Miami @ Boston College 1/16

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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:37 pm

Hunta518 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:Epstein, eagle....not worth your time. I've learned to just shut up because they can't be convinced. Apparently the team needs to show more improvement to impress Pedro and his fancy pants. Commenaverage is knowledgeable, but shows 0 patience with this team and the rest of these people can't get the Skinner years out of their mind. Useless.

But hey, see you all on the bandwagon next year!!!


For once you're right. Healthy Clifford and adding a few players will be fun next year

They're still going to win their fair share of ACC games. They'll split the next 2, then UNC and Clemson at home.


I agree they will be fun to watch and probably pretty good next year. This year I'm just worried about two freshman guards and zero depth.


My concerns with winning this year are for impact on recruiting and mentality of three current players.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby commavegarage on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:37 pm

eagle9903 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:i just dont get blaming this on the refs. you make your free throws, youre up 3 with under a minute.

had we done our job then gotten screwed, im right there with you.


Both are true. Had we hit fts the screw job wouldn't have mattered. Had we not gotten screwed the missed fts wouldn't Havre mattered.


this is, of course, based on the premise that we score on that position, which, when you shoot under 45% from the field is far from a safe assumption.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:39 pm

eagle9903 wrote:
EagleNYC wrote:
footer20 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:61% from the line.

And your point guard goes 5-10


Don't worry, someone will post "Hanlon will never go 5-10 from the stripe again" and not understand that this team has so many weaknesses (still) and can find ways to lose.


this is fucking retarded.


Sorry for overreaction. I'm pissed. This would have been a very good win.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby Hunta518 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:40 pm

eagle9903 wrote:
Hunta518 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:Epstein, eagle....not worth your time. I've learned to just shut up because they can't be convinced. Apparently the team needs to show more improvement to impress Pedro and his fancy pants. Commenaverage is knowledgeable, but shows 0 patience with this team and the rest of these people can't get the Skinner years out of their mind. Useless.

But hey, see you all on the bandwagon next year!!!


For once you're right. Healthy Clifford and adding a few players will be fun next year

They're still going to win their fair share of ACC games. They'll split the next 2, then UNC and Clemson at home.


I agree they will be fun to watch and probably pretty good next year. This year I'm just worried about two freshman guards and zero depth.


My concerns with winning this year are for impact on recruiting and mentality of three current players.


This. I know we're not going anywhere this year. Wins would be nice for confidence and any kind of tournament would do wonders for this team.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby Shaddix on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:41 pm

FYI Miami starting lineup guards freshman FT% compared to senior FT%

McKinney Jones freshman: 57% senior 90%
Scott freshman 67% senior 68% (fighting injuries this year, he shot 83 and 79% the past 2 years)

IDK why, but guards usually have issues hitting free throws during their freshman year.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:41 pm

commavegarage wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:i just dont get blaming this on the refs. you make your free throws, youre up 3 with under a minute.

had we done our job then gotten screwed, im right there with you.


Both are true. Had we hit fts the screw job wouldn't have mattered. Had we not gotten screwed the missed fts wouldn't Havre mattered.


this is, of course, based on the premise that we score on that position, which, when you shoot under 45% from the field is far from a safe assumption.


My biggest issue is the charge call on hanlsn followed by fts that was despicable. The rahon phantom charge was icing on the cake plus the non charge on the play Jackson got hurt.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby HJS on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:42 pm

It was a great effort by the kids tonight they played hard against another good team.

The officiating was terrible and one-sided.

Hanlan choked. No need to sugar coat it. He choked as big as you can choke. The 2 FT he made hit every part of the rim before dropping. Hopefully, he will learn from it and not have it be something that continues to plague his career.

The game is very frustrating because at some point, these kids need to see progress, to have a big win or two to gain the confidence they need to start making the next step as a program. Close losses are great, but they tend to pile on frustration and things can spiral out of control if you never convert those close losses to wins.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eepstein0 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:46 pm

HJS wrote:It was a great effort by the kids tonight they played hard against another good team.

The officiating was terrible and one-sided.

Hanlan choked. No need to sugar coat it. He choked as big as you can choke. The 2 FT he made hit every part of the rim before dropping. Hopefully, he will learn from it and not have it be something that continues to plague his career.

The game is very frustrating because at some point, these kids need to see progress, to have a big win or two to gain the confidence they need to start making the next step as a program. Close losses are great, but they tend to pile on frustration and things can spiral out of control if you never convert those close losses to wins.


We've played 4 ACC games with 14 more to go. This upcoming stretch provides some opportunities for wins
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:50 pm

eepstein0 wrote:
HJS wrote:It was a great effort by the kids tonight they played hard against another good team.

The officiating was terrible and one-sided.

Hanlan choked. No need to sugar coat it. He choked as big as you can choke. The 2 FT he made hit every part of the rim before dropping. Hopefully, he will learn from it and not have it be something that continues to plague his career.

The game is very frustrating because at some point, these kids need to see progress, to have a big win or two to gain the confidence they need to start making the next step as a program. Close losses are great, but they tend to pile on frustration and things can spiral out of control if you never convert those close losses to wins.


We've played 4 ACC games with 14 more to go. This upcoming stretch provides some opportunities for wins


He's right though the close losses have a cumulative effect.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby bluefishskip on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:58 pm

losing a few close games could also make them work harder to "finish" these games and starting getting more W's.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby footer20 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:32 pm

Hanlon did choke but someone keeps mentioning that had he hit the free throws we would have been up 3 with under a minute to play. This is true but had the charge been an AND 1 we would have been up 4 with a little over a minute left (instead of a one point game). That's a two possession game. If Miami scores on the next trip down you can still run your stuff with the lead and you could have gotten the ball to Lonnie if Miami chose to foul. By the way, Lonnie stepped up today. Every time he shoots, I think it's going in and he's improved his ball handling (Although he frustrates me when he takes extra dribbles and doesn't pass to a point guard sooner.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby DavidGordonsFoot on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 pm

That sucked.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby NotoriousOrange on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:39 pm

footer20 wrote:Hanlon did choke but someone keeps mentioning that had he hit the free throws we would have been up 3 with under a minute to play. This is true but had the charge been an AND 1 we would have been up 4 with a little over a minute left (instead of a one point game). That's a two possession game. If Miami scores on the next trip down you can still run your stuff with the lead and you could have gotten the ball to Lonnie if Miami chose to foul. By the way, Lonnie stepped up today. Every time he shoots, I think it's going in and he's improved his ball handling (Although he frustrates me when he takes extra dribbles and doesn't pass to a point guard sooner.



I agree - Olivier's missing the front end of the 1 on 1 changed the dynamic of the finish. The call on Rahan was bogus
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby StayBlessed on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:04 am

It was a good game and a frustrating game...not worry about BC. I think as the year goes on we will win these close games and especially next year. The future is bright for BC basketball. Unfortunately we have be patient this year.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby DavidGordonsFoot on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:04 am

tre, you will be happy to hear that the nerd who dresses like clifford the dog was selected to partiicipate in the halftime contest for free pizza.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby RedBaron67 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:20 am

eepstein0 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:Epstein, eagle....not worth your time. I've learned to just shut up because they can't be convinced. Apparently the team needs to show more improvement to impress Pedro and his fancy pants. Commenaverage is knowledgeable, but shows 0 patience with this team and the rest of these people can't get the Skinner years out of their mind. Useless.

But hey, see you all on the bandwagon next year!!!


For once you're right. Healthy Clifford and adding a few players will be fun next year

They're still going to win their fair share of ACC games. They'll split the next 2, then UNC and Clemson at home.


For once, I think you may be unduly optimistic about the future.

(1) It's far from clear that Clifford will ever be healthy. Tendinitis in the knees can easily become a permanent condition for a big man, and Clifford will be a question mark unless/until he can play starter's minutes for an extended period without health limitations (which is unlikely to happen before next season at the earliest).

(2) Recruitment for next year is slowly but steadily becoming more questionable. Every day that we don't close on Jorgenson/Kelly makes it a little bit less likely that we will -- and these close losses aren't helping matters. The last point is also true for 2014 and 2015 -- quality players want to play for winning programs.

(3) Losing close games can become habitual, and the questions/doubts are going to get progressively louder until they start winning close games. The longer it goes on, the less likely it is to change. This is true both for the current players and for future recruiting (see above). Even if experience does eventually produce a change, its effect will be limited if it doesn't happen until all the quality recruits have signed on elsewhere. If this group doesn't produce until the very end (like the Curley group), BC will be starting over again the next year at close to point zero. The team has to start winning consistently in the present to assure winning consistently in the future.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby claver2010 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:15 am

DavidGordonsFoot wrote:tre, you will be happy to hear that the nerd who dresses like clifford the dog was selected to partiicipate in the halftime contest for free pizza.



Also the nerd who won the halftime contest was wearing whalepants
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby ObserverCollege on Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:40 am

HJS wrote:The officiating was terrible and one-sided.


It was certainly one-sided. But terrible? Depends on the paradigm. If you're working from a standard of "fairness" in this particular game, then yes, it was "terrible".

But the ACC is in serious negotiations to try to salvage the conference and start its own network. It needs to get more teams into the NCAA Tournament and with stronger seeds so they get weaker opponents starting out. Does it help, then, for a BC to foul things up by upsetting Miami (or NC State, for that matter)? Of course not. Then how could you say that one-sided officiating is "terrible". From the ACC's perspective as a business (and mine of course), the correct sentence is:

"The officiating was terrible invaluable and one-sided".
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:09 am

RedBaron67 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:Epstein, eagle....not worth your time. I've learned to just shut up because they can't be convinced. Apparently the team needs to show more improvement to impress Pedro and his fancy pants. Commenaverage is knowledgeable, but shows 0 patience with this team and the rest of these people can't get the Skinner years out of their mind. Useless.

But hey, see you all on the bandwagon next year!!!


For once you're right. Healthy Clifford and adding a few players will be fun next year

They're still going to win their fair share of ACC games. They'll split the next 2, then UNC and Clemson at home.


Recruitment for next year is slowly but steadily becoming more questionable. Every day that we don't close on Jorgenson/Kelly makes it a little bit less likely that we will -- and these close losses aren't helping matters. The last point is also true for 2014 and 2015 -- quality players want to play for winning programs[/b]


I love when recruiting weirdos refuse to address the imperfection of the recruiting services even when it is thrown in their faces. You were definitely one of the posters who thought Rahon and Hanlan was the worst class in the ACC because of rankings. You were very, very wrong and I'd imagine your double down on your wrongness is likely doubly wrong.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:18 am

bluefishskip wrote:i don't get the ripping of the refs..........make the free throws down the stretch and things could have turned out better. With that said, another good effort that fell short, against an experienced team with some quality wins. Yeah, it sucks that BC lost, but the way I watch the games this year is that I'm not watching a definite NCAA Tournament team that is underachieving, but i'm watching one of the top 5 youngest teams in the country develop.

Rahon fouled Scott.......hits to the head are a point of emphasis this year with officials, thus the announcers originally saying before the replay that it could be a flagrant 1 foul (elbow to the head). Replay showed no elbow, thus, just a player control foul.

As for the Hanlan charge/basket....this was a call that used to be made a lot more frequently in years past. If the player releases the ball prior to contact, they would count the basket and call it a charge. Believe Miami was called for one earlier in the game as well. Typically, this call has gone away and usually it would be no foul and a play-on. Surprised to see two called tonight.

Disappointed in the loss, certainly not calling it a moral victory.......but losing to 4-0 Miami by 1 and 3-1 NCST by 5.....with a group that will be together for 2 more years.....it's certainly better than being 0-4 and getting blown out left and right. Defense has improved quite a bit over the last month.


I frankly don't understand how you can watch this team fight against a much bigger older team fight there way to the end and get screwed, even if they could have still overcome it and not be pissed about it. I don't agree with your analysis of the Rahon foul due to time of game, distance from the basket and the lack of real contact. That's an easy non-call and I hated it. Why did Jones get fts after the Hanlan fake charge? I just didn't understand that but may be missing a rule. Thanks for the explanation of why the layup counted. Watching espn3 makes things hard enough to follow without such things.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby pick6pedro on Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:49 am

Shaddix wrote:Epstein, eagle....not worth your time. I've learned to just shut up because they can't be convinced. Apparently the team needs to show more improvement to impress Pedro and his fancy pants. Commenaverage is knowledgeable, but shows 0 patience with this team and the rest of these people can't get the Skinner years out of their mind. Useless.

But hey, see you all on the bandwagon next year!!!


Wait...did you really type "fancy pants"? you must be the young and hip one in your barbershop quartet.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:13 am

Miami is going to be terrible next year. They are losing 5 of their 6 leading scorers and there entire front court including their first big off the bench.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:18 am

eepstein0 wrote:
Hunta518 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
footer20 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:61% from the line.

And your point guard goes 5-10


2-4 down the stretch. (really 2-5...bc the miss cost you an additional free throw)...miami went 4-4.


Unfortunately, welcome to having a crazy young basketball team. And yes this is Mr Youth and Experience.

The way to learn these close games is to play in them


And maybe occasionally win one


Again stop being absurd. If you expected to be beating NCST and Miami in year 2 of a complete rebuild, then you're nuts


On the two nights they played them, BC was clearly the better team and lost. Enough excuses.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:21 am

twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
Hunta518 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
footer20 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:61% from the line.

And your point guard goes 5-10


2-4 down the stretch. (really 2-5...bc the miss cost you an additional free throw)...miami went 4-4.


Unfortunately, welcome to having a crazy young basketball team. And yes this is Mr Youth and Experience.

The way to learn these close games is to play in them


And maybe occasionally win one


Again stop being absurd. If you expected to be beating NCST and Miami in year 2 of a complete rebuild, then you're nuts


On the two nights they played them, BC was clearly the better team and lost. Enough excuses.


Define better?
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:33 am

eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
Hunta518 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
footer20 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:61% from the line.

And your point guard goes 5-10


2-4 down the stretch. (really 2-5...bc the miss cost you an additional free throw)...miami went 4-4.


Unfortunately, welcome to having a crazy young basketball team. And yes this is Mr Youth and Experience.

The way to learn these close games is to play in them


And maybe occasionally win one


Again stop being absurd. If you expected to be beating NCST and Miami in year 2 of a complete rebuild, then you're nuts


On the two nights they played them, BC was clearly the better team and lost. Enough excuses.


Define better?


As in, "we all watched the game and BC played and coached better."

I recognize that NCSU and Miami supposedly have better talent and more experience, but it certainly didn't show either of those two nights. And each is poorly coached. BC is capable of putting up stinkers, but on those two nights, they played very well and were better than the opponent. Last night unquestionably - the only things that kept Miami in the game were: (a) clutch threes when they had no offense going whatsoever; (2)Kadji being tall; and (3) some of the worst one-sided officiating I have ever seen. And BC wins anyway if they make a couple free throws.

Everyone is crapping on Hanlan for the last three ugly FTs, but worse was the brick on the front end of the 1-1 on the third to last possession.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:36 am

twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
Hunta518 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
footer20 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:61% from the line.

And your point guard goes 5-10


2-4 down the stretch. (really 2-5...bc the miss cost you an additional free throw)...miami went 4-4.


Unfortunately, welcome to having a crazy young basketball team. And yes this is Mr Youth and Experience.

The way to learn these close games is to play in them


And maybe occasionally win one


Again stop being absurd. If you expected to be beating NCST and Miami in year 2 of a complete rebuild, then you're nuts


On the two nights they played them, BC was clearly the better team and lost. Enough excuses.


Define better?


As in, "we all watched the game and BC played and coached better."

I recognize that NCSU and Miami supposedly have better talent and more experience, but it certainly didn't show either of those two nights. And each is poorly coached. BC is capable of putting up stinkers, but on those two nights, they played very well and were better than the opponent. Last night unquestionably - the only things that kept Miami in the game were: (a) clutch threes when they had no offense going whatsoever; (2)Kadji being tall; and (3) some of the worst one-sided officiating I have ever seen. And BC wins anyway if they make a couple free throws.

Everyone is crapping on Hanlan for the last three ugly FTs, but worse was the brick on the front end of the 1-1 on the third to last possession.


Oh, I agree with that. Although I think things like the Miami size/strength advantage and the NC State talent/experience advantage are real too.

Anyone crapping on Hanlan for anything is retarded and should, as always, kill themselves immediately.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:40 am

eagle9903 wrote:
RedBaron67 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
Shaddix wrote:Epstein, eagle....not worth your time. I've learned to just shut up because they can't be convinced. Apparently the team needs to show more improvement to impress Pedro and his fancy pants. Commenaverage is knowledgeable, but shows 0 patience with this team and the rest of these people can't get the Skinner years out of their mind. Useless.

But hey, see you all on the bandwagon next year!!!


For once you're right. Healthy Clifford and adding a few players will be fun next year

They're still going to win their fair share of ACC games. They'll split the next 2, then UNC and Clemson at home.


Recruitment for next year is slowly but steadily becoming more questionable. Every day that we don't close on Jorgenson/Kelly makes it a little bit less likely that we will -- and these close losses aren't helping matters. The last point is also true for 2014 and 2015 -- quality players want to play for winning programs[/b]


I love when recruiting weirdos refuse to address the imperfection of the recruiting services even when it is thrown in their faces. You were definitely one of the posters who thought Rahon and Hanlan was the worst class in the ACC because of rankings. You were very, very wrong and I'd imagine your double down on your wrongness is likely doubly wrong.


As someone that thought Daniels was going to start, I still never thought Rahon and Hanlan were a bad recruiting class. I thought (a) Daniels would make a leap; (b) Don wouldn't want 2 frosh as the primary ball handlers; and (c) the class needed a big. In other words, great signings, not enough, and we needed Daniels.

Now having seen Hanlan and Rahon play, I was clearly wrong about Daniels starting (though I would have like to have seen if he improved as much as Anderson and Jackson did in the off season). But the rest of it stands - great class, not enough, and we at least need Daniels' minutes, especially on a night like last night when Rahon gets an injury and limps through the last 20.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby EagleNYC on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:42 am

eagle9903 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
EagleNYC wrote:
footer20 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:61% from the line.

And your point guard goes 5-10


Don't worry, someone will post "Hanlon will never go 5-10 from the stripe again" and not understand that this team has so many weaknesses (still) and can find ways to lose.


this is fucking retarded.


Sorry for overreaction. I'm pissed. This would have been a very good win.


No need to apologize. I've been caught in the basketball negativity cycle for a long time and it's getting difficult to keep "big picture" goals in mind. You'd have to be blind not to see progress from last year to this year, but I'm afraid we're not seeing enough. What I can't stand are the excuses (youth, injuries, etc.) because every program goes through that. To make matters worse there are many ACC programs (our competition) that can pretty much bank on out-recruiting us consistently, including some who frequently land game changing talent.

I don't know how this year will play out, or next year. I'm just afraid that we're building towards a single year of a "very good" basketball team, and that's a small window. I love that we seem to have a solid backcourt now, but I'm afraid that if we don't see some more W's this year, recruiting will stagnate. I didn't expect them to hang with NC State like they did, and there are encouraging signs, but there are also discouraging signs, like the Wake game. We're going on 5 years since the last NCAA tourney appearance - Tyrese Rice played for that team. It's not easy to stay indoctrinated.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:46 am

EagleNYC wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
EagleNYC wrote:
footer20 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:61% from the line.

And your point guard goes 5-10


Don't worry, someone will post "Hanlon will never go 5-10 from the stripe again" and not understand that this team has so many weaknesses (still) and can find ways to lose.


this is fucking retarded.


Sorry for overreaction. I'm pissed. This would have been a very good win.


You'd have to be blind not to see progress from last year to this year, but I'm afraid we're not seeing enough.


This pretty much captures it for me. Don said he wasn't worried about wins last season and wait for 50 games in. Well its close to 50 games in. And while they are clearly better (much of that simply being the effect of LoJack shooting well and opening up the floor) they still aren't doing what it takes to win.

Had they beaten Wake and won one of these two tight games against decent opponents, I might have a different outlook. But 19 turnovers against a bad Wake team, and poor FT shooting and down the stretch play in winnable games against underachieving teams make me a bit worried.
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Re: Miami @ Boston College 1/16

Postby eagle9903 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:08 am

EagleNYC wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
EagleNYC wrote:
footer20 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:61% from the line.

And your point guard goes 5-10


Don't worry, someone will post "Hanlon will never go 5-10 from the stripe again" and not understand that this team has so many weaknesses (still) and can find ways to lose.


this is fucking retarded.


Sorry for overreaction. I'm pissed. This would have been a very good win.


No need to apologize. I've been caught in the basketball negativity cycle for a long time and it's getting difficult to keep "big picture" goals in mind. You'd have to be blind not to see progress from last year to this year, but I'm afraid we're not seeing enough. What I can't stand are the excuses (youth, injuries, etc.) because every program goes through that. To make matters worse there are many ACC programs (our competition) that can pretty much bank on out-recruiting us consistently, including some who frequently land game changing talent.

I don't know how this year will play out, or next year. I'm just afraid that we're building towards a single year of a "very good" basketball team, and that's a small window. I love that we seem to have a solid backcourt now, but I'm afraid that if we don't see some more W's this year, recruiting will stagnate. I didn't expect them to hang with NC State like they did, and there are encouraging signs, but there are also discouraging signs, like the Wake game. We're going on 5 years since the last NCAA tourney appearance - Tyrese Rice played for that team. It's not easy to stay indoctrinated.


We've been impacted by four years of Spaz and Gene and it has made us reactionary to legitimate excuse which is really not better than being overly generous in excuses in my opinion. Specifically, this team was historically young last year and still is this year. You can argue that it is self inflicted youth, but I don't think that's productive at this point. I happen to believe pretty strongly that Skinner's best years were passed him. This remains essentially beyond proving so it is nothing more than an opinion, but because I believe this I had little issue with his firing other than the GDF'd manner it was conducted (a manner which coincidentally probably played a role in the inability to retain Skinner players or recruits FWIW). I further don't buy into the running off of legitimate upperclassman help (I recently read an article in which Ravenel was quoted as saying he was mad at the school for the manner of firing Skinner for instance, Reggie to a guaranteed 7 figure contract, likelihood of Rakim leaving because his high school coach was leaving). This has been discussed a lot and is again essentially unprovable and therefore a matter of opinion. Because I believe it was OK to fire Skinner and because I don't believe that Donahue mangled the aftermath as many do, I give Donahue the benefit of the youth excuse. Conversely, Spaz' youth was entirely self inflicted and illegitimate in my opinion.

There has been at least one obvious an inarguable misstep in offering Moton over Cotton. This is a head scratcher of epic proportions. Now, it could have prevented the recruitment of Hanlan and/or Rahon who are both superior players to Cotton, but it also would likely have prevented last year from being quite so disasterous.

As to the superiority of ACC peer recruitment. I dislike this argument. The Sidney Lowes and Frank Haiths of the world outrecruited Al every year they coached on paper, but Al out recruited (or coached up) to a degree that beat both when taken in the aggregate by a wide margin. It appears that Donahue shares Al's ability to identify talent and/or coach it up. I've never believed our ACC peers (other than the very top) have actually out recruited us. I was concerned that the new ACC coaches would be superior to the old and I think they are slightly but they still stink on the whole.

As to the single year window thing, I believe that was brought in by our friend carolina and her twirling agendas. She claimed that Donahue fed on the model of recruiting for one year at Cornell. It was BS when she said it the first time but it has perpetuated. Donahue won the IVY (which is kind of a big deal at Cornell) and got a consequent tourney berth three years from 2007 to 2009. That's a funny looking one year window. I would argue that our current team has at least a two year window, but really more likely a 3 year window. I see no reason it doesn't start next season and without attrition or injury definitley continue the following year. The third year, Anderson and Clifford will be gone so of course some restocking will be necessary. But 2-3 years is pretty normal for a college basketball window.

I share your concern that losses, even close losses, will prevent recruiting uptick or cause stagnation.
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