Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby BCEagles25 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:12 am

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:And people wonder why we can't recruit...Jesus christ...most high schools have a better atmosphere.


Most high schools have better teams.


no


dammit 14 year old, that is my gimmick and not only that I did it already.


I was almost certain no was a word, not a gimmick. and you said something else. and you stink.


I hope your proactiv gets delivered to the wrong house right before prom.


i hope your rogaine gets delivered to your house and your children see it and laugh.


This was pretty good, I probably would have gone with an ED medication, but Rogaine works too. Did you have some kind of major medical procedure between your kb25 posting career and your current iteration?

Image


speaking of medical procedures, have you gotten your vasectomy yet? or do they just kind of euthanize you after you get past a certain age?


eh, now you're doubling down on the same theme too much, loses something, bored.


now you know how I feel.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:13 am

BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:sarcasm and dry humor is my schtick. that's been established for years.


No.


you're supposed to leave the n lowercase. the period is optional. the idea is to put the least amount of effort into the statement possible while utterly rejecting their tom foolery. and you can't even do that right with a two letter word like "no." what are you, new?


I was just giving it a test run, to see if it made me feel as clever as you think it makes you feel. I'll get the hang of it, I promise.


don't bother, just resume your usual air of superiority and we'll all just play along. also, you stink too.



If you were playing along, you would have realized it had never been interrupted.


let's be serious, armageddon couldn't interrupt it.


yes
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby Iggle on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:13 am

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
Iggle {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I don't know if attendance was the reason Skinner was fired, it certainly was mentioned here and on the predecessor board. Personally, I no longer believe winning will cure our fan ills. The students suck too much. Just my opinion. Nerds. Also nice strangely thrown race card, you're the coolest.



Some how these nerds broke a student ticket request record at the garden for the beanpot a couple of weeks ago.

This program hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since half of the student body was in elementary school. Obviously if i was still a student id go but I also waste hours everyday on bc message boards


So its not just winning we need, its national championship expectations? Got it.


That's what you got from that?


Not just from that, but as I said in the post right below your last one, my freshman year was almost identical to the current BC basketball season in terms of expectations, wins and losses, previous year, new coach etc. We never had a fan turnout like last night. Then you point out that the beanpot was packed. My retort is that the nerds can take a few hours removed from O'Neill to support the defending championship hockey team but are not going to watch basketball unless it is a truly special season and that sucks. It's more than winning and it makes it harder to get to winning.


Attendance in 08 was good, if I remember correctly, and there were no national championship aspirations. I think the addition of ND, Syracuse, Louisville and Pitt will do good things for attendance (but probably bad things for the W-L)


I would posit that the current student body is a much worse group than those in 08 which is a much worse group than 4 years prior and you can keep doing that for a couple more 4 year periods.


The current crop of students has never seen an NCAA tournament game (though honestly I think 2010 was a snub). I promise you, as a recent graduate, there are a TON of kids who go to BC who aren't nerdy. Lots of them. They don't come to the games, either. No one goes to games because BC is not viewed as a consistent basketball winner so people just don't care. It's the third sport behind hockey at this point.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby pick6pedro on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:13 am

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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:14 am

BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:And people wonder why we can't recruit...Jesus christ...most high schools have a better atmosphere.


Most high schools have better teams.


no


dammit 14 year old, that is my gimmick and not only that I did it already.


I was almost certain no was a word, not a gimmick. and you said something else. and you stink.


I hope your proactiv gets delivered to the wrong house right before prom.


i hope your rogaine gets delivered to your house and your children see it and laugh.


This was pretty good, I probably would have gone with an ED medication, but Rogaine works too. Did you have some kind of major medical procedure between your kb25 posting career and your current iteration?

Image


speaking of medical procedures, have you gotten your vasectomy yet? or do they just kind of euthanize you after you get past a certain age?


eh, now you're doubling down on the same theme too much, loses something, bored.


now you know how I feel.


Incorrect, there are two themes you have to deal with 1) how you used to be really, really, really stupid; and 2) you being in high school.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:21 am

Iggle {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
Iggle {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I don't know if attendance was the reason Skinner was fired, it certainly was mentioned here and on the predecessor board. Personally, I no longer believe winning will cure our fan ills. The students suck too much. Just my opinion. Nerds. Also nice strangely thrown race card, you're the coolest.



Some how these nerds broke a student ticket request record at the garden for the beanpot a couple of weeks ago.

This program hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since half of the student body was in elementary school. Obviously if i was still a student id go but I also waste hours everyday on bc message boards


So its not just winning we need, its national championship expectations? Got it.


That's what you got from that?


Not just from that, but as I said in the post right below your last one, my freshman year was almost identical to the current BC basketball season in terms of expectations, wins and losses, previous year, new coach etc. We never had a fan turnout like last night. Then you point out that the beanpot was packed. My retort is that the nerds can take a few hours removed from O'Neill to support the defending championship hockey team but are not going to watch basketball unless it is a truly special season and that sucks. It's more than winning and it makes it harder to get to winning.


Attendance in 08 was good, if I remember correctly, and there were no national championship aspirations. I think the addition of ND, Syracuse, Louisville and Pitt will do good things for attendance (but probably bad things for the W-L)


I would posit that the current student body is a much worse group than those in 08 which is a much worse group than 4 years prior and you can keep doing that for a couple more 4 year periods.


The current crop of students has never seen an NCAA tournament game (though honestly I think 2010 was a snub). I promise you, as a recent graduate, there are a TON of kids who go to BC who aren't nerdy. Lots of them. They don't come to the games, either. No one goes to games because BC is not viewed as a consistent basketball winner so people just don't care. It's the third sport behind hockey at this point.


This is not the first time BC basketball has sucked, but it is the worst the students have ever sucked at attending games though. I'm not saying that if we start playing well next year and come out of the gate 10-0 there won't be a pickup in attendance. I am saying it will go away again the second there is a disappointing loss or a poor stretch of games.

Its impossible to support with facts but I believe hard to seriously argue against that the 200 pt jump in avg. SATs over the last decade has something to do with this.

Short version, go on and play Harry Butthole Pussy Potter NERDS.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:23 am

I hate to agree with him, but these fans are pathetic. Even when BC was bad, there were hard core weirdos. That said, this is pretty much a god awful underachieving team, so while I would attend this misery anyway if I were a student, I get why no one wants to watch. It's hard not to turn the channel during their games.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby BCEagles25 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:26 am

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
now you know how I feel.


Incorrect, there are two themes you have to deal with 1) how you used to be really, really, really stupid; and 2) you being in high school.


kb2525 was before my time (and before you say "so was George W. Bush"...) so the stupid thing kind of eliminates itself... unless you mean I used to be stupid. I guess I'm too stupid and young to figure out your reference.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby Iggle on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:27 am

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
Iggle {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
Iggle {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I don't know if attendance was the reason Skinner was fired, it certainly was mentioned here and on the predecessor board. Personally, I no longer believe winning will cure our fan ills. The students suck too much. Just my opinion. Nerds. Also nice strangely thrown race card, you're the coolest.



Some how these nerds broke a student ticket request record at the garden for the beanpot a couple of weeks ago.

This program hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since half of the student body was in elementary school. Obviously if i was still a student id go but I also waste hours everyday on bc message boards


So its not just winning we need, its national championship expectations? Got it.


That's what you got from that?


Not just from that, but as I said in the post right below your last one, my freshman year was almost identical to the current BC basketball season in terms of expectations, wins and losses, previous year, new coach etc. We never had a fan turnout like last night. Then you point out that the beanpot was packed. My retort is that the nerds can take a few hours removed from O'Neill to support the defending championship hockey team but are not going to watch basketball unless it is a truly special season and that sucks. It's more than winning and it makes it harder to get to winning.


Attendance in 08 was good, if I remember correctly, and there were no national championship aspirations. I think the addition of ND, Syracuse, Louisville and Pitt will do good things for attendance (but probably bad things for the W-L)


I would posit that the current student body is a much worse group than those in 08 which is a much worse group than 4 years prior and you can keep doing that for a couple more 4 year periods.


The current crop of students has never seen an NCAA tournament game (though honestly I think 2010 was a snub). I promise you, as a recent graduate, there are a TON of kids who go to BC who aren't nerdy. Lots of them. They don't come to the games, either. No one goes to games because BC is not viewed as a consistent basketball winner so people just don't care. It's the third sport behind hockey at this point.


This is not the first time BC basketball has sucked, but it is the worst the students have ever sucked at attending games though. I'm not saying that if we start playing well next year and come out of the gate 10-0 there won't be a pickup in attendance. I am saying it will go away again the second there is a disappointing loss or a poor stretch of games.

Its impossible to support with facts but I believe hard to seriously argue against that the 200 pt jump in avg. SATs over the last decade has something to do with this.

Short version, go on and play Harry Butthole Pussy Potter NERDS.


I get why you think that, but in my experience, the hardest kids to get to show up to a BC sports game were the dumbass legacy kids. trust me on this. They wouldn't be caught dead at a BC basketball game.

For what it's worth, the numbers for attendance I've found (not student attendance) have BC holding steady around 5,400 for the majority of the last decade, with a few <5,000 seasons in there corresponding to the worst teams.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:28 am

was kb25 the "I like basketball. do you like basketball?" guy?
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby BCEagles25 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:28 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:sarcasm and dry humor is my schtick. that's been established for years.


No.


you're supposed to leave the n lowercase. the period is optional. the idea is to put the least amount of effort into the statement possible while utterly rejecting their tom foolery. and you can't even do that right with a two letter word like "no." what are you, new?


I was just giving it a test run, to see if it made me feel as clever as you think it makes you feel. I'll get the hang of it, I promise.


don't bother, just resume your usual air of superiority and we'll all just play along. also, you stink too.



If you were playing along, you would have realized it had never been interrupted.


let's be serious, armageddon couldn't interrupt it.


yes


gold sticker for you.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:33 am

BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:sarcasm and dry humor is my schtick. that's been established for years.


No.


you're supposed to leave the n lowercase. the period is optional. the idea is to put the least amount of effort into the statement possible while utterly rejecting their tom foolery. and you can't even do that right with a two letter word like "no." what are you, new?


I was just giving it a test run, to see if it made me feel as clever as you think it makes you feel. I'll get the hang of it, I promise.


don't bother, just resume your usual air of superiority and we'll all just play along. also, you stink too.



If you were playing along, you would have realized it had never been interrupted.


let's be serious, armageddon couldn't interrupt it.


yes


gold sticker for you.


I'll put it with the others, thanks.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby eepstein0 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:48 am

claver2010 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I don't know if attendance was the reason Skinner was fired, it certainly was mentioned here and on the predecessor board. Personally, I no longer believe winning will cure our fan ills. The students suck too much. Just my opinion. Nerds. Also nice strangely thrown race card, you're the coolest.



Some how these nerds broke a student ticket request record at the garden for the beanpot a couple of weeks ago.

This program hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since half of the student body was in elementary school. Obviously if i was still a student id go but I also waste hours everyday on bc message boards


This is the best analysis Ive seen here in a while.

And this team does stink, last night only did more to confirm that in my mind
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby HJS on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:55 am

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:For all the serious Interwebbing hoops weirdos, let me make myself clearer. The fan support is pretty much reflective of the product on the floor.

Now resume seriousness.


Seriousness resumed in earnest:

No. Skinner's third year, which happened to be my freshman year was coming off a 6-21 season and had identical total win totals and conference win totals to this years team. There was never a crowd as embarrassing as last nights. The nerds are worse than ever. This cannot be denied.

No matter what you say about Skinner or Don, Skinner walked into one of the most toxic situations in BC basketball history. There was the admissions scandal... there was Obie suing the school claiming racism as his waltzed to OSU... there was the entire coaching staff supposedly telling every current BB player to transfer as they didn't know what BC would do with its BB program (even eluded to it being shutting down)... then, they were telling every local school to never send kids.. etc.

It is entirely possible that the students back in Skinner's early days were rallying to support the program. Whereas, there has been no tangible progress under Don from what was the best run BC BB has ever seen (under Skinner). For instance, when Cedorchuck replaced Ciglarski, BC Hockey had regular attendances worse than last night. Same will happen if York's successor sucks as bad.

Again, I like Don... but the combo of no W/L improvement, no fans and no major recruits for people to get excited for... is a recipe for termination. I don't think it happens this year, but next year he will be talked about being on a Spaz-like hot-seat... which will make it THAT much harder for him to successfully recruit top players. It's a vicious cycle that I thought he would start breaking out of through winning this year. He hasn't. That's disappointing for the few fans left and is precarious for his career.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby DavidGordonsFoot on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:57 am

BCEagles25 {l Wrote}:speaking of medical procedures, have you gotten your vasectomy yet? or do they just kind of euthanize you after you get past a certain age?


Come fill in for me for a week at my house. We have two teenagers and an eight-year old, and my wife runs her own business. You'll be volunteering for a vasectomy by the time they're through with you.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:09 am

HJS {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:For all the serious Interwebbing hoops weirdos, let me make myself clearer. The fan support is pretty much reflective of the product on the floor.

Now resume seriousness.


Seriousness resumed in earnest:

No. Skinner's third year, which happened to be my freshman year was coming off a 6-21 season and had identical total win totals and conference win totals to this years team. There was never a crowd as embarrassing as last nights. The nerds are worse than ever. This cannot be denied.

No matter what you say about Skinner or Don, Skinner walked into one of the most toxic situations in BC basketball history. There was the admissions scandal... there was Obie suing the school claiming racism as his waltzed to OSU... there was the entire coaching staff supposedly telling every current BB player to transfer as they didn't know what BC would do with its BB program (even eluded to it being shutting down)... then, they were telling every local school to never send kids.. etc.

It is entirely possible that the students back in Skinner's early days were rallying to support the program. Whereas, there has been no tangible progress under Don from what was the best run BC BB has ever seen (under Skinner). For instance, when Cedorchuck replaced Ciglarski, BC Hockey had regular attendances worse than last night. Same will happen if York's successor sucks as bad.

Again, I like Don... but the combo of no W/L improvement, no fans and no major recruits for people to get excited for... is a recipe for termination. I don't think it happens this year, but next year he will be talked about being on a Spaz-like hot-seat... which will make it THAT much harder for him to successfully recruit top players. It's a vicious cycle that I thought he would start breaking out of through winning this year. He hasn't. That's disappointing for the few fans left and is precarious for his career.


As I see it this board breaks down into people who don't like Donahue for a couple reasons, with some crossover:

1) they are Skinner ballwashers who either are reacting to Skinner bashers or just liked Skinner more than BC basketball or wanted a Skinner assistant or think we'd have been better off in year 16 of Skinner;
2) they hate GDF;
3) they blame donahue for a complete restart from nothing and believe it could have been a more gradual transition;
4) they are fundamentally against losing ever, despite circumstances; and
5) they actually think this team stinks or Donahue is a bad coach and will not improve to an acceptable level.

There are probably more categories and certainly there are breakdowns within each one. I think there is a lot of 2) that gets misplaced in 1), 3) and probably 4). There are also a lot of people who claims to be 5) but are really one or more of the others.

This isn't really responsive to the post above it. So I'll tack on, Donahue is most likely really, really far away from the hot seat outside of fan opinion.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby commavegarage on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:13 am

its all comes down to winning and looking good doing it:

hockey does it, attendance is through the roof, beanpot records, expanded student section on a permanent basis etc.
basketball does neither, attendance is putrid.
football used to and the student section would be packed and loud. now it doesnt and youd be lucky to see a half full student section towards the end of the year.

its not that complicated.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:20 am

commavegarage {l Wrote}:its all comes down to winning and looking good doing it:

hockey does it, attendance is through the roof, beanpot records, expanded student section on a permanent basis etc.
basketball does neither, attendance is putrid.
football used to and the student section would be packed and loud. now it doesnt and youd be lucky to see a half full student section towards the end of the year.

its not that complicated.


At the end of the day I agree that winning will increase attendance, but it should never, ever be this bad. In many ways the chicken vs. egg thing is very real between our awful administration and our awful fans.

Can it really be entirely on the program to reach a level of success before anyone shows up even though it is not like this - without exaggeration - in 90+% other BCS conference programs in major sports?
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby pick6pedro on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:32 am

HJS {l Wrote}:I don't think it happens this year, but next year he will be talked about being on a Spaz-like hot-seat...


Stop shoehorning.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby ATLeagle on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:04 pm

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:For all the serious Interwebbing hoops weirdos, let me make myself clearer. The fan support is pretty much reflective of the product on the floor.

Now resume seriousness.


Seriousness resumed in earnest:

No. Skinner's third year, which happened to be my freshman year was coming off a 6-21 season and had identical total win totals and conference win totals to this years team. There was never a crowd as embarrassing as last nights. The nerds are worse than ever. This cannot be denied.

No matter what you say about Skinner or Don, Skinner walked into one of the most toxic situations in BC basketball history. There was the admissions scandal... there was Obie suing the school claiming racism as his waltzed to OSU... there was the entire coaching staff supposedly telling every current BB player to transfer as they didn't know what BC would do with its BB program (even eluded to it being shutting down)... then, they were telling every local school to never send kids.. etc.

It is entirely possible that the students back in Skinner's early days were rallying to support the program. Whereas, there has been no tangible progress under Don from what was the best run BC BB has ever seen (under Skinner). For instance, when Cedorchuck replaced Ciglarski, BC Hockey had regular attendances worse than last night. Same will happen if York's successor sucks as bad.

Again, I like Don... but the combo of no W/L improvement, no fans and no major recruits for people to get excited for... is a recipe for termination. I don't think it happens this year, but next year he will be talked about being on a Spaz-like hot-seat... which will make it THAT much harder for him to successfully recruit top players. It's a vicious cycle that I thought he would start breaking out of through winning this year. He hasn't. That's disappointing for the few fans left and is precarious for his career.


As I see it this board breaks down into people who don't like Donahue for a couple reasons, with some crossover:

1) they are Skinner ballwashers who either are reacting to Skinner bashers or just liked Skinner more than BC basketball or wanted a Skinner assistant or think we'd have been better off in year 16 of Skinner;
2) they hate GDF;
3) they blame donahue for a complete restart from nothing and believe it could have been a more gradual transition;
4) they are fundamentally against losing ever, despite circumstances; and
5) they actually think this team stinks or Donahue is a bad coach and will not improve to an acceptable level.

There are probably more categories and certainly there are breakdowns within each one. I think there is a lot of 2) that gets misplaced in 1), 3) and probably 4). There are also a lot of people who claims to be 5) but are really one or more of the others.

This isn't really responsive to the post above it. So I'll tack on, Donahue is most likely really, really far away from the hot seat outside of fan opinion.



I was a Skinner ball washer and GDF hater, but that is not why I've lost some belief in Donahue. I was totally onboard when he was hired and liked much of what he did in his first season. While I didn't buy into a total restart, I can see why he went that direction. But the reason I am frustrated with him is the lack of progress this year (so far), the roster management and handling of players, and some bad bad performances that where the team didn't seem prepared.

He could still turn it around. He's a better X&Os guy than most of the coaches we face. There is some talent. Now they just need to take the next step. I also think Donahue doesn't delegate or get much from his staff. Maybe you can be a one-man band in the Ivy, but it is harder to pull off in the ACC.

But make no mistake. He will be on the hotseat next season.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:06 pm

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:For all the serious Interwebbing hoops weirdos, let me make myself clearer. The fan support is pretty much reflective of the product on the floor.

Now resume seriousness.


Seriousness resumed in earnest:

No. Skinner's third year, which happened to be my freshman year was coming off a 6-21 season and had identical total win totals and conference win totals to this years team. There was never a crowd as embarrassing as last nights. The nerds are worse than ever. This cannot be denied.

No matter what you say about Skinner or Don, Skinner walked into one of the most toxic situations in BC basketball history. There was the admissions scandal... there was Obie suing the school claiming racism as his waltzed to OSU... there was the entire coaching staff supposedly telling every current BB player to transfer as they didn't know what BC would do with its BB program (even eluded to it being shutting down)... then, they were telling every local school to never send kids.. etc.

It is entirely possible that the students back in Skinner's early days were rallying to support the program. Whereas, there has been no tangible progress under Don from what was the best run BC BB has ever seen (under Skinner). For instance, when Cedorchuck replaced Ciglarski, BC Hockey had regular attendances worse than last night. Same will happen if York's successor sucks as bad.

Again, I like Don... but the combo of no W/L improvement, no fans and no major recruits for people to get excited for... is a recipe for termination. I don't think it happens this year, but next year he will be talked about being on a Spaz-like hot-seat... which will make it THAT much harder for him to successfully recruit top players. It's a vicious cycle that I thought he would start breaking out of through winning this year. He hasn't. That's disappointing for the few fans left and is precarious for his career.


As I see it this board breaks down into people who don't like Donahue for a couple reasons, with some crossover:

1) they are Skinner ballwashers who either are reacting to Skinner bashers or just liked Skinner more than BC basketball or wanted a Skinner assistant or think we'd have been better off in year 16 of Skinner;
2) they hate GDF;
3) they blame donahue for a complete restart from nothing and believe it could have been a more gradual transition;
4) they are fundamentally against losing ever, despite circumstances; and
5) they actually think this team stinks or Donahue is a bad coach and will not improve to an acceptable level.

There are probably more categories and certainly there are breakdowns within each one. I think there is a lot of 2) that gets misplaced in 1), 3) and probably 4). There are also a lot of people who claims to be 5) but are really one or more of the others.

This isn't really responsive to the post above it. So I'll tack on, Donahue is most likely really, really far away from the hot seat outside of fan opinion.


I'm not in any of these categories. I think Don has legitimate excuses, I think he has found some decent talent but has miserably failed in landing recruits at key positions, I think the progress of the program was set way back by whatever caused none of the recruits he inherited to stay and several players he himself recruited to leave. And worst of all, I look at a team with a couple of huge holes and a lack of experience and still see enough talent for it to be a lot better than it is. I didn't think there was any way that this team could be 3-8 in this watered down conference, and that was long before I even got to see how good Rahon and Hanlan turned out to be.

In short, I was a Don fan that is starting to wonder why he can't recruit a big man, can't keep decent players on the team that would provide depth, and can't seem to coach his team over the hump from youthful inexperience to middle of the pack ACC team with a future. Is the team noticeably better than last season? Yes. Is it anywhere near as good as it should be? Absolutely not. And that raises questions.

He is not on the hot seat, however. And I don't want him fired, just expressing disappointment that his team stinks as bad as it does when it is pretty clear that it should be better. He can start by having them shoot free throws all practice.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:07 pm

ATLeagle {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:For all the serious Interwebbing hoops weirdos, let me make myself clearer. The fan support is pretty much reflective of the product on the floor.

Now resume seriousness.


Seriousness resumed in earnest:

No. Skinner's third year, which happened to be my freshman year was coming off a 6-21 season and had identical total win totals and conference win totals to this years team. There was never a crowd as embarrassing as last nights. The nerds are worse than ever. This cannot be denied.

No matter what you say about Skinner or Don, Skinner walked into one of the most toxic situations in BC basketball history. There was the admissions scandal... there was Obie suing the school claiming racism as his waltzed to OSU... there was the entire coaching staff supposedly telling every current BB player to transfer as they didn't know what BC would do with its BB program (even eluded to it being shutting down)... then, they were telling every local school to never send kids.. etc.

It is entirely possible that the students back in Skinner's early days were rallying to support the program. Whereas, there has been no tangible progress under Don from what was the best run BC BB has ever seen (under Skinner). For instance, when Cedorchuck replaced Ciglarski, BC Hockey had regular attendances worse than last night. Same will happen if York's successor sucks as bad.

Again, I like Don... but the combo of no W/L improvement, no fans and no major recruits for people to get excited for... is a recipe for termination. I don't think it happens this year, but next year he will be talked about being on a Spaz-like hot-seat... which will make it THAT much harder for him to successfully recruit top players. It's a vicious cycle that I thought he would start breaking out of through winning this year. He hasn't. That's disappointing for the few fans left and is precarious for his career.


As I see it this board breaks down into people who don't like Donahue for a couple reasons, with some crossover:

1) they are Skinner ballwashers who either are reacting to Skinner bashers or just liked Skinner more than BC basketball or wanted a Skinner assistant or think we'd have been better off in year 16 of Skinner;
2) they hate GDF;
3) they blame donahue for a complete restart from nothing and believe it could have been a more gradual transition;
4) they are fundamentally against losing ever, despite circumstances; and
5) they actually think this team stinks or Donahue is a bad coach and will not improve to an acceptable level.

There are probably more categories and certainly there are breakdowns within each one. I think there is a lot of 2) that gets misplaced in 1), 3) and probably 4). There are also a lot of people who claims to be 5) but are really one or more of the others.

This isn't really responsive to the post above it. So I'll tack on, Donahue is most likely really, really far away from the hot seat outside of fan opinion.



I was a Skinner ball washer and GDF hater, but that is not why I've lost some belief in Donahue. I was totally onboard when he was hired and liked much of what he did in his first season. While I didn't buy into a total restart, I can see why he went that direction. But the reason I am frustrated with him is the lack of progress this year (so far), the roster management and handling of players, and some bad bad performances that where the team didn't seem prepared.

He could still turn it around. He's a better X&Os guy than most of the coaches we face. There is some talent. Now they just need to take the next step. I also think Donahue doesn't delegate or get much from his staff. Maybe you can be a one-man band in the Ivy, but it is harder to pull off in the ACC.

But make no mistake. He will be on the hotseat next season.


What were you expecting for results this year? and what are the bad performances your referring to?

Part of my point with the restart thing is that it is treated as a choice, when in reality much of it was by no means a choice by Donahue.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:08 pm

ATLeagle {l Wrote}:But make no mistake. He will be on the hotseat next season.


Have you ever been a proponent of the BC won't pay for decent assistant theory?
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:13 pm

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
What were you expecting for results this year?


Before I even saw Hanlan and Rahon play, I thought this was a just under .500 conference team and an NIT team. Having seen those two and watching the product that is actually on the floor right now, they should be even better than that in this conference.

As far as unprepared performances, how does the team that loses by 1 to two top 5 teams lay a clunker like the first Wake game? Like last night's Wake game? Fact is that when they actually show up and play a full 40 minutes (which is rare) they are a pretty good team. Anyone that looks at this team and says that they don't have enough talent to be mediocre or that they are too young to win is either making excuses or missed the first Miami and the Duke games.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby Iggle on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:17 pm

The fact that we are flirting with not beating our conference record from last year is cause for concern in my eyes.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:28 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
What were you expecting for results this year?


Before I even saw Hanlan and Rahon play, I thought this was a just under .500 conference team and an NIT team. Having seen those two and watching the product that is actually on the floor right now, they should be even better than that in this conference.

As far as unprepared performances, how does the team that loses by 1 to two top 5 teams lay a clunker like the first Wake game? Like last night's Wake game? Fact is that when they actually show up and play a full 40 minutes (which is rare) they are a pretty good team. Anyone that looks at this team and says that they don't have enough talent to be mediocre or that they are too young to win is either making excuses or missed the first Miami and the Duke games.


So not only do you not take anything positive out of close games against conference opponents and in fact two top five teams nationally, you actually use the close losses to support your argument that the team is underachieving?

My take is and has been that not playing a full 40 minutes is pretty easily explainable. I think they have talent, but I think they need two or so more rotational guys to play a whole game consistently. There are games where this has been painfully obvious, and I think it can be argued in every conference loss except UNC and the second Miami game.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:32 pm

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
What were you expecting for results this year?


Before I even saw Hanlan and Rahon play, I thought this was a just under .500 conference team and an NIT team. Having seen those two and watching the product that is actually on the floor right now, they should be even better than that in this conference.

As far as unprepared performances, how does the team that loses by 1 to two top 5 teams lay a clunker like the first Wake game? Like last night's Wake game? Fact is that when they actually show up and play a full 40 minutes (which is rare) they are a pretty good team. Anyone that looks at this team and says that they don't have enough talent to be mediocre or that they are too young to win is either making excuses or missed the first Miami and the Duke games.


So not only do you not take anything positive out of close games against conference opponents and in fact two top five teams nationally, you actually use the close losses to support your argument that the team is underachieving?

My take is and has been that not playing a full 40 minutes is pretty easily explainable. I think they have talent, but I think they need two or so more rotational guys to play a whole game consistently. There are games where this has been painfully obvious, and I think it can be argued in every conference loss except UNC and the second Miami game.


I don't understand your argument. There is nothing good about a loss, and there is nothing good about playing almost good enough to beat two good teams and playing shitty against every one else.

Those two games are irrelevant. Point is that they play like that against the hordes of mediocre teams they face in this conference and they are close to .500. But they didn't. So your theory is depth is not a problem against good teams, but reveals itself when they play Wake Forest?
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby HJS on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:40 pm

The two things have raised a major red flag for me regarding Don:
1. I think the team should have a considerably better record than they do. I was in the group who thought they could be an NIT team. Whether it is coaching or player lack of player development (am concerned that LoJack and Caudill seem to have regressed this year), I don't know. But 3-8 in a crappy ACC is unacceptable in my opinion.

2. No major recruit coming in. I thought this was a very important recruiting class. I thought this was the year that Don would break-thorugh and land a top player. And, I certainly expected an athletic, highly recruited big would already be a part of the class. Only having Garland Owens (someone who may fit a versatility need, but had a terrible offer sheet and doesn't even start for his team) is simply unacceptable. I don't know why that is, but I can guess that not having staffers with any experience or connection is a major contributor.

I should further note that it is the combination of 1 and 2 that makes me believe that Don's next season could be his last. If he had the team winning, but still sucked at recruiting (ala Skinner), you could talk about how rankings don't matter, etc. If he was kicking ass in recruiting but sucked at coaching, then you can talk about waiting until he gets his guys in place, etc. But, with shitty recruiting and shitty results, it's pretty hard to justify keeping him around if things drastically don't turn around next year.
Last edited by HJS on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:44 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
What were you expecting for results this year?


Before I even saw Hanlan and Rahon play, I thought this was a just under .500 conference team and an NIT team. Having seen those two and watching the product that is actually on the floor right now, they should be even better than that in this conference.

As far as unprepared performances, how does the team that loses by 1 to two top 5 teams lay a clunker like the first Wake game? Like last night's Wake game? Fact is that when they actually show up and play a full 40 minutes (which is rare) they are a pretty good team. Anyone that looks at this team and says that they don't have enough talent to be mediocre or that they are too young to win is either making excuses or missed the first Miami and the Duke games.


So not only do you not take anything positive out of close games against conference opponents and in fact two top five teams nationally, you actually use the close losses to support your argument that the team is underachieving?

My take is and has been that not playing a full 40 minutes is pretty easily explainable. I think they have talent, but I think they need two or so more rotational guys to play a whole game consistently. There are games where this has been painfully obvious, and I think it can be argued in every conference loss except UNC and the second Miami game.


I don't understand your argument. There is nothing good about a loss, and there is nothing good about playing almost good enough to beat two good teams and playing shitty against every one else.

Those two games are irrelevant. Point is that they play like that against the hordes of mediocre teams they face in this conference and they are close to .500. But they didn't. So your theory is depth is not a problem against good teams, but reveals itself when they play Wake Forest?


I don't understand your argument. Donahue can't recruit ("he has failed in landing recruits at key position"), but has good talent and enough depth. Which one is it? This is an actual dichotomy because the talent and depth didn't come from nowhere, either there is a) a dearth of talent and/or a dearth of depth, which can either be blamed on Donahue or not; or b) there is not a dearth of talent or depth whereby Donahue has not failed in landing recruits at key positions.

And nice job with framing two possible options for the Wake loss in prepared/unprepared, because everyone knows that teams including the opponent play at a consistent level every night and that all match ups are fungible, shooting percentage is immutable etc.
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Re: Wake Forest @ Boston College 2/13

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:49 pm

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
What were you expecting for results this year?


Before I even saw Hanlan and Rahon play, I thought this was a just under .500 conference team and an NIT team. Having seen those two and watching the product that is actually on the floor right now, they should be even better than that in this conference.

As far as unprepared performances, how does the team that loses by 1 to two top 5 teams lay a clunker like the first Wake game? Like last night's Wake game? Fact is that when they actually show up and play a full 40 minutes (which is rare) they are a pretty good team. Anyone that looks at this team and says that they don't have enough talent to be mediocre or that they are too young to win is either making excuses or missed the first Miami and the Duke games.


So not only do you not take anything positive out of close games against conference opponents and in fact two top five teams nationally, you actually use the close losses to support your argument that the team is underachieving?

My take is and has been that not playing a full 40 minutes is pretty easily explainable. I think they have talent, but I think they need two or so more rotational guys to play a whole game consistently. There are games where this has been painfully obvious, and I think it can be argued in every conference loss except UNC and the second Miami game.


I don't understand your argument. There is nothing good about a loss, and there is nothing good about playing almost good enough to beat two good teams and playing shitty against every one else.

Those two games are irrelevant. Point is that they play like that against the hordes of mediocre teams they face in this conference and they are close to .500. But they didn't. So your theory is depth is not a problem against good teams, but reveals itself when they play Wake Forest?


I don't understand your argument. Donahue can't recruit ("he has failed in landing recruits at key position"), but has good talent and enough depth. Which one is it? This is an actual dichotomy because the talent and depth didn't come from nowhere, either there is a) a dearth of talent and/or a dearth of depth, which can either be blamed on Donahue or not; or b) there is not a dearth of talent or depth whereby Donahue has not failed in landing recruits at key positions.

And nice job with framing two possible options for the Wake loss in prepared/unprepared, because everyone knows that teams including the opponent play at a consistent level every night and that all match ups are fungible, shooting percentage is immutable etc.


You don't understand because you try to make my points black and white when they are mainly gray. I didn't say he can't recruit, I said he found some good players and failed miserably finding a big man - in the process, getting enough talent to be mediocre (Nerlens Noel pre ACL tear, and this is a sweet 16 team). So its neither. He can recruit, as long as the guy is under 6'6. So, no dichotomy.

And your second point is valid. So I will tell you what, I'd prefer to see them come out prepared for some of the games against mediocre teams instead of just the ones against top 5 opponents. Problem with BC is that they are pretty consistent - consistently worse than they should be against beatable opponents.
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