Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:24 am

wildcat81 {l Wrote}:The ACC is a tough conference, BC future doesn't look good because the bottom teams are going too improve. BC is recruiting mid-major types of players
and lower teams are moving up to that level. I think almost everyone on this site want this team to be a upper level team in the ACC. Al who I liked set the team back at least one season. Donahue was motivated but his style of play didn't fit the team talent. Even though the snow is everywhere, the basketball program is in the desert.


how can you say Al set the team back, the team was not set at all until he set it.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:58 am

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:
wildcat81 {l Wrote}:BC is recruiting mid-major types of players

Recruiting mid-major types of players or landing them? Because I see the w31rd0s thread littered with names the coaches are recruiting who won't come to BC in a hundred years.


For perspective (which no one cares at all about) without argument, according to Rivals Christian has three "top 150" recruits between his first three classes in Diallo (2014), Turner (2015) and Graves (2016). Donahue had zero over his entire tenure (which will surprise no one). Al had 4 in his tenure, Williams, Haynes, Sanders and Jackson. Smith probably would have been one after prep school too. Now, I know that someone is going to argue that all of a sudden Clemson and Virginia Tech are insurmountable juggernauts, that Al's results weren't good enough, that the new ACC is way more competitive than the old bigeast or old ACC and to varying degrees those things have elements of truth.

For additional perspective that no one will care about: *** ******* was the top rated BC prospect since they've done the rankings (Smith predates) at 104, AJ Turner is second at 108, Reggie Jackson is third at 118, Ty Graves fourth at 120, Diallo is fifth at 128, Sanders is sixth at 132, Haynes was 150.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby MilitantEagle on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:04 pm

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:
wildcat81 {l Wrote}:BC is recruiting mid-major types of players

Recruiting mid-major types of players or landing them? Because I see the w31rd0s thread littered with names the coaches are recruiting who won't come to BC in a hundred years.


For perspective (which no one cares at all about) without argument, according to Rivals Christian has three "top 150" recruits between his first three classes in Diallo (2014), Turner (2015) and Graves (2016). Donahue had zero over his entire tenure (which will surprise no one). Al had 4 in his tenure, Williams, Haynes, Sanders and Jackson. Smith probably would have been one after prep school too. Now, I know that someone is going to argue that all of a sudden Clemson and Virginia Tech are insurmountable juggernauts, that Al's results weren't good enough, that the new ACC is way more competitive than the old bigeast or old ACC and to varying degrees those things have elements of truth.

For additional perspective that no one will care about: *** ******* was the top rated BC prospect since they've done the rankings (Smith predates) at 104, AJ Turner is second at 108, Reggie Jackson is third at 118, Ty Graves fourth at 120, Diallo is fifth at 128, Sanders is sixth at 132, Haynes was 150.



Good post. I've been surprised that people are unimpressed or even upset with Christian's recruiting when there hasn't been a coach at BC who's had better recruiting results, at least according to the rankings. I know that's not saying much, but given the state of the current program, I've been pleased with the guys he's pulled in, again, according to the rankings. But I have no idea if they will end up like Reggie Jackson and Craig Smith or Marquez Haynes (really?) and Rakim Sanders.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:17 pm

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:
wildcat81 {l Wrote}:BC is recruiting mid-major types of players

Recruiting mid-major types of players or landing them? Because I see the w31rd0s thread littered with names the coaches are recruiting who won't come to BC in a hundred years.


For perspective (which no one cares at all about) without argument, according to Rivals Christian has three "top 150" recruits between his first three classes in Diallo (2014), Turner (2015) and Graves (2016). Donahue had zero over his entire tenure (which will surprise no one). Al had 4 in his tenure, Williams, Haynes, Sanders and Jackson. Smith probably would have been one after prep school too. Now, I know that someone is going to argue that all of a sudden Clemson and Virginia Tech are insurmountable juggernauts, that Al's results weren't good enough, that the new ACC is way more competitive than the old bigeast or old ACC and to varying degrees those things have elements of truth.

For additional perspective that no one will care about: *** ******* was the top rated BC prospect since they've done the rankings (Smith predates) at 104, AJ Turner is second at 108, Reggie Jackson is third at 118, Ty Graves fourth at 120, Diallo is fifth at 128, Sanders is sixth at 132, Haynes was 150.



Good post. I've been surprised that people are unimpressed or even upset with Christian's recruiting when there hasn't been a coach at BC who's had better recruiting results, at least according to the rankings. I know that's not saying much, but given the state of the current program, I've been pleased with the guys he's pulled in, again, according to the rankings. But I have no idea if they will end up like Reggie Jackson and Craig Smith or Marquez Haynes (really?) and Rakim Sanders.


I'll be happy if they turn out statistically like the real Rakim Sanders, minus the cheesesteaks. Revisionist History Sanders? No way, I agree that guy was terrible.

Christian's recruiting has been good. I think people gripe because of the misses that could have made it great.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby claver2010 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:19 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:
wildcat81 {l Wrote}:BC is recruiting mid-major types of players

Recruiting mid-major types of players or landing them? Because I see the w31rd0s thread littered with names the coaches are recruiting who won't come to BC in a hundred years.


For perspective (which no one cares at all about) without argument, according to Rivals Christian has three "top 150" recruits between his first three classes in Diallo (2014), Turner (2015) and Graves (2016). Donahue had zero over his entire tenure (which will surprise no one). Al had 4 in his tenure, Williams, Haynes, Sanders and Jackson. Smith probably would have been one after prep school too. Now, I know that someone is going to argue that all of a sudden Clemson and Virginia Tech are insurmountable juggernauts, that Al's results weren't good enough, that the new ACC is way more competitive than the old bigeast or old ACC and to varying degrees those things have elements of truth.

For additional perspective that no one will care about: *** ******* was the top rated BC prospect since they've done the rankings (Smith predates) at 104, AJ Turner is second at 108, Reggie Jackson is third at 118, Ty Graves fourth at 120, Diallo is fifth at 128, Sanders is sixth at 132, Haynes was 150.



Good post. I've been surprised that people are unimpressed or even upset with Christian's recruiting when there hasn't been a coach at BC who's had better recruiting results, at least according to the rankings. I know that's not saying much, but given the state of the current program, I've been pleased with the guys he's pulled in, again, according to the rankings. But I have no idea if they will end up like Reggie Jackson and Craig Smith or Marquez Haynes (really?) and Rakim Sanders.


I'll be happy if they turn out statistically like the real Rakim Sanders, minus the cheesesteaks. Revisionist History Sanders? No way, I agree that guy was terrible.

Christian's recruiting has been good. I think people gripe because of the misses that could have made it great.


bonus points if said recruit has relatives come to the game that require private security like rakim sanders' family did
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:39 pm

I think its worth keeping track of the misses too.

Terrell was much discussed because he ended up going to a midmajor (albeit one that looks to be our superior for the immediate future), but this was also like 3 weeks following Christian's hiring. If I remember correctly, we were all in shock that we hadn't hired Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl or Phil Jackson, then Christian got the Diallo commit and some people started thinking it might not be the worst thing ever and then he lost Terrell and the wheels came off again.

Then the next year we had the weird Falzon's dad thing, the Sharma loss, which is probably the worst of the group but I guess it depends on your opinion of Stanford as to whether anything could be done about this, Terrance Mann which its pretty clear wasn't actually anywhere near what people thought it was possibility wise, Markis Mcduffie and Jeremy Miller.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby Cadillac90 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:10 am

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I think its worth keeping track of the misses too.

Terrell was much discussed because he ended up going to a midmajor (albeit one that looks to be our superior for the immediate future), but this was also like 3 weeks following Christian's hiring. If I remember correctly, we were all in shock that we hadn't hired Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl or Phil Jackson, then Christian got the Diallo commit and some people started thinking it might not be the worst thing ever and then he lost Terrell and the wheels came off again.


Why would anyone have wanted Phil Jackson? He's too old and would never have been around for more than three years. I think we were in shock because the hire was another MAC coach who had a brief and less than stellar stint at TCU. I am over the shock now and am content where things stand for now.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:16 am

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I think its worth keeping track of the misses too.

Terrell was much discussed because he ended up going to a midmajor (albeit one that looks to be our superior for the immediate future), but this was also like 3 weeks following Christian's hiring. If I remember correctly, we were all in shock that we hadn't hired Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl or Phil Jackson, then Christian got the Diallo commit and some people started thinking it might not be the worst thing ever and then he lost Terrell and the wheels came off again.


Why would anyone have wanted Phil Jackson? He's too old and would never have been around for more than three years. I think we were in shock because the hire was another MAC coach who had a brief and less than stellar stint at TCU. I am over the shock now and am content where things stand for now.


Yes, there may have been some exaggeration in my post.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:17 am

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I think its worth keeping track of the misses too.

Terrell was much discussed because he ended up going to a midmajor (albeit one that looks to be our superior for the immediate future), but this was also like 3 weeks following Christian's hiring. If I remember correctly, we were all in shock that we hadn't hired Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl or Phil Jackson, then Christian got the Diallo commit and some people started thinking it might not be the worst thing ever and then he lost Terrell and the wheels came off again.


Why would anyone have wanted Phil Jackson? He's too old and would never have been around for more than three years. I think we were in shock because the hire was another MAC coach who had a brief and less than stellar stint at TCU. I am over the shock now and am content where things stand for now.


BTW, wildcat[some number] criticized skinner up thread and you seem to have failed to respond. Trouble at home?
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby Cadillac90 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:19 am

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I think its worth keeping track of the misses too.

Terrell was much discussed because he ended up going to a midmajor (albeit one that looks to be our superior for the immediate future), but this was also like 3 weeks following Christian's hiring. If I remember correctly, we were all in shock that we hadn't hired Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl or Phil Jackson, then Christian got the Diallo commit and some people started thinking it might not be the worst thing ever and then he lost Terrell and the wheels came off again.


Why would anyone have wanted Phil Jackson? He's too old and would never have been around for more than three years. I think we were in shock because the hire was another MAC coach who had a brief and less than stellar stint at TCU. I am over the shock now and am content where things stand for now.


BTW, wildcat[some number] criticized skinner up thread and you seem to have failed to respond. Trouble at home?


Nah, I just figured it was a typo. JOB really set the program back and we are still paying for it.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby Mitch on Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:18 pm

Donohue wanted to recruit players who could shoot at every position---thus, he didn't recruit for defense or rebounding. Every team needs a couple of bangers, defensive closers and good athletes to get to loose balls. Hopefully, Coach Christian will change that approach.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby Cadillac90 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:26 pm

Mitch {l Wrote}:Donohue wanted to recruit players who could shoot at every position---thus, he didn't recruit for defense or rebounding. Every team needs a couple of bangers, defensive closers and good athletes to get to loose balls. Hopefully, Coach Christian will change that approach.


The only thing I didn't understand was that Donahue didn't really recruit great shooters. :shrug
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby HJS on Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:45 pm

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
Mitch {l Wrote}:Donohue wanted to recruit players who could shoot at every position---thus, he didn't recruit for defense or rebounding. Every team needs a couple of bangers, defensive closers and good athletes to get to loose balls. Hopefully, Coach Christian will change that approach.


The only thing I didn't understand was that Donahue didn't really recruit great shooters. :shrug

Don didn't recruit top players (and seemed completely uninterested in doing so). Instead, he supposedly recruited players who fit his system. However, his players never meshed well with one another. Don is a good guy and punched all the boxes with his off-the-court stuff. However, in hindsight, it seems that he really just got lucky with a couple of guys at Cornell who combined with a large recruiting class that matured over 4-years. That said, he probably should have been given one more year to prove himself.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:55 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:That said, he probably should have been given one more year to prove himself.


Yeah, no. Unlike Al, he hadn't earned that right.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby DavidGordonsFoot on Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:59 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:That said, he probably should have been given one more year to prove himself.


Yeah, no. Unlike Al, he hadn't earned that right.

This. The 2013-2014 season was too big a step backwards to ignore.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby claver2010 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:01 pm

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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby JimDog90 on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:35 am

HJS {l Wrote}:
Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
Mitch {l Wrote}:Donohue wanted to recruit players who could shoot at every position---thus, he didn't recruit for defense or rebounding. Every team needs a couple of bangers, defensive closers and good athletes to get to loose balls. Hopefully, Coach Christian will change that approach.


The only thing I didn't understand was that Donahue didn't really recruit great shooters. :shrug

Don didn't recruit top players (and seemed completely uninterested in doing so). Instead, he supposedly recruited players who fit his system. However, his players never meshed well with one another. Don is a good guy and punched all the boxes with his off-the-court stuff. However, in hindsight, it seems that he really just got lucky with a couple of guys at Cornell who combined with a large recruiting class that matured over 4-years. That said, he probably should have been given one more year to prove himself.


Well said. Regarding Skinner: every Al basher and every Al apologist both make good points; Al had a GREAT run at BC. He was a decent game manager if not an innovative strategist; with the help of a very able staff for most of his tenure here he struck gold on some recruits, and most importantly I think unlike the vast number of con-men coaching DI his understated style got the most out of his players. However, the talented staff of assistants moved on and he got VERY complacent, and despite the fact that much of the GDF bashing that goes on here is justified, the AD was his boss and when he said I need you to do X,Y,and Z and Al said, "that's not my job", Gene was justified in showing him the door.

You characterized Donahue perfectly, although I don't know if another year would have mattered- the wheels seemed to totally be coming off last season; granted maybe in part because the squad knew half way through the year that their days were numbered....worse thing I think Donahue did was hand the playmaking to Rahon, the guy's basketball IQ was obviously a bit further along than Hanlan; but to NOT recognize the gulf in physical ability and potential between the two was ridiculous. Hanlan has spent a good part of the season adjusting to being the point guard, which is something that should have happened last year.

Christian and his staff seems to know what they are doing, did their best to swing in Diallo and the 5th year guys on short notice. If you don't recognize the accomplishment getting this group to be competitive in the ACC, then you are missing something. They just don't have the talent on the offensive end. After Hanlan, no one has demonstrated the ability to create a shot for themselves when it counts in crunch time and that is why they hit the wall trying to close out these games.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby eepstein0 on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:56 am

Christian wants to play 4 out and 1 in on offense. Think Villanova or something like that
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby twballgame9 on Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:29 am

JimDog90 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
Mitch {l Wrote}:Donohue wanted to recruit players who could shoot at every position---thus, he didn't recruit for defense or rebounding. Every team needs a couple of bangers, defensive closers and good athletes to get to loose balls. Hopefully, Coach Christian will change that approach.


The only thing I didn't understand was that Donahue didn't really recruit great shooters. :shrug

Don didn't recruit top players (and seemed completely uninterested in doing so). Instead, he supposedly recruited players who fit his system. However, his players never meshed well with one another. Don is a good guy and punched all the boxes with his off-the-court stuff. However, in hindsight, it seems that he really just got lucky with a couple of guys at Cornell who combined with a large recruiting class that matured over 4-years. That said, he probably should have been given one more year to prove himself.


Well said. Regarding Skinner: every Al basher and every Al apologist both make good points; Al had a GREAT run at BC. He was a decent game manager if not an innovative strategist; with the help of a very able staff for most of his tenure here he struck gold on some recruits, and most importantly I think unlike the vast number of con-men coaching DI his understated style got the most out of his players. However, the talented staff of assistants moved on and he got VERY complacent, and despite the fact that much of the GDF bashing that goes on here is justified, the AD was his boss and when he said I need you to do X,Y,and Z and Al said, "that's not my job", Gene was justified in showing him the door.

You characterized Donahue perfectly, although I don't know if another year would have mattered- the wheels seemed to totally be coming off last season; granted maybe in part because the squad knew half way through the year that their days were numbered....worse thing I think Donahue did was hand the playmaking to Rahon, the guy's basketball IQ was obviously a bit further along than Hanlan; but to NOT recognize the gulf in physical ability and potential between the two was ridiculous. Hanlan has spent a good part of the season adjusting to being the point guard, which is something that should have happened last year.

Christian and his staff seems to know what they are doing, did their best to swing in Diallo and the 5th year guys on short notice. If you don't recognize the accomplishment getting this group to be competitive in the ACC, then you are missing something. They just don't have the talent on the offensive end. After Hanlan, no one has demonstrated the ability to create a shot for themselves when it counts in crunch time and that is why they hit the wall trying to close out these games.



This is a strong post. Think we are overstating the ability of Coen and Cooley and I am not sure that the decision to swap Hanlan and Rahon was the wrong one at the college level. Playing PG is better for Hanlan personally, but it wasn't better for those teams.
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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby Real Priapus on Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:37 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
JimDog90 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
Mitch {l Wrote}:Donohue wanted to recruit players who could shoot at every position---thus, he didn't recruit for defense or rebounding. Every team needs a couple of bangers, defensive closers and good athletes to get to loose balls. Hopefully, Coach Christian will change that approach.


The only thing I didn't understand was that Donahue didn't really recruit great shooters. :shrug

Don didn't recruit top players (and seemed completely uninterested in doing so). Instead, he supposedly recruited players who fit his system. However, his players never meshed well with one another. Don is a good guy and punched all the boxes with his off-the-court stuff. However, in hindsight, it seems that he really just got lucky with a couple of guys at Cornell who combined with a large recruiting class that matured over 4-years. That said, he probably should have been given one more year to prove himself.


Well said. Regarding Skinner: every Al basher and every Al apologist both make good points; Al had a GREAT run at BC. He was a decent game manager if not an innovative strategist; with the help of a very able staff for most of his tenure here he struck gold on some recruits, and most importantly I think unlike the vast number of con-men coaching DI his understated style got the most out of his players. However, the talented staff of assistants moved on and he got VERY complacent, and despite the fact that much of the GDF bashing that goes on here is justified, the AD was his boss and when he said I need you to do X,Y,and Z and Al said, "that's not my job", Gene was justified in showing him the door.

You characterized Donahue perfectly, although I don't know if another year would have mattered- the wheels seemed to totally be coming off last season; granted maybe in part because the squad knew half way through the year that their days were numbered....worse thing I think Donahue did was hand the playmaking to Rahon, the guy's basketball IQ was obviously a bit further along than Hanlan; but to NOT recognize the gulf in physical ability and potential between the two was ridiculous. Hanlan has spent a good part of the season adjusting to being the point guard, which is something that should have happened last year.

Christian and his staff seems to know what they are doing, did their best to swing in Diallo and the 5th year guys on short notice. If you don't recognize the accomplishment getting this group to be competitive in the ACC, then you are missing something. They just don't have the talent on the offensive end. After Hanlan, no one has demonstrated the ability to create a shot for themselves when it counts in crunch time and that is why they hit the wall trying to close out these games.



This is a strong post. Think we are overstating the ability of Coen and Cooley and I am not sure that the decision to swap Hanlan and Rahon was the wrong one at the college level. Playing PG is better for Hanlan personally, but it wasn't better for those teams.

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Re: Donahue set back program at 2-3 years, maybe more

Postby HJS on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:09 pm

claver2010 {l Wrote}:moj forgot red font

Seriously. Red font has mad everyone lazy.
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