Moss

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Re: Moss

Postby commavegarage on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:27 am

bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:It says something about how the Jets view Braylon Edwards that they decide not to re-sign him in no small part due to questions about his character and instead sign a guy who's been in jail for almost two years.


You do realize there's something called a salary cap in the National Football League, right? Because it doesn't sound like you do.


I realize that the NFL salary cap is largely a crock of shit that can be fairly easily manipulated, and that this is something the Jets to their credit have mastered. How else would you explain a $50 million deal for Santonio Holmes with a cap hit of merely $2.5 million?


You're an idiot. [bunch of non-coherent ramblings]


I don't for a second believe that it was as simple as a one-or-the-other proposition. The Holmes deal as an example that teams can offer big contracts with small cap hits (so that they are both team and player friendly in the short-term) is absolutely relevant in demonstrating that the Jets likely could have signed both Cromartie and Edwards had they chosen to. Obviously salaries had something to do with the Jets' signing Plax as opposed to Braylon, but I believe that Edwards' less than stellar dependability did as well.


There's a reason I don't make statements like this about the Patriots. It's because I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of their cap situation the way I do the Jets. It's funny to watch uniformed people make unintelligent statements. Again, go check what these players were making last year and come back to me telling me that they could've signed Santonio, Edwards, Cromartie and Smith.
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:28 am

commavegarage wrote:The Jets couldn't resign Holmes, Edwards, Cromartie, and Smith (not to mention other important players)...to think they could would be stupid. Check out what those players were making last year, then come back to me and say they could.


I never said this, and if you think i believe this then you're completely missing my two points. In fact, this post makes my point for me; there's always dead weight that can be dumped on NFL teams to allow teams to sign the guys they want. It just becomes a cost/benefit evaluation, and the Jets decided that Edwards wasn't worth the $ (and the resulting guy or two that would have to be released), and that's why they didn't re-sign him. They decided that Plax was better value and even at lesser money, it demonstrates to some degree what the Jets thought of Edwards.
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Re: Moss

Postby commavegarage on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:28 am

This is remarkably entertaining.
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:28 am

commavegarage wrote:Again, go check what these players were making last year and come back to me telling me that they could've signed Santonio, Edwards, Cromartie and Smith.


Why do you keep typing this?
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Re: Moss

Postby commavegarage on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:29 am

bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:Again, go check what these players were making last year and come back to me telling me that they could've signed Santonio, Edwards, Cromartie and Smith.


Why do you keep typing this?


Are you not suggesting they could've kept Santonio, Cromartie and at least Edwards had they wanted to?
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:33 am

commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:Again, go check what these players were making last year and come back to me telling me that they could've signed Santonio, Edwards, Cromartie and Smith.


Why do you keep typing this?


Are you not suggesting they could've kept Santonio, Cromartie and at least Edwards had they wanted to?


Yes, but there would have to have been corresponding cuts that they didn't think were worth it.
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Re: Moss

Postby commavegarage on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:35 am

bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:Again, go check what these players were making last year and come back to me telling me that they could've signed Santonio, Edwards, Cromartie and Smith.


Why do you keep typing this?


Are you not suggesting they could've kept Santonio, Cromartie and at least Edwards had they wanted to?


Yes, but there would have to have been corresponding cuts that they didn't think were worth it.


Care to name those players? Or are you just going to keep making blanket statements that make no sense?
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Re: Moss

Postby eagle9903 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:37 am

commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:Again, go check what these players were making last year and come back to me telling me that they could've signed Santonio, Edwards, Cromartie and Smith.


Why do you keep typing this?


Are you not suggesting they could've kept Santonio, Cromartie and at least Edwards had they wanted to?


Yes, but there would have to have been corresponding cuts that they didn't think were worth it.


Care to name those players? Or are you just going to keep making blanket statements that make no sense?


Admit that the Eagles beat the defending off season champion Jets this off season.
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Re: Moss

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:38 am

commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:It says something about how the Jets view Braylon Edwards that they decide not to re-sign him in no small part due to questions about his character and instead sign a guy who's been in jail for almost two years.


You do realize there's something called a salary cap in the National Football League, right? Because it doesn't sound like you do.


I realize that the NFL salary cap is largely a crock of shit that can be fairly easily manipulated, and that this is something the Jets to their credit have mastered. How else would you explain a $50 million deal for Santonio Holmes with a cap hit of merely $2.5 million?


You're an idiot. [bunch of non-coherent ramblings]


I don't for a second believe that it was as simple as a one-or-the-other proposition. The Holmes deal as an example that teams can offer big contracts with small cap hits (so that they are both team and player friendly in the short-term) is absolutely relevant in demonstrating that the Jets likely could have signed both Cromartie and Edwards had they chosen to. Obviously salaries had something to do with the Jets' signing Plax as opposed to Braylon, but I believe that Edwards' less than stellar dependability did as well.


There's a reason I don't make statements like this about the Patriots. It's because I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of their cap situation the way I do the Jets. It's funny to watch uniformed people make unintelligent statements. Again, go check what these players were making last year and come back to me telling me that they could've signed Santonio, Edwards, Cromartie and Smith.

The Jets salary cap situation was fucked until there was some writing in the new CBA that essentially forgave dead money. That gave them a significant amount of wiggle room that allowed them to go after Nnamdi, with a little help from the way Santonio structured his contract. If you want a very detailed analysis of the Jets cap situation I can direct you to another forum but you don't seem too intent on letting facts get in the way of your argument. In the meantime, please humor us with your analysis on the Jets cap situation oh wise one.
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:38 am

commavegarage wrote:Care to name those players?


Not really. I could name 2/3 of their roster if I wanted to.

commavegarage wrote:Or are you just going to keep making blanket statements that make no sense?


Yes, it's become quite obvious that you are having a hard time following an extremely basic point (that incidentally is complimentary to the Jets organization and the way they've chosen to do business).
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Re: Moss

Postby commavegarage on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:42 am

bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:Care to name those players?


Not really. I could name 2/3 of their roster if I wanted to.

commavegarage wrote:Or are you just going to keep making blanket statements that make no sense?


Yes, it's become quite obvious that you are having a hard time following an extremely basic point (that incidentally is complimentary to the Jets organization and the way they've chosen to do business).


Whatever "complimentary" statement you're making about the Jets is clearly being overshadowed by your lack of understanding of their contract situations.
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:45 am

commavegarage wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
commavegarage wrote:Care to name those players?


Not really. I could name 2/3 of their roster if I wanted to.

commavegarage wrote:Or are you just going to keep making blanket statements that make no sense?


Yes, it's become quite obvious that you are having a hard time following an extremely basic point (that incidentally is complimentary to the Jets organization and the way they've chosen to do business).


Whatever "complimentary" statement you're making about the Jets is clearly being overshadowed by your lack of understanding of their contract situations.


if you say so
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Re: Moss

Postby commavegarage on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:45 am

In your world they could sign Andre Johnson, Nnamdi Asomugha, Peyton Manning, Santonio Holmes, Terrell Suggs, and many others. All they'd have to do is "cut a few players" and do a few things with restructuring of contracts. It's so simple!
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:46 am

commavegarage wrote:In your world they could sign Andre Johnson, Nnamdi Asomugha, Peyton Manning, Santonio Holmes, Terrell Suggs, and many others. All they'd have to do is "cut a few players" and do a few things with restructuring of contracts. It's so simple!


Uh huh, exactly what I was saying OJ.
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Re: Moss

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:00 am

commavegarage wrote:In your world they could sign Andre Johnson, Nnamdi Asomugha, Peyton Manning, Santonio Holmes, Terrell Suggs, and many others. All they'd have to do is "cut a few players" and do a few things with restructuring of contracts. It's so simple!

They would not have been able to sign Andre Johnson or Terrell Suggs because they weren't FAs this year. It would have been possible to sign the rest.
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:04 am

Does anyone besides CAG seriously believe that the NFL cap is as strict a cap as the NHL's? Is that a commonly held fallacy?
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Re: Moss

Postby cvilleagle on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:10 am

bignick33 wrote:Does anyone besides CAG seriously believe that the NFL cap is as strict a cap as the NHL's? Is that a commonly held fallacy?


It was always my impression that the NHL had the strictest cap, then the NFL, then the NBA.

That being said, I don't know many of the details.
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:14 am

cvilleagle wrote:
bignick33 wrote:Does anyone besides CAG seriously believe that the NFL cap is as strict a cap as the NHL's? Is that a commonly held fallacy?


It was always my impression that the NHL had the strictest cap, then the NFL, then the NBA.

That being said, I don't know many of the details.


The lack of guaranteed money in the vast majority of contracts in the NFL is of course a huge mitigating factor that gives teams significant flexibility as compared to the NHL and NBA. And, last fall they NHL put their foot down on back-loaded contacts after that Ilya fiasco, whereas they are commonplace in the NFL (see Holmes, Santonio).
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Re: Moss

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:19 am

cvilleagle wrote:
bignick33 wrote:Does anyone besides CAG seriously believe that the NFL cap is as strict a cap as the NHL's? Is that a commonly held fallacy?


It was always my impression that the NHL had the strictest cap, then the NFL, then the NBA.

That being said, I don't know many of the details.

Both the NHL and the NFL have a hard cap that you can't go over. The big difference is that NHL contracts are 100% guaranteed whereas NFL ones aren't. The NHL also uses the average annual value (AAV) of the contract, which can allow for cap circumvention, though that has been significantly, but not fully, curbed post-Kovalchuk signing, which allows for simplicity. The only real complexities arise with bonuses that get carried over to the next year, relief stemming from Long-Term Injured Reserve and the whole buyout process (see: Yashin, Alexei).

But that seems about right. Who knows what's going to happen with the NBA's cap after they sign their new CBA.

Edit: Yeah, what Nick said. Goes to show what happens when work gets in the way of message boardery.
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:24 am

flyingelvii wrote:(see: Yashin, Alexei).


Did you hear that the Islanders may be interested in bringing him in this year? They might as well suit up Garth Snow and Ziggy Pallfy as well.
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Re: Moss

Postby eagle9903 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:26 am

bignick33 wrote:
flyingelvii wrote:(see: Yashin, Alexei).


Did you hear that the Islanders may be interested in bringing him in this year? They might as well suit up Garth Snow and Ziggy Pallfy as well.


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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:28 am

eagle9903 wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
flyingelvii wrote:(see: Yashin, Alexei).


Did you hear that the Islanders may be interested in bringing him in this year? They might as well suit up Garth Snow and Ziggy Pallfy as well.


Marshmont. Marshmont. Marshmont.


Mike Millbury once traded away Zdeno Chara for Alexei Yashin. Many Canadian people hate Mike Millbury, but that trade has nothing to do with it.
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Re: Moss

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:29 am

bignick33 wrote:
flyingelvii wrote:(see: Yashin, Alexei).


Did you hear that the Islanders may be interested in bringing him in this year? They might as well suit up Garth Snow and Ziggy Pallfy as well.

Yeah. Would be great PR as they're trying to get a stadium so they won't move to Kansas City or [insert large-ish Canadien city here]
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Re: Moss

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:48 am

bignick33 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
bignick33 wrote:
flyingelvii wrote:(see: Yashin, Alexei).


Did you hear that the Islanders may be interested in bringing him in this year? They might as well suit up Garth Snow and Ziggy Pallfy as well.


Marshmont. Marshmont. Marshmont.


Mike Millbury once traded away Zdeno Chara for Alexei Yashin. Many Canadian people hate Mike Millbury, but that trade has nothing to do with it.

Chara AND Spezza for Yashin. That and Heatley's Dale Earnhardt impersonation set up their Stanley Cup run.
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Re: Moss

Postby bignick33 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:59 am

Moss retired today.
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Re: Moss

Postby Endless Mike on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:05 pm

bignick33 wrote:Does anyone besides CAG seriously believe that the NFL cap is as strict a cap as the NHL's? Is that a commonly held fallacy?


I think he was trying to defend Braylon Edwards' honor and he got stuck in a logic box.
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Re: Moss

Postby cvilleagle on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:10 pm

TobaccoRoadEagle wrote:can someone help me understand if bc's "10-2 season" corresponds with the jets "14-2 season"

thanks in advance


The only team going 14-2 this year is the Eagles, and by 14-2 I mean 19-0. They already won, just like the Heat. Absolutely no way a terrific coach like Andy Reid screws this up.
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Re: Moss

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:34 pm

Did the Jets get a quarterback when I wasn't looking?
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Re: Moss

Postby eagle9903 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:58 pm

cvilleagle wrote:
TobaccoRoadEagle wrote:can someone help me understand if bc's "10-2 season" corresponds with the jets "14-2 season"

thanks in advance


The only team going 14-2 this year is the Eagles, and by 14-2 I mean 19-0. They already won, just like the Heat. Absolutely no way a terrific coach like Andy Reid screws this up.



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Re: Moss

Postby cvilleagle on Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:01 pm

twballgame9 wrote:Did the Jets get a quarterback when I wasn't looking?


Yes. His name is Greg McElroy.
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