left as he arrived. Oates was a panicky, soft, big man who was more comfortable fifteen feet away from the basket. He left the way he arrived. And Southern arrived as a heralded big man recruit and now looks like he would have a hard time cracking the starting five on a lot of MAAC teams. And then there is Trapani. Joe Trapani can play the game of basketball. He is not in the class of Bell, Dudley or Cookie Monster and he lacks *** ******* physical gifts, but he was shaping up to be an excellent college basketball player. Now he looks like the seventh man at Niagara. (3) Al's teams do not play well down the stretch of pressure cooker games. There are too many exhibits here to list, but last year against Duke, Nova and Georgetown all come to mind and they are a sliver of games in which one of Al's teams have come apart in the last minute of the game. When it happens to the same players repeatedly you can put the blame on those players, but when it happens across the years to a variety of players it is entirely on the coach.

So what to do? Al isn't getting fired this year and nor should he be. But the bitching has to start now so that if it continues next year, it is easier to make the case that he needs to go. And for all of you assholes, who for some reason don't think BC can do better, ask yourselves why Villanova, Georgetown or Gonzaga can be perennial powers despite suffering from every limitation that plagues BC and in the case of Nova and Gonzaga, even more limitations than we face. It is exponentially easier to build a basketball power than it is to build a football power. Why do you hate your alma mater so much that you don't want it to get to the next level.

I actually agree with all of this. Which is sad, since the knee jerkers don't want to discuss the legitimate criticisms of Al.

I have always said that Al should hire an old school hoop guy to be his associate head coach. Somebody like Blaney, who is the brains behind the UConn operation, and covers for the drunk. Boeheim has a similar guy, whose name escapes me. Al is ill served by having 2-3 raw young coaches on his staff and no hoops strategy guy to replace the gaping hole created by the departure of Coen.

EDIT: on second reading, I disagree that it is easier to build a basketball power. It is easier to build a program, but not a power. Less players means that small schools like Siena can get good players in hoop. In football, those guys ride the bench at big programs. On the other hand, less players mean one bad recruiting class could tank a program. So it is easier to have a good season in hoop because it only takes one or two great players (Davidson), but it is hard to sustain because there are a ton more good teams and it doesn't take much to slip up.

Best way to say it is that even in a bad year with a bad team, there is little chance that a school in the top 8 conferences will lose to anyone else in football.

I have been saying this about his in-game coaching, player development, and post-season performance for a long time, but you will not agree when I say it because you hate when I am right. In fact, just last night I posted a detailed answer to the question you were begging me to answer and you ignored my response because you saw that I was dead-on. Everyone is now jumping on my bandwagon. Welcome aboard.

[twballgame9]

I have said that Al is a bad in-game coach for 10 years. I only said his success is nonetheless undeniable, and that people that think he should be fired or judge him based on post season performance are retarded. It is you that can only think in black and white, pun intended.

[BC '00]

Boeheim has a similar guy, whose name escapes me.

Bernie Fine.

I agree with a lot of what Ty says. We should be better, and the only person to blame is Al. I think that he has done good things overall for BC Hoops, but we've reached the expiration date. It's too bad, really.

On the easier to build hoops than football: it is MUCH easier to build hoops, but only in terms of being able to overcome a school's limitations. In football, it's much harder to overcome being a small school, or being in a bad recruiting area, or having bad weather, or small fanbases, etc than in hoops, because you need to convince less kids in hoops. Look at how well Syracuse has been recruiting lately for basketball, and then for football.

[pick6pedro]

That is a fair point on Beline, but I think that is obviated by being repeatedly outcoached by Tommy Amaker--which is like losing tic-tac-toe to a chicken.

Well I have seen some chickens that play a mean fucking tic tac toe.

[Eagledom]

I have said that Al is a bad in-game coach for 10 years. I only said his success is nonetheless undeniable, and that people that think he should be fired or judge him based on post season performance are retarded. It is you that can only think in black and white, pun intended.

Poor in game coach. Check
Average recruiter. Check
Questionable ability to develop talent. Check
Poor NCAA performance. Check

Yet, you want him to stick around. Your standards are even lower than I thought.

[BCEagles25]

[eepstein0]

I have said that Al is a bad in-game coach for 10 years. I only said his success is nonetheless undeniable, and that people that think he should be fired or judge him based on post season performance are retarded. It is you that can only think in black and white, pun intended.

Poor in game coach. Check
Average recruiter. Check
Questionable ability to develop talent. Check
Poor NCAA performance. Check

Yet, you want him to stick around. Your standards are even lower than I thought.

He's not an average recruiter (well above average) and we've had some pretty good players leave this school and go to the NBA so your talent development claim is also a bit dubious. The in-game coaching and post-season success is correct.

[EaglesTalon]

BC has more wins than every other team in the ACC except Duke and UNC since the ACC expanded to 12 teams.

A poor coach would need great recruits to do that.
or
An average recruiter would need to be a good coach to do to that.

A poor coach with average recruits would not have the third most number of wins in one of the best conferences in the country over the past four years. It just does not make sense.

[eepstein0]

BC has more wins than every other team in the ACC except Duke and UNC since the ACC expanded to 12 teams.

A poor coach would need great recruits to do that.
or
A average recruiter would need to be a great coach to do to that.

A poor coach with average recruits would not have the third most number of wins in one of the best conferences in the country over the past four years. It just does not make sense.

You're absolutely right. The in-game coaching is miserable like 80% of the time (save 1st half of the SC game, the entire Michigan game) this season. The in-game coaching leads to our failures in the NCAA Tournament. Although true, anyone who can work John Beline (considered some kind of basketball genius by those around NCAA Basketball) for 40 minutes in Ann Arbor obviously has the ability to be a good in-game coach.

[Eagledom]

I have said that Al is a bad in-game coach for 10 years. I only said his success is nonetheless undeniable, and that people that think he should be fired or judge him based on post season performance are retarded. It is you that can only think in black and white, pun intended.

Poor in game coach. Check
Average recruiter. Check
Questionable ability to develop talent. Check
Poor NCAA performance. Check

Yet, you want him to stick around. Your standards are even lower than I thought.

He's not an average recruiter (well above average) and we've had some pretty good players leave this school and go to the NBA so your talent development claim is also a bit dubious. The in-game coaching and post-season success is correct.

you are looking at BC in isolation...we HAVE to recruit a few players here and there that will go to the NBA to survive in the ACC. How many players do we have in the NBA compared to other ACC schools? Al has managed to steal a few good players that weren't very highly recruited in Troy Bell, Craig Smith, and Jared Dudley - that does not make him a "very good" recruiter. We have no depth because he can't recruit....we have to rely on having a good team once every 3 or 4 years because we hope to get more of those types of players that will stick around for 4 years because they have no other option. It is not a formula for continued long-term success. We are seeing the results when that strategy fails the last 3 years.

As far as this stupid "we have the 3rd best record in the ACC" argument...lets look at it another way. In the past 4 years, we have finished 3rd, tied for 3rd (with 3 other teams), 12th, and 6th -- and that is supposed to solidify Al as a great coach? When you factor in that we had out most talented teams EVER in those first 2 years and still only managed to finish 3rd with no post-season success....it sheds different light on that record over the past 4 years.

[ryrob]

I have said that Al is a bad in-game coach for 10 years. I only said his success is nonetheless undeniable, and that people that think he should be fired or judge him based on post season performance are retarded. It is you that can only think in black and white, pun intended.

Poor in game coach. Check
Average recruiter. Check
Questionable ability to develop talent. Check
Poor NCAA performance. Check

Yet, you want him to stick around. Your standards are even lower than I thought.

He's not an average recruiter (well above average) and we've had some pretty good players leave this school and go to the NBA so your talent development claim is also a bit dubious. The in-game coaching and post-season success is correct.

Every ACC school SHOULD put players in the NBA. Outside of Dudley (very solid bench player) and Smith (decent bench player), BC hasn't put any legitimate players in the NBA for years. This is totally unacceptable for an allegedly successful ACC school, and Al is at the epicenter of that in terms of recruiting.

[eepstein0]

This is fun. I'm taking fire from both directions here.

AL has his good traits and bad traits that we've covered ad naseum. He's not as bad as EagleDom makes you think but I haven't quite come around to TWB's thinking yet either. Again, let's go beat Clemson this Saturday and have good Skinner show up to get to 2-0 in ACC play!

[BCFAN94]

Al is awesome, wait til next year. He is a very sharp dresser and hasn't had any felony arrests on the team in three years.