Patriots Weirdos

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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby hansen on Wed May 04, 2016 10:17 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
hansen {l Wrote}:
gallopingghost {l Wrote}:Looks like Ted Olsen got a 14 day extension to file the en banc. What the hell. If the guy can basically make W the President, he ought to be able to do this.


Assuming he has better/more important cases to work on.


A. Really? That's a dumb assumption

B. evidently not, since he took this one.


Is this case really that interesting/worthwhile? I imagine someone of his stature at thisp Long in his career has his pick of cases and I never thought the issues at stake here are really all that intriguing. Maybe I'm missing something though as I have not followed it as closely as some.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Wed May 04, 2016 10:20 pm

hansen {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
hansen {l Wrote}:
gallopingghost {l Wrote}:Looks like Ted Olsen got a 14 day extension to file the en banc. What the hell. If the guy can basically make W the President, he ought to be able to do this.


Assuming he has better/more important cases to work on.


A. Really? That's a dumb assumption

B. evidently not, since he took this one.


Is this case really that interesting/worthwhile? I imagine someone of his stature at thisp Long in his career has his pick of cases and I never thought the issues at stake here are really all that intriguing. Maybe I'm missing something though as I have not followed it as closely as some.


Really? It's the NFLPA

and any case with an outside shot at SCOTUS and this much press is more interesting than his average day.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby gallopingghost on Thu May 05, 2016 1:50 pm

hansen {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
hansen {l Wrote}:
gallopingghost {l Wrote}:Looks like Ted Olsen got a 14 day extension to file the en banc. What the hell. If the guy can basically make W the President, he ought to be able to do this.


Assuming he has better/more important cases to work on.


A. Really? That's a dumb assumption

B. evidently not, since he took this one.


Is this case really that interesting/worthwhile? I imagine someone of his stature at thisp Long in his career has his pick of cases and I never thought the issues at stake here are really all that intriguing. Maybe I'm missing something though as I have not followed it as closely as some.


Hansen, the reason he took the case is quite simple. He gets to see pictures of Gisele on Tom's phone that no one else gets to see.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Thu May 05, 2016 1:56 pm

gallopingghost {l Wrote}:
hansen {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
hansen {l Wrote}:
gallopingghost {l Wrote}:Looks like Ted Olsen got a 14 day extension to file the en banc. What the hell. If the guy can basically make W the President, he ought to be able to do this.


Assuming he has better/more important cases to work on.


A. Really? That's a dumb assumption

B. evidently not, since he took this one.


Is this case really that interesting/worthwhile? I imagine someone of his stature at thisp Long in his career has his pick of cases and I never thought the issues at stake here are really all that intriguing. Maybe I'm missing something though as I have not followed it as closely as some.


Hansen, the reason he took the case is quite simple. He gets to see pictures of Gisele on Tom's phone that no one else gets to see.

with the strap on????

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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby gallopingghost on Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:45 pm

It looks like Kenneth Feinberg, a well know arbitration expert, filed an amicus curiae brief with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit on Tuesday in support of Tom Brady. His chances of being granted the en banc just increased.

Some of his comments:

“First, an award that creates new violations never before identified or exacted punishment far in excess of that previously prescribed, is unenforceable. It is undisputed that the award here did both. If the NFL sought to add a new violation for failure to report wrongdoing, increase the penalty for equipment violations, or begin suspending players for obstruction, it would be within its rights to do so. But these changes must come through the bargaining process — not the arbitration process. The arbitrator, whose authority is derivative of the contract, cannot modify the contract.”

It is relatively common for parties to select a non-neutral arbitrator, but this does not vitiate the arbitrator’s obligation to act without bias. The Commissioner used the guise of arbitration to dramatically alter many of the long-standing features of the parties’ course of dealing. Substantively, he created new violations and disciplinary powers. These were objectives for the bargaining table, not to be unilaterally imposed by a biased arbitrator in the arbitration itself.”

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/01/d ... -tom-brady
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:33 am

Ken Feinberg's amicus is utterly irrelevant. The real question that the Circuit will consider is "if we reopen this thing how much extra work is it going to create for us?" and "If we open Pandora's Box as it relates to arbitration how fucked up and out of control are things going to get in the SDNY and will the USDJs retaliate by deliberately ignoring us and making us work even more." People stick around Circuit Courts for three reasons--(1) They think they have a shot at the Supremes; (2) They weren't making much money--relatively speaking--as partners at AMLaw 100 firms--and figure that while the money isn't good, they can keep collecting the salary and do very little until they die--and maybe supplement it a bit teaching a class at a Law School or giving a few speeches which they have time to do because they don't work very hard; or (3) they are negotiating a deal to go back to a law firm or to become the dean of a law school--these folks have no time to focus on judicial responsibilities as they try and monetize their status. As there really isn't anyone on the 2nd Circuit who is likely to get a shot at the Supremes, the majority of that bench falls into categories 2&3. Not the most industrious bunch to be sure.

Brady's only real hope is that there are enough Patriot Fanboys on that bench. That seems unlikely although there may be a couple from Connecticut.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:13 pm

Lot of #2s up here USCA1. There's definitely a category 1 though.

EDIT: that's all I had to offer. I think this en banc request is a snowball rolling through hell.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby gallopingghost on Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:58 am

The court may not want to do it, but they may have trouble ignoring the numerous amicus briefs being filed. The latest is a group of labor law professors.

The brief points out, among other things, that Goodell linked on a knee-jerk basis Brady’s alleged involvement in the deflation of footballs to PED use without regard to the fact that the PED policy was specific negotiated, detail by detail. In turn, Goodell completely ignored the rules regarding equipment violations, which seem to be more relevant given the inclusion of Stickum, a substance that improves grip, on the list of specific ways to violate the prohibition. Since Stickum and other equipment violations call for a fine and not a suspension, the argument continues to be that Brady simply should have been fined, at worst.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -of-brady/

This is on top of the AFL-CIO brief that was filed. In addition, 21 engineering and physics professors from all over the country filed a brief.

“Although sensationalized in the press, it was no surprise to any scientist that the Patriots’ footballs lost pressure during the AFC Championship,” the report began. “As the league’s reports recognize, so-called ‘deflation’ happens naturally when any closed vessel, such as a football, moves from a warm environment to a cold one. This is not tampering. It is science. And it pervades the NFL. Games routinely are played with footballs that fall below the league’s minimum pressure requirement

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/05/24/d ... tom-brady/

If denied by the circuit court, Brady most likely will appeal to Supreme Court.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:14 am

Amicus might as well mean "waste of paper". They're all coordinated by the Union's counsel anyway, and everyone knows it. They are quite easy to ignore.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby HJS on Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:47 am

I think it is funny that Brady didn't learn anything from Clemens and Bonds. While keeping up a prolonged fight for his "legacy", Brady assures that Deflate-gate will be a major part of it.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:56 am

HJS {l Wrote}:I think it is funny that Brady didn't learn anything from Clemens and Bonds. While keeping up a prolonged fight for his "legacy", Brady assures that Deflate-gate will be a major part of it.



It will absolutely stay on his legacy, as the laughingstock that it has always been. I'm sure he'll shed a tear on his first ballot induction when he's announced by the next commissioner.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:58 am

As I said before, it doesn't matter if there are 10 million billion amicus briefs filed. The bottom line issue is whether there are enough Patriot fanboys on the 2nd Circuit to override the enormous Pandora's Box finding for Brady would open up within the Circuit and all of the extra attendant work that would come with it. I know that there were a bunch of USDJs who were enraged at Berman's decision and saw it as opening the SDNY for a deluge of what would essentially be arbitration appeals. When you consider how much the financial services industry relies on arbitration to decide just about everything and the body of law that exists basically saying "Nope, don't care how bad a job the NYSE, JAMS or AAA did on your arbitration Mr. Broker, I-Banker, etc., we are not touching it", if Berman's decision was upheld en banc the floodgates would open.

Back in my law talking days, I once obtained an ex parte TRO (gotta love NYS Supreme and Cowboy Ira Gammerman) on behalf of CSFB against a fired MD who had run one of their REIT funds. It was shocking that I was able to sweet talk Ira into giving me the TRO. Of course, and we knew it would be the case, the 1st Department reversed and hammered Gammerman for entertaining my argument that NYSE arbitration agreement wasn't binding. The only real reason we made the argument in the first place was to be a dick to the would-be plaintiff. I assume that the only reason Brady's lawyers are going through with this is to try and sway public opinion and to hurt Goodell. It is almost certain that Brady will be sitting out for 4 games, it won't be as huge a blow to his legacy and his GOAT argument if they can use the en banc process to make the process look like a with hunt. I think that attempt is likely to fail because outside of New England, everyone has a visceral hatred of Brady and the Patriots in a way they never disliked Montana. Brady is also swimming against the tide of Spygate and the notion that but for Pete Carroll being a moron he'd be 0-3 in Super Bowls played when he didn't have illegal access to his opponents practice tapes.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby HJS on Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:55 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:I think it is funny that Brady didn't learn anything from Clemens and Bonds. While keeping up a prolonged fight for his "legacy", Brady assures that Deflate-gate will be a major part of it.



It will absolutely stay on his legacy, as the laughingstock that it has always been. I'm sure he'll shed a tear on his first ballot induction when he's announced by the next commissioner.

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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:10 pm

Yeah, we all have access to espn, even the dumb articles.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:55 am

And the 2nd Circuit delivers the kill shot to Brady's legacy. I imagine at this point he will ask the Supremes to hear the matter, but there is no way in hell that will happen although Breyer and Kagan may write a furious dissent when the rest of the Supremes refuse to hear the case.

On a related note, I was talking to the member of a family that owns one of the marquis franchises. This particular member of the family and I worked as law talking guys together and he splits his time between working on some of the family's other business holdings and occasionally working in a business role for the franchise. He told me that the animus towards the Patriots and Brady that resulted in this draconian sentence for a relatively mild offense--if we assume that Brady did in fact have the balls deflated--is the fact that the Pats were caught red handed cheating in some major ways (outside the normal parameters of seeking competitive advantage) and the league and owners chose to look the other way because of the damage it would do to the overall image of the league. Spygate was only a small portion of the spying and cheating that went on. Consequently, there was considerable pressure from the owners to drop the hammer here. Kraft thought he could alleviate the pressure by copping to the cheating, but the owners wanted to see the Patriots hurt on the field and while they were happy to humiliate Kraft, they were going to get Brady one way or the other. In essence, Brady got OJ'ed--hammered with a big punishment for a minor offense because he had skated on the really bad stuff in the past.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:07 am

Ha, kill shot to the legacy, that's almost as fun as the David Ortiz won't make the HOF shtick. The #2 player on the top 100 at 38 will survive I suspect.

Anyone with a brain or outside of 128 knew this was coming. Impacts nothing, other than the continued fucking of the NFLPA for that shitty CBA they signed.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:09 am

Oh, and if the owners think this is going to impact the Patriots on the field, they're dumber than I thought following the self-destructive smear campaign of their best player.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby HJS on Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:34 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Oh, and if the owners think this is going to impact the Patriots on the field, they're dumber than I thought following the self-destructive smear campaign of their best player.

Agreed. Brady's punishment does nothing to the prospects of this year's team. The draft picks punishment marginally hinder the post-Brady Pats. That is alpha-omega of the implications of all punishments.

Arguably, the most severe penalty in this whole mess is the reputation impact to Brady and his legacy. Whether you feel the character assination was justified or not, anyone with a brain or outside of 128 knows that there has been a negative impact to both. When faced with wrongdoing, Brady had an option to follow the path of Andy Pettite. Instead, he chose the path of Roger Clemens.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:58 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Oh, and if the owners think this is going to impact the Patriots on the field, they're dumber than I thought following the self-destructive smear campaign of their best player.

Agreed. Brady's punishment does nothing to the prospects of this year's team. The draft picks punishment marginally hinder the post-Brady Pats. That is alpha-omega of the implications of all punishments.

Arguably, the most severe penalty in this whole mess is the reputation impact to Brady and his legacy. Whether you feel the character assination was justified or not, anyone with a brain or outside of 128 knows that there has been a negative impact to both. When faced with wrongdoing, Brady had an option to follow the path of Andy Pettite. Instead, he chose the path of Roger Clemens.


So he'll be a rich, unanimous hall of famer most people hate instead of a rich, unanimous hall of famer most people dislike. I'm sure that sucks for him. And good job comparing steroids to ball deflation, commish.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby angrychicken on Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:01 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}: And good job comparing steroids to ball deflation...

tee-hee
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby DavidGordonsFoot on Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:14 pm

angrychicken {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}: And good job comparing steroids to ball deflation...

tee-hee

rhymes with T-R-E.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby hansen on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:24 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Oh, and if the owners think this is going to impact the Patriots on the field, they're dumber than I thought following the self-destructive smear campaign of their best player.

Agreed. Brady's punishment does nothing to the prospects of this year's team. The draft picks punishment marginally hinder the post-Brady Pats. That is alpha-omega of the implications of all punishments.

Arguably, the most severe penalty in this whole mess is the reputation impact to Brady and his legacy. Whether you feel the character assination was justified or not, anyone with a brain or outside of 128 knows that there has been a negative impact to both. When faced with wrongdoing, Brady had an option to follow the path of Andy Pettite. Instead, he chose the path of Roger Clemens.


So he'll be a rich, unanimous hall of famer most people hate instead of a rich, unanimous hall of famer most people dislike. I'm sure that sucks for him. And good job comparing steroids to ball deflation, commish.


NFL hall of fame is a joke. I'd argue the EO hof is just as prestigious.
That is not a slight on Brady but the hof itself.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby DavidGordonsFoot on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:30 pm

hansen {l Wrote}:NFL hall of fame is a joke. I'd argue the EO hof is just as prestigious.

:bored

Call me when Canton's got a story about a drunk college kid going off on a former child actor with down syndrome about which version of "My Way" is better.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby eagle33 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:14 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Ha, kill shot to the legacy, that's almost as fun as the David Ortiz won't make the HOF shtick. The #2 player on the top 100 at 38 will survive I suspect.

Anyone with a brain or outside of 128 knew this was coming. Impacts nothing, other than the continued fucking of the NFLPA for that shitty CBA they signed.


This.

The whole deflategate thing is more about a few owners that pressured Goodell to go after the Krafts and the Patriots than the PSI of footballs.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby angrychicken on Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:19 pm

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:
hansen {l Wrote}:NFL hall of fame is a joke. I'd argue the EO hof is just as prestigious.

:bored

Call me when Canton's got a story about a drunk college kid going off on a former child actor with down syndrome about which version of "My Way" is better.

I'm a huge fan of that story, but I'd be willing to bet that Michael Irvin has a few stories that could top it. :shrug
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:19 pm

The kill shot is that he will never be considered the GOAT. The truth is, he probably already lost that case to Montana by virtue of Eli carving his initials in Brady's ass twice and the fact that but for Pete Carrol's staggering idiocy he'd be 0-3 in Super Bowls where he didn't have illegal access to the opposing team's playbook. Now that he has been firmly and indelibly branded as a cheater, whatever case he was in a position to make is out the door and he probably becomes the Barry Bonds of the NFL. And that absolutely kills Brady because he knows it better than anyone else and if you don't think so then you aren't paying attention.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:39 pm

Oh, I definitely Brady cares about whether this changes his GOAT status, assuming you think he is GOAT without the scandal, which I am not sure I do anyway. I'm just saying no one else really gives a fuck.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:55 pm

brady thinks he is goat. like tedwardo, i don't agree that brady is goat
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby flyingelvii on Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:24 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Oh, I definitely Brady cares about whether this changes his GOAT status, assuming you think he is GOAT without the scandal, which I am not sure I do anyway. I'm just saying no one else really gives a fuck.

People's decisions about Brady were made the second the NFL forgot about science and then started leaking blatant lies, specifically the Mort one. Of course, this latest decision has nothing to with his innocence or guilt, or it shouldn't have at least. Of course, people will forget about that similar to how people forget what Spygate was really about.
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Re: Patriots Weirdos

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:27 pm

I do not think Brady thinks he is the GOAT yet--he seems to have a lot of respect for Montana. I think if he is able to win one more Super Bowl than you will see that machine gin itself up somewhere outside the comfy environs of 128. I still don't think it gets him there because Montana's resume is simply better. However, with this black cloud hanging over him forever and ever, I think the hype machine at the WWL and elsewhere will stay silent.
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