Commits/Recruiting

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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby bcbasketball20 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:01 am

twballgame9 wrote:
BCEagles25 wrote:how are you all so sure that Heckmann is outbound? I hope not.



I think for most of us, we are just hoping its true.


i would take Dragicevich over Heckmann to start at the 3 on next year's team. it wouldn't be a major upgrade, but a minor upgrade none the least.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:02 am

I don't want Heckmann to leave.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby Brablc on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:38 am

eagle9903 wrote:I don't want Heckmann to leave.


I'm with that. He's one of our better 3 point shooters and defenders. He does need to really work on his ball-handling though.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby wildcat81 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:41 pm

Brablc wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:I don't want Heckmann to leave.


I'm with that. He's one of our better 3 point shooters and defenders. He does need to really work on his ball-handling though.

Sound like Rakim Sanders weaknesses.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby joeyfenn on Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:20 pm

wildcat81 wrote:
Brablc wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:I don't want Heckmann to leave.


I'm with that. He's one of our better 3 point shooters and defenders. He does need to really work on his ball-handling though.

Sound like Rakim Sanders weaknesses.


I agree.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby Brablc on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:36 pm

Update from ESPN on Kaleb Joseph, sounds like he's blowing up:

Kaleb Joseph’s development has taken a distinctly linear path over the last two years.

In the summer of 2011, the Cushing Academy guard was a player with notable upside, but one who was still trying to put the pieces together.

That started to happen on a more consistent basis last fall and the scholarship offers started coming in as a result, with Boston College, Tennessee, Maryland, TCU, Fordham, St. Bonaventure, Delaware and New Hampshire all having reached out by this time last year.

Joseph’s confidence seemed to rise in correlation to his recruitment, and by last spring, he had established himself as one of the premier 2014 guards in the northeast. With more schools continuing to come in throughout the course of his grassroots season with the Mass Rivals, Joseph’s game and stock continued to steadily expand throughout the summer.

Eight games into his junior season and Joseph is now making his latest jump, this time by becoming more of a true point guard.

Kaleb Joseph
Point guard
2014
Uncommitted: List

Pos Rk Stars Grade Hometown

NR
Nashua, NH
“He’s taking stuff personally now,” Cushing Academy head coach Barry Connors said. “He’s determined to prove that he’s the best point guard in New England and the thing that’s impressing me is that he’s starting to figure out what that truly means in terms of making the right play or making the right pass, and not always swinging for the fences.”

Joseph’s numbers support that claim as he’s averaging 16 points per game, but doing so while taking four less shots per night than he did a year ago. He’s also averaging eight assists against only 1.5 turnovers per game, and has only committed more than two turnovers in one of Cushing’s first eight contests.

“Last year I definitely thought I needed to put up big numbers,” Joseph admitted, “but this year Coach Connors has been teaching me about making the right play every time down the floor, and when you do that you let your talent speak for itself.”

Joseph’s evolution at the point has Cushing off to a perfect 8-0 record, including a pair of big wins against Tilton School and previously undefeated St. Andrew’s School this past weekend. Connors said Joseph was especially impressive against Tilton, which features senior swingman Wayne Selden.

“He had 20 points and eight assists,” Connors said, “but his twenty points were on two dunks, five mid-range pull-ups, a three, and some free-throws.”

Joseph’s recruitment has continued to grow alongside his production.

This week alone, Kansas State and Providence have both been in to see him, while Connors said he’s also heard from Ohio State and Georgetown.

In total, Joseph now claims offers from Boston College, Maryland, Tennessee, Providence, West Virginia, Seton Hall and Kansas State among others with additional schools like Ohio State, Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova now starting to come in.

“I think I’m definitely capable of playing the point guard at the highest level,” he said. “I want to prove I belong with the best of the point guards in the 2014 class and consistency is the only way to do that.”
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby RedBaron67 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:43 pm

Brablc wrote:Update from ESPN on Kaleb Joseph, sounds like he's blowing up:

Kaleb Joseph’s development has taken a distinctly linear path over the last two years.

In the summer of 2011, the Cushing Academy guard was a player with notable upside, but one who was still trying to put the pieces together.

That started to happen on a more consistent basis last fall and the scholarship offers started coming in as a result, with Boston College, Tennessee, Maryland, TCU, Fordham, St. Bonaventure, Delaware and New Hampshire all having reached out by this time last year.

Joseph’s confidence seemed to rise in correlation to his recruitment, and by last spring, he had established himself as one of the premier 2014 guards in the northeast. With more schools continuing to come in throughout the course of his grassroots season with the Mass Rivals, Joseph’s game and stock continued to steadily expand throughout the summer.

Eight games into his junior season and Joseph is now making his latest jump, this time by becoming more of a true point guard.

Kaleb Joseph
Point guard
2014
Uncommitted: List

Pos Rk Stars Grade Hometown

NR
Nashua, NH
“He’s taking stuff personally now,” Cushing Academy head coach Barry Connors said. “He’s determined to prove that he’s the best point guard in New England and the thing that’s impressing me is that he’s starting to figure out what that truly means in terms of making the right play or making the right pass, and not always swinging for the fences.”

Joseph’s numbers support that claim as he’s averaging 16 points per game, but doing so while taking four less shots per night than he did a year ago. He’s also averaging eight assists against only 1.5 turnovers per game, and has only committed more than two turnovers in one of Cushing’s first eight contests.

“Last year I definitely thought I needed to put up big numbers,” Joseph admitted, “but this year Coach Connors has been teaching me about making the right play every time down the floor, and when you do that you let your talent speak for itself.”

Joseph’s evolution at the point has Cushing off to a perfect 8-0 record, including a pair of big wins against Tilton School and previously undefeated St. Andrew’s School this past weekend. Connors said Joseph was especially impressive against Tilton, which features senior swingman Wayne Selden.

“He had 20 points and eight assists,” Connors said, “but his twenty points were on two dunks, five mid-range pull-ups, a three, and some free-throws.”

Joseph’s recruitment has continued to grow alongside his production.

This week alone, Kansas State and Providence have both been in to see him, while Connors said he’s also heard from Ohio State and Georgetown.

In total, Joseph now claims offers from Boston College, Maryland, Tennessee, Providence, West Virginia, Seton Hall and Kansas State among others with additional schools like Ohio State, Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova now starting to come in.

“I think I’m definitely capable of playing the point guard at the highest level,” he said. “I want to prove I belong with the best of the point guards in the 2014 class and consistency is the only way to do that.”


Given that (1) Joseph has a ton of talent, and (2) he's a level-headed kid with a strong work ethic, this was sort of inevitable. It remains to be seen how well BC can leverage the early time they spent on him. I really hope this doesn't become another Vonleh situation.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby BCEagles25 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:10 pm

Brablc wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:I don't want Heckmann to leave.


I'm with that. He's one of our better 3 point shooters and defenders. He does need to really work on his ball-handling though.


He seems to be getting the whole "one man team" thing out of his head. He made some good passes and played good D tonight. Really the first game where I can say that Heckmann didn't have to score to be useful.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby footer20 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:05 pm

Just a note here. Roschon Prince from LB Poly (Ryan Anderson's high school) is going to USC. He's a four star prospect but I don't think he got the respect he deserved until recently. 6-6, averaging 20 ppg and 7 rpg. We were all impressed with his motor and athleticism when Poly was televised two years ago. I'm just surprised the Don never made a run at him.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby RedBaron67 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:25 am

footer20 wrote:Just a note here. Roschon Prince from LB Poly (Ryan Anderson's high school) is going to USC. He's a four star prospect but I don't think he got the respect he deserved until recently. 6-6, averaging 20 ppg and 7 rpg. We were all impressed with his motor and athleticism when Poly was televised two years ago. I'm just surprised the Don never made a run at him.


Donahue's recruiting may have blinded us to the fact that a lot of kids in SoCal aren't inclined to leave the sunshine lands; more often than not, in-state schools are going to have an edge.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby bcbasketball20 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:41 am

this is what i think the rotation will be for next years team: starters and backups. assuming we land kelly and jorgenson and heckmann stays.

clifford, caudill
anderson, kelly, odio
dragicevich, heckmann, owens
rahon, jackson
hanlan, jorgenson
BCEagles25 wrote:
Brablc wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:I don't want Heckmann to leave.


I'm with that. He's one of our better 3 point shooters and defenders. He does need to really work on his ball-handling though.


He seems to be getting the whole "one man team" thing out of his head. He made some good passes and played good D tonight. Really the first game where I can say that Heckmann didn't have to score to be useful.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby Primetime on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:11 pm

bcbasketball20 wrote:this is what i think the rotation will be for next years team: starters and backups. assuming we land kelly and jorgenson and heckmann stays.

clifford, caudill
anderson, kelly, odio
dragicevich, heckmann, owens
rahon, jackson
hanlan, jorgenson
BCEagles25 wrote:
Brablc wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:I don't want Heckmann to leave.


I'm with that. He's one of our better 3 point shooters and defenders. He does need to really work on his ball-handling though.


He seems to be getting the whole "one man team" thing out of his head. He made some good passes and played good D tonight. Really the first game where I can say that Heckmann didn't have to score to be useful.


Without being a dick: what you listed is our full (scholarship) roster, not an actual rotation (if that was even your intention). Nobody goes 12 players deep. For one thing, I would be SHOCKED if we land both Kelly and Jorgenson. I'd say 60-70% chance Kelly comes and 30-40% chance Jorgenson comes - I'd be interested in any updates on these two, btw. Something about Jorgenson makes me not trust him, and he seems really wishy-washy. I bet he goes Creighton. As for Kelly, I think having Owens will help get him here.

Additionally, there are only so many minutes to go around. Exhibit A, Daniels saw he was getting pushed out this fall by two superior players, and he hit the road. It would appear that Dragicevich and Heckmann would be competing for minutes, regardless of how similar/dissimilar their games are. Now if you're Heckmann, do you jump to a German pro league based off this season's performance getting 25 mpg, or do you wait until after next year when you're probably getting 15-20 mpg. I just don't see his incentive to stay. No matter how much people hate on Heckmann here, I don't see his loss as a positive. That being said, it will certainly be mitigated by Dragicevich, and I don't think we'll miss him much (Humphrey who???)

Another interesting battle will be Kelly vs. Odio. Don't want to get into a Lenny vs. Carl debate, but despite not seeing Kelly play I feel confident that he will be more physical and provide more of what this team is missing. Odio made great strides over this past year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get passed over by a younger, hungrier player.

Projected Roster:
Rotation: Anderson, Hanlan, Rahon, Dragicevich, Clifford, Jackson, Kelly, Owens
Bench: Odio, Rubin, Donahue, Caudill

I love this team and how far it's come - there's so much potential. It sucks that losses to NCST and WF cancel out the perceived improvement, but it is definitely there. The roster above will absolutely compete for an NCAA bid next year, and if Jorgenson comes, they will surely get it.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby bcbasketball20 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:05 pm

Primetime wrote:
bcbasketball20 wrote:this is what i think the rotation will be for next years team: starters and backups. assuming we land kelly and jorgenson and heckmann stays.

clifford, caudill
anderson, kelly, odio
dragicevich, heckmann, owens
rahon, jackson
hanlan, jorgenson
BCEagles25 wrote:
Brablc wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:I don't want Heckmann to leave.


I'm with that. He's one of our better 3 point shooters and defenders. He does need to really work on his ball-handling though.


He seems to be getting the whole "one man team" thing out of his head. He made some good passes and played good D tonight. Really the first game where I can say that Heckmann didn't have to score to be useful.


Without being a dick: what you listed is our full (scholarship) roster, not an actual rotation (if that was even your intention). Nobody goes 12 players deep. For one thing, I would be SHOCKED if we land both Kelly and Jorgenson. I'd say 60-70% chance Kelly comes and 30-40% chance Jorgenson comes - I'd be interested in any updates on these two, btw. Something about Jorgenson makes me not trust him, and he seems really wishy-washy. I bet he goes Creighton. As for Kelly, I think having Owens will help get him here.

Additionally, there are only so many minutes to go around. Exhibit A, Daniels saw he was getting pushed out this fall by two superior players, and he hit the road. It would appear that Dragicevich and Heckmann would be competing for minutes, regardless of how similar/dissimilar their games are. Now if you're Heckmann, do you jump to a German pro league based off this season's performance getting 25 mpg, or do you wait until after next year when you're probably getting 15-20 mpg. I just don't see his incentive to stay. No matter how much people hate on Heckmann here, I don't see his loss as a positive. That being said, it will certainly be mitigated by Dragicevich, and I don't think we'll miss him much (Humphrey who???)

Another interesting battle will be Kelly vs. Odio. Don't want to get into a Lenny vs. Carl debate, but despite not seeing Kelly play I feel confident that he will be more physical and provide more of what this team is missing. Odio made great strides over this past year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get passed over by a younger, hungrier player.

Projected Roster:
Rotation: Anderson, Hanlan, Rahon, Dragicevich, Clifford, Jackson, Kelly, Owens
Bench: Odio, Rubin, Donahue, Caudill

I love this team and how far it's come - there's so much potential. It sucks that losses to NCST and WF cancel out the perceived improvement, but it is definitely there. The roster above will absolutely compete for an NCAA bid next year, and if Jorgenson comes, they will surely get it.



i should have been more clear, i was trying to state the roster with the starters i believe we will have and all of their back ups in order. i agree, i think the rotation will have about 8 people at most.

i see those 8 being

anderson 32 mpg
hanlan 32 mpg
rahon 32 mpg
dragicevich 25 mpg
clifford 25 mpg
jackson 22 mpg
owens 15 mpg
kelly 10 mpg

that is the most likely scenario and if jorgenson does commit i would see him getting about 15 mpg. caudill and odio will each get about 5-10 mpg combined but besides that, i don't see any one else getting minutes and would be happy to see a 7 man rotation or 8 at most.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby BCEagles25 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:44 pm

There is some talk to suggest that Heck might not be back, but that talk has come from nobody from any actual association with either the media, Steve Donahue, or Patrick Heckmann. In other words... it was said by a few on this message board. So maybe we shouldn't be leaving him out of our 'next year' projections?
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby 2001Eagle on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:03 pm

BCEagles25 wrote:There is some talk to suggest that Heck might not be back, but that talk has come from nobody from any actual association with either the media, Steve Donahue, or Patrick Heckmann. In other words... it was said by a few on this message board. So maybe we shouldn't be leaving him out of our 'next year' projections?



I just assumed that he and Shinskie shared an agent.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:07 pm

I've heard from people in the program Heckmann has openly discussed leaving.

He isn't going to play a whole lot next year anyway. I'd rather give those minutes to Owens and Dragevich.

Heckmann is marginally better than Tyler Roche.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:58 am

eepstein0 wrote:Heckmann is marginally better than Tyler Roche.


no one that speaks german could be an evil man/bad basketball decision maker
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:43 am

eepstein0 wrote:I've heard from people in the program Heckmann has openly discussed leaving.

He isn't going to play a whole lot next year anyway. I'd rather give those minutes to Owens and Dragevich.

Heckmann is marginally better than Tyler Roche.


I really don't see how you can watch Heckmann play and make a Tyler Roche comparison. He's probably the second best athlete on the team (Hanlan then him or Odio), he clearly hasn't put it together but he has games where you think maybe he could and if he did would be arguably the best scorer on this team as well.

Will it ever happen? I doubt it more as time goes on, but I don't think he loses as many minutes as you say if he stays. Right now he is ideally suited to come of the bench and score in bunches but instead is starting, playing 25+ minutes a game and playing a lot of it at the 4. He has played admirable defense lately considering his height and weight and presumed strength disadvantage.

You have no idea what Owens gives you, he may be a liability with the ball in his hands. He may kill the offensive flow with every touch. Dragevich may be a terrible defensive player who doesn't board at all.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:27 am

Dragevich is a terrible rebounder who plays no defense....He's also the best shooter this side of Brady Heslip
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:28 am

eepstein0 wrote:Dragevich is a terrible rebounder who plays no defense....He's also the best shooter this side of Brady Heslip


so worse than Lonnie Jackson?
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby claver2010 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:45 am

:thehjs

*i respek you and your Jackson crusade, he has really picked his offensive game up of late (48% from 3 last 6 games)
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:11 am

claver2010 wrote::thehjs

*i respek you and your Jackson crusade, he has really picked his offensive game up of late (48% from 3 last 6 games)


There's going to be a regression to the mean, which you're seeing now. Great shooter and I love his energy. He just can't really dribble or play defense or pass. At 20 minutes a night great. At 38 minutes a night not so much.

Jorgensen fixes this whole situation, so Id recommend Donahue get him to commit. I'd love our guards with him in the fold.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:13 am

eagle9903 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Dragevich is a terrible rebounder who plays no defense....He's also the best shooter this side of Brady Heslip


so worse than Lonnie Jackson?


The same. One plays SG the other plays SF.

They're both good role players, but if we're counting on them being huge contributors its a mess.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:14 am

eepstein0 wrote:
claver2010 wrote::thehjs

*i respek you and your Jackson crusade, he has really picked his offensive game up of late (48% from 3 last 6 games)


There's going to be a regression to the mean, which you're seeing now. Great shooter and I love his energy. He just can't really dribble or play defense or pass. At 20 minutes a night great. At 38 minutes a night not so much.

Jorgensen fixes this whole situation, so Id recommend Donahue get him to commit. I'd love our guards with him in the fold.


he has .3 less assists than Hanlan per game. He's not just a shooter. His defense is not good but it is much better than it was last year.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:52 am

eagle9903 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
claver2010 wrote::thehjs

*i respek you and your Jackson crusade, he has really picked his offensive game up of late (48% from 3 last 6 games)


There's going to be a regression to the mean, which you're seeing now. Great shooter and I love his energy. He just can't really dribble or play defense or pass. At 20 minutes a night great. At 38 minutes a night not so much.

Jorgensen fixes this whole situation, so Id recommend Donahue get him to commit. I'd love our guards with him in the fold.


he has .3 less assists than Hanlan per game. He's not just a shooter. His defense is not good but it is much better than it was last year.


Again, good ACC role players. Problem is we're counting on them to carry the load with Anderson.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby pick6pedro on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:04 pm

eepstein0 wrote:
claver2010 wrote::thehjs

*i respek you and your Jackson crusade, he has really picked his offensive game up of late (48% from 3 last 6 games)


There's going to be a regression to the mean, which you're seeing now. Great shooter and I love his energy. He just can't really dribble or play defense or pass. At 20 minutes a night great. At 38 minutes a night not so much.


His handle has vastly improved, and he's taken the ball to the rim with a lot of success against ACC foes so far. Plus the assist thing. Are there a ton of players I would prefer on the floor over him? Of course. But you're selling him way short, which I know is a shock to every person reading this.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby EagleNYC on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:37 pm

Reason number #198742 that I dislike the SABR community is the over-reliance upon the concept of "regression to the mean." Jackson's had a few hot games because he is streaky; remember when he couldn't buy a basket? By switching to a hot streak he isn't compensating for a slow start, he's just streaky. That's how some shooters can be.

At the same time, athletes (particularly college atheletes) improve all the time. They mature physically and mentally, and therefore, there is a "new mean" so to speak. Look no further than Ryan Anderson. Rant over.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby flyingelvii on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:30 pm

EagleNYC wrote:Reason number #198742 that I dislike the SABR community is the over-reliance upon the concept of "regression to the mean." Jackson's had a few hot games because he is streaky; remember when he couldn't buy a basket? By switching to a hot streak he isn't compensating for a slow start, he's just streaky. That's how some shooters can be.

At the same time, athletes (particularly college atheletes) improve all the time. They mature physically and mentally, and therefore, there is a "new mean" so to speak. Look no further than Ryan Anderson. Rant over.

Regression to the mean is retarded when talking about college athletes.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eagle9903 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:54 pm

EagleNYC wrote:Reason number #198742 that I dislike the SABR community is the over-reliance upon the concept of "regression to the mean." Jackson's had a few hot games because he is streaky; remember when he couldn't buy a basket? By switching to a hot streak he isn't compensating for a slow start, he's just streaky. That's how some shooters can be.

At the same time, athletes (particularly college atheletes) improve all the time. They mature physically and mentally, and therefore, there is a "new mean" so to speak. Look no further than Ryan Anderson. Rant over.


eppy is using it the opposite way though, I think. He's saying (again I think) that it was stupid for people to peg him as a horrific shooter and his return to not being a horrific shooter is the regression to the mean. That doesn't strike me as sabermetric-y. That's just not ignoring an entire season in favor of 6 or 7 games.
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Re: Commits/Recruiting

Postby eepstein0 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:21 pm

eagle9903 wrote:
EagleNYC wrote:Reason number #198742 that I dislike the SABR community is the over-reliance upon the concept of "regression to the mean." Jackson's had a few hot games because he is streaky; remember when he couldn't buy a basket? By switching to a hot streak he isn't compensating for a slow start, he's just streaky. That's how some shooters can be.

At the same time, athletes (particularly college atheletes) improve all the time. They mature physically and mentally, and therefore, there is a "new mean" so to speak. Look no further than Ryan Anderson. Rant over.


eppy is using it the opposite way though, I think. He's saying (again I think) that it was stupid for people to peg him as a horrific shooter and his return to not being a horrific shooter is the regression to the mean. That doesn't strike me as sabermetric-y. That's just not ignoring an entire season in favor of 6 or 7 games.


This. You all need to go back and review math. Even though the phrase is regression to the mean, it can be up or down. Jackson is a good shooter.

I'm beginning to agree/like 9903 recently. Scary proposition.
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