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gaelfu {l Wrote}:Fine, pounded into submission on that point.

Still would like to see the PG A/TO ratio be higher than 1.3 to 1. Should be around the 2 to 1 range. Of course, we sucked last year, so that might have something to do with it.

I would agree with the ratio you seek, but would note he was a freshman on a team that couldn't shoot straight at times. More knocked down jumpers would have led to more assists. An argument that he did not have enough assists is a valid one - the 2:1 ratio should have been 4+ assists per game.

Im not nuts about Jorgensn so hopefully Donahue goes another direction.

If Odio is the most improved player, that would be fantastic.

Disappointing... 6 months ago I would have expected us to win at least 15 in the coming season. After losing 3 guards I think we can expect another crappy season. This "good for the long-term" is complete bullshit. Everyone agrees that we need to win now for recruiting to come around, well now we have a thin front court and a thin back court with no experience.

joemack13 {l Wrote}:Disappointing... 6 months ago I would have expected us to win at least 15 in the coming season. After losing 3 guards I think we can expect another crappy season. This "good for the long-term" is complete bullshit. Everyone agrees that we need to win now for recruiting to come around, well now we have a thin front court and a thin back court with no experience.

Let's see the first few games first.

joemack13 {l Wrote}:Disappointing... 6 months ago I would have expected us to win at least 15 in the coming season. After losing 3 guards I think we can expect another crappy season. This "good for the long-term" is complete bullshit. Everyone agrees that we need to win now for recruiting to come around, well now we have a thin front court and a thin back court with no experience.

I disagree with your "losing 3 guards" criticism. Moton wasn't a loss. In hindsight, had I known Daniels was leaving I would have liked to keep Moton just to give us some backup minutes but Moton couldn't hang with the tough competition (and quite frankly wasn't a D1-type player). Humphrey was an ok player, but would have only marginally helped the team. Humphrey's shot selection was poor and ultimately this team wasn't going to be real good until 2013 anyways.

But...Daniels was a serious loss. I am not saying he would have ever been an elite ACC guard, but he has great ball handling and has already had some ACC success. Even if he wasn't the starter he would no doubt contribute all 4 years for BC. Daniels also seemed really close with the team so that particularly shocked me that he decided to leave.

Again, the good news is that Donahue at least has some recruiting options now. We can recruit a big or a guard in 2013 if Donahue sees a player he likes. It is unfortunate that it is so late in the 2013 recruiting cycle, but with decommits and late bloomers we may be able to land another quality player.

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:Again, the good news is that Donahue at least has some recruiting options now. We can recruit a big or a guard in 2013 if Donahue sees a player he likes. It is unfortunate that it is so late in the 2013 recruiting cycle, but with decommits and late bloomers we may be able to land another quality player.

Did you seriously just write this after vehemently arguing the exact opposite in the Recruiting thread 2 weeks ago????

I love when people say recruits brought in by the coach aren't a loss because he can go get another player. Great, what's that player going to be like?

These players were losses, especially Daniels. You need enough bodies to run this style of play.

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:Again, the good news is that Donahue at least has some recruiting options now. We can recruit a big or a guard in 2013 if Donahue sees a player he likes. It is unfortunate that it is so late in the 2013 recruiting cycle, but with decommits and late bloomers we may be able to land another quality player.

Did you seriously just write this after vehemently arguing the exact opposite in the Recruiting thread 2 weeks ago????

Two weeks ago Jordan Daniels was still with BC.

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:Again, the good news is that Donahue at least has some recruiting options now. We can recruit a big or a guard in 2013 if Donahue sees a player he likes. It is unfortunate that it is so late in the 2013 recruiting cycle, but with decommits and late bloomers we may be able to land another quality player.

Did you seriously just write this after vehemently arguing the exact opposite in the Recruiting thread 2 weeks ago????

Two weeks ago Jordan Daniels was still with BC.

Which was exactly the point two weeks ago of me, teddy and others... you never constrain yourself by preserving schollies when every effing year kids leave the program for reasons other than graduation. Jordan Daniels leaving the program is surprising, but losing one of the 7 recruits from the Class of 2015 is not.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:I love when people say recruits brought in by the coach aren't a loss because he can go get another player. Great, what's that player going to be like?

These players were losses, especially Daniels. You need enough bodies to run this style of play.

Moton was a small loss, I think, and Humphrey's may have been addition by subtraction (he also may not have been of course). Daniels is absolutely a loss for the season starting this weekend. It reduces our looks and causes a major depth issue and will be fatal in the case of an injury as we will then have walkons playing major minutes or have Heckmann in a ball handling (not TRE kind) role.

Fuck him. He couldn't hack it.

(mood)

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:Again, the good news is that Donahue at least has some recruiting options now. We can recruit a big or a guard in 2013 if Donahue sees a player he likes. It is unfortunate that it is so late in the 2013 recruiting cycle, but with decommits and late bloomers we may be able to land another quality player.

Did you seriously just write this after vehemently arguing the exact opposite in the Recruiting thread 2 weeks ago????

Two weeks ago Jordan Daniels was still with BC.

Which was exactly the point two weeks ago of me, teddy and others... you never constrain yourself by preserving schollies when every effing year kids leave the program for reasons other than graduation. Jordan Daniels leaving the program is surprising, but losing one of the 7 recruits from the Class of 2015 is not.

Transfers out are certainly common, but I don't think you can simply assume they'll happen, or where on the roster they'll happen -- they're just too unpredictable. We may have to discuss recruiting in conditional mode: IF a transfer opens up a slot and creates a particular need, THEN BC's recruiting should be aimed in this direction. That said, it's clear that Daniels' transfer is a game changer. With the wing position covered by Owens and three slots still available for 2013 and 2014, it could make sense to take a guard in both years if Donahue wants to run a guard-oriented offense -- but recruit availability will have a lot to do with what actually happens.

RedBaron67 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:Again, the good news is that Donahue at least has some recruiting options now. We can recruit a big or a guard in 2013 if Donahue sees a player he likes. It is unfortunate that it is so late in the 2013 recruiting cycle, but with decommits and late bloomers we may be able to land another quality player.

Did you seriously just write this after vehemently arguing the exact opposite in the Recruiting thread 2 weeks ago????

Two weeks ago Jordan Daniels was still with BC.

Which was exactly the point two weeks ago of me, teddy and others... you never constrain yourself by preserving schollies when every effing year kids leave the program for reasons other than graduation. Jordan Daniels leaving the program is surprising, but losing one of the 7 recruits from the Class of 2015 is not.

Transfers out are certainly common, but I don't think you can simply assume they'll happen, or where on the roster they'll happen -- they're just too unpredictable. We may have to discuss recruiting in conditional mode: IF a transfer opens up a slot and creates a particular need, THEN BC's recruiting should be aimed in this direction. That said, it's clear that Daniels' transfer is a game changer. With the wing position covered by Owens and three slots still available for 2013 and 2014, it could make sense to take a guard in both years if Donahue wants to run a guard-oriented offense -- but recruit availability will have a lot to do with what actually happens.

That's ridiculous. We are averaging like 2 transfers a year under Don. That is probably about the average of every high major program. You damn well CAN plan for the fact that we will have more ships available than graduating players.

Bottom line: We had 2 schollies to give this year before transfers... we were only able to land 1 player. Either we unnecessarily constrained ourselves and tried to preserve an extra ship for next year (as the pollyanna hoops weirdos have been argued in the Recruiting thread) or we tried to land more than one and simply failed. Essentially, Don either has real piss-poor roster management and recruiting strategy or he has terrible effing recruiters. Either way, it ain't good for BC or Don's future. That shit needs to be straightened out. Again... this would probably not happen if we still had Joe Jones or if we replaced him with someone other than an Ivy League hump.

HJS {l Wrote}:

RedBaron67 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:Again, the good news is that Donahue at least has some recruiting options now. We can recruit a big or a guard in 2013 if Donahue sees a player he likes. It is unfortunate that it is so late in the 2013 recruiting cycle, but with decommits and late bloomers we may be able to land another quality player.

Did you seriously just write this after vehemently arguing the exact opposite in the Recruiting thread 2 weeks ago????

Two weeks ago Jordan Daniels was still with BC.

Which was exactly the point two weeks ago of me, teddy and others... you never constrain yourself by preserving schollies when every effing year kids leave the program for reasons other than graduation. Jordan Daniels leaving the program is surprising, but losing one of the 7 recruits from the Class of 2015 is not.

Transfers out are certainly common, but I don't think you can simply assume they'll happen, or where on the roster they'll happen -- they're just too unpredictable. We may have to discuss recruiting in conditional mode: IF a transfer opens up a slot and creates a particular need, THEN BC's recruiting should be aimed in this direction. That said, it's clear that Daniels' transfer is a game changer. With the wing position covered by Owens and three slots still available for 2013 and 2014, it could make sense to take a guard in both years if Donahue wants to run a guard-oriented offense -- but recruit availability will have a lot to do with what actually happens.

That's ridiculous. We are averaging like 2 transfers a year under Don. That is probably about the average of every high major program. You damn well CAN plan for the fact that we will have more ships available than graduating players.

Bottom line: We had 2 schollies to give this year before transfers... we were only able to land 1 player. Either we unnecessarily constrained ourselves and tried to preserve an extra ship for next year (as the pollyanna hoops weirdos have been argued in the Recruiting thread) or we tried to land more than one and simply failed. Essentially, Don either has real piss-poor roster management and recruiting strategy or he has terrible effing recruiters. Either way, it ain't good for BC or Don's future. That shit needs to be straightened out. Again... this would probably not happen if we still had Joe Jones or if we replaced him with someone other than an Ivy League hump.

None of this means that.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

RedBaron67 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:Again, the good news is that Donahue at least has some recruiting options now. We can recruit a big or a guard in 2013 if Donahue sees a player he likes. It is unfortunate that it is so late in the 2013 recruiting cycle, but with decommits and late bloomers we may be able to land another quality player.

Did you seriously just write this after vehemently arguing the exact opposite in the Recruiting thread 2 weeks ago????

Two weeks ago Jordan Daniels was still with BC.

Which was exactly the point two weeks ago of me, teddy and others... you never constrain yourself by preserving schollies when every effing year kids leave the program for reasons other than graduation. Jordan Daniels leaving the program is surprising, but losing one of the 7 recruits from the Class of 2015 is not.

Transfers out are certainly common, but I don't think you can simply assume they'll happen, or where on the roster they'll happen -- they're just too unpredictable. We may have to discuss recruiting in conditional mode: IF a transfer opens up a slot and creates a particular need, THEN BC's recruiting should be aimed in this direction. That said, it's clear that Daniels' transfer is a game changer. With the wing position covered by Owens and three slots still available for 2013 and 2014, it could make sense to take a guard in both years if Donahue wants to run a guard-oriented offense -- but recruit availability will have a lot to do with what actually happens.

That's ridiculous. We are averaging like 2 transfers a year under Don. That is probably about the average of every high major program. You damn well CAN plan for the fact that we will have more ships available than graduating players.

Bottom line: We had 2 schollies to give this year before transfers... we were only able to land 1 player. Either we unnecessarily constrained ourselves and tried to preserve an extra ship for next year (as the pollyanna hoops weirdos have been argued in the Recruiting thread) or we tried to land more than one and simply failed. Essentially, Don either has real piss-poor roster management and recruiting strategy or he has terrible effing recruiters. Either way, it ain't good for BC or Don's future. That shit needs to be straightened out. Again... this would probably not happen if we still had Joe Jones or if we replaced him with someone other than an Ivy League hump.

None of this means that.

I'm not a fan of the HJS anti-Don hoops agenda.

MilitantEagle {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

RedBaron67 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:Again, the good news is that Donahue at least has some recruiting options now. We can recruit a big or a guard in 2013 if Donahue sees a player he likes. It is unfortunate that it is so late in the 2013 recruiting cycle, but with decommits and late bloomers we may be able to land another quality player.

Did you seriously just write this after vehemently arguing the exact opposite in the Recruiting thread 2 weeks ago????

Two weeks ago Jordan Daniels was still with BC.

Which was exactly the point two weeks ago of me, teddy and others... you never constrain yourself by preserving schollies when every effing year kids leave the program for reasons other than graduation. Jordan Daniels leaving the program is surprising, but losing one of the 7 recruits from the Class of 2015 is not.

Transfers out are certainly common, but I don't think you can simply assume they'll happen, or where on the roster they'll happen -- they're just too unpredictable. We may have to discuss recruiting in conditional mode: IF a transfer opens up a slot and creates a particular need, THEN BC's recruiting should be aimed in this direction. That said, it's clear that Daniels' transfer is a game changer. With the wing position covered by Owens and three slots still available for 2013 and 2014, it could make sense to take a guard in both years if Donahue wants to run a guard-oriented offense -- but recruit availability will have a lot to do with what actually happens.

That's ridiculous. We are averaging like 2 transfers a year under Don. That is probably about the average of every high major program. You damn well CAN plan for the fact that we will have more ships available than graduating players.

Bottom line: We had 2 schollies to give this year before transfers... we were only able to land 1 player. Either we unnecessarily constrained ourselves and tried to preserve an extra ship for next year (as the pollyanna hoops weirdos have been argued in the Recruiting thread) or we tried to land more than one and simply failed. Essentially, Don either has real piss-poor roster management and recruiting strategy or he has terrible effing recruiters. Either way, it ain't good for BC or Don's future. That shit needs to be straightened out. Again... this would probably not happen if we still had Joe Jones or if we replaced him with someone other than an Ivy League hump.

None of this means that.

I'm not a fan of the HJS anti-Don hoops agenda.

As always, he overstates an otherwise valid point. You can certainly have questions about recruiting. HJS treats it like pre-2004 Red Sox fan watching the postseason. Guessing he likes the Mets, Knicks and Jets, though he will pretend to like the Giants.

There are way too many agendas in the conte weird0 forum

claver2010 {l Wrote}:There are way too many agendas in the conte weird0 forum

this.

It would be convenient if someone could list them all in one place to help avoid confusion. I'll start:

eepstein - Donahue does not recruit ACC-caliber players.

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:There are way too many agendas in the conte weird0 forum

this.

It would be convenient if someone could list them all in one place to help avoid confusion. I'll start:

eepstein - Donahue does not recruit ACC-caliber players.

Ballgame - Daniels should be the starting PG Need to recruit a god damn power forward.

Whoever said Moton was a loss he's playing at freaking Bentley. Addition by subtraction.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:Whoever said Moton was a loss he's playing at freaking Bentley. Addition by subtraction.

Counterpoint: the obvious replacement for hours minutes is a walkon.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:Whoever said Moton was a loss he's playing at freaking Bentley. Addition by subtraction.

Counterpoint: the obvious replacement for hours minutes is a walkon.

Counterpoint 2: he was the only player on the roster who played decent defense. Anyway, this whole thread is a slight variation on the argument people had when Noreen and Heslip left. Some were excited because "That's two more scholarships for the new coach to use, and those guys aren't D1 caliber anyway." The obvious counterpoint was "Yes, but now you're replacing them with no one for an entire year. Having talented players is important, but having players is more important."

This of course doesn't even address the fact that many here are drastically underselling Daniels' abilities. Epstein probably thinks Dudley is the last player we had who could hold his own in a pickup game at the plex.

apbc12 {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:Whoever said Moton was a loss he's playing at freaking Bentley. Addition by subtraction.

Counterpoint: the obvious replacement for hours minutes is a walkon.

Counterpoint 2: he was the only player on the roster who played decent defense. Anyway, this whole thread is a slight variation on the argument people had when Noreen and Heslip left. Some were excited because "That's two more scholarships for the new coach to use, and those guys aren't D1 caliber anyway." The obvious counterpoint was "Yes, but now you're replacing them with no one for an entire year. Having talented players is important, but having players is more important."

This of course doesn't even address the fact that many here are drastically underselling Daniels' abilities. Epstein probably thinks Dudley is the last player we had who could hold his own in a pickup game at the plex.

Dudley was a once in a lifetime player. The reality is that the recruiting services almost never miss like that. Listen, Skinner figured it out how to win with misfit toys but Donahue has proven to be a miserable recruitier. He can't find diamonds in the rough like Skinner. He can't get the big name recruits like Ed Cooley and the Hurleys. Compare our classes to MAryland or NC State. You think this Ivy League guy and Nat Graham and the other guy can get it done on the recruiting trail, no way!

Daniels was awful just like the other bums on last years team. They lost to powerhouses like Penn State and URI for a reason. They have no rebounding, they play soft, they have no defense, the only player worth anything was Matt Humphrey who was a bigtime recruit before signing with Oregon.

If anyone thinks the kid from Quebec and the white guy with the bum knee make a difference I have a brigde to seel you.

word is that the Daniels mess has team morale VERY LOW.

SJeagle09 {l Wrote}:word is that the Daniels mess has team morale VERY LOW.

Pissed at Daniels? Pissed at Donahue? Upset about prospects of success?

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

SJeagle09 {l Wrote}:word is that the Daniels mess has team morale VERY LOW.

Pissed at Daniels? Pissed at Donahue? Upset about prospects of success?

No worries. Spaz is available for a pre-game rah rah speech before the tip-off Sunday.

SJeagle09 {l Wrote}:word is that the Daniels mess has team morale VERY LOW.

Where did you hear this?

Now we're getting asinine comparisons to Dudley? Wasn't Dudley am extremely mediocre freshman player?

Skinner was an awful game day coach who brought in a lot of talent. Is that better than our current situation? I don't think so, because I'd rather see us have a coach get the most out of his players than see us with 3 NBA players and underperform to the point where we can't even execute an inbound pass when we need to.

Donahue may or may not be the answer. We all expect that he needs some significant improvement over last year to (1) justify his job and (2) get recruiting going. The loss of Daniels is a shot in the nuts no matter how whatever idiot wants to rationalize it. Humphrey, Moton? Yea, maybe not huge losses but I certainly wish we had one of them back now. All three of these guys were adequate players on last year's team, and all three of them are gone. Who have we replaced them with? Two freshman, when we were already shorthanded last year. The don can still be successful, but this is a setback. Whatever return to basketball success we might have could easily be another year away because of the impact the X fewer wins the loss of those three has driven. Say what you want about them, they were all above average on last years team (which hasn't changed that much).

No, Dudley wasn't a mediocre freshman player; he started and averaged 12.5 ppg.

Losing Daniels just before the beginning of the season is undoubtedly a blow to the team's prospects this year. With only a three-guard rotation (plus maybe a few minutes from Heckmann), Donahue won't be able to play the guard-oriented offense he wants to play. Seeing that we already have Owens and Dragicevich coming in next year, Donahue will undoubtedly be shopping for a guard in 2013. Other possible subtractions from the roster before the end of the academic year are Caudill (lack of PT), Odio (lack of PT), and Heckmann (pro ball in Germany). The next 12-18 months are when we'll see whether Donahue can cut it as a recruiter in the ACC or whether we'll have a new coach (sooner rather than later given the change of AD -- a new AD is usually happier with his own choices in the major coaching slots).

RedBaron67 {l Wrote}:No, Dudley wasn't a mediocre freshman player; he started and averaged 12.5 ppg.

Losing Daniels just before the beginning of the season is undoubtedly a blow to the team's prospects this year. With only a three-guard rotation (plus maybe a few minutes from Heckmann), Donahue won't be able to play the guard-oriented offense he wants to play. Seeing that we already have Owens and Dragicevich coming in next year, Donahue will undoubtedly be shopping for a guard in 2013. Other possible subtractions from the roster before the end of the academic year are Caudill (lack of PT), Odio (lack of PT), and Heckmann (pro ball in Germany). The next 12-18 months are when we'll see whether Donahue can cut it as a recruiter in the ACC or whether we'll have a new coach (sooner rather than later given the change of AD -- a new AD is usually happier with his own choices in the major coaching slots).

Odio will be this team's backup 4, mark it down