EagleOutsider.com

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:CAG is doing a solid job trolling the hoops weirdos.

Your(collective your) view of yesterday and this season all depends on expectations and whether you are predetermined to want to view Donahue as showing signs of success or not. NC State was a team that absolutely destroyed us last year, twice. Richard Howell and CJ Leslie looked like they were playing against a bunch of grade school kids. Scott Wood had nothing but open looks the both nights. It was hideous. This year the best frontcourt player was wearing maroon and gold. The game was competitive throughout. To me I can actually see the tournament as a possibility with this lineup maybe as soon as next year. The team, right now, has obvious depth issues (I would note that the 2000-2005 teams only played 8 players regularly as well). It is no secret that there are at best 8 guys on the team (I'm counting Van Nest as a maybe because of the concussion even though he hasn't played in 4 games) that can play more than absolutely miniscule minutes without causing a swing in game momentum. Next year we will lose none due to normal circumstances (Heck might go euro pro or something) and gain at least 1 in Drage-whatever and maybe 2 or more depending on how the class turns out.

I know some people hate this rebuilding process. They either believe, or pretend to believe that Skinner was going to return to the kind of success he achieved pre-2006. Therefore, they believe that starting from scratch was a waste of two or more seasons of basketball. Personally, I love rebuilds. I despise stagnation. I'm not sure I think Skinner was completely plateaued (or declining) and we will never really know. Right now though, I don't really care because I think the new direction has a pretty high upside and that is interesting to me. I don't discount the possibility of a collapse though as the ACC schedule gets going.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

Shaddix {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

People like you are the reason BC doesn't deserve a good basketball team. It's also the reason why recruits don't want to play here. Congratulations.

You aren't old enough to remember when BC actually had a good basketball team. Those of us that are can think that what is going on at BC is an embarrassment. Good fans don't bullshit themselves and try to put lipstick on a pig.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

come on.

Whether it was a really badd off night or they just aren't good, the NCSU team that I watched last night is not going anywhere.

claver2010 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:CAG is doing a solid job trolling the hoops weirdos.

Your(collective your) view of yesterday and this season all depends on expectations and whether you are predetermined to want to view Donahue as showing signs of success or not. NC State was a team that absolutely destroyed us last year, twice. Richard Howell and CJ Leslie looked like they were playing against a bunch of grade school kids. Scott Wood had nothing but open looks the both nights. It was hideous. This year the best frontcourt player was wearing maroon and gold. The game was competitive throughout. To me I can actually see the tournament as a possibility with this lineup maybe as soon as next year. The team, right now, has obvious depth issues (I would note that the 2000-2005 teams only played 8 players regularly as well). It is no secret that there are at best 8 guys on the team (I'm counting Van Nest as a maybe because of the concussion even though he hasn't played in 4 games) that can play more than absolutely miniscule minutes without causing a swing in game momentum. Next year we will lose none due to normal circumstances (Heck might go euro pro or something) and gain at least 1 in Drage-whatever and maybe 2 or more depending on how the class turns out.

I know some people hate this rebuilding process. They either believe, or pretend to believe that Skinner was going to return to the kind of success he achieved pre-2006. Therefore, they believe that starting from scratch was a waste of two or more seasons of basketball. Personally, I love rebuilds. I despise stagnation. I'm not sure I think Skinner was completely plateaued (or declining) and we will never really know. Right now though, I don't really care because I think the new direction has a pretty high upside and that is interesting to me. I don't discount the possibility of a collapse though as the ACC schedule gets going.

Several points:

1) Agreeing with TWB here. I was sitting there thinking, is this really the preseason best in the ACC? Went to the alumni event pregame and Huckaby said Leslie is a lottery pick. Granted the NBA isn't really basketball but looks like he'll be the 1st rounder that never sees beyond his rookie contract. NC St. is once again incredibly overrated. Edit: Him making excuses for the crowd sucking (it wasn't bad at all) for the reason he got dominated and airballed a FT? Only reaffirmed my thought.

see above, I believe the positivity from the result is relative to the result against the same team last year not due to them being predicted to be good this year. Although, I think they will win 20+ games and could make a nice tournament run.

2) I don't mind the short rotation but the 7/8 need to be better than an injured Clifford and Odio going forward. Hence the questions of Donahue recruiting. Let's even say Drago is as good as Donahue said, we still need some size. A 7' with knee issues concerns me going forward and Caudill isn't the answer.

I agree with this, but at the same time am encouraged that we can play small as effectively as we have. Clifford's healthy knees would make this a completely different team and I agree that no one on the roster is close to an adequate fill in.

3) Agree with the building process. Isn't and wasn't going to happen overnight. My concern is that the ACC is getting much much better in the next couple of years. 18 games with 2 automatically against Cuse, ND each add in Ville for MD this conf is going to be excellent.

while I agree, what can be done? We could have Cooley recruiting top 150 players and losing games with horrendous coaching? I think Donahue has shown some great glimpses of talent evaluation, Hanlan and Rahon and Anderson are all homeruns. He's also swung and missed badly on the Moton over Cotton (unbelievably horrible although probably no long term consequences), and I'm not sure whether I think the need for bodies mitigates the Daniels, Odio, Caudill portion of the 2011 class. He is in my eyes a pretty good coach, although I have some concerns about his stubborness. We need him to show that he can win a little with his underrecruited guys and use it to get higher recruited guys to supplement his underrecruited guys. If this happens, I think its the only way to succeed in the super ACC.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:I can see the talent and have long term expectations (I was one of the most optimistic people on this board) and still acknowledge that this team is WAY behind schedule and thus far, this season has been am epic disappointment. The more I watch this team, the less excited I am about the next couple of seasons. Unless Drago is the real deal, they will have all the same problems next year. It is sad that they have not been addressed.

On that note, we were just talking about how much the FT shooting improved over Al, and BOOM, ft shooting costs us a game. And I am not talking about the one Heckmann missed, although ESPN has been highlighting that on the ticker all morning.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:We used to have a coach that could win in a superconference with under recruited guys. Hopefully this guy will show that he can reach that level.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:I can see the talent and have long term expectations (I was one of the most optimistic people on this board) and still acknowledge that this team is WAY behind schedule and thus far, this season has been am epic disappointment. The more I watch this team, the less excited I am about the next couple of seasons. Unless Drago is the real deal, they will have all the same problems next year. It is sad that they have not been addressed.

On that note, we were just talking about how much the FT shooting improved over Al, and BOOM, ft shooting costs us a game. And I am not talking about the one Heckmann missed, although ESPN has been highlighting that on the ticker all morning.

I feel like we're not watching the same thing.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:We used to have a coach that could win in a superconference with under recruited guys. Hopefully this guy will show that he can reach that level.

It's too bad that guy hasn't existed since 2006.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:I can see the talent and have long term expectations (I was one of the most optimistic people on this board) and still acknowledge that this team is WAY behind schedule and thus far, this season has been am epic disappointment. The more I watch this team, the less excited I am about the next couple of seasons. Unless Drago is the real deal, they will have all the same problems next year. It is sad that they have not been addressed.

On that note, we were just talking about how much the FT shooting improved over Al, and BOOM, ft shooting costs us a game. And I am not talking about the one Heckmann missed, although ESPN has been highlighting that on the ticker all morning.

I feel like we're not watching the same thing.

Which part? Because the ESPN ticker has been noting that Heckmann was 25-27 and went 2-3 in the final seconds all morning. But the first half free throws were what bothered me - they were like 3 of 9 at one point.

As for the team, I had hoped that getting blown out by Harvard and losing to Bryant were things of the past. One game of almost winning against a lethargic ranked team doesn't change that any more than it did the last time, when the name on the jersey was "BAYLOR"

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:BTW, i bet we surpass the vaunted 11-19 record that coach handsome reached in 1999 this year, with a team with a great freshman guard and no big man depth.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:I can see the talent and have long term expectations (I was one of the most optimistic people on this board) and still acknowledge that this team is WAY behind schedule and thus far, this season has been am epic disappointment. The more I watch this team, the less excited I am about the next couple of seasons. Unless Drago is the real deal, they will have all the same problems next year. It is sad that they have not been addressed.

On that note, we were just talking about how much the FT shooting improved over Al, and BOOM, ft shooting costs us a game. And I am not talking about the one Heckmann missed, although ESPN has been highlighting that on the ticker all morning.

I feel like we're not watching the same thing.

Which part? Because the ESPN ticker has been noting that Heckmann was 25-27 and went 2-3 in the final seconds all morning. But the first half free throws were what bothered me - they were like 3 of 9 at one point.

As for the team, I had hoped that getting blown out by Harvard and losing to Bryant were things of the past. One game of almost winning against a lethargic ranked team doesn't change that any more than it did the last time, when the name on the jersey was "BAYLOR"

And if our leading scorer and rebounder trips down the bus steps again today and becomes unable to jump or run for a stretch of 5 games, I'm sure we'll see another step back. I know some posters like to pretend that injury didn't happen though.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

You are notorious for under rating BC's opponents and you are always captain of the 10-2 season. BC played a good game against a talented squad.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:BTW, i bet we surpass the vaunted 11-19 record that coach handsome reached in 1999 this year, with a team with a great freshman guard and no big man depth.

Glad we are aiming high. Let me know when we can bet on making the tourney 5 years in a row with a straight face.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

You are notorious for under rating BC's opponents and you are always captain of the 10-2 season. BC played a good game against a talented squad.

Ha, that's a good one. I predicted 5-7 this year.

As for your other point, cake and ice cream for all. MORAL VICTORY.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:I can see the talent and have long term expectations (I was one of the most optimistic people on this board) and still acknowledge that this team is WAY behind schedule and thus far, this season has been am epic disappointment. The more I watch this team, the less excited I am about the next couple of seasons. Unless Drago is the real deal, they will have all the same problems next year. It is sad that they have not been addressed.

On that note, we were just talking about how much the FT shooting improved over Al, and BOOM, ft shooting costs us a game. And I am not talking about the one Heckmann missed, although ESPN has been highlighting that on the ticker all morning.

I feel like we're not watching the same thing.

Which part? Because the ESPN ticker has been noting that Heckmann was 25-27 and went 2-3 in the final seconds all morning. But the first half free throws were what bothered me - they were like 3 of 9 at one point.

As for the team, I had hoped that getting blown out by Harvard and losing to Bryant were things of the past. One game of almost winning against a lethargic ranked team doesn't change that any more than it did the last time, when the name on the jersey was "BAYLOR"

And if our leading scorer and rebounder trips down the bus steps again today and becomes unable to jump or run for a stretch of 5 games, I'm sure we'll see another step back. I know some posters like to pretend that injury didn't happen though.

I am disappointed that that injury matters against the likes of Bryant and College of Charleston

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:We used to have a coach that could win in a superconference with under recruited guys. Hopefully this guy will show that he can reach that level.

It's too bad that guy hasn't existed since 2006.

You keep telling me that. Reggie Jackson.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:Dear hoops weirdos,

Do you think ncsu played anywhere near their talent potential last night?

You may now resume your rusty trombone recording sessions titled "we're the best, 10-2 here we come"

Hugs and kisses,

tre

You are the reason BC doesn't deserve a good basketball team and recruits won't come here. Jerk.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:BTW, i bet we surpass the vaunted 11-19 record that coach handsome reached in 1999 this year, with a team with a great freshman guard and no big man depth.

Glad we are aiming high. Let me know when we can bet on making the tourney 5 years in a row with a straight face.

You are going to HJSian levels of disingenuity. You say we are not making acceptable progress, then you say or imply that the last coach was satisfactory, but you discount the nearly identical progress. 1997 Skinner wins a little bit with JOB's player, 1998 Skinner has a miserable awful season with a mostly empty roster, 1999 Skinner's team shows progress but isn't ready yet. Other than having the benefit of hindsight for one and not the other the progress looks strikingly similar. Very few people would have bet on 5 straight tournament appearances on January 6, 2000.

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:We used to have a coach that could win in a superconference with under recruited guys. Hopefully this guy will show that he can reach that level.

It's too bad that guy hasn't existed since 2006.

You keep telling me that. Reggie Jackson.

Who absolutely sucked under Skinner and was revived by Donahue.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:We used to have a coach that could win in a superconference with under recruited guys. Hopefully this guy will show that he can reach that level.

It's too bad that guy hasn't existed since 2006.

You keep telling me that. Reggie Jackson.

Who absolutely sucked under Skinner and was revived by Donahue.

This could be the dumbest thing I have ever seen posted.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:BTW, i bet we surpass the vaunted 11-19 record that coach handsome reached in 1999 this year, with a team with a great freshman guard and no big man depth.

Glad we are aiming high. Let me know when we can bet on making the tourney 5 years in a row with a straight face.

You are going to HJSian levels of disingenuity. You say we are not making acceptable progress, then you say or imply that the last coach was satisfactory, but you discount the nearly identical progress. 1997 Skinner wins a little bit with JOB's player, 1998 Skinner has a miserable awful season with a mostly empty roster, 1999 Skinner's team shows progress but isn't ready yet. Other than having the benefit of hindsight for one and not the other the progress looks strikingly similar. Very few people would have bet on 5 straight tournament appearances on January 6, 2000.

So what you're saying is that the Don landed Troy Bell in this year's class?

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

You are notorious for under rating BC's opponents and you are always captain of the 10-2 season. BC played a good game against a talented squad.

Ha, that's a good one. I predicted 5-7 this year.

As for your other point, cake and ice cream for all. MORAL VICTORY.

Predicting 5-7 in year four of Spaz is the eqivalent of predicting 10-2 in a normal year. Do you or do you not shit on every single college team?

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:BTW, i bet we surpass the vaunted 11-19 record that coach handsome reached in 1999 this year, with a team with a great freshman guard and no big man depth.

Glad we are aiming high. Let me know when we can bet on making the tourney 5 years in a row with a straight face.

You are going to HJSian levels of disingenuity. You say we are not making acceptable progress, then you say or imply that the last coach was satisfactory, but you discount the nearly identical progress. 1997 Skinner wins a little bit with JOB's player, 1998 Skinner has a miserable awful season with a mostly empty roster, 1999 Skinner's team shows progress but isn't ready yet. Other than having the benefit of hindsight for one and not the other the progress looks strikingly similar. Very few people would have bet on 5 straight tournament appearances on January 6, 2000.

So what you're saying is that the Don landed Troy Bell in this year's class?

He certainly landed 2 GREAT freshmen guards. Those 2 are far and away better than most freshmen in the ACC.

Shaddix {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:We used to have a coach that could win in a superconference with under recruited guys. Hopefully this guy will show that he can reach that level.

It's too bad that guy hasn't existed since 2006.

You keep telling me that. Reggie Jackson.

Who absolutely sucked under Skinner and was revived by Donahue.

This could be the dumbest thing I have ever seen posted.

Yea, that's not accurate. But he developed well under the Don.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:BTW, i bet we surpass the vaunted 11-19 record that coach handsome reached in 1999 this year, with a team with a great freshman guard and no big man depth.

Glad we are aiming high. Let me know when we can bet on making the tourney 5 years in a row with a straight face.

You are going to HJSian levels of disingenuity. You say we are not making acceptable progress, then you say or imply that the last coach was satisfactory, but you discount the nearly identical progress. 1997 Skinner wins a little bit with JOB's player, 1998 Skinner has a miserable awful season with a mostly empty roster, 1999 Skinner's team shows progress but isn't ready yet. Other than having the benefit of hindsight for one and not the other the progress looks strikingly similar. Very few people would have bet on 5 straight tournament appearances on January 6, 2000.

So what you're saying is that the Don landed Troy Bell in this year's class?

He certainly landed 2 GREAT freshmen guards. Those 2 are far and away better than most freshmen in the ACC.

There's no doubt that he landed 2 very good guards. I am pleased with their performance. That said, your statement is a gross exaggeration.

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:BTW, i bet we surpass the vaunted 11-19 record that coach handsome reached in 1999 this year, with a team with a great freshman guard and no big man depth.

Glad we are aiming high. Let me know when we can bet on making the tourney 5 years in a row with a straight face.

You are going to HJSian levels of disingenuity. You say we are not making acceptable progress, then you say or imply that the last coach was satisfactory, but you discount the nearly identical progress. 1997 Skinner wins a little bit with JOB's player, 1998 Skinner has a miserable awful season with a mostly empty roster, 1999 Skinner's team shows progress but isn't ready yet. Other than having the benefit of hindsight for one and not the other the progress looks strikingly similar. Very few people would have bet on 5 straight tournament appearances on January 6, 2000.

So what you're saying is that the Don landed Troy Bell in this year's class?

He certainly landed 2 GREAT freshmen guards. Those 2 are far and away better than most freshmen in the ACC.

There's no doubt that he landed 2 very good guards. I am pleased with their performance. That said, your statement is a gross exaggeration.

Name 1 or 2 that's better