2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:55 pm

i hope eddy is trying to sign wojo as an assistant since so many of you want to marry the floor slapper so badly
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby 2001Eagle on Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:15 pm

Moser’s kids really like their school on Chicago’s leafy north shore.


But Loyola will need to pony up some more dough. Moser makes $1mm and it’s tough to see him passing up another 1, 2, or 3 million a year.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:41 pm

Logitano wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:
HJS wrote:
BostonCollege1 wrote:
HJS wrote:Yeah... we bullet-dodged a bunch of guys. Gates, Wes Miller, Shaka, Schmidt, Wojo, Richard, throw-in Cooley and Willard... doesn’t make Grant look any better. But, it shows the craven patheticness of our program. That said, not being allowed to even consider Porter Moser may have been a mistake.


Why would Porter Moser leave what he has now for BC?

Money. Which is why he’ll leave for Marquette.


Moser won't go to Marquette.


This. :ace


Yep. Fact is, Loyola can pay him more than Marquette at this point. I know the Loyola AD, Steve Watson--great guy, went to Loyola from Saint Bonnies. He keeps in regular contact with a lot of Bonnie boosters and he told many of them pretty much from the moment he got there was that there was an enormous amount of unfulfilled potential at Loyola with respect to fundraising and he has been singularly focused on driving that train and has apparently had an enormous amount of success (no doubt helped by the Final Four a couple of years ago). Marquette's operating budget is considerably higher than Loyola's ($10 million vs $4.6 million), but Marquette's been bleeding money badly for the last five years (an annual loss of over $5 million before you get to the unreleased loss number for 2020, which is expected to be $10 million--a huge chunk of that number going solely to pay for the costs associated with playing at Fiserv Forum, which they have taken an enormous bath on as a result of low attendance pre-covid and the cratering of attendance during the pandemic. While Marquette has made up the operating losses in past years by dipping into the schools general fund and hitting up certain "whale" boosters, fundraising has suffered during Wojo's mediocre run and there is a general feeling that the athletic department is going to have to pony up some massive cuts. While Marquette will always spend on basketball and I the only cuts basketball will endure will be cosmetic so the shitty school administration can say that there is belt tightening across the board, they aren't going to be able to shoot the moon with respect to salary for a new coach. Wojo made $1.7 million between salary and untaxed benefits. I doubt they will be able to go above that given the state of the Athletic Department.

In contrast, Loyola, which is actually a bigger school, in a bigger city, with more "whale" alumni donors than Marquette (and after decades of neglect, the school's endowment is approaching a billion and should catch up with Marquette in that regard within five years) is already paying Moser $1.3 million in salary and untaxed benefits. The Athletic Department has been operating at a surplus since 2016 even if you take out the Final Four windfall, which added a significant amount to the school's general fund. In sum, I am fairly certain that Loyola can match anything Marquette can offer--especially since Watson has a history of spending aggressively to reward coaching production. On top of that, there is already a media narrative of Loyola becoming the Gonzaga of the Midwest. Money usually follows that sort of hype--and Loyola has the added benefit of 25 years of DePaul imploding as a basketball program leaving the casual Chicago fan and the money that attaches to it available to exploit in such a scenario.

Now it may be that some baby rapist may come along and offer Moser $3 million plus. If that is the case, Loyola ain't matching that, but if Loyola makes a second Final Four and Moser then leaves, Loyola isn't going to have any trouble finding a well-regarded up and comer replacement.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby ATLeagle on Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:00 pm

The Big East tv deal is really small. All those schools are very dependent on donors, ticket sales and the precious MSG week. Needless to say they have all suffered greatly and that is why I don't think PC or Seton Hall would have been sad if we had taken their coaches. Some in the Pac 12 felt the same way. Would we have been happy spending big on Willard or Bobby Hurley? IDK. I imagine most would prefer that to Grant but I think I like Grant more than most.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Logitano on Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:41 pm

Dick Rosenthal wrote:
Logitano wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:
HJS wrote:
BostonCollege1 wrote:
HJS wrote:Yeah... we bullet-dodged a bunch of guys. Gates, Wes Miller, Shaka, Schmidt, Wojo, Richard, throw-in Cooley and Willard... doesn’t make Grant look any better. But, it shows the craven patheticness of our program. That said, not being allowed to even consider Porter Moser may have been a mistake.


Why would Porter Moser leave what he has now for BC?

Money. Which is why he’ll leave for Marquette.


Moser won't go to Marquette.


This. :ace


Yep. Fact is, Loyola can pay him more than Marquette at this point. I know the Loyola AD, Steve Watson--great guy, went to Loyola from Saint Bonnies. He keeps in regular contact with a lot of Bonnie boosters and he told many of them pretty much from the moment he got there was that there was an enormous amount of unfulfilled potential at Loyola with respect to fundraising and he has been singularly focused on driving that train and has apparently had an enormous amount of success (no doubt helped by the Final Four a couple of years ago). Marquette's operating budget is considerably higher than Loyola's ($10 million vs $4.6 million), but Marquette's been bleeding money badly for the last five years (an annual loss of over $5 million before you get to the unreleased loss number for 2020, which is expected to be $10 million--a huge chunk of that number going solely to pay for the costs associated with playing at Fiserv Forum, which they have taken an enormous bath on as a result of low attendance pre-covid and the cratering of attendance during the pandemic. While Marquette has made up the operating losses in past years by dipping into the schools general fund and hitting up certain "whale" boosters, fundraising has suffered during Wojo's mediocre run and there is a general feeling that the athletic department is going to have to pony up some massive cuts. While Marquette will always spend on basketball and I the only cuts basketball will endure will be cosmetic so the shitty school administration can say that there is belt tightening across the board, they aren't going to be able to shoot the moon with respect to salary for a new coach. Wojo made $1.7 million between salary and untaxed benefits. I doubt they will be able to go above that given the state of the Athletic Department.

In contrast, Loyola, which is actually a bigger school, in a bigger city, with more "whale" alumni donors than Marquette (and after decades of neglect, the school's endowment is approaching a billion and should catch up with Marquette in that regard within five years) is already paying Moser $1.3 million in salary and untaxed benefits. The Athletic Department has been operating at a surplus since 2016 even if you take out the Final Four windfall, which added a significant amount to the school's general fund. In sum, I am fairly certain that Loyola can match anything Marquette can offer--especially since Watson has a history of spending aggressively to reward coaching production. On top of that, there is already a media narrative of Loyola becoming the Gonzaga of the Midwest. Money usually follows that sort of hype--and Loyola has the added benefit of 25 years of DePaul imploding as a basketball program leaving the casual Chicago fan and the money that attaches to it available to exploit in such a scenario.

Now it may be that some baby rapist may come along and offer Moser $3 million plus. If that is the case, Loyola ain't matching that, but if Loyola makes a second Final Four and Moser then leaves, Loyola isn't going to have any trouble finding a well-regarded up and comer replacement.


This. And that is also why Moser was a thanks but no thanks when BC reached out. :ace
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:48 pm

Just to be clear, is HJS predicting Moser to Marquette on his mistaken belief Loyola was not paying him or did he successfully hedge?
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:05 pm

twballgame9 wrote:Just to be clear, is HJS predicting Moser to Marquette on his mistaken belief Loyola was not paying him or did he successfully hedge?

$1mm for a Final Four coach is not paying him. Funny how you think paying better than Albany makes Loyola big time.

I still thinks he jumps if Marquette offers. If folks claim Marquette has no money are true, then I’m wrong. Let’s see if they hire someone from the Colonial or land someone we all think is a better option than Grant.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:27 pm

where is gates of hell going to wind up? are the offers still waiting for them to lose in the tournament?
now in the street there is violence
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and, and i can't blame all on the sun
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby ATLeagle on Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:46 pm

TobaccoRoadEagle wrote:where is gates of hell going to wind up? are the offers still waiting for them to lose in the tournament?


Ask Murt. He is plugged into THE source.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:22 pm

ATLeagle wrote:
TobaccoRoadEagle wrote:where is gates of hell going to wind up? are the offers still waiting for them to lose in the tournament?


Ask Murt. He is plugged into THE source.

the man who is never wrong or someone actually at the school?
now in the street there is violence
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:22 pm

TobaccoRoadEagle wrote:where is gates of hell going to wind up? are the offers still waiting for them to lose in the tournament?

I think DePaul would love a Cleveland Steamer if they can come up with enough money to make a Loyola-like offer.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:24 pm

HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Just to be clear, is HJS predicting Moser to Marquette on his mistaken belief Loyola was not paying him or did he successfully hedge?

$1mm for a Final Four coach is not paying him. Funny how you think paying better than Albany makes Loyola big time.

I still thinks he jumps if Marquette offers. If folks claim Marquette has no money are true, then I’m wrong. Let’s see if they hire someone from the Colonial or land someone we all think is a better option than Grant.


He makes closer to $1.4 and he had his salary more than doubled the last time they thought they would lose him.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:38 pm

twballgame9 wrote:
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Just to be clear, is HJS predicting Moser to Marquette on his mistaken belief Loyola was not paying him or did he successfully hedge?

$1mm for a Final Four coach is not paying him. Funny how you think paying better than Albany makes Loyola big time.

I still thinks he jumps if Marquette offers. If folks claim Marquette has no money are true, then I’m wrong. Let’s see if they hire someone from the Colonial or land someone we all think is a better option than Grant.


He makes closer to $1.4 and he had his salary more than doubled the last time they thought they would lose him.

So you predicting Loyola will pay him north of $3mm if others approach. But, if he leaves or the don’t pay him, then you never cared.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:42 pm

HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Just to be clear, is HJS predicting Moser to Marquette on his mistaken belief Loyola was not paying him or did he successfully hedge?

$1mm for a Final Four coach is not paying him. Funny how you think paying better than Albany makes Loyola big time.

I still thinks he jumps if Marquette offers. If folks claim Marquette has no money are true, then I’m wrong. Let’s see if they hire someone from the Colonial or land someone we all think is a better option than Grant.


He makes closer to $1.4 and he had his salary more than doubled the last time they thought they would lose him.

So you predicting Loyola will pay him north of $3mm if others approach. But, if he leaves or the don’t pay him, then you never cared.


I'm not actually predicting anything Captain Deflection. I just wanted a clarification on both sides of your prediction.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:39 pm

Loyola will go north of $2 million for Moser if suitors come knocking or if he takes them to another FInal Four. If he loses in the next round and no one comes calling, he’s going to get a bump up to $1.7-.8. The thing is, it took Moser about 15 years to figure out how to become a winning basketball coach. He did well at UALR, but that was the most prestigious program in the conference and he never won the conference there. He failed miserably at Illinois State and his first three years at Loyola were very bad. When Watson was hired as the AD, Watson increased recruiting funds and he and Moser had a series of discussions of finding the right kids to fit the program—similar to what he and Schmidt had worked on together at Bonnies—although Moser’s model was based on Butler. The school shelled out a lot of money by Loyola’s standards at the time to showcase what was Moser’s best team to date in 2015 in the CBI, which they won. While that roster turned over that year and there were two pretty mediocre seasons that followed, the team was young and got slightly better each year before the break out year in 2018. That roster largely turned over but the incoming recruiting was drastically improved and a young team went to the NIT the next year. Last year’s team finished 2nd in the MVC and would likely have been a 11 or 12 seed if the NCAAs had been played. This team is obviously very good, and while it’s heart and sole are a Crutwig and Williamson (seniors), the players with the most upside on the roster is his outstanding sophomore class, with a very good freshman class as well.

The point is, the blueprint is already there. If Moser leaves they won’t have to recreate the wheel and Moser is not an exceptional x and o’s guy. Sometimes the infrastructure around a coach is more important than who is coaching (see VCU).
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby BC923 on Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:03 am

Agree with Dick on how much support Moser has gotten. He is an interesting guy as was mentioned. Looked like a failure early in his career. And that’s part of what makes hiring challenging. You have to get someone who is going to be able to execute the larger institutional plan (this is also why I think pretty much anyone is doomed to fail at BC until we figure out what the vision is). It’s also what went right with the Hafley hire. Maybe Grant will actually get a budget or showcase some evidence of a larger plan with his assistant hires—he seemed attuned to the importance and sounded optimistic, but I’m not holding my breath.

I agree Moser is not necessarily a world beating x and o guy but he does end up looking that way, and I think in large part it’s because he’s got a team full of multi year players which is something that really only happens at mid majors anymore. I will say the first half defensive plan that they played against Illinois was almost flawless. But if Moser is smart he might realize that he’s got a good thing going and could try to become a Mark Few and stick around because he’s got the infrastructure to win in the way that he is suited for. Im not sure he can recruit or coach through a rapidly turning over roster well enough to be a guaranteed success at a high major. But there’s rarely a candidate who is lock to do well at any vacancy.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:44 pm

College of Charleston did a damn good job replacing Eddy... assuming Pat Kelsey actually shows up.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:47 pm

HJS wrote:College of Charleston did a damn good job replacing Eddy... assuming Pat Kelsey actually shows up.


Was he associate head coach at high paying Marquette?
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby ATLeagle on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 am

Indiana easily made the strangest hire of the season.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:47 am

Optically, this is the hire that is most out of step...
Image
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby durkcal on Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am

College of Charleston easily made the best out of this whole deal. They have to be over the moon. :chewbanka :cheer :elephant :pepper2 :banana

Maybe CoC planted someone with the consultant firm we hired?
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby durkcal on Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:09 pm

ATLeagle wrote:Indiana easily made the strangest hire of the season.


Indiana is now in that same vortex of fear and despair that Nebraska football is in. You just start making choices faster. They can no longer tell which direction is up, but just have this collective panic about their current spot.

If it works, at least initially, then all these P5 $$$ openings are going to start going to NBA guys. Kind of like that weird NBA era post Nowitzki being drafted where every NBA team was drafting a Euro player that ended up sucking.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Onyx Blackman on Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:31 pm

durkcal wrote:If it works, at least initially, then all these P5 $$$ openings are going to start going to NBA guys. Kind of like that weird NBA era post Nowitzki being drafted where every NBA team was drafting a Euro player that ended up sucking.

Or like when Poodle Pete was winning at USC and college teams started hiring guys like Al Groh, Mike Sherman, and the Wannstache.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Corporal Funishment on Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:36 pm

I guess Indiana learned the hard way about the difficulty of luring Brad Stevens' family from Wellesley....the "cleaning the Augean Stables" of hiring a coach
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby BC923 on Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:24 am

UNC job is open
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:35 am

BC923 wrote:UNC job is open

i assume he's sick
now in the street there is violence
and, and a lots of work to be done
no place to hang out our washing
and, and i can't blame all on the sun
good god we gonna rock down to electric avenue
and then we'll take it higher
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby Onyx Blackman on Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:04 pm

Eddy's got them running scared.
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby innocentbystander on Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:17 pm

BC923 wrote:UNC job is open


Maybe they will hire Jim Christian?
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:35 pm

innocentbystander wrote:
BC923 wrote:UNC job is open


Maybe they will hire Jim Christian?

or l.p.l. gates
now in the street there is violence
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good god we gonna rock down to electric avenue
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Re: 2021 Coaching Candidate Thread (this time for reals)

Postby HJS on Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:33 pm

Chris Beard taking over Texas
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