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i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

Same exact feelings as I had after seeing them on TV a few times earlier this year.

Anderson and Clifford are good. Clifford needs to heal, he could be an excellent all-around player before he's done.

Hanlan is going to be awesome. Rahon is good too. That's four solid pieces to build around.

Jackson is a good role player. On a team with more depth, he'd be excellent.

I don't understand the Heckman love, Dave O'Brien kept complimenting him on TV today as to how good a player he is. I think Don wants him to be a hustling sparkplug, but to me he mostly hurts the team with his out-of-control play. I also have now seen him play about 15 games over the two years, and am yet to see his shooting stroke really do anything.

I also don't get what happened with Caudill, he got some minutes last year and looked serviceable. Also surprised by Van Nest's absence, is he hurt ?

Anyway, they're clearly not a good all-around team yet. They need depth badly, one more scorer, and the guards need a lot more experience. But if they can add two or three solid recruits plus 20 more games of experience for the guards, I think Donahue's vision can come together starting next year and especially the year after. But even now it feels like they might at least be more competitive in ACC games, which would be an improvement over last year.

Mike_S {l Wrote}:Same exact feelings as I had after seeing them on TV a few times earlier this year.

Anderson and Clifford are good. Clifford needs to heal, he could be an excellent all-around player before he's done.

Hanlan is going to be awesome. Rahon is good too. That's four solid pieces to build around.

Jackson is a good role player. On a team with more depth, he'd be excellent.

I don't understand the Heckman love, Dave O'Brien kept complimenting him on TV today as to how good a player he is. I think Don wants him to be a hustling sparkplug, but to me he mostly hurts the team with his out-of-control play. I also have now seen him play about 15 games over the two years, and am yet to see his shooting stroke really do anything.

I also don't get what happened with Caudill, he got some minutes last year and looked serviceable. Also surprised by Van Nest's absence, is he hurt ?

Anyway, they're clearly not a good all-around team yet. They need depth badly, one more scorer, and the guards need a lot more experience. But if they can add two or three solid recruits plus 20 more games of experience for the guards, I think Donahue's vision can come together starting next year and especially the year after. But even now it feels like they might at least be more competitive in ACC games, which would be an improvement over last year.

this i agree with.

commavegarage {l Wrote}:first game i had seen in person this year

heckman cant graduate soon enough
weve got 3 legit players
donahues substitutions frustrate me
we cant hit 3s
we cant hit free throws
we have inexcusable lapses on defense
i dont have a problem going small except for the fact that we dont have the players to do that yet

Go fuck yourself.

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

They didn't play well, but they exceeded the expectations of most, I think.

Rahon postgame:

"We know we can play with anybody," Rahon said. "So staying close with NC State -- maybe should've beaten NC State -- we expect to be in that situation. … Just being in those kind of situations, in the future down the road it will prove to have helped us.

"But right now we're just disappointed we didn't come through."

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:As far as the game itself goes, I'm proud of the effort put forth. My main concern is that they flop next game like they did following the Baylor loss. Donahue can't let that happen again.

Didnt Anderson get hurt after the Baylor game?

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:As far as the game itself goes, I'm proud of the effort put forth. My main concern is that they flop next game like they did following the Baylor loss. Donahue can't let that happen again.

Didnt Anderson get hurt after the Baylor game?

Even when Anderson when hobbled BC played awful on defense.

Saw VT play MD. They aren't a good defensive team but Green should give BC trouble.

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

If you honestly came away disappointed, then it is a good thing you haven't seen BC play earlier in the season. I am curious what you expected going in...did you pencil in the second-best team in the ACC as a win for BC?

The talent disparity between NC State and BC is enormous...NC State has brought in Top 10 recruiting classes over the past few years, not to mention that they have upperclassmen on their team. Part of the problem is that Donahue is the worst recruiter in the ACC, but he is easily one of the best coaches. I thought his substitution patterns were good, and I do not know what you did not like about them. It would have helped if he could play Hanlan more, but he had serious foul trouble.

I found this game very exciting. This game went back and forth and we had a chance to win it through the final minute. There are certainly several areas we could have improved to win the game, but overall we played well and the team brought the energy.

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

Part of the problem is that Donahue is the worst recruiter in the ACC, but he is easily one of the best coaches. .

This a major reach. We are talking about a guy who lost to BRYANT AT HOME, right? I'm not saying he's a terrible coach, but let's be real about this; he hasn't proven a thing as an ACC coach except that he can take another coach's players to the NIT.

EagleDave {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

Part of the problem is that Donahue is the worst recruiter in the ACC, but he is easily one of the best coaches. .

This a major reach. We are talking about a guy who lost to BRYANT AT HOME, right? I'm not saying he's a terrible coach, but let's be real about this; he hasn't proven a thing as an ACC coach except that he can take another coach's players to the NIT.

This is true, but its not really fair to say that yet. He was left without ANY players in 2011. Its a tall task for any coach to make a tournament starting 3 sophomores and a completely freshman backcourt. Keep in mind that BC is in the top 5 for youngest team in the ENTIRE COUNTRY, and that's not his fault.

If Jordan Daniels didn't transfer, then BC would have won the game today.

Shaddix {l Wrote}:

EagleDave {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

Part of the problem is that Donahue is the worst recruiter in the ACC, but he is easily one of the best coaches. .

This a major reach. We are talking about a guy who lost to BRYANT AT HOME, right? I'm not saying he's a terrible coach, but let's be real about this; he hasn't proven a thing as an ACC coach except that he can take another coach's players to the NIT.

This is true, but its not really fair to say that yet. He was left without ANY players in 2011. Its a tall task for any coach to make a tournament starting 3 sophomores and a completely freshman backcourt. Keep in mind that BC is in the top 5 for youngest team in the ENTIRE COUNTRY, and that's not his fault.

If Jordan Daniels didn't transfer, then BC would have won the game today.

This is like the fucking bat signal for teddy.

EagleDave {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

Part of the problem is that Donahue is the worst recruiter in the ACC, but he is easily one of the best coaches. .

This a major reach. We are talking about a guy who lost to BRYANT AT HOME, right? I'm not saying he's a terrible coach, but let's be real about this; he hasn't proven a thing as an ACC coach except that he can take another coach's players (which the previous coach went 15-16 with) to the NIT.

Fixed.

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

If you honestly came away disappointed, then it is a good thing you haven't seen BC play earlier in the season. I am curious what you expected going in...did you pencil in the second-best team in the ACC as a win for BC?

The talent disparity between NC State and BC is enormous...NC State has brought in Top 10 recruiting classes over the past few years, not to mention that they have upperclassmen on their team. Part of the problem is that Donahue is the worst recruiter in the ACC, but he is easily one of the best coaches. I thought his substitution patterns were good, and I do not know what you did not like about them. It would have helped if he could play Hanlan more, but he had serious foul trouble.

I found this game very exciting. This game went back and forth and we had a chance to win it through the final minute. There are certainly several areas we could have improved to win the game, but overall we played well and the team brought the energy.

I love how people call Donahue the worst recruiter in the ACC, and later they say "I like Hanlan" or "I like Anderson". THINK GUYS. The worst recruiter in the ACC, no matter how good a coach he is, will lose more games than he wins every season. Right now BC has a winning record. They have a decent chance to keep it w/out the season.

Just because Donahue doesn't bring in top 150 guys all the time doesn't mean he's not a good recruiter. It's basically like saying the players NC State got under Sidney Lowe were better than these guys. If you believe that, then you've really lost your mind.

EDIT:

2) Take notes, Wake Forest
My respect for Boston College coach Steve Donahue is well-documented. He won at Cornell (when no one else ever did) and his first BC team went 9-7 in the ACC.

After Donahue's first season, which he won with an inherited group of talent from Al Skinner, he completely reset the program. Since Skinner's last two recruiting classes had a net result of zero scholarship players, that wasn't a particularly difficult path for Donahue to choose, although he did part with two legitimate ACC players in Rakim Sanders (Fairfield) and Evan Ravenel (Ohio State).

But that's how you rebuild. After the first year, you make your choices and you cut bait. Then you go out and get your own players. In sophomore forwards Ryan Anderson and Dennis Clifford and freshmen guards Joe Rahon and Olivier Hanlan, Donahue has the foundation for an NCAA tournament team.

Compare that to Wake Forest, whose coach is also in Year 3 but continues to turn over his roster and is now seemingly waiting for a star recruit from the class of 2014 to save the program.

It's OK to want to win with your own players but you can't keep making the same mistakes and expect different results.

I had not seen Rahon or Hanlan until Saturday and they are both physically and mentally prepared to play in the ACC.

"I really like the two freshmen guards," Gottfried said. "Those two guys make them different."

Rahon finished with 18 points on Saturday and Hanlan, who was a real recruiting find, had 10 points, three assists and two steals.

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

At least you recognize that you could be wrong -- because you ARE wrong. This was a good effort -- and about 10 times better than what everyone expected out of a game where we match up as poorly as we do with NC State. If we'd shot slightly better from either 3 or at the line we would have won. If Wood weren't freakishly clutch after sitting on the bench for 10 minutes we would have won.

And all the people who would attribute the closeness of the game to the fact that NC State didn't play as well as they could need to recognize that two teams play the game; when one team doesn't play well it usually has something to do with what the other team is doing (an exception would be the 17 consecutive wide open 3's against New Hampshire -- that was just us sucking all on our own!). I would argue that we largely controlled the flow/pace of the game yesterday. NC State was able to break out a couple of times but we didn't panic and we reigned things back in. In addition against a team with more size and more athleticism we were basically even on rebounds (NC State +1) and we only turned the ball over 8 times. We played with more heart, more effort and I would submit more brains. To do that with two freshman running the show, with a 6'8" starting Center and with a gimpy 7' captain (who played with great passion and effort btw) is really promising.

If you would catch more games than you miss, garage man, you would know that. That's why I was so pissy about your original post. I'm tired of people spouting off who don't know what they're talking about -- although I recognize that is the purpose of a board like this.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:As far as the game itself goes, I'm proud of the effort put forth. My main concern is that they flop next game like they did following the Baylor loss. Donahue can't let that happen again.

Didnt Anderson get hurt after the Baylor game?

This is my concern. BC needs to bring the same effort on Wednesday

GodofBeasts94 {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

At least you recognize that you could be wrong -- because you ARE wrong. This was a good effort -- and about 10 times better than what everyone expected out of a game where we match up as poorly as we do with NC State. If we'd shot slightly better from either 3 or at the line we would have won. If Wood weren't freakishly clutch after sitting on the bench for 10 minutes we would have won.

And all the people who would attribute the closeness of the game to the fact that NC State didn't play as well as they could need to recognize that two teams play the game; when one team doesn't play well it usually has something to do with what the other team is doing (an exception would be the 17 consecutive wide open 3's against New Hampshire -- that was just us sucking all on our own!). I would argue that we largely controlled the flow/pace of the game yesterday. NC State was able to break out a couple of times but we didn't panic and we reigned things back in. In addition against a team with more size and more athleticism we were basically even on rebounds (NC State +1) and we only turned the ball over 8 times. We played with more heart, more effort and I would submit more brains. To do that with two freshman running the show, with a 6'8" starting Center and with a gimpy 7' captain (who played with great passion and effort btw) is really promising.

If you would catch more games than you miss, garage man, you would know that. That's why I was so pissy about your original post. I'm tired of people spouting off who don't know what they're talking about -- although I recognize that is the purpose of a board like this.

the pom squad looked as bad as it had in prior years.

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

They didn't play well, but they exceeded the expectations of most, I think.

they also exceeded my expectations.

dont see why thats cause to throw a parade. but then again, i dont interact with the weirdos too often.

what frustrates me is when you are a young & not as skilled of team you need to make up for it by playing smarter & solid fundamental basketball. there were just so many lapses down the stretch on the defensive side of the ball. including the worst one (i think it was heckmans fault) on an inbound resulting in a wide open 3. we shot a free throw percentage yesterday that would have put us tied for 271st in ft shooting percentage when we got 37 ATTEMPTS!

(i admit im still not over losing to bryant at home for full disclosure)

again, as i said, we have 3 players. thats not a criticism of them. those 3 are good to very good players already.

commavegarage {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

They didn't play well, but they exceeded the expectations of most, I think.

they also exceeded my expectations.

dont see why thats cause to throw a parade. but then again, i dont interact with the weirdos too often.

what frustrates me is when you are a young & not as skilled of team you need to make up for it by playing smarter & solid fundamental basketball. there were just so many lapses down the stretch on the defensive side of the ball. including the worst one (i think it was heckmans fault) on an inbound resulting in a wide open 3. we shot a free throw percentage yesterday that would have put us tied for 271st in ft shooting percentage when we got 37 ATTEMPTS!

(i admit im still not over losing to bryant at home for full disclosure)

again, as i said, we have 3 players. thats not a criticism of them. those 3 are good to very good players already.

When Jackson and Heck hit their shots they are legit ACC players too. And DC when he's healthy.

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

They didn't play well, but they exceeded the expectations of most, I think.

they also exceeded my expectations.

dont see why thats cause to throw a parade. but then again, i dont interact with the weirdos too often.

what frustrates me is when you are a young & not as skilled of team you need to make up for it by playing smarter & solid fundamental basketball. there were just so many lapses down the stretch on the defensive side of the ball. including the worst one (i think it was heckmans fault) on an inbound resulting in a wide open 3. we shot a free throw percentage yesterday that would have put us tied for 271st in ft shooting percentage when we got 37 ATTEMPTS!

(i admit im still not over losing to bryant at home for full disclosure)

again, as i said, we have 3 players. thats not a criticism of them. those 3 are good to very good players already.

When Jackson and Heck hit their shots they are legit ACC players too. And DC when he's healthy.

give it up. those two are nothing more than role players...at best. jackson is shooting 34% from the field (and 3) this year. heckman doesnt care for the idea of playing defense.

clifford IF HE STAYS healthy, is a role player who could turn into a starter with time. that i agree with.

commavegarage {l Wrote}:

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

They didn't play well, but they exceeded the expectations of most, I think.

they also exceeded my expectations.

dont see why thats cause to throw a parade. but then again, i dont interact with the weirdos too often.

what frustrates me is when you are a young & not as skilled of team you need to make up for it by playing smarter & solid fundamental basketball. there were just so many lapses down the stretch on the defensive side of the ball. including the worst one (i think it was heckmans fault) on an inbound resulting in a wide open 3. we shot a free throw percentage yesterday that would have put us tied for 271st in ft shooting percentage when we got 37 ATTEMPTS!

(i admit im still not over losing to bryant at home for full disclosure)

again, as i said, we have 3 players. thats not a criticism of them. those 3 are good to very good players already.

When Jackson and Heck hit their shots they are legit ACC players too. And DC when he's healthy.

give it up. those two are nothing more than role players...at best. jackson is shooting 34% from the field (and 3) this year. heckman doesnt care for the idea of playing defense.

clifford IF HE STAYS healthy, is a role player who could turn into a starter with time. that i agree with.

Clifford was considered a starter going into this season (until he got hurt) and a lot of ACC coaches lauded at his potential...point is he isn't a role player.

Jackson is an excellent spark plug to any team...he plays motivated and competes, especially when he hits his 3's.

Heckmann has decent athletic ability and is a shooter...sure he isn't the best player on defense, but neither is Jackson (though Jackson is probably a little better). Their job out there is to hit their shots and score. Both have done that in the past 6 games (minus Heck vs. UNH and NCSU).

Plus, Jackson's numbers are skewed b/c he shot 29% from 3 the first 8 games of the season. The past 6 he's shot 41%.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:Thought BC played real well today. They need to clean up the defensive switches and FT shooting. VT will be motivated on Wednesday.

Nothing to be ashamed of at all for BC, that's a talented team in NCST

Talented yes. Good? Not really. Gottfried is terrible.

And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

commavegarage {l Wrote}:

BCEaglesFan {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

commavegarage {l Wrote}:i could be wrong. i dont watch every game. in fact, i miss more than i catch. if people thought the way bc played today constituted as "very well" for this team...then id hate to see what an average game looks like.

They didn't play well, but they exceeded the expectations of most, I think.

they also exceeded my expectations.

dont see why thats cause to throw a parade. but then again, i dont interact with the weirdos too often.

what frustrates me is when you are a young & not as skilled of team you need to make up for it by playing smarter & solid fundamental basketball. there were just so many lapses down the stretch on the defensive side of the ball. including the worst one (i think it was heckmans fault) on an inbound resulting in a wide open 3. we shot a free throw percentage yesterday that would have put us tied for 271st in ft shooting percentage when we got 37 ATTEMPTS!

(i admit im still not over losing to bryant at home for full disclosure)

again, as i said, we have 3 players. thats not a criticism of them. those 3 are good to very good players already.

When Jackson and Heck hit their shots they are legit ACC players too. And DC when he's healthy.

give it up. those two are nothing more than role players...at best. jackson is shooting 34% from the field (and 3) this year. heckman doesnt care for the idea of playing defense.

clifford IF HE STAYS healthy, is a role player who could turn into a starter with time. that i agree with.

CAG is doing a solid job trolling the hoops weirdos.

Your(collective your) view of yesterday and this season all depends on expectations and whether you are predetermined to want to view Donahue as showing signs of success or not. NC State was a team that absolutely destroyed us last year, twice. Richard Howell and CJ Leslie looked like they were playing against a bunch of grade school kids. Scott Wood had nothing but open looks the both nights. It was hideous. This year the best frontcourt player was wearing maroon and gold. The game was competitive throughout. To me I can actually see the tournament as a possibility with this lineup maybe as soon as next year. The team, right now, has obvious depth issues (I would note that the 2000-2005 teams only played 8 players regularly as well). It is no secret that there are at best 8 guys on the team (I'm counting Van Nest as a maybe because of the concussion even though he hasn't played in 4 games) that can play more than absolutely miniscule minutes without causing a swing in game momentum. Next year we will lose none due to normal circumstances (Heck might go euro pro or something) and gain at least 1 in Drage-whatever and maybe 2 or more depending on how the class turns out.

I know some people hate this rebuilding process. They either believe, or pretend to believe that Skinner was going to return to the kind of success he achieved pre-2006. Therefore, they believe that starting from scratch was a waste of two or more seasons of basketball. Personally, I love rebuilds. I despise stagnation. I'm not sure I think Skinner was completely plateaued (or declining) and we will never really know. Right now though, I don't really care because I think the new direction has a pretty high upside and that is interesting to me. I don't discount the possibility of a collapse though as the ACC schedule gets going.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

come on.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

People like you are the reason BC doesn't deserve a good basketball team. It's also the reason why recruits don't want to play here. Congratulations.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

come on.

Whether it was a really badd off night or they just aren't good, the NCSU team that I watched last night is not going anywhere.

Dear hoops weirdos,

Do you think ncsu played anywhere near their talent potential last night?

You may now resume your rusty trombone recording sessions titled "we're the best, 10-2 here we come"

Hugs and kisses,

tre

Shaddix {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:And the love for a BC squad that played a little bit better than their normal terrible performance on a night that a talented but mediocre team played really poorly is kind of sad. Commave is completely correct and getting crucified because the hoops weirdos are way overrating NCSU and their miserable performance. NCSU plays like that all season, they go .500 in the conference at best.

People like you are the reason BC doesn't deserve a good basketball team. It's also the reason why recruits don't want to play here. Congratulations.

You aren't old enough to remember when BC actually had a good basketball team. Those of us that are can think that what is going on at BC is an embarrassment. Good fans don't bullshit themselves and try to put lipstick on a pig.

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:Dear hoops weirdos,

Do you think ncsu played anywhere near their talent potential last night?

You may now resume your rusty trombone recording sessions titled "we're the best, 10-2 here we come"

Hugs and kisses,

tre

You are the reason BC doesn't deserve a good basketball team and recruits won't come here. Jerk.