eagleeggs
Post #1619
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Just Thinking.......... Reply
I think about this after watching about 15 games every Saturday.........it's this
BC, as an institution, has done such great thinks over the last 30 years. It has forged ahead with it's mission with tremendous effort and competence and accomplishment.....
Yet, it appears to me, a college sports fan, that BC is just "collecting and cashing" it's ACC paycheck
Football program is a mess. Basketball program is a doormat. Coaching salaries at BC in comparison to other ACC schools are at the bottom. Facilities are barely adequate and in the case of the football program, inadequate. Game day atmosphere, parking, season ticket sales, DBS, all need to be addressed...
The point is, BC has historically been "behind the curve" in just about anything to do with competing with like schools (i.e. schools in their conference) in athletics. BC never leads, it follows. I am not advocating that BC do everything that Florida State or Clemson does with their football programs........but if BC is , in fact, competing at the ACC level then why don't they "invest" more in their programs in order to compete? That's the crux of my issue.
BC has been so successful, so progressive over recent decades in the academic world. Yet, it's doings on the athletic fields seem to be so passive, so regressive, so limited that it does not seem to square with the accomplishments of the schools over recent years. Why is this? Is it or is it not correctible? Or does BC view ACC money as a way to pay for it's student athletic services of the broad student body and not much more?
If a school is going to travel in the circles of "big time" athletics in the 21st century, then why doesn't BC make more of a financial and institutional effort to compete in these circles rather than being competitively "irrelevent" as it is currently in FB and BB??
eagleeggs
9/23 9:39 AM | IP: Logged
kimy
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Post #8667
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
What is BC doing with all the additional monies they are receiving from the ACC yearly? From the Bicknell era when I first had my season tix not much has changed. Yes the stadium is new and there is a Yawkey Center. But both are woefully inadequate in this day and age. And where is the permanent indoor practice facility?
This post was edited on 9/23 10:36 AM by kimy
"Work hard, laugh often, and keep your honor " - Tim Russert
9/23 9:48 AM | IP: Logged
Eaglehoof
Post #1971
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
From what I can see BC athletics appears to have always been an afterthought at BC, in terms of facilities (the BB team played in what was a glorified HS gym even in the 60s), coaches salaries, money spent on recruiting, etc. This information was unknown to me, I am not a BC guy and live out of the northeast, until about 7-8 years ago when one of the posters on this board begin to talk about his experiences in the BC FB program, and how the impetus appeared to be saving money in many instances. The status of the FB program then began to make perfect sense. If you look at how the program is apparently being managed, the attitude and abilities of the coaches that were hired, game day environment, DBS, it all fits together. TOB was able to last so long at BC because his attitude (you cant win more than 8-9 games a year at BC because (insert your favorite excuse: BC is a small private school, we are in the northeast, we are catholic, the weather is not perfect, Jesus does not like our team, etc.) I wondered how TOB could make statements like that and keep his job. How long would the HC at Alabama, LSU, Auburn, or 30 other schools last if they had made that statement? My conclusion is that TOB lasted so long because his attitude was no different than the higher ups in the program, not only GDF but higher. This is of course speculation on my part and it may just be that the higher ups simply do not think that athletics are of much importance and do not therefore pay much attention. Either way it is not good for BC FB r BB. What would help: change the attitude or change the investment in the athletic programs. Retiring GDF was a good first step, hiring a competent AD will be the next, hiring a smart and competent FB HC should then take place, and then giving SD as much help as he needs for the BB program. Will all of this be done? Let us hope so. I am much more confident about the BB program. In my opinion SD is the right coach for BC, and BC is the right place for SD, and I look for strong improvement in the won-and-loss record this year and next. As for BC hockey, is the Beanpot Championship televised locally? Can that be picked up by ESPN or one of the more national TV networks. Given BC's abilities in hockey, there should be much effort given to putting this product out there.
9/23 10:46 AM | IP: Logged
eagleeggs
Post #1620
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
Excellent thoughts, eaglehoof.
What disturbs me the most about BC athletics is that the school is very willing to take in millions in ACC TV money. BC is willing to compete on the field with FSU,Clemson,VT, Virginia,NC etc etc etc. But BC does not seem to be willing the spend the money necessary to be successful on the playing fields. Strikes me as phony and hypocritical.
eagleeggs
9/23 11:05 AM | IP: Logged
jcwr
Post #1876
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
Very intelligent and thought-provoking post, Eaglehoof.
9/23 11:54 AM | IP: Logged
riceassistparty
Post #8602
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
We're the Vanderbilt of the ACC - yes, we'd like to be competitive but if we're not, it won't burn the school's leadership. This is unfortunate because Skinner and TOB/Jags had the revenue programs right where they needed to be just 4-5 years ago. Hopefully, Donahue is on his way on the bball side but the football program is a serious disaster. Every team I watch on tv these days is far more talented than we are - and I'm not just talking about the SEC/Big 12. Even MAAC schools look far more impressive.
9/23 11:59 AM | IP: Logged
VILL
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Post #4674
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
Say what you want about TOB but he had the right formula here.......Jags/Spaz have not done the job in recruiting although most programs have made giant leaps forward in facilities etc while Bc sat on its fat ass....there are no Greens .Kiwis Toals Rajis Braces etc on this current team....we do basically nothing in NJ.....made a living there in the past....while we love to shit on a guy like Schiano....RU just beat An sec team on the road and are more talented than us....
9/23 2:22 PM | IP: Logged
bcabroad
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Post #1032
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feel free to open your checkbook. I do. don't forget BC is Reply
spending over a billion dollars on facilities for the university overall. there is no doubt in my mind that that is the focus. people on this board are totally unrealistic as to what BC wants to be. In truth we will be sports wise more or less what we are academically. a top 30-50 program.
Don't get me wrong I love BC sports but with a once in a generation QB we were what 8 and 3. I get that we throw out ever to excel but being the top quartile academically and in sports is by any definition excelling.
I said 5 years ago that instability and coaching turnover would be a real issue with our team. TOB wasn't exciting and I for one got tired of him lobbying for every job but the one he had but we consistently won. We'll get back there again but when he says 7-5 or 8-4 is about the best BC has in it he's not wrong.
Yell at me all you want but I just gave a large pledge to the school over the next five years. I know what I'm supporting and what we're likely to be.
I don't like what I'm seeing on the field or knowing that Clemson will murder us next week but I support BC.
you want to change it - put your money where you mouth is. 100 bucks a year is not enough. If you want BC to spend then give it the funds to do so but don't expect BC to be better than a consistent top 20-40 program because our history shows we won't be.
9/23 2:31 PM | IP: Logged
jcwr
Post #1877
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Re: feel free to open your checkbook. I do. don't forget BC is Reply
Well put, bcabroad. Your observations remind me of the recent front-page newspaper article about two (I believe) $50 million donations to Northeastern.
9/23 2:41 PM | IP: Logged
Eaglehoof
Post #1972
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
TOB did not have the right the formula for BC we know that from his results and his strategy. He had the right formula for TOB - to keep his job for as long as he could. If you are satisfied with 7-8 wins per year and bowl games against Toledo and Navy, then TOB is the coach for you. I assume that yu are bought into his excuses as to why BC could never do better. Then Jags/Logan come in, and even though they were putting in a new offensive system, and led the team to 11 wins and a ACCCG berth. And they did it in the next year, when Ryan had graduated. But somehow some of the posters on this board state and Jags was a fraud, and TOB was not. Jags never made any excuses - he did not need to. So you guys ignore results on the field and base your opinion on recruiting despate the fact that Jags was only here reflectively for 18 months and Spas has been here forever. You also seem ti ignore the fact that Spaz was responsible for defensive recruiting when Jags was the HC.
9/23 2:50 PM | IP: Logged
Eaglehoof
Post #1973
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Re: feel free to open your checkbook. I do. don't forget BC is Reply
To bcabroad: You are making contributions to a program that has 7-5 seasons as its goal? Why? I strenuously disagree that 7-5 or 8-4 is the best that it can be at BC. You ignore the possibility ow what BC can become, despite what Fllutie, Ryan, Kiwi, Mamula, Blackmon, and many others have shown you. You ignore the lessons in front of you when you see the changes in the game and the speed on both offense and defense from turning on your TV any Saturday. You ignore the fact that Sapz says that {speed is not that important" and therefore does not bother to recruit it. 7-5 and 8-4 is of course the best that you can do at BC if you hire henning, TOB, and Spaz to be the HCs. If you hire a decent HC, who has kept up with changes in offensive and defensive systems over the last 40 years, you can do better than 7-5 or 8-4. Throw that inferiority complex into the garbarge, man. You do not need it and it does not help. I strongly suspect that BC can afford to hire a HC and coordinators with the necessary skills and experience without a large donation on my part.
This post was edited on 9/23 3:06 PM by Eaglehoof
9/23 3:00 PM | IP: Logged
VILL
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Post #4676
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
Your right hoof...Jags was the man...those were his players he won with and where he is coaching now speaks volumes........who was in charge of the offesive recruiting under Jags,,,,,
9/23 3:02 PM | IP: Logged
secqq
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
Hoof, what makes you think Spaz was in charge of defensive recruiting ?
9/23 3:05 PM | IP: Logged
VILL
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Post #4677
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
Coordinators dont have to hit the road and recruit....and Hc should have final say who gets offers.....12/29 says alot
9/23 3:21 PM | IP: Logged
jcwr
Post #1878
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
Did he really say "Speed is not that important"? I don't recall seeing that on this board previously. Unbelieveable. Astounding.
9/23 3:30 PM | IP: Logged
Eaglehoof
Post #1974
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Let me make one more point.... Reply
You say that 7-5 or 8-4 is the best that we can expect. Jags/Logan have already proved that such is NOT TRUE. They came to BC and won 11 games the first year. And with whom did they win the 11 games with: TOBs PLAYERS. So Jags and Logan, coaching AT BC, took players they inherited from TOB, put in some of their own system, won 11 games and got BC to the ACCCG. This should forever disprove, to any one who follows the BC FB program, that it is not possible to win more than 7 or 8 games in a year at BC, even if you do not have time to recruit the players that you want, just be installing a good system. The fact that Jags won 11 games with TOBs players (with whom TOB could never win more than 8 games) is not a discredit to Jags, it is in fact proof that you can win more than 7 or 8 games at BC even if you do not have players that are perfect for your system, if you know what you are doing and you play to win.
This post was edited on 9/23 3:48 PM by Eaglehoof
9/23 3:39 PM | IP: Logged
VILL
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Post #4679
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Re: Let me make one more point.... Reply
Come on hoof...No coach here has ever been able to recruit great speed here,,...one season doesnt forever change anything....and i can say i cant remember a BC team as ill prepared for a bowl game as we were for the Vandy game or a coach who who looked as indifferent towards his team as Jags during that game.....TOB was far from perfect....but he for some reason doesnt get enough credit for the kids he brought in here and the job he did..
9/23 4:10 PM | IP: Logged
PatriotGolfer
Post #2249
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Re: Let me make one more point.... Reply
In his last 3 season, BC teams led by Coach O'Brien won 9, 9, and 10 games.
9/23 4:14 PM | IP: Logged
VILL
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Post #4680
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Re: Let me make one more point.... Reply
Lol....so there is no way he could have won 11 with the team Jags inherited
9/23 4:29 PM | IP: Logged
Booger Dawson
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Post #146
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Re: Let me make one more point.... Reply
If TOB had said 8 to 9 wins was the best he could do at BC, I wold have agreed with him.
9/23 4:45 PM | IP: Logged
eagledad04
Post #2141
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
BC athletics have been socialized.
In other words, revenues garnered from football are redistributed to other university operating budgets to make things fair, but not reinvested back into the football program that would otherise allow growth. I'm afraid Spaz is here for as long as he wants to be here because he fits the university's model, which is put a product (football) on the field that has a high graduation rate, is average but not spectacular, collect an ACC check, with the understanding that winning is not the most important thing. Sad. Very sad.
9/23 4:50 PM | IP: Logged
WINNINGEAGLE
Post #2565
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Re: Let me make one more point.... Reply
Great post, eggs.
BC has the money - a ton of money; they are just being cheap. And their miserly ways have caught up to them big time. They "save" about $1 - $1.5 million by paying Spazoo around a million bucks. But the piss-poor product on the field costs them about 10x that every year in lost revenues from DBS, regular attendance, concessions, advertising revenues, etc. Penny wise and pound foolish beyond belief. And hypocritical, as well - pay $2,500 for parking, pay DBS ticket prices, and enjoy the $hitshow. My alma mater is embarrassing me.
This post was edited on 9/23 5:06 PM by WINNINGEAGLE
Boston College: North Carolina during the week and KENTUCKY on Saturday. (Source: US News & BCS Rankings)
9/23 5:04 PM | IP: Logged
RMB'62
Post #12855
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OK, so if that is the case... Reply
..giving $$$ to the Flynn Fund makes no sense, since one is not specifically subsidizing BC athletics...I could care less if BC has a major in religion or philosophy or some such hooey. Welcome to the FCS, boys and girls!
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
9/23 6:50 PM | IP: Logged
bcabroad
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Post #1033
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so with all of the players you cited what was their record. Reply
what was our record when coughlin was here. BC as a team does a nice job and we should be competitive. However, your comments actually confirm my point. I believe 1940 was the last time we had a world beating coach and came even close to the level you're looking for. 1940.
I personally prefer a competitive team that wins at least 7 a year and does so the right way. ND has sold its soul for a "great" coach. Prefer BC does not follow that path. My view and you won't change it. If you disgree then do more than talk. Match my personal pledge to the school - 50k over five years. When you put your money where you mouth is then you have every right to demand a return.
I think if you expect 50k multiplied by the readers on EA then you may actually start giving the school some of the resources it needs to take this thing to the level you desire.
I watched ou - with all its advantages piss away a game yesterday.There are very few programs that will compete at a high level year in and year out - look at how long ND has been in the wilderness. If you set unrealistic expecations you will be perpetually disappointed.
9/23 7:08 PM | IP: Logged
Booger Dawson
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Post #147
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Re: so with all of the players you cited what was their record. Reply
I hope thy use some of your $50k to have a pizza/pool party at Spaz's at end of the year. Each player can receive a participants trophy. Yeah!
9/23 7:18 PM | IP: Logged
WINNINGEAGLE
Post #2567
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Re: so with all of the players you cited what was their record. Reply
Originally posted by bcabroad:
I personally prefer a competitive team that wins at least 7 a year and does so the right way.
I think if you expect 50k multiplied by the readers on EA then you may actually start giving the school some of the resources it needs to take this thing to the level you desire.
1. In my opinion, the "right way" is simply staying within NCAA rules and guidelines. No more. No less. I am sick and tired of snobs who get off if BC "is above" NCAA rules. I want to win the ACC and get to a BCS Bowl 2 - 3 out of ten years. I could care less about winning 7 games a year and telling everyone who will listen (essentially no one) that we win our 7 games with higher standards, blah, blah, blah. Ignorant and sickening. Play within the rules; absolutely no need or reason to be above them.
2. Great that you're giving the $50K. Kudos. However, BC already HAS the resources to improve facilities and hire a top notch coaching staff. They are just too arrogant, hypocritical and/or dumb to do it.
Boston College: North Carolina during the week and KENTUCKY on Saturday. (Source: US News & BCS Rankings)
9/23 7:41 PM | IP: Logged
Eaglehoof
Post #1975
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Re: OK, so if that is the case... Reply
To" eagledad: It is very possible that your assumptions are true (collect the ACC check, etc.). I am hoping that the state of the FB program reflects personnel problems rather than the overall strategy handed down the the admin and BOT. We will more or less know which one is true by the timing of when they replace Spaz and who they replace him with. If Spaz only wins 4 games this year, and does not get fired, we will know that the ever to be mediocre strategy is the controlling factor.
9/23 7:49 PM | IP: Logged
bcabroad
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Post #1034
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Re: so with all of the players you cited what was their record. Reply
any proof behind your statement or just you opinion. yes we have a large endowment but there is no chance of the school doing so.
bcs bowl every 2-3 years. fsu, va tech, clemson and miami all aspire to that as well. va tech is the only one that realizes that goal and all have much more han bc ever will to achieve it.
just as well wish to be rich and immortal its equally realistic.
9/23 8:18 PM | IP: Logged
gceagle
Post #619
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
The top football recruits want to play in a at least a 60,000 seat stadium. How can you build such a stadium, not to mention tailgating, when you live in Newton. Maybe it could be done if B.C. buys the resevoir but I think Boston wants a buyer who pays taxes. It would also be risky since B.C. is in a big sports town. Not too many universities in big pro cities have great football teams.
9/23 8:34 PM | IP: Logged
cape ann eagle
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
If you write a check to the Flynn Fund you can tell them how to use it. I tell them it is for football ops now---and when Yawkey was being built it went for that--I ask for a signed letter confirming my gift---so you can and should target your gift----if you are so unhappy with sports give to other BC academic or building funds---if we ever hope to become the overall top Catholic U in America please write a check for SOMETHING--look how far we have come in the last 40 yrs. I say this as someone who is very unhappy with football-mbb-wbb and many of our minor sports---but love BC
9/23 9:53 PM | IP: Logged
eagleman99
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Post #4850
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Re: Let me make one more point.... Reply
Originally posted by PatriotGolfer:
In his last 3 season, BC teams led by Coach O'Brien won 9, 9, and 10 games.
TOB never won 10 games while at BC.
9/24 12:44 AM | IP: Logged
The Bones Man
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Post #2406
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Re: Just Thinking.......... Reply
BC went 10-3 in 2006.
I'm not big TOB guy, but I love how everybody says the limit was 7-5 or 8-4 with him. PG is right, they won 9, 9, and 10 games his last three years. So yeah, Super Jags came in with a stud, experienced super QB and got to the ACCCG to get blown out. Great. Then he rode a great defense, TOB style, and got blown out again. But really he had a prototypical TOB year, he just got lucky and the division stunk worse than usual.
None of this really matters, and this is obviously a real old argument, but the AD is all that matters right now. A good, confident AD can pick a coach, and then if he leaves, do it again to sustain whatever the first guy started. The AD pick will tell us everything...
9/24 11:01 AM | IP: Logged
11/11/10
has a job that prevents him from finishing it. actual work, you know, the thing that lawyers apparently do not seem to do all that often.
