ACC Rookie of the Year?

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ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby BCEagles25 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:57 pm

Candidates PPG RPG APG
Rasheed Sulaimon - 11.9 / 3.4 / 2.2
Olivier Hanlan - 14.5 / 4.1 / 2.4
TJ Warren - 12.1 / 4.0 / 0.9
KJ McDaniels - 10.7 / 4.9 / 0.7
Marcus Georges-Hunt - 10.7 / 4.9 / 1.2
Joe Rahon - 10 / 3 / 3.6

We all know what the answer should be... scrush2. but, who is Hanlan's biggest competitor? TJ Warren, fresh off his 31-13 game?
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby commavegarage on Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:53 pm

scrush 2.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:20 pm

I voted for pearl necklace
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby joeyfenn on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:00 pm

Hanlan needs to finish extremely strong. If he doesn't have another marquee performance then he doesnt stand a shot with these voters
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby pick6pedro on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:48 pm

joeyfenn wrote:with these voters


This
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:33 am

Letting Suliaman drop 27 on you probably just about ends the ACC ROY talk.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby eagle9903 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:36 am

twballgame9 wrote:Letting Suliaman drop 27 on you probably just about ends the ACC ROY talk.


I mean it shouldn't, since he dropped 20 on Sulaimon the last time around and the rest of the season did happen, but it probably does.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:40 am

eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Letting Suliaman drop 27 on you probably just about ends the ACC ROY talk.


I mean it shouldn't, since he dropped 20 on Sulaimon the last time around and the rest of the season did happen, but it probably does.


I'm not completely sold that Hanlan with an A is the ROY, but yes, it is unfair that one game should make the difference. But such is life, his team stinks.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby eagle9903 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:46 am

twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Letting Suliaman drop 27 on you probably just about ends the ACC ROY talk.


I mean it shouldn't, since he dropped 20 on Sulaimon the last time around and the rest of the season did happen, but it probably does.


I'm not completely sold that Hanlan with an A is the ROY, but yes, it is unfair that one game should make the difference. But such is life, his team stinks.


Who else is if not Hanlan? Warren? because I thought his team stinks too? also he is very inconsistent.

Being honest, Sulaimon wouldn't be ridiculous but I think the advantage of the ten million one on one matchups and open looks he gets a game should be more of a negative for him than Hanlan's extra minutes for being on a team with no depth but being the focus of defenses.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:51 am

eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Letting Suliaman drop 27 on you probably just about ends the ACC ROY talk.


I mean it shouldn't, since he dropped 20 on Sulaimon the last time around and the rest of the season did happen, but it probably does.


I'm not completely sold that Hanlan with an A is the ROY, but yes, it is unfair that one game should make the difference. But such is life, his team stinks.


Who else is if not Hanlan? Warren? because I thought his team stinks too? also he is very inconsistent.

Being honest, Sulaimon wouldn't be ridiculous but I think the advantage of the ten million one on one matchups and open looks he gets a game should be more of a negative for him than Hanlan's extra minutes for being on a team with no depth but being the focus of defenses.


You gave that about one sentence more thought than the voters will.

There's no doubt that Hanlan with an A is one of the top 2-3 candidates. I just find the indignant position of everyone here, as if he should be a foregone conclusion, absurd.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby pick6pedro on Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:15 pm

twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Letting Suliaman drop 27 on you probably just about ends the ACC ROY talk.


I mean it shouldn't, since he dropped 20 on Sulaimon the last time around and the rest of the season did happen, but it probably does.


I'm not completely sold that Hanlan with an A is the ROY, but yes, it is unfair that one game should make the difference. But such is life, his team stinks.


Who else is if not Hanlan? Warren? because I thought his team stinks too? also he is very inconsistent.

Being honest, Sulaimon wouldn't be ridiculous but I think the advantage of the ten million one on one matchups and open looks he gets a game should be more of a negative for him than Hanlan's extra minutes for being on a team with no depth but being the focus of defenses.


You gave that about one sentence more thought than the voters will.

There's no doubt that Hanlan with an A is one of the top 2-3 candidates. I just find the indignant position of everyone here, as if he should be a foregone conclusion, absurd.


The only one in this thread who holds that position is the originator. Everyone else who has posted here appears to have a different opinion, one that is more in-line with yours.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby BCEagles25 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:36 pm

He was the clear front-runner when this was posted. Then the Duke game happened.

...aaaand he still averages more points and rebounds per game than both Warren and Sulaimon.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:42 am

He was never the clear front runner in the minds of anyone outside of this board. And the vote won't be based on stats - it's a lot easier to post stats when you are one of two guards on the roster and play 39 minutes a game.

Nothing against him, and he is in the discussion for ROY, but the idea that he is the front runner is idiotic.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby eagle9903 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:44 am

twballgame9 wrote:He was never the clear front runner in the minds of anyone outside of this board. And the vote won't be based on stats - it's a lot easier to post stats when you are one of two guards on the roster and play 39 minutes a game.

Nothing against him, and he is in the discussion for ROY, but the idea that he is the front runner is idiotic.


It's not idiotic. "Clear" front runner is too much, but front runner prior to Duke is not idiotic.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:46 am

eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:He was never the clear front runner in the minds of anyone outside of this board. And the vote won't be based on stats - it's a lot easier to post stats when you are one of two guards on the roster and play 39 minutes a game.

Nothing against him, and he is in the discussion for ROY, but the idea that he is the front runner is idiotic.


It's not idiotic. "Clear" front runner is too much, but front runner prior to Duke is not idiotic.


Even ignoring the obvious biases against the northerners and players on shitty teams, he was never the front runner. Considering those two things, I'd put him 3 or 4 among the contenders. Unless something strange happens, Suliamon is and has been the front runner.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby 2001Eagle on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:14 am

Not to mention the clear bias against French Canadians.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby eagle9903 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:30 am

twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:He was never the clear front runner in the minds of anyone outside of this board. And the vote won't be based on stats - it's a lot easier to post stats when you are one of two guards on the roster and play 39 minutes a game.

Nothing against him, and he is in the discussion for ROY, but the idea that he is the front runner is idiotic.


It's not idiotic. "Clear" front runner is too much, but front runner prior to Duke is not idiotic.


Even ignoring the obvious biases against the northerners and players on shitty teams, he was never the front runner. Considering those two things, I'd put him 3 or 4 among the contenders. Unless something strange happens, Suliamon is and has been the front runner.


I think the field is limited to Hanlan, Sulaimon, Warren and to a lesser extent the 2 G-tech frosh, Devin Thomas could sneak into the conversation but is closer to the 2 georgia tech forwards as unrealistic IMO.

Taking away the biases as you say, the arguments by the numbers:

Hanlan (PG) 33.8 mins/game - Pts: 14.4 (6th in ACC, 2nd on team) Rebs. 4.1 (2nd on team) Assists. 2.4 (2nd on team) T/Os 2.2 of note: has most double digit scoring performances of any frosh
Sulaimon 29.9 mins/game (SG) - Pts: 13.0 (15th in ACC, tied for 3rd on team) Rebs. 3.4 Assists. 2.2 T/Os 1.3
Warren (SF) 25.7 mins/game - Pts: 12.1 Rebs: 4.0 Assists: .6 T/Os: .9 of note: has highest single game scoring performance of frosh
Georges-Hunt (SF) - Pts: 10.7 (leads team) Rebs: 4.9 (22nd in ACC, 3rd on team) Assists: 1.3 T/Os: 1.2
Carter (PF) - Pts: 9.8 (2nd on team) Rebs: 6.8 (14th in ACC, 2nd on team) Assists: .9 T/Os: 1.6
Thomas (PF) - Pts: 8.2 Rebs: 7.8 ( was 3rd in ACC before last game, leads team) Assists. 1.3 T/Os 2.4

Hanlan and Sulaimon are statistically a wash basically. Hanlan has been more consistent, Sulaimon's outburst against BC was not a normal occurrence. They split the head-to-head, but Sulaimon did so more recently and obviously more emphatically. So again, ignoring the biases, the decision comes down to whether being the guy on a team without other options should receive more or less consideration than being on a very good team that would be very good even if the player didn't exist. I think it is easily well argued, bias aside, that having a Plumlee and Larkin surrounding you makes scoring a lot easier but it also likely reduces shots (Sulaimon has 30 some less shots than Hanlan).

The argument for Warren or one of the others is pretty hard to make. Warren has been enigmatic whether based on positional glut or other reason. I think calling Hanlan 4th is way more idiotic than calling him the front runner.

edit: this is impossible to read, sorry
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby commavegarage on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:18 am

Sulaimon is gonna win it...and its not going to be very close.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby eagle9903 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:30 am

commavegarage wrote:Sulaimon is gonna win it...and its not going to be very close.


Probably, which no one except maybe Kbb25 is arguing against... but it should be.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:53 am

My only point is that the stats argument isn't going to be real relevant and is skewed slightly by 7 more minutes a game. Like I said, he's the front runner the same way Mike Trout was a lock to win MVP last season according to the stats nerds on here.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby eagle9903 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:36 pm

twballgame9 wrote:My only point is that the stats argument isn't going to be real relevant and is skewed slightly by 7 more minutes a game. Like I said, he's the front runner the same way Mike Trout was a lock to win MVP last season according to the stats nerds on here.


Its much less than 7 for Hanlan/Sulaimon, but I agree that the stats argument isn't overly important. The selection process is a) can a Duke or UNC player be named without it being a complete travishamockery; if so name such player; if not b) who has the best stats (likely with extra consideration for original ACC teams).

We are in an a) year so it will be Sulaimon.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby BCEagles25 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:37 pm

Biggest exaggerations in this thread:

"Sulaimon is gonna win it...and its not going to be very close." -commavegarage

"Considering those two things, I'd put [Hanlan] 3 or 4 among the contenders" -twballgame

"He was the clear front-runner when this was posted" -BCEagles25

"BCEagles25 is really funny and awesome" -next poster

keep 'em coming, folks. I'm on fire today.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:47 pm

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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby 73CAV on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:48 pm

I think it is probably worth remembering that last year Caulton Tudor (a North Carolina sports columnist) did not include Mike Scott on his First Team All ACC ballot. Of course, enough voters did include him so that he came in second, however Tudor's vote prevented Scott from winning the ACC POY award. Tudor's ploy insured that it would go to UNC's Tyler Zeller. And Charlottesville is a lot closer, in oh so many ways, to Tobacco Road than Boston.:)
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby MilitantEagle on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:28 pm

73CAV wrote:I think it is probably worth remembering that last year Caulton Tudor (a North Carolina sports columnist) did not include Mike Scott on his First Team All ACC ballot. Of course, enough voters did include him so that he came in second, however Tudor's vote prevented Scott from winning the ACC POY award. Tudor's ploy insured that it would go to UNC's Tyler Zeller. And Charlottesville is a lot closer, in oh so many ways, to Tobacco Road than Boston.:)


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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby eepstein0 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:58 pm

I think we can officially disqualify Hanlan based on the last two games
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:50 pm

eepstein0 wrote:I think we can officially disqualify Hanlan based on the last two games


But but but he's the clear frontrunner!
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:07 pm

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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby eagle9903 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:08 pm

if Kelly hadnt gotten hurt, Sulaimon might be out of the conversation as the 4th option.
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Re: ACC Rookie of the Year?

Postby HJS on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:03 pm

This is what posted about Hamilton last month.

As far as I can tell, Hamilton is your quintessential enigmatic big man. All the skills, build and talent to be elite... but questionable head and motivation. He also has a long history of injuries. I can't find anything about his current team and whether he is even seeing regular minutes. But, the lack of court time has been a problem for him. He was supposedly sent to IMG Academy to (a) get his grades in order and (b) develop a work ethic. Hard to excel at BC without either of those. That said... at this point... if he can get in academically (big IF), he is certainly worth a flier. If the light ever goes on, he could be exactly what the team need.

Speaking of what the team needs... any chance they can as Chukwu to reclassify to 2013. We could use him immediately.
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