Commits/Recruiting

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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby RedBaron67 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:05 pm

Shaddix wrote:
HJS wrote:Why is Jorgenson a need? We have Hanlan, Rahon, Heck, LoJack and Drags. Why do we need a 6th guy who can play the 2??? I think the priority should be Kanter, Reynolds and Kelly... probably in that order. I'd take any two of them before looking at Jorgenson.


Because he's a pure 1


This. The issue of depth aside, Hanlan and Rahon are both combo guards, neither of who is fully focused on the job of running the offense. Jorgenson, in contrast, is and always has been a pure distributor who has an effective perimeter shot when the defense backs off him to clog the passing lanes. Even if Donahue likes versatile players, someone has to take primary responsibility for 1-guard duties, and Jorgenson is a near-perfect fit. Logical recruiting priorities are for one of the three bigs above (I'd question the order -- Donahue & Co. clearly prefer Kelly, at least for now) plus Jorgenson.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:45 pm

RedBaron67 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:
HJS wrote:Why is Jorgenson a need? We have Hanlan, Rahon, Heck, LoJack and Drags. Why do we need a 6th guy who can play the 2??? I think the priority should be Kanter, Reynolds and Kelly... probably in that order. I'd take any two of them before looking at Jorgenson.


Because he's a pure 1


This. The issue of depth aside, Hanlan and Rahon are both combo guards, neither of who is fully focused on the job of running the offense. Jorgenson, in contrast, is and always has been a pure distributor who has an effective perimeter shot when the defense backs off him to clog the passing lanes. Even if Donahue likes versatile players, someone has to take primary responsibility for 1-guard duties, and Jorgenson is a near-perfect fit. Logical recruiting priorities are for one of the three bigs above (I'd question the order -- Donahue & Co. clearly prefer Kelly, at least for now) plus Jorgenson.


On what planet has this been an issue?
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby Shaddix on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:47 pm

eagle9903 wrote:
RedBaron67 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:
HJS wrote:Why is Jorgenson a need? We have Hanlan, Rahon, Heck, LoJack and Drags. Why do we need a 6th guy who can play the 2??? I think the priority should be Kanter, Reynolds and Kelly... probably in that order. I'd take any two of them before looking at Jorgenson.


Because he's a pure 1


This. The issue of depth aside, Hanlan and Rahon are both combo guards, neither of who is fully focused on the job of running the offense. Jorgenson, in contrast, is and always has been a pure distributor who has an effective perimeter shot when the defense backs off him to clog the passing lanes. Even if Donahue likes versatile players, someone has to take primary responsibility for 1-guard duties, and Jorgenson is a near-perfect fit. Logical recruiting priorities are for one of the three bigs above (I'd question the order -- Donahue & Co. clearly prefer Kelly, at least for now) plus Jorgenson.


On what planet has this been an issue?


I think depth has been an issue. Hanlan and Rahon play very close to the total 40. Probably explains why Hanlan was front rimming his free throws at the end. Jorgensen is needed and he would get his minutes if he came
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:55 pm

Shaddix wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
RedBaron67 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:
HJS wrote:Why is Jorgenson a need? We have Hanlan, Rahon, Heck, LoJack and Drags. Why do we need a 6th guy who can play the 2??? I think the priority should be Kanter, Reynolds and Kelly... probably in that order. I'd take any two of them before looking at Jorgenson.


Because he's a pure 1


This. The issue of depth aside, Hanlan and Rahon are both combo guards, neither of who is fully focused on the job of running the offense. Jorgenson, in contrast, is and always has been a pure distributor who has an effective perimeter shot when the defense backs off him to clog the passing lanes. Even if Donahue likes versatile players, someone has to take primary responsibility for 1-guard duties, and Jorgenson is a near-perfect fit. Logical recruiting priorities are for one of the three bigs above (I'd question the order -- Donahue & Co. clearly prefer Kelly, at least for now) plus Jorgenson.


On what planet has this been an issue?


I think depth has been an issue. Hanlan and Rahon play very close to the total 40. Probably explains why Hanlan was front rimming his free throws at the end. Jorgensen is needed and he would get his minutes if he came


right, but in addition to the fact that Rahon and Hanlan could easily be pure ones if we had a pure shooting guard of talent sufficient to justify the minutes, how has a lack of a "pure one" been a problem? I simply don't understand this. We are not at all turnover prone and we have two very good passing guards. Moreover, our press break has not been the reason for a loss yet even if it isn't pretty.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:58 pm

BC doesn't need a PG. They need another guard, period, preferably one that can handle a little and has a consistent jumper. That may be Jorgensen, who knows. But to me, Rahon is the PG going forward.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby Shaddix on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:04 pm

twballgame9 wrote:BC doesn't need a PG. They need another guard, period, preferably one that can handle a little and has a consistent jumper. That may be Jorgensen, who knows. But to me, Rahon is the PG going forward.


True, I shouldn't have said pure 1, but they need one that can run the point. Combo at least
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby RedBaron67 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:36 pm

Shaddix wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:BC doesn't need a PG. They need another guard, period, preferably one that can handle a little and has a consistent jumper. That may be Jorgensen, who knows. But to me, Rahon is the PG going forward.


True, I shouldn't have said pure 1, but they need one that can run the point. Combo at least


Rahon is certainly the best PG we have at present; he leads the team in assists (69), apg (3.8), and a/to ratio (1.64, compared to Jackson's 1.37 and Hanlan's 1.04), all of which is adequate, but no more than that. He has also been extremely inconsistent in his shooting. I think his best use would be as primarily a SG and a backup at PG, and that the team would do better with a PG who is unequivocally that, whose primary skills are handling and distribution, and who can score consistently when the defense gives it. With two combo guards and a SG with an adequate handle, I think the team would do better with a PG specialist added to the mix, and I think Jorgenson fits the job description better than anyone else likely to be available to BC in 2013. (I don't think we can just wait for Kaleb Joseph with our fingers crossed.)
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:41 pm

RedBaron67 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:BC doesn't need a PG. They need another guard, period, preferably one that can handle a little and has a consistent jumper. That may be Jorgensen, who knows. But to me, Rahon is the PG going forward.


True, I shouldn't have said pure 1, but they need one that can run the point. Combo at least


Rahon is certainly the best PG we have at present; he leads the team in assists (69), apg (3.8), and a/to ratio (1.64, compared to Jackson's 1.37 and Hanlan's 1.04), all of which is adequate, but no more than that. He has also been extremely inconsistent in his shooting. I think his best use would be as primarily a SG and a backup at PG, and that the team would do better with a PG who is unequivocally that, whose primary skills are handling and distribution, and who can score consistently when the defense gives it. With two combo guards and a SG with an adequate handle, I think the team would do better with a PG specialist added to the mix, and I think Jorgenson fits the job description better than anyone else likely to be available to BC in 2013. (I don't think we can just wait for Kaleb Joseph with our fingers crossed.)


The Don's offense doesn't need a true PG. Rahon is not only adequate, when he is shooting well and is on the floor with Hanlan, he is perfect.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby 31southst on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:50 pm

I've been pleasantly surprised with Rahon's PG play and slightly disappointed with his overall shooting. More the former than the latter.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:52 pm

RedBaron67 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:BC doesn't need a PG. They need another guard, period, preferably one that can handle a little and has a consistent jumper. That may be Jorgensen, who knows. But to me, Rahon is the PG going forward.


True, I shouldn't have said pure 1, but they need one that can run the point. Combo at least


Rahon is certainly the best PG we have at present; he leads the team in assists (69), apg (3.8), and a/to ratio (1.64, compared to Jackson's 1.37 and Hanlan's 1.04), all of which is adequate, but no more than that. He has also been extremely inconsistent in his shooting. I think his best use would be as primarily a SG and a backup at PG, and that the team would do better with a PG who is unequivocally that, whose primary skills are handling and distribution, and who can score consistently when the defense gives it. With two combo guards and a SG with an adequate handle, I think the team would do better with a PG specialist added to the mix, and I think Jorgenson fits the job description better than anyone else likely to be available to BC in 2013. (I don't think we can just wait for Kaleb Joseph with our fingers crossed.)


I'm not sure that I ever agree with you.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:55 pm

Jorgensen is a top 150 player in the entire 2013 class.

BC is in no position to turn those down
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby Oak34 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:02 pm

What is the expected timeframe for these kids to commit? BC or elsewhere
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby BCEaglesFan on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:41 pm

Oak34 wrote:What is the expected timeframe for these kids to commit? BC or elsewhere

Spring apparently
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby HJS on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:33 pm

eepstein0 wrote:Jorgensen is a top 150 player in the entire 2013 class.

BC is in no position to turn those down

Don't you worry... BC isn't going to have the chance to turn any of these guys down this year either.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby RedBaron67 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:49 pm

eagle9903 wrote:
RedBaron67 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:BC doesn't need a PG. They need another guard, period, preferably one that can handle a little and has a consistent jumper. That may be Jorgensen, who knows. But to me, Rahon is the PG going forward.


True, I shouldn't have said pure 1, but they need one that can run the point. Combo at least


Rahon is certainly the best PG we have at present; he leads the team in assists (69), apg (3.8), and a/to ratio (1.64, compared to Jackson's 1.37 and Hanlan's 1.04), all of which is adequate, but no more than that. He has also been extremely inconsistent in his shooting. I think his best use would be as primarily a SG and a backup at PG, and that the team would do better with a PG who is unequivocally that, whose primary skills are handling and distribution, and who can score consistently when the defense gives it. With two combo guards and a SG with an adequate handle, I think the team would do better with a PG specialist added to the mix, and I think Jorgenson fits the job description better than anyone else likely to be available to BC in 2013. (I don't think we can just wait for Kaleb Joseph with our fingers crossed.)


I'm not sure that I ever agree with you.


That's fine; airing our disagreements is a large part of what this website is about.

twballgame9 wrote: The Don's offense doesn't need a true PG. Rahon is not only adequate, when he is shooting well and is on the floor with Hanlan, he is perfect.


If Donahue's offense doesn't need a true PG, why has he been pursuing Jorgenson, a classic floor-general PG if there ever was one, so vigorously for two years (with a hiatus while Jorgenson was committed to Missouri), with at least three visits by J. to BC? Donahue's own behavior strongly suggests that he substantially agrees with me about J.'s value to the team. I'll concede that Rahon is much more than adequate when his 3p shot is going down; I attended his 24-point game in which he was 6-6 from all sectors of the arc, and he was very impressive indeed. His shooting, however, blows hot and cold to an extreme degree, and so I think he'd be more valuable to the team if he could focus more on it.

eepstein0 wrote:Jorgensen is a top 150 player in the entire 2013 class.

BC is in no position to turn those down


This is true; Jorgenson would be valuable even if he were an imperfect fit, but I think he'll fit in very well, and that makes him doubly valuable.
Last edited by RedBaron67 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby RedBaron67 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:26 pm

ATLeagle reports that BC has offered Terance Mann (6'5", 180), a 2015 swingman at Tilton School, who apparently looked good at the recent Hoophall Classic in Springfield. BC is apparently the first high-major to offer Mann, although others (e.g., Iowa, Maryland, Georgetown) are looking at him. Mann's mother played for Georgetown, which could be a problem, but right now he seems well disposed to BC.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:38 pm

RedBaron67 wrote:I'm not sure that I ever agree with you.


That's fine; airing our disagreements is a large part of what this website is about.

twballgame9 wrote: The Don's offense doesn't need a true PG. Rahon is not only adequate, when he is shooting well and is on the floor with Hanlan, he is perfect.


If Donahue's offense doesn't need a true PG, why has he been pursuing Jorgenson, a classic floor-general PG if there ever was one, so vigorously for two years (with a hiatus while Jorgenson was committed to Missouri), with at least three visits by J. to BC? Donahue's own behavior strongly suggests that he substantially agrees with me about J.'s value to the team. I'll concede that Rahon is much more than adequate when his 3p shot is going down; I attended his 24-point game in which he was 6-6 from all sectors of the arc, and he was very impressive indeed. His shooting, however, blows hot and cold to an extreme degree, and so I think he'd be more valuable to the team if he could focus more on it.[/quote]

Yes, of course it is fine, disagreement makes things interesting.

As to your instant point about not having a pure point guard, what is a pure point guard to you and what is Joe Rahon or Hanlan doing or not doing right now, nevermind what they could each do if was asked, that disqualifies him from the definition? Is it that their games currently include aspects traditionally associated with a shooting guard as well? That they have scoring responsibilities? Or, that you don't think they are good passers/handlers?

As to the part about Donahue wanting a pure point, this is where my disagreement is strongest. I think ideally Donahue wants to have 3 or 4 Rahon/Hanlans on the floor at once. Right now he has 2.5 in Rahon/Hanlan and Jackson. I think he prefers combination guards who can move the ball and shoot as opposed to Brady Heslip type catch and shoot players who are pure 2s. I think Jorgensen fits the Rahon/Hanlan mold of having the ability to pass, shoot and drive if necessary and therein lies Donahue's interest in him. Another example of a similar player is Louis Dale at Cornell.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:42 pm

eagle9903 wrote:As to the part about Donahue wanting a pure point, this is where my disagreement is strongest. I think ideally Donahue wants to have 3 or 4 Rahon/Hanlans on the floor at once. Right now he has 2.5 in Rahon/Hanlan and Jackson. I think he prefers combination guards who can move the ball and shoot as opposed to Brady Heslip type catch and shoot players who are pure 2s. I think Jorgensen fits the Rahon/Hanlan mold of having the ability to pass, shoot and drive if necessary and therein lies Donahue's interest in him. Another example of a similar player is Louis Dale at Cornell.


This was my point. Don doesn't want one guy that's great at traditional PG duties and one guy that catches and shoots in the traditional SG mold. He wants 3-4 guys on the perimeter that can handle, pass and shoot well enough to make each a multidimensional threat.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:40 pm

twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:As to the part about Donahue wanting a pure point, this is where my disagreement is strongest. I think ideally Donahue wants to have 3 or 4 Rahon/Hanlans on the floor at once. Right now he has 2.5 in Rahon/Hanlan and Jackson. I think he prefers combination guards who can move the ball and shoot as opposed to Brady Heslip type catch and shoot players who are pure 2s. I think Jorgensen fits the Rahon/Hanlan mold of having the ability to pass, shoot and drive if necessary and therein lies Donahue's interest in him. Another example of a similar player is Louis Dale at Cornell.


This was my point. Don doesn't want one guy that's great at traditional PG duties and one guy that catches and shoots in the traditional SG mold. He wants 3-4 guys on the perimeter that can handle, pass and shoot well enough to make each a multidimensional threat.


If we could find some that can make wide open jump-shots, I would greatly appreciate it
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby GodofBeasts94 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:30 pm

RedBaron67 wrote:ATLeagle reports that BC has offered Terance Mann (6'5", 180), a 2015 swingman at Tilton School, who apparently looked good at the recent Hoophall Classic in Springfield. BC is apparently the first high-major to offer Mann, although others (e.g., Iowa, Maryland, Georgetown) are looking at him. Mann's mother played for Georgetown, which could be a problem, but right now he seems well disposed to BC.


I would LOVE to get Mann but I don't see it happening -- He will blow up big time in the next 18 months with major programs clamoring for him. if he does commit to the Heights it will be a signal that our program has not only been turned around but is heading for unprecedented levels. Would love to see it for sure; but I'm not going to spend too much brain and emotional energy on this one.......
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby Shaddix on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:43 pm

GodofBeasts94 wrote:
RedBaron67 wrote:ATLeagle reports that BC has offered Terance Mann (6'5", 180), a 2015 swingman at Tilton School, who apparently looked good at the recent Hoophall Classic in Springfield. BC is apparently the first high-major to offer Mann, although others (e.g., Iowa, Maryland, Georgetown) are looking at him. Mann's mother played for Georgetown, which could be a problem, but right now he seems well disposed to BC.


I would LOVE to get Mann but I don't see it happening -- He will blow up big time in the next 18 months with major programs clamoring for him. if he does commit to the Heights it will be a signal that our program has not only been turned around but is heading for unprecedented levels. Would love to see it for sure; but I'm not going to spend too much brain and emotional energy on this one.......


This isn't the first time BC has contacted Mann, they've been in on him since he was in middle school. He visited last year and has been to several BC games. BC has a really good shot with him.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby GodofBeasts94 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:06 pm

Shaddix wrote:
GodofBeasts94 wrote:
RedBaron67 wrote:ATLeagle reports that BC has offered Terance Mann (6'5", 180), a 2015 swingman at Tilton School, who apparently looked good at the recent Hoophall Classic in Springfield. BC is apparently the first high-major to offer Mann, although others (e.g., Iowa, Maryland, Georgetown) are looking at him. Mann's mother played for Georgetown, which could be a problem, but right now he seems well disposed to BC.


I would LOVE to get Mann but I don't see it happening -- He will blow up big time in the next 18 months with major programs clamoring for him. if he does commit to the Heights it will be a signal that our program has not only been turned around but is heading for unprecedented levels. Would love to see it for sure; but I'm not going to spend too much brain and emotional energy on this one.......


This isn't the first time BC has contacted Mann, they've been in on him since he was in middle school. He visited last year and has been to several BC games. BC has a really good shot with him.


I hope so Shaddix -- and thanks for the extra info. It just seems like the pattern is: we get in early -- long before the others do -- and then the elite programs sweep in and lure them away with the glam that comes with engaged fans and years of success. At some point, one of them will come here; if the right pieces are in place around him then it will be the beginning of something great. Success will breed more success. Maybe Mann will be that person. Fingers crossed.......
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby apbc12 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:51 pm

GodofBeasts94 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:
GodofBeasts94 wrote:
RedBaron67 wrote:ATLeagle reports that BC has offered Terance Mann (6'5", 180), a 2015 swingman at Tilton School, who apparently looked good at the recent Hoophall Classic in Springfield. BC is apparently the first high-major to offer Mann, although others (e.g., Iowa, Maryland, Georgetown) are looking at him. Mann's mother played for Georgetown, which could be a problem, but right now he seems well disposed to BC.


I would LOVE to get Mann but I don't see it happening -- He will blow up big time in the next 18 months with major programs clamoring for him. if he does commit to the Heights it will be a signal that our program has not only been turned around but is heading for unprecedented levels. Would love to see it for sure; but I'm not going to spend too much brain and emotional energy on this one.......


This isn't the first time BC has contacted Mann, they've been in on him since he was in middle school. He visited last year and has been to several BC games. BC has a really good shot with him.


I hope so Shaddix -- and thanks for the extra info. It just seems like the pattern is: we get in early -- long before the others do -- and then the elite programs sweep in and lure them away with the glam that comes with engaged fans and years of success. At some point, one of them will come here; if the right pieces are in place around him then it will be the beginning of something great. Success will breed more success. Maybe Mann will be that person. Fingers crossed.......


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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:02 am

On a different note, we need to shake up the staff this off-season. By shake up the staff I mean get rid of 1 or 2 of these Ivy Leagie guys and get real assistant coaches who can recruit.

I think Kelly/Owens are okay, but we're not getting to the top of the ACC with those type of commitments.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:05 am

eepstein0 wrote:On a different note, we need to shake up the staff this off-season. By shake up the staff I mean get rid of 1 or 2 of these Ivy Leagie guys and get real assistant coaches who can recruit.

I think Kelly/Owens are okay, but we're not getting to the top of the ACC with those type of commitments.


Do you have the thing that that guy in memento had?
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby cvilleagle on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:09 am

eagle9903 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:On a different note, we need to shake up the staff this off-season. By shake up the staff I mean get rid of 1 or 2 of these Ivy Leagie guys and get real assistant coaches who can recruit.

I think Kelly/Owens are okay, but we're not getting to the top of the ACC with those type of commitments.


Do you have the thing that that guy in memento had?


tattoos?
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby BCEagles25 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:54 pm

I'm extremely impressed by last year's recruiting class. Rahon and Hanlan = 2 for 2. If the staff can keep finding guys of their caliber who are harshly under-recruited but bring the goods once they get to the next level, then I'd rather have this coaching staff than any. I like Rahon and Hanlan so much because they are talented, smart, and are four-year players, unless buzz surrounds Hanlan and he leaves after junior year. Two more players of their caliber for this year's class and we're a possible Sweet Sixteen team next year. maybe even better. I have high aspirations, and this coaching staff's ability to find those two gems is hopefully a precursor to later finds.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby JimDog90 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:22 am

cvilleagle wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:On a different note, we need to shake up the staff this off-season. By shake up the staff I mean get rid of 1 or 2 of these Ivy Leagie guys and get real assistant coaches who can recruit.

I think Kelly/Owens are okay, but we're not getting to the top of the ACC with those type of commitments.


Do you have the thing that that guy in memento had?


tattoos?


:lol: antergorade amnesia (short term memory loss) - you know you are suffering from it when you actually entertain the thought that one of these talented underclassmen Donahue offers early to is actually going to commit to BC once the major offers start rolling in.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:32 am

BCEagles25 wrote:I'm extremely impressed by last year's recruiting class. Rahon and Hanlan = 2 for 2. If the staff can keep finding guys of their caliber who are harshly under-recruited but bring the goods once they get to the next level, then I'd rather have this coaching staff than any. I like Rahon and Hanlan so much because they are talented, smart, and are four-year players, unless buzz surrounds Hanlan and he leaves after junior year. Two more players of their caliber for this year's class and we're a possible Sweet Sixteen team next year. maybe even better. I have high aspirations, and this coaching staff's ability to find those two gems is hopefully a precursor to later finds.


Hanlan and Rahon both had a lot of high major offers. So does Jorgensen
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby RedBaron67 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:19 pm

NERR reports that Duke has begun to show interest in Kaleb Joseph; no offer at present, but this is not good news.
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