When did you stop supporting JOB? Skinner? Donahue?

[nerd]

Corollary thread for basketball.

I don't think Jim O'Brien stirs up the same emotions that Tom does. And I hope it's still way too early for anyone to have given up hope on Donahue, but I included them just to cover the last three coaches (same as the football thread). I'd expect that most discussion will revolve around Skinner.

March 19, 2005 - Losing to UMW in the second round was the first time my support of Skinner wavered. But Skinner definitely won me back when the team almost won the ACC tournament in year #1 in the conference. The loss to Villanova wasn't easy to take, but it wasn't enough to push me back to where I was after UMW. The year after that, I believe that BC would have gone far with *** *******, but getting ousted by a Final Four team in the second round isn't a reason to or or .

Missing the tournament in 2008 wasn't easy, but I still had hope for the future as the freshman class looked promising. 2009, we were again upset in the NCAAs, but it's hard to see the 8/9 and 7/10 games as upsets.

If I had to pinpoint a time when I really thought it was time for a change, it would be the loss to Harvard in 2009-10. I can understand that in basketball, letting your guard down against lesser teams happens, but when you've lost to Harvard the year before and you've already lost to Maine, that kind of loss is just inexcusable.

[twballgame9]

I always liked JOB's success. Never paid enough attention to the other stuff. I seem to recall taking his side on the whole Tyler/Bradley/Allenspach thing, and only learned later of the other stuff that he had going on - here on the boards and when things came to light at OSU. But on court, I guess I had lower standards for hoop then, and always liked his teams, even though in retrospect, he wasn't that great of a coach.

I'm a huge Skinner guy, and hate when people compare him to TOB. I recognize that there were indications that he was no longer getting it done. I guess I knew he had to go when the Sanders recruiting class did so horribly as juniors - there was simply little to no improvement from guys that had some talent (you saw this the following year when the Don got guys in shape).

I am fully on the Don bandwagon. I won't really start to even question him unless and until they struggle next season - when the big class are juniors.

EDIT - I will question things like his horrendous substitution patterns, but I meant question his outlook for the program as a whole.

[eepstein0]

I always liked JOB's success. Never paid enough attention to the other stuff. I seem to recall taking his side on the whole Tyler/Bradley/Allenspach thing, and only learned later of the other stuff that he had going on - here on the boards and when things came to light at OSU. But on court, I guess I had lower standards for hoop then, and always liked his teams, even though in retrospect, he wasn't that great of a coach.

I'm a huge Skinner guy, and hate when people compare him to TOB. I recognize that there were indications that he was no longer getting it done. I guess I knew he had to go when the Sanders recruiting class did so horribly as juniors - there was simply little to no improvement from guys that had some talent (you saw this the following year when the Don got guys in shape).

I am fully on the Don bandwagon. I won't really start to even question him unless and until they struggle next season - when the big class are juniors.

EDIT - I will question things like his horrendous substitution patterns, but I meant question his outlook for the program as a whole.

Agree on JOB and basically the same on Skinner. Al's tenure went south when we brought in that horrendous Sanders/Southern recruiting class. Skinner was also a miserable in-game coach.

I'm fine with Donahue so far. I'll also agree on the substitution patterns, there's no reason sometimes at all. He puts players in there that have absolutely no chance to succeed.

[DuchesneEast]

I still like JOB so that sucks.

I was off Skinner when we lost to Nova, which was coincidentally his high point. Actually that's not true, I still liked him when we got fatty. I just got to see when I lost faith in that class.

Still like the Don, but that could change by this Feb.

[eagle9903]

I was not a fan of the program under JOB, I had no affiliation with the school.

I liked Skinner until the day he was let go, but he went from one of my favorite coaches in any sport to a guy I thought was just good enough. I am also not upset he is no longer the coach.

I still like Donahue.

[bignick33]

JOB: I was like 12, so I didn't really understand stuff.

Al: I didn't lose support for him during his tenure, and I still haven't. But, I wouldn't have had a problem if they hacked him the year before they did. I thought hacking him when they did--resulting in consecutive empty recruiting classes--was a huge mistake. I think he's a very good coach who may have been a bit too comfortable by the end, and he made some mistakes in his assistant coach hires after the first group went on to become head coaches.

Don: I support him, and I think it was a solid hire, but we'll learn a lot more this year. He faced a monumental task (see timing issue above), and it is still unclear if he is up to it. He is a very good X and Os guy, but I've found him to be arrogant at times (in particular, in the hiring of his assistants and stubborn adherence to his system). It's possible that I'm confusing arrogance for confidence in himself and having steadfast convictions.

[claver2010]

You guys hit on an important distinction -the difference between concern in day to day (or game to game) decisions vs. the overall direction of the program.

JOB: N/A

Al: I hated his gameday decision making throughout my BC basketball viewing experience. I can't pinpoint a game but 2009-10 was an absolute failure. Starting with that Virgin Island tournament through the dud in the ACC tourney.

Donahue: I'm still drinking the koolaid. I have some questions but I believe the program is headed in the right direction.

[eepstein0]

You guys hit on an important distinction -the difference between concern in day to day (or game to game) decisions vs. the overall direction of the program.

JOB: N/A

Al: I hated his gameday decision making throughout my BC basketball viewing experience. I can't pinpoint a game but 2009-10 was an absolute failure. Starting with that Virgin Island tournament through the dud in the ACC tourney.

Donahue: I'm still drinking the koolaid. I have some questions but I believe the program is headed in the right direction.

Al's in-game coaching was just simply disastrous. Play-calls, in-bounds plays, etc. were a freaking nightmare.

[claver2010]

I think my favorite was the team's in ability to ever break a full court press.

Their plan was always throw it to the PG who was trapped in the corner.

[DavidGordonsFoot]

JOB - I didn't start following BC hoops until his last year at The Heights. At the time, I was disappointed that he left because, unlike the football team, the basketball team had made the post-season that year. I stopped supporting him in 2004 when I heard how much of a crook he was at tOSU.

Skinner - The UW-M game. Skinner's teams always had trouble with the press, and that was when it finally bit him in the ass. A 25-5(13-3) season flushed down the toilet... I realized then that Skinner's inability to coach how to beat one of the elementary defensive strategies in basketball meant that it didn't matter who Al recruited, because he was flawed as a coach at the fundamental level. He was never taking BC to the Final Four.

Donahue - Like claver, I'm still drinking the koolaid.

[larrydoby]

I never stop supporting Skinner and still feel he got a raw deal. Once he got the program back on the right track, he never had two bad seasons in a row and and I believe he deserved at least one more year. If all his players came back plus the recruting class he had coming in, they would have easilybeen a NCAA tournament team that season.

The criticisms I read on these sites over the years never made sense to me. Although, he won more games than any BC coach ever, they say he couldn't coach. I also read that he couldn't recruit. In a non- college basketall town, at a totally apathetic school, somehow he won consistently.

[DavidGordonsFoot]

I also read that he couldn't recruit.

Statements like that are backlash for the empty recruiting class. Al could find talent. But he recruited a lot of guys with character issues that alumni were uncomfortable with. That's another reason why this might have been posted.

[Ahzeem]

JOB: I was like 12, so I didn't really understand stuff.

Al: I didn't lose support for him during his tenure, and I still haven't. But, I wouldn't have had a problem if they hacked him the year before they did. I thought hacking him when they did--resulting in consecutive empty recruiting classes--was a huge mistake. I think he's a very good coach who may have been a bit too comfortable by the end, and he made some mistakes in his assistant coach hires after the first group went on to become head coaches.

Don: I support him, and I think it was a solid hire, but we'll learn a lot more this year. He faced a monumental task (see timing issue above), and it is still unclear if he is up to it. He is a very good X and Os guy, but I've found him to be arrogant at times (in particular, in the hiring of his assistants and stubborn adherence to his system). It's possible that I'm confusing arrogance for confidence in himself and having steadfast convictions.

...It may be the latter, I believe the Don is steadfast in his convictions. He is being somewhat revolutionary in his team building and player selection. He looks for the right type of players that fit his system. He looks for team oriented players that will pass first shoot and second. Drive, pass, pass knock down you have to have players will to share the ball with their teammates and he is sold out that it works. His most frustrating moments seem to be when they just didn’t stay within the plan. He cleaned house and has a good foundation I see big things for BC

[larrydoby]

I also read that he couldn't recruit.

Statements like that are backlash for the empty recruiting class. Al could find talent. But he recruited a lot of guys with character issues that alumni were uncomfortable with. That's another reason why this might have been posted.

He recruited " a lot of guys with character issues"? A lot? Like who? Remember, he was there 13 years

[Mike_S]

JOB: He lost me almost from the get-go, especially after following coaches who had BC very competitive from when I was a kid. Certainly by year 4 or 5 of his regime. Was a very poor recruiter for a very long time, team was rarely competitive. Poor in-game coach other than half-court defense, substitution patterns were incredibly maddening. When his recruits finally got better (Curley, etc.) his team constantly underachieved for just shy of 4 years. Even his great run w the UNC win and Indiana win in the NCAAs almost didn't happen as the team mailed it in in the Big East Tourney against Georgetown, and sleep-walked through the Washington State NCAA game for like 32 minutes. Finally had a solid run with Scoonie Penn and Danya Abrams, but too little too late for him to win me over. Recruiting issues at the end were horrible.

Skinner: Loved him, he never lost me even at the end. Team was always competitive with chip on their shoulder. Troy Bell team was a joy to watch, as was Smith/Dudley teams. Less-than-ideal in-game coach sometimes, and disappointing in the NCAAs, but still loved the consistency he brought. Plus many of his recruits were excellent players even when not highly regarded coming in.

Donahue: Hasn't lost me yet. Love his in-game teaching style, but jury is out on results. Will likely not know for 2 more years, will depend on recruiting, ability to develop players, etc.

[eepstein0]

I think my favorite was the team's in ability to ever break a full court press.

Their plan was always throw it to the PG who was trapped in the corner.

When he recruited players that could cover up for his in-game coaching he was fine. When he missed on those under the radar guys we were in trouble.

[claver2010]

I also read that he couldn't recruit.

Statements like that are backlash for the empty recruiting class. Al could find talent. But he recruited a lot of guys with character issues that alumni were uncomfortable with. That's another reason why this might have been posted.

He recruited " a lot of guys with character issues"? A lot? Like who? Remember, he was there 13 years

Oh please, we don't want to go through this.

[eepstein0]

I also read that he couldn't recruit.

Statements like that are backlash for the empty recruiting class. Al could find talent. But he recruited a lot of guys with character issues that alumni were uncomfortable with. That's another reason why this might have been posted.

He recruited " a lot of guys with character issues"? A lot? Like who? Remember, he was there 13 years

Oh please, we don't want to go through this.

Bryant and had serious character issues. All in all, I'm totally cool with him taking risks on kids like that. You hit on some you miss on others.

[twballgame9]

I also read that he couldn't recruit.

Statements like that are backlash for the empty recruiting class. Al could find talent. But he recruited a lot of guys with character issues that alumni were uncomfortable with. That's another reason why this might have been posted.

He recruited " a lot of guys with character issues"? A lot? Like who? Remember, he was there 13 years

Oh please, we don't want to go through this.

Bryant and had serious character issues. All in all, I'm totally cool with him taking risks on kids like that. You hit on some you miss on others.

Yeah, frankly you have to take chances on kids like that. Sometimes they work out. Even was a net plus for most of his time here. Likewise with Sydney and the roof jumper. Bryant and McLain are a different story.

[Shaddix]

I remember reading an article by Bob Ryan on how Skinner became the laziest coach in the NCAAs. I'm not sure how true it was, but Gene seemed to believe it. The article said that BC's assistants ran the practices and did a lot of the coaching on their own.

excerpt

Al is Al is Al. I had to smile when I saw that St. John's was interviewing Al. Doesn't St. John's understand that Al is the least-hard-working guy in show business, that in the world of Division 1 college basketball, there is absolutely no one like him? In a world of 24/7/365 basketball zealots, Al is Mr. Casual.

Al works Al hours, arriving around noon, playing some pickup ball, and going to a practice that, more than likely, had been planned by an assistant. Don't they know how infrequently Al is seen on the recruiting trail during the off season, when games are really won and lost? Don't they know that if you hire Al, you must supply him with a first-class recruiting assistant, one who totally understands Al's likes, dislikes, and peculiarities? Don't they know, that, when it comes to offense, Al is, ahem, inflexible?

I don't really know why I was thinking about this, but since BC interviewed Cooley as HC the year Al was fired..... Wouldn't one think that they would have been leaning towards Cooley to be the HC over the unproven recruiter (Donahue).

2006–2007 Fairfield 13–19 10–8 T–5th
2007–2008 Fairfield 14–16 11–7 T–5th
2008–2009 Fairfield 17–15 9–9 T-4th
2009–2010 Fairfield 23–11 13–5 2nd CIT 2nd Round

Those were Cooley's years at Fairfield that BC was looking at when they interviewed him.

[eepstein0]

I remember reading an article by Bob Ryan on how Skinner became the laziest coach in the NCAAs. I'm not sure how true it was, but Gene seemed to believe it. The article said that BC's assistants ran the practices and did a lot of the coaching on their own.

excerpt

Al is Al is Al. I had to smile when I saw that St. John's was interviewing Al. Doesn't St. John's understand that Al is the least-hard-working guy in show business, that in the world of Division 1 college basketball, there is absolutely no one like him? In a world of 24/7/365 basketball zealots, Al is Mr. Casual.

Al works Al hours, arriving around noon, playing some pickup ball, and going to a practice that, more than likely, had been planned by an assistant. Don't they know how infrequently Al is seen on the recruiting trail during the off season, when games are really won and lost? Don't they know that if you hire Al, you must supply him with a first-class recruiting assistant, one who totally understands Al's likes, dislikes, and peculiarities? Don't they know, that, when it comes to offense, Al is, ahem, inflexible?

I don't really know why I was thinking about this, but since BC interviewed Cooley as HC the year Al was fired..... Wouldn't one think that they would have been leaning towards Cooley to be the HC over the unproven recruiter (Donahue).

2006–2007 Fairfield 13–19 10–8 T–5th
2007–2008 Fairfield 14–16 11–7 T–5th
2008–2009 Fairfield 17–15 9–9 T-4th
2009–2010 Fairfield 23–11 13–5 2nd CIT 2nd Round

Those were Cooley's years at Fairfield that BC was looking at when they interviewed him.

I didn't catch a ton of Providence games last year. Cooley can certainly recruit but the question is can he coach.

[Shaddix]

I remember reading an article by Bob Ryan on how Skinner became the laziest coach in the NCAAs. I'm not sure how true it was, but Gene seemed to believe it. The article said that BC's assistants ran the practices and did a lot of the coaching on their own.

excerpt

Al is Al is Al. I had to smile when I saw that St. John's was interviewing Al. Doesn't St. John's understand that Al is the least-hard-working guy in show business, that in the world of Division 1 college basketball, there is absolutely no one like him? In a world of 24/7/365 basketball zealots, Al is Mr. Casual.

Al works Al hours, arriving around noon, playing some pickup ball, and going to a practice that, more than likely, had been planned by an assistant. Don't they know how infrequently Al is seen on the recruiting trail during the off season, when games are really won and lost? Don't they know that if you hire Al, you must supply him with a first-class recruiting assistant, one who totally understands Al's likes, dislikes, and peculiarities? Don't they know, that, when it comes to offense, Al is, ahem, inflexible?

I don't really know why I was thinking about this, but since BC interviewed Cooley as HC the year Al was fired..... Wouldn't one think that they would have been leaning towards Cooley to be the HC over the unproven recruiter (Donahue).

2006–2007 Fairfield 13–19 10–8 T–5th
2007–2008 Fairfield 14–16 11–7 T–5th
2008–2009 Fairfield 17–15 9–9 T-4th
2009–2010 Fairfield 23–11 13–5 2nd CIT 2nd Round

Those were Cooley's years at Fairfield that BC was looking at when they interviewed him.

I didn't catch a ton of Providence games last year. Cooley can certainly recruit but the question is can he coach.

I'm the same way, but he certainly had success at Fairfield, without question. Fairfield actually has another good coach in Sydney Johnson

[eepstein0]

I remember reading an article by Bob Ryan on how Skinner became the laziest coach in the NCAAs. I'm not sure how true it was, but Gene seemed to believe it. The article said that BC's assistants ran the practices and did a lot of the coaching on their own.

excerpt

Al is Al is Al. I had to smile when I saw that St. John's was interviewing Al. Doesn't St. John's understand that Al is the least-hard-working guy in show business, that in the world of Division 1 college basketball, there is absolutely no one like him? In a world of 24/7/365 basketball zealots, Al is Mr. Casual.

Al works Al hours, arriving around noon, playing some pickup ball, and going to a practice that, more than likely, had been planned by an assistant. Don't they know how infrequently Al is seen on the recruiting trail during the off season, when games are really won and lost? Don't they know that if you hire Al, you must supply him with a first-class recruiting assistant, one who totally understands Al's likes, dislikes, and peculiarities? Don't they know, that, when it comes to offense, Al is, ahem, inflexible?

I don't really know why I was thinking about this, but since BC interviewed Cooley as HC the year Al was fired..... Wouldn't one think that they would have been leaning towards Cooley to be the HC over the unproven recruiter (Donahue).

2006–2007 Fairfield 13–19 10–8 T–5th
2007–2008 Fairfield 14–16 11–7 T–5th
2008–2009 Fairfield 17–15 9–9 T-4th
2009–2010 Fairfield 23–11 13–5 2nd CIT 2nd Round

Those were Cooley's years at Fairfield that BC was looking at when they interviewed him.

I didn't catch a ton of Providence games last year. Cooley can certainly recruit but the question is can he coach.

I'm the same way, but he certainly had success at Fairfield, without question. Fairfield actually has another good coach in Sydney Johnson

Winning at Fairfield is a little different than winning in the Big East.

[Shaddix]

I remember reading an article by Bob Ryan on how Skinner became the laziest coach in the NCAAs. I'm not sure how true it was, but Gene seemed to believe it. The article said that BC's assistants ran the practices and did a lot of the coaching on their own.

excerpt

Al is Al is Al. I had to smile when I saw that St. John's was interviewing Al. Doesn't St. John's understand that Al is the least-hard-working guy in show business, that in the world of Division 1 college basketball, there is absolutely no one like him? In a world of 24/7/365 basketball zealots, Al is Mr. Casual.

Al works Al hours, arriving around noon, playing some pickup ball, and going to a practice that, more than likely, had been planned by an assistant. Don't they know how infrequently Al is seen on the recruiting trail during the off season, when games are really won and lost? Don't they know that if you hire Al, you must supply him with a first-class recruiting assistant, one who totally understands Al's likes, dislikes, and peculiarities? Don't they know, that, when it comes to offense, Al is, ahem, inflexible?

I don't really know why I was thinking about this, but since BC interviewed Cooley as HC the year Al was fired..... Wouldn't one think that they would have been leaning towards Cooley to be the HC over the unproven recruiter (Donahue).

2006–2007 Fairfield 13–19 10–8 T–5th
2007–2008 Fairfield 14–16 11–7 T–5th
2008–2009 Fairfield 17–15 9–9 T-4th
2009–2010 Fairfield 23–11 13–5 2nd CIT 2nd Round

Those were Cooley's years at Fairfield that BC was looking at when they interviewed him.

I didn't catch a ton of Providence games last year. Cooley can certainly recruit but the question is can he coach.

I'm the same way, but he certainly had success at Fairfield, without question. Fairfield actually has another good coach in Sydney Johnson

Winning at Fairfield is a little different than winning in the Big East.

So? There are terrible in game coaches in the ACC just last season (Greenberg, Hamilton, Bzdelik) Bzdelik is iffy, I don't like him personally...but there are some people that think he's a decent coach I suppose.

Sydney Johnson also beat out Tommy Amaker in the Ivy

[Shredder]

I was down on Skinner after the UWM game but the 2005-06 season made up for it even with the loss to Villanova. I was never out with him because I thought that as long as he continued to build competitive teams, one of these years it would call come together and the team would go deep. I thought that would happen with the Sanders class and was bolstered with the start of the 2008-09 season that included the win over UNC. I wrote off the Harvard loss as one of those funny things in sports. What really did it for me was the USC loss in the first round of the NCAA tournament. That game was a microcosm of all of the team's flaws in the years under Skinner and confirmation that they just wouldn't get to the next level with him.

[eepstein0]

I was down on Skinner after the UWM game but the 2005-06 season made up for it even with the loss to Villanova. I was never out with him because I thought that as long as he continued to build competitive teams, one of these years it would call come together and the team would go deep. I thought that would happen with the Sanders class and was bolstered with the start of the 2008-09 season that included the win over UNC. I wrote off the Harvard loss as one of those funny things in sports. What really did it for me was the USC loss in the first round of the NCAA tournament. That game was a microcosm of all of the team's flaws in the years under Skinner and confirmation that they just wouldn't get to the next level with him.

We were up 4 at the half in that game and then just fell apart. Remember that USC team had a couple NBA players on it so they weren't bad.

Al was still a piss-poor in-game coach but I don't blame the USC loss on him.

[Shredder]

I was down on Skinner after the UWM game but the 2005-06 season made up for it even with the loss to Villanova. I was never out with him because I thought that as long as he continued to build competitive teams, one of these years it would call come together and the team would go deep. I thought that would happen with the Sanders class and was bolstered with the start of the 2008-09 season that included the win over UNC. I wrote off the Harvard loss as one of those funny things in sports. What really did it for me was the USC loss in the first round of the NCAA tournament. That game was a microcosm of all of the team's flaws in the years under Skinner and confirmation that they just wouldn't get to the next level with him.

We were up 4 at the half in that game and then just fell apart. Remember that USC team had a couple NBA players on it so they weren't bad.

Al was still a piss-poor in-game coach but I don't blame the USC loss on him.

USC was good as they went on to play MSU close in the next round, but the meltdown was it. It just seemed like the same old story of coming out flat in a tournament game.

[bluefishskip]

USC beat Kentucky in the next round and lost to Duke in the Regional Finals. Scalabrine was the 2nd leading scorer on the team.

[eepstein0]

USC beat Kentucky in the next round and lost to Duke in the Regional Finals. Scalabrine was the 2nd leading scorer on the team.

Salabrine wasn't on that team. I'm talking the USC team that played Tyrese Rice.

[twballgame9]

It was DeRozan and Taj Gibson. The USC team that Al lost to the first time was actually good. Like the Texas team with TJ Ford.

The only really bad loss of the Al era in the NCAA's was UWM and that was because Al didn't know how to break a press and Pearl knew it. They also had some real sketchy wins. There were some disappointing loses and tough endings, like Nova, where Al got out coached at the end, but he did something right to have his team up on the 1 seed in the first place. They played some good teams.