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I know Belichick essentially forced Brady out, but i feel like I've lost a little respect for Brady. Tampa Bay is a pathetic organization with terrible fans. Pretty much any sports team in Florida (save for college football) could be described this way. A bunch of wannabes will pack up the stadium, but I have a feeling the best that's going to happen is that the Bucs make the playoffs as a Wild Card and go one-and-done, the excitement will die off. Either that, or Brady will end up with some sort of career-ending injury and he'll retire, leaving the Bucs to continue their pathetic existence.

RegalBCeagle {l Wrote}:I know Belichick essentially forced Brady out, but i feel like I've lost a little respect for Brady. Tampa Bay is a pathetic organization with terrible fans. Pretty much any sports team in Florida (save for college football) could be described this way. A bunch of wannabes will pack up the stadium, but I have a feeling the best that's going to happen is that the Bucs make the playoffs as a Wild Card and go one-and-done, the excitement will die off. Either that, or Brady will end up with some sort of career-ending injury and he'll retire, leaving the Bucs to continue their pathetic existence.

I think it is rather unfortunate that the GOAT and 20 year veteran isn't going to finish up his career with the team that he played in 9 Superbowls and won 6.

He was a $7 million cap hit, plus a $30 million salary. There was never any chance the Pats were coming close to $37 million, or offering multiple years to even out the cap hit, to a 43 year old version of Tom Brady.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:I find Pats fans saying Brady isn't good anymore now that he'll be with a different team pretty fun. It's very Boston fan of you all (note I cheer for every Boston team except for the Pats)

We were actually saying he wasn't good the last two seasons with the Pats.

He was better two years ago. Rough end to the season but solid playoffs. Last year he was probably in the top 9-12 range in terms of QBs.

Agreed that he was better two years ago, and was solid when he needed to be in the Super Bowl. But they won running Michel behind that line, Develin and Gronk. Lost Brown and Gronk and Develin gets shelved, and suddenly no one stacks the box. Pundits conclude that Michel isn't good and Brady's receivers stink.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:It's very Boston fan of you all (note I cheer for every Boston team except for the Pats)

Why not?

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:I find Pats fans saying Brady isn't good anymore now that he'll be with a different team pretty fun. It's very Boston fan of you all (note I cheer for every Boston team except for the Pats)

We were actually saying he wasn't good the last two seasons with the Pats.

He was better two years ago. Rough end to the season but solid playoffs. Last year he was probably in the top 9-12 range in terms of QBs.

Agreed that he was better two years ago, and was solid when he needed to be in the Super Bowl. But they won running Michel behind that line, Develin and Gronk. Lost Brown and Gronk and Develin gets shelved, and suddenly no one stacks the box. Pundits conclude that Michel isn't good and Brady's receivers stink.

I think a lot of pink hats underestimate how important the blocking of Develin and Gronk was.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:I find Pats fans saying Brady isn't good anymore now that he'll be with a different team pretty fun. It's very Boston fan of you all (note I cheer for every Boston team except for the Pats)

I think that any sane Pats fan (not the handful of idiots that are out burning Brady shirts) will note that the loss of Brady REALLY sucks. But, the realist will say that we started to lose Brady 2 years ago. He's definitely the GOAT from a totality perspective, but he was generally just a good QB the last 2 years. He's probably still the most intelligent QB in the business, but his body can't do what it used to be able to do. Brady could never throw the long-ball all that well, but he's truly terrible at it now, and having burner WR's doesn't help if you can't throw accurate downfield throws. He'll have some success - I don't doubt that, but this isn't the same as losing Mookie Betts in his prime. I believe that the Patriots would have performed better the next 2 years with Brady rather than without him - likely similar results to this last season (Playoffs, first round exit) but at some point this was inevitable and we mind as well start working on the future. Not sure if that's Stidham or not, but one thing is for sure - nobody will ever replace Brady.

By the way, none of this is to suggest that Sony Michel is not positively infuriating as a RB, more to note that they won the last SB because of a stupid good run blocking line, one of the best blocking TEs ever, and the use of a FB in the power I.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:in defense of brady, those picks sucked and / or had bad injury luck

Michel was the reason they won the 6th SB. They got good when they stopped throwing 40 times a game.

no they won because of the offensive line + defense (plus dee ford lining up offsides).

they could find a back who can't catch and could get 4.7 ypc wherever in the draft.

Michel ran hard in the back half of his rookie year and grinded out yards. He fell at the first sign of contact last year. He was like Barry Sanders but the exact opposite.

RegalBCeagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:I find Pats fans saying Brady isn't good anymore now that he'll be with a different team pretty fun. It's very Boston fan of you all (note I cheer for every Boston team except for the Pats)

I think that any sane Pats fan (not the handful of idiots that are out burning Brady shirts) will note that the loss of Brady REALLY sucks. But, the realist will say that we started to lose Brady 2 years ago. He's definitely the GOAT from a totality perspective, but he was generally just a good QB the last 2 years. He's probably still the most intelligent QB in the business, but his body can't do what it used to be able to do. Brady could never throw the long-ball all that well, but he's truly terrible at it now, and having burner WR's doesn't help if you can't throw accurate downfield throws. He'll have some success - I don't doubt that, but this isn't the same as losing Mookie Betts in his prime. I believe that the Patriots would have performed better the next 2 years with Brady rather than without him - likely similar results to this last season (Playoffs, first round exit) but at some point this was inevitable and we mind as well start working on the future. Not sure if that's Stidham or not, but one thing is for sure - nobody will ever replace Brady.

correct

RegalBCeagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:I find Pats fans saying Brady isn't good anymore now that he'll be with a different team pretty fun. It's very Boston fan of you all (note I cheer for every Boston team except for the Pats)

I think that any sane Pats fan (not the handful of idiots that are out burning Brady shirts) will note that the loss of Brady REALLY sucks. But, the realist will say that we started to lose Brady 2 years ago. He's definitely the GOAT from a totality perspective, but he was generally just a good QB the last 2 years. He's probably still the most intelligent QB in the business, but his body can't do what it used to be able to do. Brady could never throw the long-ball all that well, but he's truly terrible at it now, and having burner WR's doesn't help if you can't throw accurate downfield throws. He'll have some success - I don't doubt that, but this isn't the same as losing Mookie Betts in his prime. I believe that the Patriots would have performed better the next 2 years with Brady rather than without him - likely similar results to this last season (Playoffs, first round exit) but at some point this was inevitable and we mind as well start working on the future. Not sure if that's Stidham or not, but one thing is for sure - nobody will ever replace Brady.

From the Bucs perspective, even if he’s average, he brings a ton of excitement compared to the last 2 decades since our last SB win. I’ve endured more God awful boring football than anyone should have to endure between BC and the Bucs.

We’ll get a ton of prime time games, win ~10 games a year and lose somewhere along the line in the playoffs. It’s better than we would’ve done with Jameis. It’s also nice guys like ME13 and 12SZN will finally get the national recognition.

I was doing a little reflecting of all the stuff that has happened in my life over the 20 years of TB12 as a Patriot.

The best things that happened:
- Birth of my 2 kids

The worst things that happened:
- Discovering this forum
- Deciding to join this forum

Was hoping that somehow TB would end up a Raider. Would have been pretty cool for the first year in Vegas.
I'll root for him in Tampa. Why not? Nobody cares about the Buccs. They should bring back the orange creamsicle unis.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

RegalBCeagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:I find Pats fans saying Brady isn't good anymore now that he'll be with a different team pretty fun. It's very Boston fan of you all (note I cheer for every Boston team except for the Pats)

I think that any sane Pats fan (not the handful of idiots that are out burning Brady shirts) will note that the loss of Brady REALLY sucks. But, the realist will say that we started to lose Brady 2 years ago. He's definitely the GOAT from a totality perspective, but he was generally just a good QB the last 2 years. He's probably still the most intelligent QB in the business, but his body can't do what it used to be able to do. Brady could never throw the long-ball all that well, but he's truly terrible at it now, and having burner WR's doesn't help if you can't throw accurate downfield throws. He'll have some success - I don't doubt that, but this isn't the same as losing Mookie Betts in his prime. I believe that the Patriots would have performed better the next 2 years with Brady rather than without him - likely similar results to this last season (Playoffs, first round exit) but at some point this was inevitable and we mind as well start working on the future. Not sure if that's Stidham or not, but one thing is for sure - nobody will ever replace Brady.

From the Bucs perspective, even if he’s average, he brings a ton of excitement compared to the last 2 decades since our last SB win. I’ve endured more God awful boring football than anyone should have to endure between BC and the Bucs.

We’ll get a ton of prime time games, win ~10 games a year and lose somewhere along the line in the playoffs. It’s better than we would’ve done with Jameis. It’s also nice guys like ME13 and 12SZN will finally get the national recognition.

Jesus.

Giants-Patriots Super Bowl on Fox right now.

What. A. Game.

MF73-Eleazar {l Wrote}:Giants-Patriots Super Bowl on Fox right now.

What. A. Game.

For Giants fans. For everyone else it was pretty terrible. Up there with rams pats two years ago for snoozefest.

MF73-Eleazar {l Wrote}:Giants-Patriots Super Bowl on Fox right now.

What. A. Game.

So i watched most of the game, just to see the play where with about 2 minutes to go Eli shook off about half a dozen tackles, heaves it downfield and the guy catches it with one hand and his helmet. Just as this play was developing, my wife began an accusatory conversation about what happened to some wine glasses.

That play is what lost the game, as the Patriots were ahead at the time with very little time left. I had the same feeling with that play as when Bucky Dent hit a soft fly ball off Mike Torrez into the nets at Fenway and won a playoff game for the Yankees. It never should have happened.

Especially given the 8 different holdings on the play. And Eli being "in the grasp" of Jarvis Green.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Especially given the 8 different holdings on the play. And Eli being "in the grasp" of Jarvis Green.

So much sadz. Of course, you neglect to mention the refs could also could have called two defensive holdings and a PI on the play--according to Rodney Harrison. Also, having one handful of jersey doesn't constitute in the grasp which is why it was properly not called.

Glad you agree the play should have been called back because of offsetting penalties.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Glad you agree the play should have been called back because of offsetting penalties.

Not really. I like it when the zebras put their flags away and let the players decide, even though the Patriots won at least two Super Bowls operating under the principle that the refs can't and won't call everything. Live by the sword, die by the sword. The Giants were always just too physical and strong for the Patriots and Coughlin didn't wet himself when he found himself across the field from Belichick.

Even still, if you got that selective offsetting penalty call, you and I both know that Eli would just have made another play. He was always just a bit better than Brady in the head to head match ups. Like the reverse Payton or something. While Eli is dropping the perfect pass into Mario Manningham's breadbasket, Tommy Terrific is overthrowing Randy Moss or Wes Welker or otherwise just not getting it done when it matters the most. No shame in that. He has had a fantastic career and can almost, but not quite be mentioned in the same company as Joe Montana.

Okay.

I don't like this Gronk move for the Bucs. Discuss

It's a great move for the Pats no matter how you slice it. You're going to say that the Bucs don't need a TE but assuming he gets back in shape, this is a significant upgrade.

All of that said, make it happen now because Brady has been noticeably sliding for a couple of years now. I like the aggressive move.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:It's a great move for the Pats no matter how you slice it. You're going to say that the Bucs don't need a TE but assuming he gets back in shape, this is a significant upgrade.

All of that said, make it happen now because Brady has been noticeably sliding for a couple of years now. I like the aggressive move.

I'm not a huge OJ Howard guy. My concern is with Gronk (and his injury history)

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:It's a great move for the Pats no matter how you slice it. You're going to say that the Bucs don't need a TE but assuming he gets back in shape, this is a significant upgrade.

All of that said, make it happen now because Brady has been noticeably sliding for a couple of years now. I like the aggressive move.

I'm not a huge OJ Howard guy. My concern is with Gronk (and his injury history)

What's the risk, cap room?

If you cut Brate and the Pats sign him for free, that won't look so great. I suspect the Bucs will try to trade one of them, but not sure there's a trade market.

NFL insider Leroy apparently broke this news 2 weeks ago.
I find that hilarious... boop!

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:If you cut Brate and the Pats sign him for free, that won't look so great. I suspect the Bucs will try to trade one of them, but not sure there's a trade market.

Doubt they trade Brate. They’ll move Howard.

Tom Brady is laughing his fucking ass off today

NE 2-3
Brady 4-2