Mohegan Bubble

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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby thebs19 on Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:23 pm

twballgame9 wrote:
Christian sucks. Schmidt is just a guy at a mediocre middling program in a mediocre conference. Not sure what you are arguing.

I thought it was that defense was all about athletic ability. Steph Mitchell is not a very good athlete, but around here I hear he is Marcus Smart reincarnate.


The origin of the discussion that we've spent way too much time on stemmed from a comment that we had NCAAT level talent but just shitty coaching. Its both. The talent sucks. The coaching sucks. This is not some gem of a roster that a better tactician would squeeze a 6 seed out of. Thats all my point.

It moved into defense because I made a comment that its a terrible defensive team among other points about the talent. But the larger point is: this is not a good team. Its not as bad as Donahue's worst, so I guess thats a nice win.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby eepstein0 on Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:23 pm

twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
thebs19 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:I could swear Schmidt was the next Red Auerbach.


He's far better than christian, which has always been the point. This idea that our talent is improving and its just scheme is crazy. Christian can't recruit, at all, and his scheme of course is terrible. I don't think Schmidt is a schematic genius, but he gets equal or better talent to Olean, NY than Christian gets to fucking Boston College.

I just take issue with the implication that this team could compete with a better coach. The issue is way more pervasive than that. Saying the talent is better than Donahue is the absolute lowest of low bars. Steff Mitchell has been one of Jimmy C's recent recruiting wins, and he's a guy that, if this team was remotely competitive in any of his 4 years in the program, probably would've played like 8 minutes a night for some energy.

Yes, Jim Christian being competely non competitive the one time he actually had tournament talent (when Bowman and Robinson manned the backcourt) was a coaching travesty, but thats been the exception, not the rule. This year, we'll be out talented in most of the remaining games, on top of, of course, out-coached.


Christian sucks. Schmidt is just a guy at a mediocre middling program in a mediocre conference. Not sure what you are arguing.

I thought it was that defense was all about athletic ability. Steph Mitchell is not a very good athlete, but around here I hear he is Marcus Smart reincarnate.


Steph tries at defense which is more than I can say for most the squad.


He's a decent college defender. He also does the floppy dive fake hustle bullshit that people mistake for defense.


Agreed but 5 decent defenders would look like UVA compared to what I’ve seen in these first 4 games
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:24 pm

thebs19 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
Christian sucks. Schmidt is just a guy at a mediocre middling program in a mediocre conference. Not sure what you are arguing.

I thought it was that defense was all about athletic ability. Steph Mitchell is not a very good athlete, but around here I hear he is Marcus Smart reincarnate.


The origin of the discussion that we've spent way too much time on stemmed from a comment that we had NCAAT level talent but just shitty coaching. Its both. The talent sucks. The coaching sucks. This is not some gem of a roster that a better tactician would squeeze a 6 seed out of. Thats all my point.

It moved into defense because I made a comment that its a terrible defensive team among other points about the talent. But the larger point is: this is not a good team. Its not as bad as Donahue's worst, so I guess thats a nice win.


The talent is far better than the coaching and it is not remotely close. I can think of a lot of coaches that could get this team to 20 wins.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby eepstein0 on Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:24 pm

thebs19 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
Christian sucks. Schmidt is just a guy at a mediocre middling program in a mediocre conference. Not sure what you are arguing.

I thought it was that defense was all about athletic ability. Steph Mitchell is not a very good athlete, but around here I hear he is Marcus Smart reincarnate.


The origin of the discussion that we've spent way too much time on stemmed from a comment that we had NCAAT level talent but just shitty coaching. Its both. The talent sucks. The coaching sucks. This is not some gem of a roster that a better tactician would squeeze a 6 seed out of. Thats all my point.

It moved into defense because I made a comment that its a terrible defensive team among other points about the talent. But the larger point is: this is not a good team. Its not as bad as Donahue's worst, so I guess thats a nice win.


This is a bubble team with Kevin Williard (or pick your slightly above average coach) at the helm. They score enough points, but if this isn’t the worst defensive team in the country I’d be pretty surprised.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby BCEagles25 on Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:26 pm

thebs19 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
Christian sucks. Schmidt is just a guy at a mediocre middling program in a mediocre conference. Not sure what you are arguing.

I thought it was that defense was all about athletic ability. Steph Mitchell is not a very good athlete, but around here I hear he is Marcus Smart reincarnate.


The origin of the discussion that we've spent way too much time on stemmed from a comment that we had NCAAT level talent but just shitty coaching. Its both. The talent sucks. The coaching sucks. This is not some gem of a roster that a better tactician would squeeze a 6 seed out of. Thats all my point.

It moved into defense because I made a comment that its a terrible defensive team among other points about the talent. But the larger point is: this is not a good team. Its not as bad as Donahue's worst, so I guess thats a nice win.


Here’s why it’s just like Donahue’s worst though: they loaded up on the tough schedule thing and the players lost a couple games early then it fell apart really quickly with a roster most had higher expectations for. I agree that it was worse but those seasons are like cousins
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby eepstein0 on Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:27 pm

This like a 4-18 to 6-16 team. You’re not going to magically play better defense. He’ll get fired, a bunch of this roster will leave and we can restart with a new coach and a facility in the works.

Karnik is a good player.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby eepstein0 on Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:28 pm

BCEagles25 wrote:
thebs19 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
Christian sucks. Schmidt is just a guy at a mediocre middling program in a mediocre conference. Not sure what you are arguing.

I thought it was that defense was all about athletic ability. Steph Mitchell is not a very good athlete, but around here I hear he is Marcus Smart reincarnate.


The origin of the discussion that we've spent way too much time on stemmed from a comment that we had NCAAT level talent but just shitty coaching. Its both. The talent sucks. The coaching sucks. This is not some gem of a roster that a better tactician would squeeze a 6 seed out of. Thats all my point.

It moved into defense because I made a comment that its a terrible defensive team among other points about the talent. But the larger point is: this is not a good team. Its not as bad as Donahue's worst, so I guess thats a nice win.


Here’s why it’s just like Donahue’s worst though: they loaded up on the tough schedule thing and the players lost a couple games early then it fell apart really quickly with a roster most had higher expectations for. I agree that it was worse but those seasons are like cousins


Honestly in this weird season, I’d rather play real teams every night and just find out this team is bad early on.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby ATLeagle on Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:03 am

This is a bubble team roster. The coaching is terrible as it has been for all of JC's run. Even when he wins, it is not because he out schemed people. It was because he had two future NBA guards.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby Shoreagle on Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:34 am

ATLeagle wrote:This is a bubble team roster. The coaching is terrible as it has been for all of JC's run. Even when he wins, it is not because he out schemed people. It was because he had two future NBA guards.

Name me another team who had two guards who played in the NBA and didn't make the tournament. It's really quite amazing.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:20 am

Shoreagle wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:This is a bubble team roster. The coaching is terrible as it has been for all of JC's run. Even when he wins, it is not because he out schemed people. It was because he had two future NBA guards.

Name me another team who had two guards who played in the NBA and didn't make the tournament. It's really quite amazing.


It's this that is the most damning thing about Jimmy Christian. If you have two marginal NBA guards in the modern college game you should going to the Sweet 16. If you have one NBA guard and middling talent and decent coaching you should make the tournament.

I'd also like to announce that I no longer have a Mark Schmidt agenda because even if he was offered the job, he'd no longer take it. He's making enough money now that the bump from BC would not be significant. He's in his mid-50s and can basically be coach for life at Bonnies. He's bringing in good mid-major talent mixed with diamond in the rough good p5 talent every year--hell, the second best player on the best team Penn State has produced in its history is a kid that couldn't crack the top 4 in Schmidt's guard rotation. And contra Teddy, he's got two kids who still have two years of eligibility, one of whom is projected as a mid-1st round pick and the other as a 2nd rounder. The first rounder, Osun Osunniyi, will probably set the A-10 record for blocked shots before he is done, is basically S*** W******* without the mental problems and with a much higher basketball IQ and the 2nd rounder, Kyle Lofton, is a bigger, faster version of Jaylen Adams who is a marginal NBA player. They are both 1st Team A-10 as juniors and Osunniyi is getting some Obie Toppen-type love going into the season. They are likely to make the NCAAs a couple of times over the next 2 or 3 years and they have cemented themselves as a top 4 program in the A-10. Based on his performance over the previous 10 years, In 10 years Schmidt will have somewhere between 500-600 wins, which would likely get him in the HoF in Springfield. And all done at the smallest school in D1 and located in Olean, NY.

It is not contestable at this point that we would be in a better place if Bates had hired Schmidt 7 years ago, but that ship has sailed. I will be revealing my next agenda regarding basketball in the next couple of weeks.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby flyingelvii on Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:32 am

Shoreagle wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:This is a bubble team roster. The coaching is terrible as it has been for all of JC's run. Even when he wins, it is not because he out schemed people. It was because he had two future NBA guards.

Name me another team who had two guards who played in the NBA and didn't make the tournament. It's really quite amazing.

Washington has probably accomplished this recently.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby Corporal Funishment on Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:51 am

ATLeagle wrote:This is a bubble team roster. The coaching is terrible as it has been for all of JC's run. Even when he wins, it is not because he out schemed people. It was because he had two future NBA guards.


How many future NBA guards did he have when he racking up the all-time winningest record in MAC history (in terms of winning percentage)? Who do you think had more future NBA players on the roster last night, Florida or BC?
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby ATLeagle on Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:08 am

Corporal Funishment wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:This is a bubble team roster. The coaching is terrible as it has been for all of JC's run. Even when he wins, it is not because he out schemed people. It was because he had two future NBA guards.


How many future NBA guards did he have when he racking up the all-time winningest record in MAC history (in terms of winning percentage)? Who do you think had more future NBA players on the roster last night, Florida or BC?


Florida had more talent but that's not why they were up 30 for long stretches.

I don't know the ins and out of the MAC but he inherited a winner at Kent St and then was only at Ohio a short time. TCU showed he is not up for the big time. We were just too dumb to ignore the signs.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby Shoreagle on Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:12 am

ATLeagle wrote:
Corporal Funishment wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:This is a bubble team roster. The coaching is terrible as it has been for all of JC's run. Even when he wins, it is not because he out schemed people. It was because he had two future NBA guards.


How many future NBA guards did he have when he racking up the all-time winningest record in MAC history (in terms of winning percentage)? Who do you think had more future NBA players on the roster last night, Florida or BC?


Florida had more talent but that's not why they were up 30 for long stretches.

I don't know the ins and out of the MAC but he inherited a winner at Kent St and then was only at Ohio a short time. TCU showed he is not up for the big time. We were just too dumb to ignore the signs.

It was Bates hiring (and following) the search firm that was the dumbest move.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby BC923 on Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:13 am

I’m not worried about not being able to find a coach who would be both interested and an improvement on Jimmy MAC. This is especially true if the plans for the new facility will be a part of the rollout of a new direction for the program. The dynamic of finding a basketball coach is a lot different than football. You have a lot more options, it’s not just looking at top coordinators or head coaches from a couple g5 conferences. Look at Chris Beard or Steve Pikiell, if you know basketball and have a vision you want to implement you can find the right guy in relative obscurity. Some guys are willing to wait for a better shot, but plenty of coaches want to take the first shot they can get.

I know Kraft is a football guy, but everywhere he’s been has been a basketball school. I’m hoping he’s picked up some knowledge along the way or at least some people in his network who know what they’re talking about. I hope Kraft is able to make some real commitments of improved resources during the interview process like Jarmond was with Hafley, and punch above our weight.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby MF73-Eleazar on Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:03 pm

Depressing to watch this team.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby BCMurt09 on Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:09 pm

BC923 wrote:I’m not worried about not being able to find a coach who would be both interested and an improvement on Jimmy MAC. This is especially true if the plans for the new facility will be a part of the rollout of a new direction for the program. The dynamic of finding a basketball coach is a lot different than football. You have a lot more options, it’s not just looking at top coordinators or head coaches from a couple g5 conferences. Look at Chris Beard or Steve Pikiell, if you know basketball and have a vision you want to implement you can find the right guy in relative obscurity. Some guys are willing to wait for a better shot, but plenty of coaches want to take the first shot they can get.

I know Kraft is a football guy, but everywhere he’s been has been a basketball school. I’m hoping he’s picked up some knowledge along the way or at least some people in his network who know what they’re talking about. I hope Kraft is able to make some real commitments of improved resources during the interview process like Jarmond was with Hafley, and punch above our weight.


Howard Eisley is pretty much just waiting for our phone call apparently.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby BC923 on Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:17 pm

BCMurt09 wrote:
BC923 wrote:I’m not worried about not being able to find a coach who would be both interested and an improvement on Jimmy MAC. This is especially true if the plans for the new facility will be a part of the rollout of a new direction for the program. The dynamic of finding a basketball coach is a lot different than football. You have a lot more options, it’s not just looking at top coordinators or head coaches from a couple g5 conferences. Look at Chris Beard or Steve Pikiell, if you know basketball and have a vision you want to implement you can find the right guy in relative obscurity. Some guys are willing to wait for a better shot, but plenty of coaches want to take the first shot they can get.

I know Kraft is a football guy, but everywhere he’s been has been a basketball school. I’m hoping he’s picked up some knowledge along the way or at least some people in his network who know what they’re talking about. I hope Kraft is able to make some real commitments of improved resources during the interview process like Jarmond was with Hafley, and punch above our weight.


Howard Eisley is pretty much just waiting for our phone call apparently.

Would be similar to Kraft hiring McKie at Temple, not to compare Christian and Dunphy at all
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:43 pm

ATLeagle wrote:
Corporal Funishment wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:This is a bubble team roster. The coaching is terrible as it has been for all of JC's run. Even when he wins, it is not because he out schemed people. It was because he had two future NBA guards.


How many future NBA guards did he have when he racking up the all-time winningest record in MAC history (in terms of winning percentage)? Who do you think had more future NBA players on the roster last night, Florida or BC?


Florida had more talent but that's not why they were up 30 for long stretches.

I don't know the ins and out of the MAC but he inherited a winner at Kent St and then was only at Ohio a short time. TCU showed he is not up for the big time. We were just too dumb to ignore the signs.


He inherited a MAC powerhouse at Kent State from Stan Heath, who left to go coach at Arkansas where he actually did pretty well--he got shit canned after back to back seasons of making the NCAAT because Arkansas ticket sales were declining and they thought they needed a big name to jump start the program. Unfortunately for the Hogs, the job wasn't desirable for big names and up and comers were astounded that they fired Heath after back to back NCAATs and they ended up hiring John Pelphrey, who stunk, following that with Mike Anderson who jumped ship for St John's (a job that had been turned down by St John's first 5 choices) and now with Eric Musselman. Anyhow, Heath went to South Florida and made a couple of NCAATs before the bottom fell out when the program left the Big East for the AAC and he got canned. He was obviously an assistant here for a year or two before leaving to coach in the D-League.

Same situation at Ohio where he inherited a powerhouse that was built by John Groce, who took the Bobcats to the Sweet 16 before departing for Illinois where he made the NCAAT his first year and then declined--a couple of NITs and then the bottom falls out and he gets canned. Groce is now back in the MAC at Akron. His first year he took a basement dweller and made them a semi-respectable 14 win team. His second year they won 17 games.

In both instances, Heath and Groce have shown they can build a winner at the MAC level. Christian hasn't demonstrated anything other than he can take over an already successful MAC program and keep it operating at a good level (his best year at both Kent State and Ohio was not as good as the best years Heath and Groce had at those programs).
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby BCMurt09 on Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:58 pm

BC923 wrote:
BCMurt09 wrote:
BC923 wrote:I’m not worried about not being able to find a coach who would be both interested and an improvement on Jimmy MAC. This is especially true if the plans for the new facility will be a part of the rollout of a new direction for the program. The dynamic of finding a basketball coach is a lot different than football. You have a lot more options, it’s not just looking at top coordinators or head coaches from a couple g5 conferences. Look at Chris Beard or Steve Pikiell, if you know basketball and have a vision you want to implement you can find the right guy in relative obscurity. Some guys are willing to wait for a better shot, but plenty of coaches want to take the first shot they can get.

I know Kraft is a football guy, but everywhere he’s been has been a basketball school. I’m hoping he’s picked up some knowledge along the way or at least some people in his network who know what they’re talking about. I hope Kraft is able to make some real commitments of improved resources during the interview process like Jarmond was with Hafley, and punch above our weight.


Howard Eisley is pretty much just waiting for our phone call apparently.

Would be similar to Kraft hiring McKie at Temple, not to compare Christian and Dunphy at all


Yes but with hopefully better results, though one year is a small sample size.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby BC923 on Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:59 pm

I watched Groce’s Ohio team beat Georgetown in Providence in the first round back in 2009 or 2010. Great game and hilarious to sit among a bunch of Georgetown people shocked at their rapid decline. St. Mary’s beat Villanova in the second round a couple days later on the same court I think.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby eepstein0 on Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:40 pm

BCMurt09 wrote:
BC923 wrote:
BCMurt09 wrote:
BC923 wrote:I’m not worried about not being able to find a coach who would be both interested and an improvement on Jimmy MAC. This is especially true if the plans for the new facility will be a part of the rollout of a new direction for the program. The dynamic of finding a basketball coach is a lot different than football. You have a lot more options, it’s not just looking at top coordinators or head coaches from a couple g5 conferences. Look at Chris Beard or Steve Pikiell, if you know basketball and have a vision you want to implement you can find the right guy in relative obscurity. Some guys are willing to wait for a better shot, but plenty of coaches want to take the first shot they can get.

I know Kraft is a football guy, but everywhere he’s been has been a basketball school. I’m hoping he’s picked up some knowledge along the way or at least some people in his network who know what they’re talking about. I hope Kraft is able to make some real commitments of improved resources during the interview process like Jarmond was with Hafley, and punch above our weight.


Howard Eisley is pretty much just waiting for our phone call apparently.

Would be similar to Kraft hiring McKie at Temple, not to compare Christian and Dunphy at all


Yes but with hopefully better results, though one year is a small sample size.


I still think you’re taking a huge risk with Eisley. The coaching is a complete unknown with him. He’s apparently a very good recruiter.
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby eepstein0 on Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:43 pm

ATLeagle wrote:
Corporal Funishment wrote:
ATLeagle wrote:This is a bubble team roster. The coaching is terrible as it has been for all of JC's run. Even when he wins, it is not because he out schemed people. It was because he had two future NBA guards.


How many future NBA guards did he have when he racking up the all-time winningest record in MAC history (in terms of winning percentage)? Who do you think had more future NBA players on the roster last night, Florida or BC?


Florida had more talent but that's not why they were up 30 for long stretches.

I don't know the ins and out of the MAC but he inherited a winner at Kent St and then was only at Ohio a short time. TCU showed he is not up for the big time. We were just too dumb to ignore the signs.


Florida was up 30 most of last night based on open layups, dunks and uncontested 3s. We played absolutely no defense (and haven’t in these first 4 games)
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Re: Mohegan Bubble

Postby eaglesmith on Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:21 am

BC923 wrote:I watched Groce’s Ohio team beat Georgetown in Providence in the first round back in 2009 or 2010. Great game and hilarious to sit among a bunch of Georgetown people shocked at their rapid decline. St. Mary’s beat Villanova in the second round a couple days later on the same court I think.


Speaking of Georgetown's decline...https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... =401261582
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