EagleOutsider.com

I have yet to hear anything about Vital. The focus is on 4s and 5s.

For better or worse, Graves, JRob, Hicks, Milon and Turner are going to absorb all the perimeter minutes. Reyes and Diallo will play the 5. The staff is right to focus on big men, because I have 0 faith in Owens, Odio 2.0, Sagay or Popovic next year.
2 of those are terrible and the other 2 are complete projects.

Sagay is not a project. He will be a factor next year. The staff feels the same way about Sagay as they do for Graves.

Hoff {l Wrote}:

2014 Eagle {l Wrote}:

longdistanceeagle {l Wrote}:And a pretty solid 5th year 4 man is also in the pipeline.

i have no reason to doubt you. just makes me curious- how early on do coaches start reaching out to potential 5th years? seems a little risky when they are playing for another team at the same time

Not LDE but the coaches arent allowed to recruit the player by talking to them directly. However, the BC coaches certainly talk to the player's former AAU/Prep coaches and/or the Players Parents. A lot of times it's actually a representative from the player who contacts a school to gauge interest. Hell when Donhaue was here Alex Oriahki's dad called BC during the season and told the staff that he was transferring and interested in BC

Interesting, thanks Hoff

Long Distance Eagle, are we still looking at taking another freshman in the class of 2016?

longdistanceeagle {l Wrote}:Sagay is not a project. He will be a factor next year. The staff feels the same way about Sagay as they do for Graves.

Then am I overrating Graves or underrating Sagay? Graves should be an All ACC freshman team member next season (not first team but somewhere on there)

Everyone who's seen Sagay play says incredible athlete but the basketball skill hasn't fully developed (see Owens, Diallo, etc.)

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

longdistanceeagle {l Wrote}:Sagay is not a project. He will be a factor next year. The staff feels the same way about Sagay as they do for Graves.

Then am I overrating Graves or underrating Sagay? Graves should be an All ACC freshman team member next season (not first team but somewhere on there)

Everyone who's seen Sagay play says incredible athlete but the basketball skill hasn't fully developed (see Owens, Diallo, etc.)

Who is this everyone that has seen Sagay play? I don't think I've notice much if anything like that?

They are absolutely still looking at members of 2016. All options are open. And Epstein, you are underrating Sagay. I cannot emphasize how highly they regard him.

I've seen Sagay a few times and will see him again next Wed. JC is super super high on Sagay.

I love his potential especially considering that he has only played hoops a couple of year. I've seen games this year where he is a total non-factor though which makes me doubt he is going to come in next year and be a huge contributor. Hopefully I am wrong

Hoff {l Wrote}:I've seen Sagay a few times and will see him again next Wed. JC is super super high on Sagay.

I love his potential especially considering that he has only played hoops a couple of year. I've seen games this year where he is a total non-factor though which makes me doubt he is going to come in next year and be a huge contributor. Hopefully I am wrong

I'm in this camp. Great athlete still figuring out the basketball thing.

Important to note he gets buried playing at Moore with like 7 other high end D1 prospects

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:For better or worse, Graves, JRob, Hicks, Milon and Turner are going to absorb all the perimeter minutes. Reyes and Diallo will play the 5. The staff is right to focus on big men, because I have 0 faith in Owens, Odio 2.0, Sagay or Popovic next year.
2 of those are terrible and the other 2 are complete projects.

Your hate for owens and Meznieks is hilarious. Also, I think SBT will improve enough to still get decent minutes next year.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

Bender {l Wrote}:If Graves is as good as any of the best recent recruits (i.e. Hanlan, Anderson, Jackson, or Sanders) I think he'll already be the best player on the team next year, kinda like Bell when he was a freshman, just being the leader from day 1.

He's fantastic but remember he's still really small and skinny. Think of a taller version of Jordan Daniels with a better jump shot. He's also a better passer.

Apparently Graves has been in the weight room.

I'm just curious. Why would you value your opinion over the coaches'? The coach at St. Thomas More had a full roster when as a favor they took Sagay. JC's relationship with STM is the reason they took him at the late date. It was explained to JC that their commitment was to the initial roster. He wanted Sagay someplace where he would be coached and given an education to help him qualify and be prepared at college. There is no problem with his playing time and all the feedback from STM is extremely positive.

longdistanceeagle {l Wrote}:I'm just curious. Why would you value your opinion over the coaches'? The coach at St. Thomas More had a full roster when as a favor they took Sagay. JC's relationship with STM is the reason they took him at the late date. It was explained to JC that their commitment was to the initial roster. He wanted Sagay someplace where he would be coached and given an education to help him qualify and be prepared at college. There is no problem with his playing time and all the feedback from STM is extremely positive.

It's not so much valuing a posters opinion over the coaches (especially eepstein), but it should be apparent that: 1) coaches (both HS and College in this case) have an interest in the outcome and so their outward statements about a player may not represent their true thoughts; and 2) coaches are hindered by their recruiting acumen and the status of the program they recruit and so they don't necessarily have ideal options.

E.G. It's possible that Christian would prefer a more polished 4, like the kid who verballed to GW the same approximate time that Sagay verballed to BC, but wouldn't very well come out and say - since the ship has sailed - he'd prefer the GW commit (I realize they are very different players, this is just a hypothetical example).

Based on the little we know as fans about Sagay, Owens does not seem like an entirely inapt comparison. We hear a lot about how they are athletic but they haven't been very productive high school players, each started late and initially played on poor high school teams but went on to play on a very good HS team. Now, if I remember correctly, Owens lost his starting position for Massanutten during his PG year (where there were a ton of D1 commits), so even if there is a legitimate reason Sagay's time is limited it is one more comparison point to what most agree was a recruit that is not what we'd be looking for Sagay to be.

Hoff {l Wrote}:I've seen Sagay a few times and will see him again next Wed. JC is super super high on Sagay.

I love his potential especially considering that he has only played hoops a couple of year. I've seen games this year where he is a total non-factor though which makes me doubt he is going to come in next year and be a huge contributor. Hopefully I am wrong

interesting. what's his stance on weed because we've had this kind of player before...

jbrooks58 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:For better or worse, Graves, JRob, Hicks, Milon and Turner are going to absorb all the perimeter minutes. Reyes and Diallo will play the 5. The staff is right to focus on big men, because I have 0 faith in Owens, Odio 2.0, Sagay or Popovic next year.
2 of those are terrible and the other 2 are complete projects.

Your hate for owens and Meznieks is hilarious. Also, I think SBT will improve enough to still get decent minutes next year.

I forgot about SBT. His ability to create his own shot will hopefully get him on the floor a little more. He needs to find a role on this team, whatever that role is

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

longdistanceeagle {l Wrote}:I'm just curious. Why would you value your opinion over the coaches'? The coach at St. Thomas More had a full roster when as a favor they took Sagay. JC's relationship with STM is the reason they took him at the late date. It was explained to JC that their commitment was to the initial roster. He wanted Sagay someplace where he would be coached and given an education to help him qualify and be prepared at college. There is no problem with his playing time and all the feedback from STM is extremely positive.

It's not so much valuing a posters opinion over the coaches (especially eepstein), but it should be apparent that: 1) coaches (both HS and College in this case) have an interest in the outcome and so their outward statements about a player may not represent their true thoughts; and 2) coaches are hindered by their recruiting acumen and the status of the program they recruit and so they don't necessarily have ideal options.

E.G. It's possible that Christian would prefer a more polished 4, like the kid who verballed to GW the same approximate time that Sagay verballed to BC, but wouldn't very well come out and say - since the ship has sailed - he'd prefer the GW commit (I realize they are very different players, this is just a hypothetical example).

Based on the little we know as fans about Sagay, Owens does not seem like an entirely inapt comparison. We hear a lot about how they are athletic but they haven't been very productive high school players, each started late and initially played on poor high school teams but went on to play on a very good HS team. Now, if I remember correctly, Owens lost his starting position for Massanutten during his PG year (where there were a ton of D1 commits), so even if there is a legitimate reason Sagay's time is limited it is one more comparison point to what most agree was a recruit that is not what we'd be looking for Sagay to be.

This. All of this.

I think Sagay has serious upside, like first round NBA Draft upside. Your boy is going to need to win some games here in the next 2 years to ever see his potential. JC is fine, I realize the limitations he has on recruiting here, so don't take this as a example of me knocking him.

I'm sure he is better than anything BC has at PF right now, but so is the 6'9" pine tree in back of my house.

longdistanceeagle {l Wrote}:I'm just curious. Why would you value your opinion over the coaches'? The coach at St. Thomas More had a full roster when as a favor they took Sagay. JC's relationship with STM is the reason they took him at the late date. It was explained to JC that their commitment was to the initial roster. He wanted Sagay someplace where he would be coached and given an education to help him qualify and be prepared at college. There is no problem with his playing time and all the feedback from STM is extremely positive.

My opinion comes from an assistant at a D1 school and a top AAU Coach in Mass just so we all have our facts straight here. Said AAU is not a fan of BC, but agrees Sagay has crazy upside but maybe not ready to play in the 4 in the ACC quite yet.

As usual take that for what it is worth.

My sources tell me the pine tree is only trying to parlay the BC interest into an offer from a bigger-time school. I say we focus our recruiting efforts on trees that WANT to come to BC.

Corporal Funishment {l Wrote}:My sources tell me the pine tree is only trying to parlay the BC interest into an offer from a bigger-time school. I say we focus our recruiting efforts on trees that WANT to come to BC.

The pine tree appears to be still growing, I expect it'll get more high major offers here fairly soon

I think Graves will be good but definitely not sold on either Sagay or Popovic. And screw the whole thing that it's too hard to recruit at BC. We are a f***ing great school. I left AZ to come to BC and I hadn't even heard of BC before HS. BC has an excellent student community, excellent location, and great academics. Yeah I know the facilities suck and need to improve, but BC still has plenty to sell. During the good Skinner years, basketball was consistently in the NCAA tournament.

Look at the recruiting of Bruce Pearl at Auburn or Avery Johnson at Alabama, both terrible basketball schools.

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:I think Graves will be good but definitely not sold on either Sagay or Popovic. And screw the whole thing that it's too hard to recruit at BC. We are a f***ing great school. I left AZ to come to BC and I hadn't even heard of BC before HS. BC has an excellent student community, excellent location, and great academics. Yeah I know the facilities suck and need to improve, but BC still has plenty to sell. During the good Skinner years, basketball was consistently in the NCAA tournament.

Look at the recruiting of Bruce Pearl at Auburn or Avery Johnson at Alabama, both terrible basketball schools.

This post is insanely stupid. They're coming to play basketball, you went to go to class.

Hire a name brand coach, or accept the basement of the ACC.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:I think Graves will be good but definitely not sold on either Sagay or Popovic. And screw the whole thing that it's too hard to recruit at BC. We are a f***ing great school. I left AZ to come to BC and I hadn't even heard of BC before HS. BC has an excellent student community, excellent location, and great academics. Yeah I know the facilities suck and need to improve, but BC still has plenty to sell. During the good Skinner years, basketball was consistently in the NCAA tournament.

Look at the recruiting of Bruce Pearl at Auburn or Avery Johnson at Alabama, both terrible basketball schools.

This post is insanely stupid. They're coming to play basketball, you went to go to class.

Hire a name brand coach, or accept the basement of the ACC.

You don't have to accept BC being the basement of the ACC, that's bullshit. BC will never be competitive in the ACC if our only recruits are guys that the rest of the ACC doesn't want. You can sell other things BC has that better basketball schools don't have. Good recruits chose weaker programs all the time. If you want a better basketball program, you need better recruits. It's not the other way around.

Good recruiters can recruit no matter where they are and BC has a lot more to sell than other schools.

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:I think Graves will be good but definitely not sold on either Sagay or Popovic. And screw the whole thing that it's too hard to recruit at BC. We are a f***ing great school. I left AZ to come to BC and I hadn't even heard of BC before HS. BC has an excellent student community, excellent location, and great academics. Yeah I know the facilities suck and need to improve, but BC still has plenty to sell. During the good Skinner years, basketball was consistently in the NCAA tournament.

Look at the recruiting of Bruce Pearl at Auburn or Avery Johnson at Alabama, both terrible basketball schools.

This post is insanely stupid. They're coming to play basketball, you went to go to class.

Hire a name brand coach, or accept the basement of the ACC.

Couldn't agree with Eppy more here, insanely stupid post.


And even in your stupid scenario recruits still wouldn't come to BC, they would prefer Harvard, Stanford, Duke, UNC, UVA, etc etc etc et al.

Kids don't give a shit about the school who are Top 100 recruits for the most part. See Cuse and UConn, both terrible schools in terrible places with terrible winters and terribly ugly

These posts have reached a new level of retard. The point is you shouldn't just pitch basketball (the eepstein position) and you shouldn't just pitch academics, otherwise no recruit with options will pick BC. The pitch should include ACC basketball and academics, but also several other factors that taken together make BC the best choice boston, jesuit, community, playing time, etc. It obviously won't win over every recruits but a good recruiter has enough to sell that recruits will pick BC over options with better basketball programs. Look at the top 100 BBall recruits over the years, many are picking weaker (and in some cases much weaker) schools over top programs.

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:These posts have reached a new level of retard. The point is you shouldn't just pitch basketball (the eepstein position) and you shouldn't just pitch academics, otherwise no recruit with options will pick BC. The pitch should include ACC basketball and academics, but also several other factors that taken together make BC the best choice boston, jesuit, community, playing time, etc. It obviously won't win over every recruits but a good recruiter has enough to sell that recruits will pick BC over options with better basketball programs. Look at the top 100 BBall recruits over the years, many are picking weaker (and in some cases much weaker) schools over top programs.

What is your point here? I feel like this post isn't consistent with what you said before

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:These posts have reached a new level of retard. The point is you shouldn't just pitch basketball (the eepstein position) and you shouldn't just pitch academics, otherwise no recruit with options will pick BC. The pitch should include ACC basketball and academics, but also several other factors that taken together make BC the best choice boston, jesuit, community, playing time, etc. It obviously won't win over every recruits but a good recruiter has enough to sell that recruits will pick BC over options with better basketball programs. Look at the top 100 BBall recruits over the years, many are picking weaker (and in some cases much weaker) schools over top programs.

You're clearly don't understand D1 basketball recruiting.

These kids don't give a shit about academics, they'd prefer not to go to class for the most part (I'm talking elite type recruits). They want to play ball, in warm weather generally, around hot girls. If you're nasty at basketball (see UConn or Syracuse), it changed the game a little bit. Georgetown has some built in advantages as well.

BC literally has nothing to sell for basketball, which is why you need a big name coach as the selling point

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:These posts have reached a new level of retard. The point is you shouldn't just pitch basketball (the eepstein position) and you shouldn't just pitch academics, otherwise no recruit with options will pick BC. The pitch should include ACC basketball and academics, but also several other factors that taken together make BC the best choice boston, jesuit, community, playing time, etc. It obviously won't win over every recruits but a good recruiter has enough to sell that recruits will pick BC over options with better basketball programs. Look at the top 100 BBall recruits over the years, many are picking weaker (and in some cases much weaker) schools over top programs.

What is your point here? I feel like this post isn't consistent with what you said before

He's trying (not well) to make the point that BC is a great school that could be attractive to high level D1 athletes. I don't disagree, but the only way you're getting them here is space age facilities (not happening) or a big name coach. They also need to relax the admission standards for athletes, because that scares off some of the bigger name coaches. The discussion with Ben Howland crashed and burned right there. Stanford, Duke, GTown, Nova, etc all do this, it's not that hard. No one is advocating admitting criminals either.

If BC doesn't, then accept what BC is. It's not this shitty but you're not competing for ACC Chpampionships. Decision ultimately the admin of BC needs to make.

The ACC was a very different animal back in the mid 2000s.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:These posts have reached a new level of retard. The point is you shouldn't just pitch basketball (the eepstein position) and you shouldn't just pitch academics, otherwise no recruit with options will pick BC. The pitch should include ACC basketball and academics, but also several other factors that taken together make BC the best choice boston, jesuit, community, playing time, etc. It obviously won't win over every recruits but a good recruiter has enough to sell that recruits will pick BC over options with better basketball programs. Look at the top 100 BBall recruits over the years, many are picking weaker (and in some cases much weaker) schools over top programs.

What is your point here? I feel like this post isn't consistent with what you said before

He's trying (not well) to make the point that BC is a great school that could be attractive to high level D1 athletes. I don't disagree, but the only way you're getting them here is space age facilities (not happening) or a big name coach. They also need to relax the admission standards for athletes, because that scares off some of the bigger name coaches. The discussion with Ben Howland crashed and burned right there. Stanford, Duke, GTown, Nova, etc all do this, it's not that hard. No one is advocating admitting criminals either.

If BC doesn't, then accept what BC is. It's not this shitty but you're not competing for ACC Chpampionships. Decision ultimately the admin of BC needs to make.

The ACC was a very different animal back in the mid 2000s.

Especially for a sport like basketball, its only a few guys a year that require "extra help" getting in. I don't follow basketball recruiting as closely, but I get the impression that academics matter far less in attracting basketball recruits than it does on the football side, and that basketball is a much easier recruiting pitch, and that includes having a good coach/big name making said pitch. Look at the YoY improvement made by VT and Wake Forest, both who hired well known coaching names (Manning more for his playing career, but a name nonetheless)

I think the best comp in conference is Brownell at Clemson. He hasn't recruited at an elite level and isn't a great name, but is in year 6 of his program. BC can get to that level (I think a higher level quite honestly based on the local talent in the area) and have success (altho Clemson is doing it in a down year for the conference) its just going to take time, where as paying Jay Wright would have expedited the process.

BCSUPERFAN22 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:These posts have reached a new level of retard. The point is you shouldn't just pitch basketball (the eepstein position) and you shouldn't just pitch academics, otherwise no recruit with options will pick BC. The pitch should include ACC basketball and academics, but also several other factors that taken together make BC the best choice boston, jesuit, community, playing time, etc. It obviously won't win over every recruits but a good recruiter has enough to sell that recruits will pick BC over options with better basketball programs. Look at the top 100 BBall recruits over the years, many are picking weaker (and in some cases much weaker) schools over top programs.

What is your point here? I feel like this post isn't consistent with what you said before

He's trying (not well) to make the point that BC is a great school that could be attractive to high level D1 athletes. I don't disagree, but the only way you're getting them here is space age facilities (not happening) or a big name coach. They also need to relax the admission standards for athletes, because that scares off some of the bigger name coaches. The discussion with Ben Howland crashed and burned right there. Stanford, Duke, GTown, Nova, etc all do this, it's not that hard. No one is advocating admitting criminals either.

If BC doesn't, then accept what BC is. It's not this shitty but you're not competing for ACC Chpampionships. Decision ultimately the admin of BC needs to make.

The ACC was a very different animal back in the mid 2000s.

Especially for a sport like basketball, its only a few guys a year that require "extra help" getting in. I don't follow basketball recruiting as closely, but I get the impression that academics matter far less in attracting basketball recruits than it does on the football side, and that basketball is a much easier recruiting pitch, and that includes having a good coach/big name making said pitch. Look at the YoY improvement made by VT and Wake Forest, both who hired well known coaching names (Manning more for his playing career, but a name nonetheless)

I think the best comp in conference is Brownell at Clemson. He hasn't recruited at an elite level and isn't a great name, but is in year 6 of his program. BC can get to that level (I think a higher level quite honestly based on the local talent in the area) and have success (altho Clemson is doing it in a down year for the conference) its just going to take time, where as paying Jay Wright would have expedited the process.

Has Clemson been to the NCAAs under Brownell? I think the year they stomped BC in the ACCT they went and lost to Michigan or West Virginia or something. Was in Greensboro for that one, talk about a depressing experience