EagleOutsider.com

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:i'll also point out that one of our most successful teams of the last 30 years started with 4 guys that were playing together since their freshman year (and another guy that had a face you just wanted to peg with an iceball). so 4 freshman isn't necessarily a bad thing... as long as one of them is a mcdonalds all-american. seems like a pretty simple recipe to me

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

How about the next VBJ, Mike Sagay, Avery Wilson or Gabe Moton? You’re way more likely to get them than you are the above guys.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

How about the next VBJ, Mike Sagay, Avery Wilson or Gabe Moton? You’re way more likely to get them than you are the above guys.

HJS {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

How about the next VBJ, Mike Sagay, Avery Wilson or Gabe Moton? You’re way more likely to get them than you are the above guys.

My point is that anyone can play the false choice game (e.g. crappy players staying 4 years). There is an equally impossible chance that these guys will be Troy Bell/Craig Smith as it is that they will suck and refuse to leave for 4 years.

BConway {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

So you don't want Thompson, a top 200 recruit, either i guess?

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

BConway {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:i'll also point out that one of our most successful teams of the last 30 years started with 4 guys that were playing together since their freshman year (and another guy that had a face you just wanted to peg with an iceball). so 4 freshman isn't necessarily a bad thing... as long as one of them is a mcdonalds all-american. seems like a pretty simple recipe to me

Thats my point. Build something from the ground up. Its not like we are bringing in 10 unranked freshman this year. Its 3 guys. One is a top 200, another wasnt recruited much probably due to football and the other is a long shot but he grew 4 inches in a year. But instead others want to load the team with useless grad transfers.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

did you need me to tell you how much that costs the school and spends the hard earned donor dollars?

No.

For the record, I would love to have the next Troy Bell, Craig Smith or Jared Dudley. I don’t know how people can say they have no interest in bringing players like that into the program.

If Al Skinner in his 5th year was picking the players, this isn't a discussion. It's a new unknown coach grabbing freshman at the dregs end of a recruiting cycle.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

So you don't want Thompson, a top 200 recruit, either i guess?

Jesus Christ you are dense. No, the good recruits that weren't rushed in by a brand new coach at the end of a recruiting cycle where good recruits like Thompson are already signed are welcome to stay as long as they want. The grad transfer from C of C is welcome to stay as well.

BConway {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

So you don't want Thompson, a top 200 recruit, either i guess?

Jesus Christ you are dense. No, the good recruits that weren't rushed in by a brand new coach at the end of a recruiting cycle where good recruits like Thompson are already signed are welcome to stay as long as they want. The grad transfer from C of C is welcome to stay as well.

I am dense but you said this about the 3 freshman "They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships." So you do want Gianni or no? You are all over the place. Try to stay consistent at least.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Those are not good players. Harley was okay. Beerbohm contributed a little late. 2 of the 3 scholarship players stayed all 4 years and I don't even remember the 3rd. You prove my point.

Pina played because he was the only PG. If the new coach brings in walkons there is no complaint here.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:He can bring in CAA players to fill out the roster if they aren't going to be here four years from now. Roster flexibility is more valuable to a new coach on a rebuild than the stupid concept of roster balance.

Roster balance is not a stupid concept at all but a very necessary part of recruiting. If we only had Thompson coming in as a freshman, JVB and Langford as sophmores and then older Langford as a Junior what would happen when all these grad transfers left? We would have to have a huge freshman class (which certainly would have shitty recruits, because we are BC) or again with the grad transfers. So fast forward another year and we have 7 sophmores who mostly cant play, the other 4 upper classman previously mentioned and no real roster flexibility.

These kids are worth a shot at least. Looks like the guard grew 3-4 inches from year and the other kid is raw but has some talent and athleticism.

Roster balance for the sake of roster balance is moronic. Play kids from the stands over kids on scholarship that play like they came out of the stands.

Again, why is our 22 class going to be better?

If it isn't going to be better, hire a better coach. Because signing a bunch of non ACC level players to keep the roster balance and to make sure you have bodies for the next 4 years is dumb. Much rather see short term solutions until he ramps up recruiting.

If you don't think a coach is going to recruit better with full year and full recruiting cycle than he would be desperately chucking scholarships around in late March after just getting hired, then you think your coach is a shitty recruiter and you dont hire him. I just assume he will identify better players recruiting for BC for a year than he would picking guys from his C of C centric recruiting over the course of two weeks. If thats wrong, don't bother with basketball anymore.

Hopefully everybody is a diamond in the rough.

So your solution this year is another year of picking up the Scott's, Karnik's and Adams of the world. I would rather he pick up these 2 developmental players. The big guy looks like he has a shot to develop and the other kid grew like 4 inches in a year. I would rather these 2 guys over 2 grads that will average 6 and 4

I'd rather not be saddled with 4 year developmental players in a rushed recruiting cycle. Period. At least take some time to look at ACC level recruits before falling back like this and locking up 2 scholarships.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BConway {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:in fairness to conway, he's right about this one. nospace is delusional

Maybe.

I don't have much hope for Grant. I don't have much hope for this program. I have lost faith. And they can't win 18 (and maybe can't win 8.) But I still want them to win.

I want what you want. I don't care how they win. I just think for this team to have any chance to win some games, that is likely only happening with 1-and-done grad transfers, and not frosh.

Part of my point is its only 3 freshman. We have plenty of open spots for transfers. 3 freshman plus Adams, Karnik, the Langfords, the transfer guard, Williams, JVB and Scott is 11. And I have no idea if Karnik, Adams or Scott is returning. Could have like 5 transfer spots still.

They take up three spots for 4 years. Its not only three freshmen, it is 12 years of scholarships.

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Those are not good players. Harley was okay. Beerbohm contributed a little late. 2 of the 3 scholarship players stayed all 4 years and I don't even remember the 3rd. You prove my point.

Pina played because he was the only PG. If the new coach brings in walkons there is no complaint here.

Beerbohm and Harley were very good players. Pretending they were wasted scholarships is stupid.

You didn’t know who Skinner grabbed when he arrived... that’s fine. Argue that Skinner, O’Shea, Coen and Cooley ultimately proved to be among the best evaluators in history and pulling Harley/Beerbohm from the leftover dregs was their first success. Argue that it’s impossible to believe that Grant and his-yet-to-be-hired assistants are unicorns with a similar Midas-touch.

For the record, every coach grabs bodies when they arrive. Don’s was Gabe Moton. Christian’s was Idrissa Diallo. Both were awful, but Diallo represented Christian’s best ranked recruit (Top 125). We all hoped that Diallo would be the start, but he turned out to be the apex (from a stars perspective).

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Those are not good players. Harley was okay. Beerbohm contributed a little late. 2 of the 3 scholarship players stayed all 4 years and I don't even remember the 3rd. You prove my point.

Pina played because he was the only PG. If the new coach brings in walkons there is no complaint here.

Beerbohm and Harley were very good players. Pretending they were wasted scholarships is stupid.

You didn’t know who Skinner grabbed when he arrived... that’s fine. Argue that Skinner, O’Shea, Coen and Cooley ultimately proved to be among the best evaluators in history and pulling Harley/Beerbohm from the leftover dregs was their first success. Argue that it’s impossible to believe that Grant and his-yet-to-be-hired assistants are unicorns with a similar Midas-touch.

For the record, every coach grabs bodies when they arrive. Don’s was Gabe Moton. Christian’s was Idrissa Diallo. Both were awful, but Diallo represented Christian’s best ranked recruit (Top 125). We all hoped that Diallo would be the start, but he turned out to be the apex (from a stars perspective).