Andy Katz Article

[Eagledom]

He leaves the possibility open that the two guys can "figure it out". So, it's a great quote by a great coach.

Skinner rules, go BC !!!

Who are our recruits so far for next year???

yeah, i love my coach saying that two sophomores aren't legit players. great quote.

[angrychicken]

Leave it to basketball season and an Al Skinner discussion to remove even the slightest doubt that Eagledom is OJ.

I get it, you are "OJ" if you call out Skinner on a quote that completey bashes two of his players.

So you're saying that you are the Queen of Dicks? Got it.

[cvilleagle]

No one is throwing anyone under the bus. Throwing someone under the bus implies that you are blaming them for something. Skinner isn't blaming anyone for anything. How could he? They haven't even played a game yet. Spaz has said virtually the same thing about even his good players - Shinskie and Keuchly, for instance, when he says that they still have "a lot to learn." That's really all that Al said. He said two others "might have to figure it out."

But Spaz/TOB are different in that they will dowplay expectations, setting up excuses for failure, and just have a different attitude...i.e. "this could get ugly." You would never hear Skinner say that. He says "Let's go."

[Chilltown]

I have a feeling that Ravenel is in the first 8 and Dunn isn't.

[Puerto Rico Eagle]

All Al said was that the two players "had to figure it out" how do we get from that to him saying they are crappy? Even great talents in any college sport need time to figure it out especially in the cases of Ellmore and Ravanel who played very little last year. They both showed flashes of being good, but never got enough time to put it all together. They will get their chance in the Non-Conference games and in clear Al fashion if you don't make the rotation by then, you are done. This happens on most teams in the country....don't know what the big deal is.

[Eagledom]

All Al said was that the two players "had to figure it out" how do we get from that to him saying they are crappy? Even great talents in any college sport need time to figure it out especially in the cases of Ellmore and Ravanel who played very little last year. They both showed flashes of being good, but never got enough time to put it all together. They will get their chance in the Non-Conference games and in clear Al fashion if you don't make the rotation by then, you are done. This happens on most teams in the country....don't know what the big deal is.

"We've got 8 guys that can legitimately play"

[Cadillac90]

He leaves the possibility open that the two guys can "figure it out". So, it's a great quote by a great coach.

Skinner rules, go BC !!!

Who are our recruits so far for next year???

yeah, i love my coach saying that two sophomores aren't legit players. great quote.

Please go back and read the entire article. For starters, Katz says Dunn and Ravenel will be fighting it out for the 8th spot so I don't get why you just assume that Al was throwing Ravenel and Ellmore under the bus. Why do you assume that one of the two is Ravenel if according to Katz, he is in the mix. Secondly, how is the fact that Al said two guys need to "figure it out" a condemnation of their play? Where is it written that every kid who gets a scholarship has to be ready to log significant playing time in their first or second year? Roche sure as hell didn't get it his first two years, Southern didn't get it his first year and now he's starting. Just relax and stop taking quotes out of context to defend yourself against the Spaz critques.

[Cadillac90]

All Al said was that the two players "had to figure it out" how do we get from that to him saying they are crappy? Even great talents in any college sport need time to figure it out especially in the cases of Ellmore and Ravanel who played very little last year. They both showed flashes of being good, but never got enough time to put it all together. They will get their chance in the Non-Conference games and in clear Al fashion if you don't make the rotation by then, you are done. This happens on most teams in the country....don't know what the big deal is.

"We've got 8 guys that can legitimately play"

That is not throwing players under the bus. Throwing a player(s) under the bus occurs when a coach places direct blame on a player or players for a loss, see Tom O'Brien after the latest NCSU debacle. How is saying a couple of kids need work on their game throwing a kid under the bus? Please explain.

Here is an example of throwing under the bus by TOB

"Oh, absolutely. Mike's been part of this before," O'Brien said on Thursday. "He built a heck of a defense at Kentucky before he came here, a place where they had a long tradition of not going to bowl games, and winning. He came to us as one of the top defensive coordinators in the country at turning the football over.
"You know, sometimes it's not the coach, sometimes it's the arrows in his quiver that need to improve."

[Eagledom]

He leaves the possibility open that the two guys can "figure it out". So, it's a great quote by a great coach.

Skinner rules, go BC !!!

Who are our recruits so far for next year???

yeah, i love my coach saying that two sophomores aren't legit players. great quote.

Please go back and read the entire article. For starters, Katz says Dunn and Ravenel will be fighting it out for the 8th spot so I don't get why you just assume that Al was throwing Ravenel and Ellmore under the bus. Why do you assume that one of the two is Ravenel if according to Katz, he is in the mix. Secondly, how is the fact that Al said two guys need to "figure it out" a condemnation of their play? Where is it written that every kid who gets a scholarship has to be ready to log significant playing time in their first or second year? Roche sure as hell didn't get it his first two years, Southern didn't get it his first year and now he's starting. Just relax and stop taking quotes out of context to defend yourself against the Spaz critques.

Fine, he isn't throwing them under the bus by your definition, but he is singling out two players on the team and saying they aren't legit players (direct quote - not my interpretation). That's just bullshit.

[Cadillac90]

He leaves the possibility open that the two guys can "figure it out". So, it's a great quote by a great coach.

Skinner rules, go BC !!!

Who are our recruits so far for next year???

yeah, i love my coach saying that two sophomores aren't legit players. great quote.

Please go back and read the entire article. For starters, Katz says Dunn and Ravenel will be fighting it out for the 8th spot so I don't get why you just assume that Al was throwing Ravenel and Ellmore under the bus. Why do you assume that one of the two is Ravenel if according to Katz, he is in the mix. Secondly, how is the fact that Al said two guys need to "figure it out" a condemnation of their play? Where is it written that every kid who gets a scholarship has to be ready to log significant playing time in their first or second year? Roche sure as hell didn't get it his first two years, Southern didn't get it his first year and now he's starting. Just relax and stop taking quotes out of context to defend yourself against the Spaz critques.

Fine, he isn't throwing them under the bus by your definition, but he is singling out two players on the team and saying they aren't legit players (direct quote - not my interpretation). That's just bullshit.

He doesn't directly say that they aren't legitimate players, he says they need to work on their game to get to the next level. That is not a bullshit offense.

[Eagledom]

He leaves the possibility open that the two guys can "figure it out". So, it's a great quote by a great coach.

Skinner rules, go BC !!!

Who are our recruits so far for next year???

yeah, i love my coach saying that two sophomores aren't legit players. great quote.

Please go back and read the entire article. For starters, Katz says Dunn and Ravenel will be fighting it out for the 8th spot so I don't get why you just assume that Al was throwing Ravenel and Ellmore under the bus. Why do you assume that one of the two is Ravenel if according to Katz, he is in the mix. Secondly, how is the fact that Al said two guys need to "figure it out" a condemnation of their play? Where is it written that every kid who gets a scholarship has to be ready to log significant playing time in their first or second year? Roche sure as hell didn't get it his first two years, Southern didn't get it his first year and now he's starting. Just relax and stop taking quotes out of context to defend yourself against the Spaz critques.

Fine, he isn't throwing them under the bus by your definition, but he is singling out two players on the team and saying they aren't legit players (direct quote - not my interpretation). That's just bullshit.

He doesn't directly say that they aren't legitimate players, he says they need to work on their game to get to the next level. That is not a bullshit offense.

We only got 10 guys. We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway."

Yeas he does say that can't legitimately play. Then he even goes on to say they they may have to figure it out (i.e., if they have to be thrown in there)...but that you only need 8 anyway. There is no spin here. The quote is pretty damning.

[b0mberMan]

I have a feeling that Ravenel is in the first 8 and Dunn isn't.

I think they both need to be out there. Roche can contribute, and he'll get minutes, but he has no business playing PF in the ACC.

Katz already wrote one of his "watch out for X" blurbs a while back for Ravenel. The last few guys he did that for were Jackson and Sanders. I think it was academics that kept Ravenel on the bench last year, not talent.

[Cadillac90]

He leaves the possibility open that the two guys can "figure it out". So, it's a great quote by a great coach.

Skinner rules, go BC !!!

Who are our recruits so far for next year???

yeah, i love my coach saying that two sophomores aren't legit players. great quote.

Please go back and read the entire article. For starters, Katz says Dunn and Ravenel will be fighting it out for the 8th spot so I don't get why you just assume that Al was throwing Ravenel and Ellmore under the bus. Why do you assume that one of the two is Ravenel if according to Katz, he is in the mix. Secondly, how is the fact that Al said two guys need to "figure it out" a condemnation of their play? Where is it written that every kid who gets a scholarship has to be ready to log significant playing time in their first or second year? Roche sure as hell didn't get it his first two years, Southern didn't get it his first year and now he's starting. Just relax and stop taking quotes out of context to defend yourself against the Spaz critques.

Fine, he isn't throwing them under the bus by your definition, but he is singling out two players on the team and saying they aren't legit players (direct quote - not my interpretation). That's just bullshit.

He doesn't directly say that they aren't legitimate players, he says they need to work on their game to get to the next level. That is not a bullshit offense.

We only got 10 guys. We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway."

Yeas he does say that can't legitimately play. Then he even goes on to say they they may have to figure it out (i.e., if they have to be thrown in there)...but that you only need 8 anyway. There is no spin here. The quote is pretty damning.

What is so damning about saying that a couple of your players need some work?????????????????? Do you think EVERY player on EVERY ACC team is ready to play and make meaningful contributions? So tell me again what is so wrong with the statements from Coach Skinner?

[Eagledom]

He leaves the possibility open that the two guys can "figure it out". So, it's a great quote by a great coach.

Skinner rules, go BC !!!

Who are our recruits so far for next year???

yeah, i love my coach saying that two sophomores aren't legit players. great quote.

Please go back and read the entire article. For starters, Katz says Dunn and Ravenel will be fighting it out for the 8th spot so I don't get why you just assume that Al was throwing Ravenel and Ellmore under the bus. Why do you assume that one of the two is Ravenel if according to Katz, he is in the mix. Secondly, how is the fact that Al said two guys need to "figure it out" a condemnation of their play? Where is it written that every kid who gets a scholarship has to be ready to log significant playing time in their first or second year? Roche sure as hell didn't get it his first two years, Southern didn't get it his first year and now he's starting. Just relax and stop taking quotes out of context to defend yourself against the Spaz critques.

Fine, he isn't throwing them under the bus by your definition, but he is singling out two players on the team and saying they aren't legit players (direct quote - not my interpretation). That's just bullshit.

He doesn't directly say that they aren't legitimate players, he says they need to work on their game to get to the next level. That is not a bullshit offense.

We only got 10 guys. We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway."

Yeas he does say that can't legitimately play. Then he even goes on to say they they may have to figure it out (i.e., if they have to be thrown in there)...but that you only need 8 anyway. There is no spin here. The quote is pretty damning.

What is so damning about saying that a couple of your players need some work?????????????????? Do you think EVERY player on EVERY ACC team is ready to play and make meaningful contributions? So tell me again what is so wrong with the statements from Coach Skinner?

This quote is a hell of a lot different than "these guys need some more work, but they'll get there." He said they can't legitimately play, but we only need 8 anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[apbc12]

So tell me again what is so wrong with the statements from Coach Skinner?

They were made by Coach Skinner.

[Eagledom]

So tell me again what is so wrong with the statements from Coach Skinner?

They were made by Coach Skinner.

Another one of your really insightful posts.

[Cadillac90]

So tell me again what is so wrong with the statements from Coach Skinner?

They were made by Coach Skinner.

Another one of your really insightful posts.

Eagledom - you are taking that quote way out of context. He does not explicitly say that there are two kids who "cannot legitimately play." He says eight can legitimately play and the other two need to work on it. Please stop twisitng this quote to fit your agenda. I don't know who he is referring to but if you read the article you can conclude that it is either Dunn, Ravenel and Ellmore. Given the minutes each one of those kids played last year and the fact in all of their minutes played they showed potential do you really think Skinner meant that they were "not legitimate players?" Think hard about this one.

Are these statements damning?

“He’s light-years ahead of where he came in, and he’s still got light-years to go,’’

"I thought some guys demonstrated some toughness, but we've got a long way to go…”

“We have to get to the point where we can make those plays, but we just didn’t do it today.”

I don't see anything wrong with these. They are made by a coach who is saying certain players and the team in general need some work to do; very similar to Skinner's comments.

[Cadillac90]

He leaves the possibility open that the two guys can "figure it out". So, it's a great quote by a great coach.

Skinner rules, go BC !!!

Who are our recruits so far for next year???

yeah, i love my coach saying that two sophomores aren't legit players. great quote.

Please go back and read the entire article. For starters, Katz says Dunn and Ravenel will be fighting it out for the 8th spot so I don't get why you just assume that Al was throwing Ravenel and Ellmore under the bus. Why do you assume that one of the two is Ravenel if according to Katz, he is in the mix. Secondly, how is the fact that Al said two guys need to "figure it out" a condemnation of their play? Where is it written that every kid who gets a scholarship has to be ready to log significant playing time in their first or second year? Roche sure as hell didn't get it his first two years, Southern didn't get it his first year and now he's starting. Just relax and stop taking quotes out of context to defend yourself against the Spaz critques.

Fine, he isn't throwing them under the bus by your definition, but he is singling out two players on the team and saying they aren't legit players (direct quote - not my interpretation). That's just bullshit.

He doesn't directly say that they aren't legitimate players, he says they need to work on their game to get to the next level. That is not a bullshit offense.

We only got 10 guys. We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway."

Yeas he does say that can't legitimately play. Then he even goes on to say they they may have to figure it out (i.e., if they have to be thrown in there)...but that you only need 8 anyway. There is no spin here. The quote is pretty damning.

What is so damning about saying that a couple of your players need some work?????????????????? Do you think EVERY player on EVERY ACC team is ready to play and make meaningful contributions? So tell me again what is so wrong with the statements from Coach Skinner?

This quote is a hell of a lot different than "these guys need some more work, but they'll get there." He said they can't legitimately play, but we only need 8 anyway, so it doesn't matter.

I don't know what else to tell you other than you're dead wrong. I don't know if you don't like Coach Skinner or what. I also can't figure out why you continue to say that Skinner's comments were inapproriate when you are clearly misinterpreting his statements. Assuming that you are correct that he is referring to Ravenel and Elmore, the following two quotes prove that Skinner doesn't mean that these two kids cannot "legitimately" play and that he was saying the need work.

"Dallas has a better understanding this year," Skinner said. "Hopefully he can stay healthy and get a chance to get on the floor. If he does, he's going to give us some valuable minutes." --do you honestly think Skinner doesn't view him as a legitimate player if he's expecting valuable minutes from the kid?


"Evan's lost weight so it's made him a little bit quicker. He's got decent skills for a guy his size. He can handle and shoot the ball," Skinner said. "The ingredients are there. Now it's a matter of mixing it all together and coming up with a finished product. He's making an effort to do that. He has a chance to be rather effective." --I am not ure how much more clear it can be that Skinner's comments to Katz were that he thinks the two players in question need to work on their game.

[commavegarage]

I have a feeling that Ravenel is in the first 8 and Dunn isn't.

I think they both need to be out there. Roche can contribute, and he'll get minutes, but he has no business playing PF in the ACC.

Katz already wrote one of his "watch out for X" blurbs a while back for Ravenel. The last few guys he did that for were Jackson and Sanders. I think it was academics that kept Ravenel on the bench last year, not talent.

It was.

I don't know why people keep fighting with OJ. We all know he's wrong, and continuing the fight gives him satisfaction.

[twballgame9]

This quote was interesting:

"We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway.''

Wow. He is so the anti-spaz/TOB. I love it.

wow. its funny how people on this board will take a quote completely out of contect (or even make up quotes) in order to bash Spaz. But here's a quote that Skinner blatantly dismisses two of his players as crappy, but that aspect of the quote is completely ignored and it is touted as a "GREAT QUOTE"!!!

You are a douche. He is saying that they haven't figured it out yet. You are the one misreading the quote.

[twballgame9]

And if he is throwing players under the bus for being crappy, it is more likely about Dunn and Roche.

[Eagledom]

This quote was interesting:

"We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway.''

Wow. He is so the anti-spaz/TOB. I love it.

wow. its funny how people on this board will take a quote completely out of contect (or even make up quotes) in order to bash Spaz. But here's a quote that Skinner blatantly dismisses two of his players as crappy, but that aspect of the quote is completely ignored and it is touted as a "GREAT QUOTE"!!!

You are a douche. He is saying that they haven't figured it out yet. You are the one misreading the quote.

There is no mis-reading "we have 8 legit players, but you only need 8."

[Cadillac90]

This quote was interesting:

"We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway.''

Wow. He is so the anti-spaz/TOB. I love it.

wow. its funny how people on this board will take a quote completely out of contect (or even make up quotes) in order to bash Spaz. But here's a quote that Skinner blatantly dismisses two of his players as crappy, but that aspect of the quote is completely ignored and it is touted as a "GREAT QUOTE"!!!

You are a douche. He is saying that they haven't figured it out yet. You are the one misreading the quote.

There is no mis-reading "we have 8 legit players, but you only need 8."

Clearly you didn't mis-read it but you did misinterpret what Skinner was saying...please see my post above with direct quotes from Skinner that leave no room for misinterpretation.

[twballgame9]

This quote was interesting:

"We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway.''

Wow. He is so the anti-spaz/TOB. I love it.

wow. its funny how people on this board will take a quote completely out of contect (or even make up quotes) in order to bash Spaz. But here's a quote that Skinner blatantly dismisses two of his players as crappy, but that aspect of the quote is completely ignored and it is touted as a "GREAT QUOTE"!!!

You are a douche. He is saying that they haven't figured it out yet. You are the one misreading the quote.

There is no mis-reading "we have 8 legit players, but you only need 8."

If that vaguely resembled the whole quote, OJ, I might agree with you.

[BCEagles25]

Why is it that even though God has answered our desperate prayers to have OJ gone from our forums, we're still talking about him?

[Eagledom]

Why is it that even though God has answered our desperate prayers to have OJ gone from our forums, we're still talking about him?

Because apparently you can't criticze Al for anything or else you are OJ from the other board.

[Eagledom]

This quote was interesting:

"We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway.''

Wow. He is so the anti-spaz/TOB. I love it.

wow. its funny how people on this board will take a quote completely out of contect (or even make up quotes) in order to bash Spaz. But here's a quote that Skinner blatantly dismisses two of his players as crappy, but that aspect of the quote is completely ignored and it is touted as a "GREAT QUOTE"!!!

You are a douche. He is saying that they haven't figured it out yet. You are the one misreading the quote.

There is no mis-reading "we have 8 legit players, but you only need 8."

If that vaguely resembled the whole quote, OJ, I might agree with you.

Those two parts of the quote stand by themselves. He shouldn't be saying that. And its not like he said, "they're learning...they're getting there." He said, "they might have to figure it out." Not a ringing endorsement.

[Cadillac90]

This quote was interesting:

"We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway.''

Wow. He is so the anti-spaz/TOB. I love it.

wow. its funny how people on this board will take a quote completely out of contect (or even make up quotes) in order to bash Spaz. But here's a quote that Skinner blatantly dismisses two of his players as crappy, but that aspect of the quote is completely ignored and it is touted as a "GREAT QUOTE"!!!

You are a douche. He is saying that they haven't figured it out yet. You are the one misreading the quote.

There is no mis-reading "we have 8 legit players, but you only need 8."

If that vaguely resembled the whole quote, OJ, I might agree with you.

Those two parts of the quote stand by themselves. He shouldn't be saying that. And its not like he said, "they're learning...they're getting there." He said, "they might have to figure it out." Not a ringing endorsement.

Why do you continue to ignore my post with the quotes directly from Al that refute your interpretation? Skinner did not say anything bad. Also, why do you not address my other post with the three similar quotes? Are those "bad" things to say? Look, I'm not sure if you are OJ but avoiding quotes where you are proven wrong is very OJ-like.

[bcbcbcbcbc4444]

This quote was interesting:

"We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway.''

Wow. He is so the anti-spaz/TOB. I love it.

wow. its funny how people on this board will take a quote completely out of contect (or even make up quotes) in order to bash Spaz. But here's a quote that Skinner blatantly dismisses two of his players as crappy, but that aspect of the quote is completely ignored and it is touted as a "GREAT QUOTE"!!!

You are a douche. He is saying that they haven't figured it out yet. You are the one misreading the quote.

There is no mis-reading "we have 8 legit players, but you only need 8."

If that vaguely resembled the whole quote, OJ, I might agree with you.

Those two parts of the quote stand by themselves. He shouldn't be saying that. And its not like he said, "they're learning...they're getting there." He said, "they might have to figure it out." Not a ringing endorsement.

Isnt any time a college coach only puts in a certain player for the crap minutes essentially saying that they arent a legit player? There are players like that on every single team. Who cares if Al says it before the season or makes it evident during the season.

[Eagledom]

This quote was interesting:

"We've got eight guys who can legitimately play and two others that might have to figure it out. So let's go. You don't need more than eight anyway.''

Wow. He is so the anti-spaz/TOB. I love it.

wow. its funny how people on this board will take a quote completely out of contect (or even make up quotes) in order to bash Spaz. But here's a quote that Skinner blatantly dismisses two of his players as crappy, but that aspect of the quote is completely ignored and it is touted as a "GREAT QUOTE"!!!

You are a douche. He is saying that they haven't figured it out yet. You are the one misreading the quote.

There is no mis-reading "we have 8 legit players, but you only need 8."

If that vaguely resembled the whole quote, OJ, I might agree with you.

Those two parts of the quote stand by themselves. He shouldn't be saying that. And its not like he said, "they're learning...they're getting there." He said, "they might have to figure it out." Not a ringing endorsement.

Why do you continue to ignore my post with the quotes directly from Al that refute your interpretation? Skinner did not say anything bad. Also, why do you not address my other post with the three similar quotes? Are those "bad" things to say? Look, I'm not sure if you are OJ but avoiding quotes where you are proven wrong is very OJ-like.

I am not ignoring those quotes. Yes, he says they have potential when asked directly about them. But I am talking about that one quote when he talks about the team and completely dismisses them. I am not leaping to any conclusions about their ability or Al's thoughts about them ...I am just saying that quote was ridiculously stupid. H\If I were one of them and I read that quote from my coach I would be pissed.