New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:34 pm

claver2010 wrote:
TobaccoRoadEagle wrote:
claver2010 wrote:would definitely check in to see if the hurley in the dessert wants to come back east

hurley a la mode?


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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby eepstein0 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:45 pm

twballgame9 wrote:
BCEagles25 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Recruiting under the current staff has been fine, it just hasn't been deep enough to be any good. They always seem to have one or two decent ACC guards every year, but that is not enough when the rest of the roster stinks. You either need to guys like that at every position or you need some superstars.

I actually don't hate the current roster. They have 4-5 good players. It is not enough. But the coach stinks and they should be more successful than they are with little Langford, Felder, Tabbs and Heath. Mitchell and big Langford are fine bench options. This should be a decent team.


Karnik too. And Rich Kelly is also a fine bench option. This is a perfectly believable NCAA tournament team. 65 fucking teams make that per year. Are there really 65 rosters better than that? What’s strange is Jim Christian has won more games with lesser teams. Probably because they didn’t buzzsaw his ass with a brutal schedule.

They clearly loaded up on the schedule to communicate to JC “You’d have been cooked if not for covid. Here. You can keep your job if you make the NCAA tournament with this schedule.” Jim probably looked at the schedule and was like “Alright. So. I’m fired? Why give a fuck then.”

What would have been far wiser was simply firing Jim and giving the talented roster to a new coach with a normal schedule. Instead, they petty fucked Jim Christian with a barbed dildo which only ended up fucking themselves


Karnik and Kelly should never play with an ACC team and their presence illustrates my point.


Karnik and Kelly are fine end of bench options even in the ACC as a 9th or 10th guy. We clearly don’t deploy them in that role
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby eepstein0 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:47 pm

twballgame9 wrote:
claver2010 wrote:would definitely check in to see if the hurley in the dessert wants to come back east


Hard pass.


BC is a really different deal than URI and ASU
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby Shoreagle on Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:49 pm

eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
claver2010 wrote:would definitely check in to see if the hurley in the dessert wants to come back east


Hard pass.


BC is a really different deal than URI and ASU

Bobby went from assistant at Wagner to Buffalo before ASU. Danny was at URI but your point is well taken. ASU is doing crap this year.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby Onyx Blackman on Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:00 pm

claver2010 wrote:would definitely check in to see if the hurley in the dessert wants to come back east

Why don't you go ahead and advocate for Niagara's coach while you're at it?
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:47 pm

innocentbystander wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:So the geniuses at ESPN say it will likely be Eisley or Schmidt, which makes absolutely no sense on its face. You don’t pull the trigger mid-season if you are going to hire an alum who isn’t a candidate for another big job. Besides which, having spoken to some Bonnies very close to Schmidt, because of the comedic disaster Bates made of Schmidt’s last interview, Schmidt would only take the BC job at this point if he was the only candidate and his interview was a perfunctory formality.


Hmmmmm

2007–08 St. Bonaventure 8–22 2–14 14th
2008–09 St. Bonaventure 15–15 6–10 11th
2009–10 St. Bonaventure 15–16 7–9 8th
2010–11 St. Bonaventure 16–15 8–8 7th CBI First Round
2011–12 St. Bonaventure 20–12 10–6 4th NCAA First Round
2012–13 St. Bonaventure 14–15 7–9 11th
2013–14 St. Bonaventure 18–15 6–10 9th
2014–15 St. Bonaventure 18–13 10–8 T–7th
2015–16 St. Bonaventure 22–9 14–4 T–1st NIT First Round
2016–17 St. Bonaventure 20–12 11–7 5th
2017–18 St. Bonaventure 26–8 14–4 2nd NCAA First Round
2018–19 St. Bonaventure 18–16 12–6 4th
2019–20 St. Bonaventure 19–12 11–7 T–5th
2020–21 St. Bonaventure 10-3 8-3
St. Bonaventure: 236–183 (.563) 123–105 (.539)


Just 2 conference championships in 14 seasons? Meh. Yeah I don't see ANYTHING there that leads me to believe that what Schmidt did (and is currently doing) at St Bonnie's gives us any evidence that he would be a significant upgrade over Jim Christian. The 2017-2018 season, that seemed to be a whole lot of Jaylen Adams and Matt Mobley.

If he can win now, great, hire him today. If he cant recruit more players like Jaylen Adams, hire him. But one or two in 14 years, meh.


Thanks for being you. You never disappoint. He took over a program that won a grand total of 24 games against 88 loses at a school that outside of a three year run in the late 90s under Jim Barron had been a perpetual bottom dweller since Jim O'Brien crushed the program and jumped ship for BC in the early 80s. On top of that, the school was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy and his roster was CAA-level terrible. It also happens to be a school in Olean, NY with an enrollment of less than 2000.

Let me put this in terms you can understand. Bill Coen would win zero conference titles at Bonnies. Bill Coen isn't as good a coach or in the same league as a recruiter. And, no, it wasn't just Jaylen Adams or Matt Mobely, it was Andrew Nicholson, it was Youssou Ndoye--a guy the Spurs would very much like back but who is making north of $8 million in Spain, and it is a dozen other diamonds in the rough that he has found who had CAA and below level offers but who he has turned into good A10 players. Now, because it takes time to climb out of the crater that Bonaventure left itself in, he is landing guys like Osun Osunniyi who selected Bonaventure over Syracuse (you think Coen could talk a 6'11 kid who is a likely NBA player to select Northeasy over Syracuse or even BC). Every school in his conference has more money, a bigger market ands more modern facilities (although the Riley Center is a great basketball venue), and yet they are a top 4 program at this point with Dayton, VCU and Davidson. In relative terms it is the same of BC Basketball becoming a top 4 ACC program alongside Duke, UNC and Virginia and sustaining it for a decade.

Anyway, I don't think Schmidt is right for what we need now, but to look at what he has done at Bonaventure and say meh is IB-level stupid, so at least you didn't undershoot your mark.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby innocentbystander on Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:03 pm

Dick Rosenthal wrote:
innocentbystander wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:So the geniuses at ESPN say it will likely be Eisley or Schmidt, which makes absolutely no sense on its face. You don’t pull the trigger mid-season if you are going to hire an alum who isn’t a candidate for another big job. Besides which, having spoken to some Bonnies very close to Schmidt, because of the comedic disaster Bates made of Schmidt’s last interview, Schmidt would only take the BC job at this point if he was the only candidate and his interview was a perfunctory formality.


Hmmmmm

2007–08 St. Bonaventure 8–22 2–14 14th
2008–09 St. Bonaventure 15–15 6–10 11th
2009–10 St. Bonaventure 15–16 7–9 8th
2010–11 St. Bonaventure 16–15 8–8 7th CBI First Round
2011–12 St. Bonaventure 20–12 10–6 4th NCAA First Round
2012–13 St. Bonaventure 14–15 7–9 11th
2013–14 St. Bonaventure 18–15 6–10 9th
2014–15 St. Bonaventure 18–13 10–8 T–7th
2015–16 St. Bonaventure 22–9 14–4 T–1st NIT First Round
2016–17 St. Bonaventure 20–12 11–7 5th
2017–18 St. Bonaventure 26–8 14–4 2nd NCAA First Round
2018–19 St. Bonaventure 18–16 12–6 4th
2019–20 St. Bonaventure 19–12 11–7 T–5th
2020–21 St. Bonaventure 10-3 8-3
St. Bonaventure: 236–183 (.563) 123–105 (.539)


Just 2 conference championships in 14 seasons? Meh. Yeah I don't see ANYTHING there that leads me to believe that what Schmidt did (and is currently doing) at St Bonnie's gives us any evidence that he would be a significant upgrade over Jim Christian. The 2017-2018 season, that seemed to be a whole lot of Jaylen Adams and Matt Mobley.

If he can win now, great, hire him today. If he cant recruit more players like Jaylen Adams, hire him. But one or two in 14 years, meh.


Thanks for being you. You never disappoint. He took over a program that won a grand total of 24 games against 88 loses at a school that outside of a three year run in the late 90s under Jim Barron had been a perpetual bottom dweller since Jim O'Brien crushed the program and jumped ship for BC in the early 80s. On top of that, the school was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy and his roster was CAA-level terrible. It also happens to be a school in Olean, NY with an enrollment of less than 2000.

Let me put this in terms you can understand. Bill Coen would win zero conference titles at Bonnies. Bill Coen isn't as good a coach or in the same league as a recruiter. And, no, it wasn't just Jaylen Adams or Matt Mobely, it was Andrew Nicholson, it was Youssou Ndoye--a guy the Spurs would very much like back but who is making north of $8 million in Spain, and it is a dozen other diamonds in the rough that he has found who had CAA and below level offers but who he has turned into good A10 players. Now, because it takes time to climb out of the crater that Bonaventure left itself in, he is landing guys like Osun Osunniyi who selected Bonaventure over Syracuse (you think Coen could talk a 6'11 kid who is a likely NBA player to select Northeasy over Syracuse or even BC). Every school in his conference has more money, a bigger market ands more modern facilities (although the Riley Center is a great basketball venue), and yet they are a top 4 program at this point with Dayton, VCU and Davidson. In relative terms it is the same of BC Basketball becoming a top 4 ACC program alongside Duke, UNC and Virginia and sustaining it for a decade.

Anyway, I don't think Schmidt is right for what we need now, but to look at what he has done at Bonaventure and say meh is IB-level stupid, so at least you didn't undershoot your mark.


Dick,

None of what you said is evidence of Schmidt being a good enough coach to warrant a shot coaching one of the 15 teams in the most challenging collegiate basketball conference in the country. All of what you said amounts to St Bonnies totally sucking before Schmidt got there. That is ALL you said. Now they don't suck. They are just average to pretty good in their conference. Like Northeastern.

Yeah I want a hell of a lot better than "average to pretty good in A10" to coach BC in the ACC.

And for the record, Coen has as many NCAA appearances with my Huskies as Schmidt does with your Bonnies. Don't forget that.

Now if BC goes and gets Schmidt, great. I will root for BC and hope he wins a national championship. All I was saying is that Schmidt's body of work in the A10 (far far LESS than the ACC) is very respectable in the A10 but fair to middl'in for division 1 basketball.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby Shoreagle on Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:33 pm

The time to hire Schmidt was when Christian was hired but Bates fucked that up.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:34 pm

I do enjoy when IB brings his condescending stupid over to the sports boards from time to time. Always reminds me of the Costco box score discussion.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby BCEagles25 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:43 pm

The A10 is a “mid major” conference because it does not support major football programs. It is like the Big East. Please make no mistake about it - the A10 and Big East are both major tier basketball conferences. They are uber competitive and annually feature multiple ranked teams. Don’t think so? The Pac-12 is less competitive than those conferences.

The fact Mark Schmidt’s teams can stand out there, but maybe not annually, isn’t that much of a deterrent for me. James Jones is a different story IMO. The Ivy league sucks. If you’re a small fish there, its in a puddle. If you are a small fish in the A10, you are in a small ocean. Schmidt making them competitive is impressive
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby innocentbystander on Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:45 pm

BCEagles25 wrote:The A10 is a “mid major” conference because it does not support major football programs. It is like the Big East. Please make no mistake about it - the A10 and Big East are both major tier basketball conferences. They are uber competitive and annually feature multiple ranked teams. Don’t think so? The Pac-12 is less competitive than those conferences.

The fact Mark Schmidt’s teams can stand out there, but maybe not annually, isn’t that much of a deterrent for me. James Jones is a different story IMO. The Ivy league sucks. If you’re a small fish there, its in a puddle. If you are a small fish in the A10, you are in a small ocean. Schmidt making them competitive is impressive


Okay. I like math and match ups. Its objective. So from an objective sense, I always figured for hoops (in order):

  • ACC
  • Big-XII
  • B1G T(14)N
  • SEC
  • AAC
  • Pac-12
  • Big East
  • Then a REALLY big drop
  • Mountain West
  • West Coast
  • Missouri Valley
  • Then another really big drop all the way down to the middle
  • MAC
  • A10

Yes I agree the A10 is much better than most of the other division 1 conferences, but there are still eleven conferences better than them. If you split college hoops into 3 equal portions, the A10 would be #1 or maybe #2 in the second portion, the middle portion.

If they get Schmidt, great. I hope everything works out for BC. But still I would much rather have a proven winning coach from any team in the other 10 or 11 conferences that I think are quite a bit better than the Atlantic-10.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby BCEagles25 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:05 pm

innocentbystander wrote:
BCEagles25 wrote:The A10 is a “mid major” conference because it does not support major football programs. It is like the Big East. Please make no mistake about it - the A10 and Big East are both major tier basketball conferences. They are uber competitive and annually feature multiple ranked teams. Don’t think so? The Pac-12 is less competitive than those conferences.

The fact Mark Schmidt’s teams can stand out there, but maybe not annually, isn’t that much of a deterrent for me. James Jones is a different story IMO. The Ivy league sucks. If you’re a small fish there, its in a puddle. If you are a small fish in the A10, you are in a small ocean. Schmidt making them competitive is impressive


Okay. I like math and match ups. Its objective. So from an objective sense, I always figured for hoops (in order):

  • ACC
  • Big-XII
  • B1G T(14)N
  • SEC
  • AAC
  • Pac-12
  • Big East
  • Then a REALLY big drop
  • Mountain West
  • West Coast
  • Missouri Valley
  • Then another really big drop all the way down to the middle
  • MAC
  • A10

Yes I agree the A10 is much better than most of the other division 1 conferences, but there are still eleven conferences better than them. If you split college hoops into 3 equal portions, the A10 would be #1 or maybe #2 in the second portion, the middle portion.

If they get Schmidt, great. I hope everything works out for BC. But still I would much rather have a proven winning coach from any team in the other 10 or 11 conferences that I think are quite a bit better than the Atlantic-10.



I’m not sure if there is some confusion, but no, there are not 11 conferences better than the A10. The A10 is in the neighborhood of the SEC (on an avg year), Pac-12, and Big East. If you look at the A10, the names at the top are not always the same, but the names at the top are always formidable. The names at the bottom are usually not far from their days of relevance either.

I’m talking about the A10 - that includes St Bonaventure, URI, Dayton, VCU, Richmond, Davidson, Saint Louis. Even other names on there (George Mason, GW, St Joe’s) have recent periods of relevance.

The AAC - which you mentioned - is also a good comparison for the A10; in terms of depth, ranked teams, quality of play etc
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby innocentbystander on Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:18 pm

BCEagles25 wrote:
innocentbystander wrote:
BCEagles25 wrote:The A10 is a “mid major” conference because it does not support major football programs. It is like the Big East. Please make no mistake about it - the A10 and Big East are both major tier basketball conferences. They are uber competitive and annually feature multiple ranked teams. Don’t think so? The Pac-12 is less competitive than those conferences.

The fact Mark Schmidt’s teams can stand out there, but maybe not annually, isn’t that much of a deterrent for me. James Jones is a different story IMO. The Ivy league sucks. If you’re a small fish there, its in a puddle. If you are a small fish in the A10, you are in a small ocean. Schmidt making them competitive is impressive


Okay. I like math and match ups. Its objective. So from an objective sense, I always figured for hoops (in order):

  • ACC
  • Big-XII
  • B1G T(14)N
  • SEC
  • AAC
  • Pac-12
  • Big East
  • Then a REALLY big drop
  • Mountain West
  • West Coast
  • Missouri Valley
  • Then another really big drop all the way down to the middle
  • MAC
  • A10

Yes I agree the A10 is much better than most of the other division 1 conferences, but there are still eleven conferences better than them. If you split college hoops into 3 equal portions, the A10 would be #1 or maybe #2 in the second portion, the middle portion.

If they get Schmidt, great. I hope everything works out for BC. But still I would much rather have a proven winning coach from any team in the other 10 or 11 conferences that I think are quite a bit better than the Atlantic-10.



I’m not sure if there is some confusion, but no, there are not 11 conferences better than the A10. The A10 is in the neighborhood of the SEC (on an avg year), Pac-12, and Big East. If you look at the A10, the names at the top are not always the same, but the names at the top are always formidable. The names at the bottom are usually not far from their days of relevance either.

I’m talking about the A10 - that includes St Bonaventure, URI, Dayton, VCU, Richmond, Davidson, Saint Louis. Even other names on there (George Mason, GW, St Joe’s) have recent periods of relevance.


No, there is no confusion here, I just disagree with you. I have given you my order of the top twelve division 1 basketball conferences. Atlantic 10 makes that list, at the very bottom. That means (in my opinion) that there are 19 other division 1 conferences that the Atlantic 10 is better than.

If you don't like my order and you think the A10 is somewhere in the neighborhood of the SEC (on an average year) that is your prerogative. You have the Atlantic 10 at 6th or 7th best conference in the country out of 31. I just disagree. I have them at about #12 out of 31. I think an average SEC team (yes 7th or 8th best in the SEC) would defeat the Atlantic 10 champion on a neutral court 7 or 8 games out of 10.

BCEagles25 wrote:The AAC - which you mentioned - is also a good comparison for the A10; in terms of depth, ranked teams, quality of play etc


I think the American conference is excellent. I would argue that the top 3 teams in that conference that did NOT win their tournament, have a legit shot of getting an at-large bid each and every year.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby BCEagles25 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:45 pm

The A10 is having a down year and the SEC is having a strong year, which doesn’t help my opinion. But it shouldn’t surprise anyone to see AAC/Big East/A10 looking better than the Pac-12 a lot of years, and better than the SEC in some years.

The MVC doesn’t have shit on those conferences though. Neither does the Mountain West (though I like them better than MVC) and the WCC is carried by 2 schools. No depth
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby innocentbystander on Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:31 pm

BCEagles25 wrote:The A10 is having a down year and the SEC is having a strong year, which doesn’t help my opinion. But it shouldn’t surprise anyone to see AAC/Big East/A10 looking better than the Pac-12 a lot of years, and better than the SEC in some years.

The MVC doesn’t have shit on those conferences though. Neither does the Mountain West (though I like them better than MVC) and the WCC is carried by 2 schools. No depth


SEC has recent national championship teams in Florida and Kentucky. They are not as strong in hoops as they are in football, but they are damn strong.

Pac-12 is usually just Arizona, Oregon, and (at one time) UCLA. Utah has good teams and Colorado has had some good teams. But you'll usually see Arizona or Oregon at the top in hoops in the weakest of the Power-5 conferences. Mountain West and the West Coast have been pretty powerful for just mediocre conferences. Their OOC performance against the heavies have been respectable. But that is mostly because we are talking the non-Pac 12 traditional powerhouse teams like Utah State, BYU, Boise State, Gonzaga, St Mary's, and San Diego State. Hell I think even UNLV won a national championship once.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:01 pm

innocentbystander wrote:
BCEagles25 wrote:The A10 is having a down year and the SEC is having a strong year, which doesn’t help my opinion. But it shouldn’t surprise anyone to see AAC/Big East/A10 looking better than the Pac-12 a lot of years, and better than the SEC in some years.

The MVC doesn’t have shit on those conferences though. Neither does the Mountain West (though I like them better than MVC) and the WCC is carried by 2 schools. No depth


SEC has recent national championship teams in Florida and Kentucky. They are not as strong in hoops as they are in football, but they are damn strong.

Pac-12 is usually just Arizona, Oregon, and (at one time) UCLA. Utah has good teams and Colorado has had some good teams. But you'll usually see Arizona or Oregon at the top in hoops in the weakest of the Power-5 conferences. Mountain West and the West Coast have been pretty powerful for just mediocre conferences. Their OOC performance against the heavies have been respectable. But that is mostly because we are talking the non-Pac 12 traditional powerhouse teams like Utah State, BYU, Boise State, Gonzaga, St Mary's, and San Diego State. Hell I think even UNLV won a national championship once.


All you are demonstrating right now is you know absolutely nothing about college basketball. The fact that you have the MAC ahead of the A10 is a joke and as 25 accurately points out, the A10 matches up very favorably with the AAC and the SEC. Last year, Dayton would have been one of three favorites to win the National Championship. The notion the MWC or Gonzaga’s conference that consists of Gonzaga and Saint Mary’s and a bunch of garbage that has either never been good or—in the case of USF—was last good in the late 70s is cringe inducing. And as to your point about UNLV, a couple of years ago the third leading scorer at UNLV, Jaylen Poyser, transferred to Bonnies because he wanted to upgrade his competition. Sadly, he couldn’t get in the eight man rotation Schmidt prefers and transferred out after one year. Anyway, your opinion is ill informed, stupid and displays an inability to grasp basic logic, so I guess you are consistent if nothing else.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby ATLeagle on Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:54 pm

Can anyone who has a feel for Pac 12 basketball explain why Randy Bennett has never been hired away from St. Mary's?
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:50 pm

Let's slow the roll on Dayton, dumb though IB may be. The kid that went to the Knicks is terrible.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby Primetime on Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:08 am

Dick Rosenthal wrote: All you are demonstrating right now is you know absolutely nothing about college basketball. The fact that you have the MAC ahead of the A10 is a joke and as 25 accurately points out, the A10 matches up very favorably with the AAC and the SEC.


He's not totally wrong - Kenneth Massey has the MAC East ahead of the A10 (not sure why he has divisions, but whatever).

https://www.masseyratings.com/cb/ncaa-d1/ratings?c=1

Say 10th-best conference in a down year. 7th/8th in a good year.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby innocentbystander on Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:27 am

Primetime wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote: All you are demonstrating right now is you know absolutely nothing about college basketball. The fact that you have the MAC ahead of the A10 is a joke and as 25 accurately points out, the A10 matches up very favorably with the AAC and the SEC.


He's not totally wrong - Kenneth Massey has the MAC East ahead of the A10 (not sure why he has divisions, but whatever).

https://www.masseyratings.com/cb/ncaa-d1/ratings?c=1

Say 10th-best conference in a down year. 7th/8th in a good year.


Thank you primetime. Massey has the A10 at 10th and I have them at 12th out of 31 (or is it 32 now?)

Dick, 12th out of 31 is still pretty good. If you have the Atlantic 10 ahead of both the West Coast Conf and the MWC, fine. I don't. I guess it doesn't really make much difference until any of these conferences send a team to the national championship (if not win it.) As far as I can tell, there is only one team in any of these conferences that has a fair chance and it isn't a team on the East Coast.
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Re: New & Official Coaching Candidates Thread

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:26 am

twballgame9 wrote:Let's slow the roll on Dayton, dumb though IB may be. The kid that went to the Knicks is terrible.


He has been decent at times and not decent at times, but aside from that, last year's Dayton team was well constructed in the mold of the Butler teams circa 2010. they punished some very good teams and their two loses were road OT losses at Kansas and Colorado (and Colorado was on its way to a #4 or #5 seed until the two kids got hurt and they lost their last 5 games to finish 21-11). Dayton was a dead lock cinch for a 1 seed and had a veteran back court to compliment Obi Toppen, the Pride of Ossining.
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