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claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

i think it's okay to say that now but god forbide you suggested it 3 years ago (when the most perceptive of us realized the muppet had no clothes)

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

i think it's okay to say that now but god forbide you suggested it 3 years ago (when the most perceptive of us realized the muppet had no clothes)

Yeah, but the more most perceptive of us realized that a Donahue coached team w/ a healthy Dennis Clifford is a final four team, which we never saw and therefore can never be proved wrong.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

i think it's okay to say that now but god forbide you suggested it 3 years ago (when the most perceptive of us realized the muppet had no clothes)

Yeah, but the more most perceptive of us realized that a Donahue coached team w/ a healthy Dennis Clifford is a final four team, which we never saw and therefore can never be proved wrong.

so basically you're doing sex at mo'j now?

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

No. The success he had at Cornell, including a Sweet 16, blows anything Spaz did as head coach out of the water.

Also, Donahue inherited a team with a losing record and took those same players (minus Rakim) and won over 20 games in his first year. With Spaz, the team regressed the second he took over.

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

No. The success he had at Cornell, including a Sweet 16, blows anything Spaz did as head coach out of the water.

Also, Donahue inherited a team with a losing record and took those same players (minus Rakim) and won over 20 games in his first year. With Spaz, the team regressed the second he took over.

I believe that Spaz took Jags' players without Chris Crane and won 8 games and went to the Nut Bowl to play USC.

Just saying

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

No. The success he had at Cornell, including a Sweet 16, blows anything Spaz did as head coach out of the water.

Also, Donahue inherited a team with a losing record and took those same players (minus Rakim) and won over 20 games in his first year. With Spaz, the team regressed the second he took over.

I believe that Spaz took Jags' players without Chris Crane and won 8 games and went to the Nut Bowl to play USC

Which is not as good as 9 wins and an ACC Championship game appearance. So...they got worse. Also, in the first year of Spaz one must highlight 51 yards of offense against Clemson and another complete turtling against VT. That team was not very good.

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

No. The success he had at Cornell, including a Sweet 16, blows anything Spaz did as head coach out of the water.

Also, Donahue inherited a team with a losing record and took those same players (minus Rakim) and won over 20 games in his first year. With Spaz, the team regressed the second he took over.

I believe that Spaz took Jags' players without Chris Crane and won 8 games and went to the Nut Bowl to play USC

Which is not as good as 9 wins and an ACC Championship game appearance. So...they got worse. Also, in the first year of Spaz one must highlight 51 yards of offense against Clemson and another complete turtling against VT. That team was not very good.

And yet it won 8 games.

I don't disagree that Spaz sucked ass, just that Don's first season wasn't any great shakes. Takes a year or two for the shit too fall to the bottom of the bowl, and they both did.

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

No. The success he had at Cornell, including a Sweet 16, blows anything Spaz did as head coach out of the water.

Also, Donahue inherited a team with a losing record and took those same players (minus Rakim) and won over 20 games in his first year. With Spaz, the team regressed the second he took over.

I believe that Spaz took Jags' players without Chris Crane and won 8 games and went to the Nut Bowl to play USC

Which is not as good as 9 wins and an ACC Championship game appearance. So...they got worse. Also, in the first year of Spaz one must highlight 51 yards of offense against Clemson and another complete turtling against VT. That team was not very good.

Donahue sucked the big one. He was just as bad as Spazoo.

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

No. The success he had at Cornell, including a Sweet 16, blows anything Spaz did as head coach out of the water.

Also, Donahue inherited a team with a losing record and took those same players (minus Rakim) and won over 20 games in his first year. With Spaz, the team regressed the second he took over.

I believe that Spaz took Jags' players without Chris Crane and won 8 games and went to the Nut Bowl to play USC

Which is not as good as 9 wins and an ACC Championship game appearance. So...they got worse. Also, in the first year of Spaz one must highlight 51 yards of offense against Clemson and another complete turtling against VT. That team was not very good.

Donahue sucked the big one. He was just as bad as Spazoo.

What a stupid and pointless discussion. They both sucked and left our programs much less than respectable.

If it is stupid and pointless, why express your opinion?

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

No. The success he had at Cornell, including a Sweet 16, blows anything Spaz did as head coach out of the water.

Also, Donahue inherited a team with a losing record and took those same players (minus Rakim) and won over 20 games in his first year. With Spaz, the team regressed the second he took over.

I believe that Spaz took Jags' players without Chris Crane and won 8 games and went to the Nut Bowl to play USC

Which is not as good as 9 wins and an ACC Championship game appearance. So...they got worse. Also, in the first year of Spaz one must highlight 51 yards of offense against Clemson and another complete turtling against VT. That team was not very good.

Donahue sucked the big one. He was just as bad as Spazoo.

What a stupid and pointless discussion. They both sucked and left our programs much less than respectable.

If it is stupid and pointless, why express your opinion?

he's a politician in training

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

No. The success he had at Cornell, including a Sweet 16, blows anything Spaz did as head coach out of the water.

Also, Donahue inherited a team with a losing record and took those same players (minus Rakim) and won over 20 games in his first year. With Spaz, the team regressed the second he took over.

I believe that Spaz took Jags' players without Chris Crane and won 8 games and went to the Nut Bowl to play USC

Which is not as good as 9 wins and an ACC Championship game appearance. So...they got worse. Also, in the first year of Spaz one must highlight 51 yards of offense against Clemson and another complete turtling against VT. That team was not very good.

Donahue sucked the big one. He was just as bad as Spazoo.

Let me remind you that in the fourth and final year of Spaz, we had two wins. The one win over a FBS team was a squeaker against Maryland, at home, when they were playing their 4th string QB who was playing out of position. That team was an absolute disgrace. In Donahue's fourth and final season, he at least won on the road at #1 Cuse (at the time). They were both bad, but Spaz was so much worse. Also, Donahue didn't punch assistants.

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

No. The success he had at Cornell, including a Sweet 16, blows anything Spaz did as head coach out of the water.

Also, Donahue inherited a team with a losing record and took those same players (minus Rakim) and won over 20 games in his first year. With Spaz, the team regressed the second he took over.

I believe that Spaz took Jags' players without Chris Crane and won 8 games and went to the Nut Bowl to play USC

Which is not as good as 9 wins and an ACC Championship game appearance. So...they got worse. Also, in the first year of Spaz one must highlight 51 yards of offense against Clemson and another complete turtling against VT. That team was not very good.

Donahue sucked the big one. He was just as bad as Spazoo.

Let me remind you that in the fourth and final year of Spaz, we had two wins. The one win over a FBS team was a squeaker against Maryland, at home, when they were playing their 4th string QB who was playing out of position. That team was an absolute disgrace. In Donahue's fourth and final season, he at least won on the road at #1 Cuse (at the time). They were both bad, but Spaz was so much worse. Also, Donahue didn't punch assistants.

He just whistled them deaf.

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:it's remarkable how bad donahue & staff were at coaching d

I know I'll ruffle some feathers by evoking Spaz's name in the context of talking about Onahue, but it appears we were dealing with a Spaz level of ineptitude.

This is an awful comparison. Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year.

We also knew Spaz was a disaster

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

This is more how I remember it.

Also, how could they have been in the right direction with Donahue's inability to recruit ACC caliber talent?

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

His recruiting was a joke but he can coach. Spaz does neither well

As far as I'm concerned both Al's and Donahue's last teams underperformed. Donahue came in and the team improved as far as record, but in retrospect that may have been simply regression to the mean / benefit of a shake up more so than anything Donahue himself brought as a coach. Christian thus far has looked better than Donahue last year, but I think it's too early to say he's a better coach. Last year's team massively underperformed and I think there were several reasons for that but ultimately the team was better than its 8-24 record (they went 15-17 the previous year with the same players). Also remember that we lost MANY close games last year that could have reasonably gone either way. Is our improvement this year so far regression to the 15-17 level we were playing at before? Or is it better coaching? Jury's still out for me. Recruiting is clearly better, though.

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

In looking at Donahue, I look at his whole career as a head coach, not just at BC. Kind of like how you bring up 4-8 at Temple for Addazio, I look at three straight Ivy League titles and a Sweet 16 appearance for Donahue. He clearly could do some things right. Spaz on the other hand was completely incompetent, had numerous players transfer out, and was extremely close to being 0-fer against FBS competition in his last year. He was the worst coach evah.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

His recruiting was a joke but he can coach. Spaz does neither well

He can coach as long as it is not defense or effective offense. He's like the Celtics' version of Jim O'Brien - his genius is "stand around and shoot". If they are good shooters, he's a fucking genius.

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

In looking at Donahue, I look at his whole career as a head coach, not just at BC. Kind of like how you bring up 4-8 at Temple for Addazio, I look at three straight Ivy League titles and a Sweet 16 appearance for Donahue. He clearly could do some things right. Spaz on the other hand was completely incompetent, had numerous players transfer out, and was extremely close to being 0-fer against FBS competition in his last year. He was the worst coach evah.

You aren't looking at his whole career. He was abysmal at Cornell for 6 season - took him a decade to get where he was. Had Cornell been a real school, he would have been fired long before he had a chance to make a sweet 16 run

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

His recruiting was a joke but he can coach. Spaz does neither well

He can coach as long as it is not defense or effective offense. He's like the Celtics' version of Jim O'Brien - his genius is "stand around and shoot". If they are good shooters, he's a fucking genius.

Don's offense was actually quite efficient and I think that reflects his abilities as an offensive coach. The fatal flaw was the inability to recruit players who could both shoot AND defend/rebound. He only got the shooting part. It doesn't matter how efficient your offense is when the other team can just keep getting offensive rebounds until it scores.

Corporal Funishment {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

His recruiting was a joke but he can coach. Spaz does neither well

He can coach as long as it is not defense or effective offense. He's like the Celtics' version of Jim O'Brien - his genius is "stand around and shoot". If they are good shooters, he's a fucking genius.

Don's offense was actually quite efficient and I think that reflects his abilities as an offensive coach. The fatal flaw was the inability to recruit players who could both shoot AND defend/rebound. He only got the shooting part. It doesn't matter how efficient your offense is when the other team can just keep getting offensive rebounds until it scores.

Part of that is the talent, sure, but part of that is the shitty design of the offense, with 5 guys running around the perimeter looking for open threes. Can't offensive rebound from 20 feet away.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

Corporal Funishment {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

His recruiting was a joke but he can coach. Spaz does neither well

He can coach as long as it is not defense or effective offense. He's like the Celtics' version of Jim O'Brien - his genius is "stand around and shoot". If they are good shooters, he's a fucking genius.

Don's offense was actually quite efficient and I think that reflects his abilities as an offensive coach. The fatal flaw was the inability to recruit players who could both shoot AND defend/rebound. He only got the shooting part. It doesn't matter how efficient your offense is when the other team can just keep getting offensive rebounds until it scores.

Part of that is the talent, sure, but part of that is the shitty design of the offense, with 5 guys running around the perimeter looking for open threes. Can't offensive rebound from 20 feet away.

My point was that the offense wasn't the problem. The offense put up numbers consistent with those of a good team. It was the defense that was god-awful. I don't think the two were related outside of the reality of Don's recruiting priorities.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

His recruiting was a joke but he can coach. Spaz does neither well

He can coach as long as it is not defense or effective offense. He's like the Celtics' version of Jim O'Brien - his genius is "stand around and shoot". If they are good shooters, he's a fucking genius.

this. i'd like to go back to some of the game threads from 3ish years ago and see how many comments fall in line with the sentiment that he was a good coach.

a good coach recognizes defense is a major part of the team's requirement and works around his talent shortfalls rather than damning the torpedos and forging ahead. al's "tight flex" was ugly, boring and nerve-wracking to watch... but it was born of necessity based on the "athletes" that he had on the court. beeker had no such gear, thought or ability

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:... Donahue tried and it seemed they were headed in the right direction until last year...

revisionist history bullshit. you've been using your rebel yell "AMERICA EAST" for years now.

donahue sucked early and sucked consistently with brief exception of unexplained victory. beeker was a whistling windowlicker that should have been identified as a moron by many more herein well before it was identified.

His recruiting was a joke but he can coach. Spaz does neither well

He can coach as long as it is not defense or effective offense. He's like the Celtics' version of Jim O'Brien - his genius is "stand around and shoot". If they are good shooters, he's a fucking genius.

this. i'd like to go back to some of the game threads from 3ish years ago and see how many comments fall in line with the sentiment that he was a good coach.

a good coach recognizes defense is a major part of the team's requirement and works around his talent shortfalls rather than damning the torpedos and forging ahead. al's "tight flex" was ugly, boring and nerve-wracking to watch... but it was born of necessity based on the "athletes" that he had on the court. beeker had no such gear, thought or ability

The flex is boring as shit, but it has been an effective offense since peach baskets.

I don't care if Donahue sucked more because of recruiting or in game coaching, but one thing that was crystal clear is that his offense does not work without shooters and he didn't have shooters and he clearly was bad at finding them.

It could be that slow unathletic guys can't get their shot in the ACC so even if he had a better eye for talent things would not have worked better; or, it could be that Jackson/Heckmann/Rahon/Drago/Odio are just bad examples of the Donahue Whitman/Dale/Wroblewski prototype.

Most likely it was simply the absence of a healthy Dennis Clifford.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:Most likely it was simply the absence of a healthy Dennis Clifford.

Finally, something we can all agree on.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I don't care if Donahue sucked more because of recruiting or in game coaching, but one thing that was crystal clear is that his offense does not work without shooters and he didn't have shooters and he clearly was bad at finding them.

The offense last year was quite good. It was well above average. Considering the lack of talent/athleticism, Don's job on the offensive end was admirable and the offense worked fine. The terrible defense was the problem.

Corporal Funishment {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I don't care if Donahue sucked more because of recruiting or in game coaching, but one thing that was crystal clear is that his offense does not work without shooters and he didn't have shooters and he clearly was bad at finding them.

The offense last year was quite good. It was well above average. Considering the lack of talent/athleticism, Don's job on the offensive end was admirable and the offense worked fine. The terrible defense was the problem.

The offense wasn't good Kenpom. Spare me the efficiency arguments. They shot like shit.