Tuggle will start, Both will play...

[hansen]

The over/under for Shinskie snaps is 10.

The over/under for Shinskie series is 2.

i think he'll get more than 2 series. they may be late in the game though and irrelevant.

[HJS]

I know that the standard thought method is that two quarterbacks = zero, but I am sure that Spaz is letting both of them get their reps until one of them shows they are either better or worse than the other. The second one steps ahead he will get to keep it.

That happened this past weekend. It should be Tuggle time.

That said, I am okay with Shinskie getting an early series. So long as Spaz goes with Tuggle after he plays the way he did last week.

Maybe they want to see both in a real game against a real D1 team. But I'm starting to think "neither has separated themselves" translates to "Shinskie hasn't separated himself and we're going to keep him the opportunity to even though Tuggle has been better." I hope I'm over-thinking it.

I agree. It seems to me that everyone except the Globe and the coaching staff thinks Tuggle is better.

Not sure where I stand either. Northeastern and Kent State are not big tests. Let's see what happens. Hopefully they both look good and BC wins. But this game will be a good tell on the QBs.

You act as if Tuggle was the only one that played against those teams. Craneskie did too, and he didn't play as well, period. Is your suggestion that Tuggle is going to get worse, but Craneskie better, against better teams? If he is not looking off Kent State double coverage, I'd prefer not to even see what he will do against Clemson.

I also think it is bullshit. If you read Craneskie's comments, Tuggle is getting a great majority of the first team reps. That's a good sign that Tuggle is going to get most of the snaps.

And you act as if you yourself didn't post that Shinskie (or Craneskie as you have inappropriately slandered him) played better against Northeastern. Look... I am the one who said from the beginning that Shinskie would only be a back-up because you can't read defenses and get used to ACC speed after a 6 year hiatus. That said, I have been impressed with what I have seen from Shinskie in that he has sat tight in the pocket, has delivered the ball while taking a hit and has one hell of an arm. He shouldn't see the majority of the snaps yet because I think he holds onto the ball too long... probably due to his uncertainty within the offense and reading the field. Both of those should improve greatly over time.

On this Saturday, I believe Tuggle gives us the best chance to win. However, I would not at all be surprised if I feel opposite when we play UNC. As a result, you give Shinskie reps. The momentum argument is really meant for when you have Matty Ryan and are replacing him with Chris Crane. It really loses something when you have Chris Crane and are spelling him with Dom Davis.

To further West's point, to have such a definitive view of the position after watching BC play Northeastern and KSU is just like having a definitive view of the position after the Spring Game.

Finally, I'd just remind everyone that when Matt Ryan was young, he had more natural ability but was benched in favor of the guy who was more comfortable in the offense. Simply, I am not willing to write off Shinskie, in spite of me always thinking that Tuggle should be the starter.

[twballgame9]

I was busting balls about Shinskie's ability to recognize that he has more than one receiver in a pattern. Hence the Craneski. He is a much better QB than Crane.

I'm not sure that Shinskie played better than Tuggle against Northeastern. Tuggle only was allowed to throw 5 times. 3 were completions, including a long pass to Larmond and a beautiful touch pass to Harris. He had a very bad throw to Haden where he double clutched. Against KSU, Tuggle was much better, despite the lower completion percentage and the really bad first pass.

I have said it from the beginning, Shinskie has a stronger arm than Tuggle. But the difference is not that great. On the other hand, the difference between Tuggle's field presence and Shinskie's is huge. Yes, HJS, you predicted Shinskie would struggle in this area.

I have said from the beginning that if this was a tie going into Clemson, Tuggle wins because he can run, while Shinskie is a sitting duck statute in the pocket and has already been nailed three times for holding the ball too long against mediocre defensive lines. But to top it off, those of us that have seen the two live know that this was no tie. Shinskie has been a pleasant surprise with the arm, but Tuggle looks ready to do the other things.

I have been of the opinion that whoever wins is just holding the job for Rettig. Now, I feel good that we have a relatively strong starter with a ton of talent that only needs reps to get better, with a backup with a strong arm that would survive if we needed him.

And enough already with the "you can't evaluate the talent because the competition sucked." It's horseshit, and you know it. You can already see that both QBs are better than what we had last year, despite the fact that Crane and Davis played better competition.

[Brablc]

I have no problem with this, but I do hope that Spaz doesn't have some plan already set up for who plays what series (i.e. Tuggle 2 and Shinskie). If Tuggle plays well on the first few drives, I think he should continue running the offense.

Don't give Shinkskie reps for the sake of getting him reps.

[Eagledom]

On this Saturday, I believe Tuggle gives us the best chance to win. However, I would not at all be surprised...

fill in the blank.

[talon]

On this Saturday, I believe Tuggle gives us the best chance to win. However, I would not at all be surprised...

fill in the blank.

are you going to send me a PM in scout, or will you just fess up that you're a liar?

[xu9697]

I agree with an earlier post= if Tuggle doesn't struggle, no need for the Shin.

Unless Tuggle is out there clearly looking like the man, I'd like to see how Shinskie handles the 80,000 Clemson fans. Both QBs are about to face their biggest challenge not only based on the team, but also the environment.

[BCWest]

I know that the standard thought method is that two quarterbacks = zero, but I am sure that Spaz is letting both of them get their reps until one of them shows they are either better or worse than the other. The second one steps ahead he will get to keep it.

That happened this past weekend. It should be Tuggle time.

That said, I am okay with Shinskie getting an early series. So long as Spaz goes with Tuggle after he plays the way he did last week.

Maybe they want to see both in a real game against a real D1 team. But I'm starting to think "neither has separated themselves" translates to "Shinskie hasn't separated himself and we're going to keep him the opportunity to even though Tuggle has been better." I hope I'm over-thinking it.

I agree. It seems to me that everyone except the Globe and the coaching staff thinks Tuggle is better.

Not sure where I stand either. Northeastern and Kent State are not big tests. Let's see what happens. Hopefully they both look good and BC wins. But this game will be a good tell on the QBs.

You act as if Tuggle was the only one that played against those teams. Craneskie did too, and he didn't play as well, period. Is your suggestion that Tuggle is going to get worse, but Craneskie better, against better teams? If he is not looking off Kent State double coverage, I'd prefer not to even see what he will do against Clemson.

I also think it is bullshit. If you read Craneskie's comments, Tuggle is getting a great majority of the first team reps. That's a good sign that Tuggle is going to get most of the snaps.

I watched the games. No, I do not think, nor do I act like, Tuggle was the only one who played those games. The reality is whatever the coaches have seen in practice is probably as meaningful (if not more so) than what Tuggle and Shinkskie have done vs a glorified high school team and 3 win MAC program. Sure, game time is different than practice time. But that does not change the fact BC's 2nd team defense at practice has more speed and talent then both of the opponents to date combined. Next, Shinskie has had very few reps the past oh, say 5 years. Not in just in games, but in football. To say the least he is probably not in the flow. So will he improve more and be a better QB for this season? Is he making more progress at practice and is he doing so faster than Tuggle? In the new offense, which Tuggle has had less than a year to be around, is he picking it up faster than Shinskie? I don't know the answers to those questions. If you do, share them with us. If you don't care, great. If you want to say you think one guy or another is definitively better based on how they played vs two light weight teams in two blowouts, no problem. If the coaches are still playing Shinskie there is probably a reason. So, as I said before, I am going to see what happens vs a CLemson team that is pretty damn good and has a defense that is at the same level of talent as BCs. So for me it will be the first time I have seen the 2 QBs vs a real defense. A real pass rush. And in games where the outcome is in far greater doubt. For the coaches they have seen both QBs against BC's defense in practice and have a much better idea than I do of how good the two players are and what they think the two Qbs can be. Again, I hope both look good and BC wins. So yes, I am not sure where I stand on Shinskie or Tuggle. While Tuggle has looked better overall in the first two games, I do not share your greater certainty about who is the best QB for BC 2009. It very well may end up being Tuggle, but no I am not ready to say it should clearly be "Tuggle Time." Nor has he looked so great that I think they should pass completely on Shinskie at this point in the season.

[twballgame9]

Spaz was quoted as saying that last weeks game gave him "a lot of evidence to make a decision." You could tell in 30 minutes of the Northeastern game that both QBs were going to be better than Crane or Davis. Some obvious tells don't require the world's best defense to make a determination.

Moreover, my biggest fault with Shinskie is that he doesn't see the field or look off receivers. That is a trait that will improve with practice time, but I think it is only going to be magnified by playing a real team. That is the point - Shinskie (right now) has the worst habit to project against real teams - the one that caused all of Crane's INTs last season. I can think of no bad habit that would be magnified more by the addition of a faster and better defense than a lack of ability to see the field and check down.

I think the idea that easy games don't tell you anything is a terrible fallacy. You can't see who is a gamer in practice. Real athletes raise their games on Saturday afternoon. They may go hard in practice, but it just isn't the same.

Ultimately, I like Shinskie's arm a lot. He needs a year or two (as HJS has noted) to learn how to play QB again. Tuggle is much further down that road, even if his arm is not quite as good. You can tell these things when you play Kent State.

[Shredder]

I think this makes sense. Give both QB's, even if one isn't playing that much, some experience against a good conference team in a tough venue because as we've seen in the past, the starter at the beginning of the season isn't always the starter at the end. I'd also like to see more Tuggle for now but there was a point last year when some among us wanted to see more Davis. On the other hand, it's possible we have two capable quarterbacks.

I'm suprised you're so comfortable with this, seeing as how you lost the starting QB job twice.

That wound up being a blessing in disguise, freeing me to do other things. While I sat on the bench the rest of the season, the same couldn't be said of the field hockey team.

[Endless Mike]

I think this makes sense. Give both QB's, even if one isn't playing that much, some experience against a good conference team in a tough venue because as we've seen in the past, the starter at the beginning of the season isn't always the starter at the end. I'd also like to see more Tuggle for now but there was a point last year when some among us wanted to see more Davis. On the other hand, it's possible we have two capable quarterbacks.

I'm suprised you're so comfortable with this, seeing as how you lost the starting QB job twice.

That wound up being a blessing in disguise, freeing me to do other things. While I sat on the bench the rest of the season, the same couldn't be said of the field hockey team.

EXALT

[unblinkingeye]

Let's hope that Tuggle adapts to the speed of ACC football. There's a big difference between playing Northeastern/Kent State and Clemson.

[Endless Mike]

Let's hope that Tuggle adapts to the speed of ACC football. There's a big difference between playing Northeastern/Kent State and Clemson.

Wow, nothing gets by this guy.