QB Recruiting

[DrJackRyan]

I think we can all agree that our biggest problem this year is inexperience with starting QB.

Let's review the last few years of QB recruiting -

Class of 2005 (Would be redshirt Senior)

No QBs

Class of 2006 (Would be Senior or Redshirt Junior)

Ross Applegate - News was he would transfer to Alabama. It appears he never did transfer. Or if he did transfer it does not appear he ever suited up for BAMA.

Bill Flutie - WR for BC

Class of 2007 Would be Junior or redshirt Soph

Dom Davis - Left BC due to academics

Chris Johnson - I have no idea what happened to this guy. He was a three star QB. I just googled him and got nothing. Anyone remember what happened to him?

Class of 2008 Would be Soph or redshirt Freshman

Boek Is this his last year of eligibility? Hard to believe he never was really in the mix for QB. Wasn't he supposed to be the next Paul Pete?

Tuggle Had his shot early in the season but did not seem to make the most of it. Now transferring.

Bottom line: Lot of blame to spread around here. But neither TOB or Jags left us with a full shelf. The fact that Uncle Dave is starting is a direct result of poor QB recruiting over the past five years.

[ATLeagle]

I think QB is and was a problem but the blame game is lame. This is Spaz's team. Davis flunked out on his watch, he ran summer camp and jerked Tuggle around. The who deserves more blame with TOB or Jags leaves too many what ifs in the equation.

-- What if TOB stayed and Zach Frazier transfered to BC instead of UConn.
-- What if TOB stayed and Matt Simms decommits after Petrino leaves and signs with BC.
-- What if Jags wasn't fired and we signed Boyd.
-- What if Jags wasn't fired and we ran an offense to Tuggle's strengths

I could go on, at the end of the day, good or bad this is Spaz's team. He was here for all of the QB issues and knew what he was getting into.

[Endless Mike]

Last I heard, Applegate was transferring to BAMA so he could be close to his girlfriend, and he was going to be a regular student and not play a down of football. I also heard that there was no hope of him ever taking a snap for BC, let alone BAMA.

[HJS]

I think QB is and was a problem but the blame game is lame. This is Spaz's team. Davis flunked out on his watch, he ran summer camp and jerked Tuggle around. The who deserves more blame with TOB or Jags leaves too many what ifs in the equation.

-- What if TOB stayed and Zach Frazier transfered to BC instead of UConn.
-- What if TOB stayed and Matt Simms decommits after Petrino leaves and signs with BC.
-- What if Jags wasn't fired and we signed Boyd.
-- What if Jags wasn't fired and we ran an offense to Tuggle's strengths

I could go on, at the end of the day, good or bad this is Spaz's team. He was here for all of the QB issues and knew what he was getting into.

Agreed. All the old merrymen posters here (bclou, eagle25, h2o) who hated Jags, never gave him the slightest pass for not being left with a single player in the backfield for his 2nd season. And yet... with no QB and true frosh RBs... Jags never bitched and moaned and coached that team to the ACCCG. A game which we would've probably won if the successful rehabilitation project they did on Crane wasn't cut short by a season-ending injury. Even then, he STILL won two games with the woefully unprepared Dom Davis.

BTW, I love how the same Klansmen who hate Jags take such pleasure in beating on DD. First, Davis flunked out 100% during Spaz's watch. Second, Davis was the freaking choice of Spaz to be the starter this year. Once he lost him, they went flailing about and luckily landed Shinskie. If Dom Davis wasn't such a Gears of War superstar, Shinskie is warming the bench for Savage at Rutgers.

[MrAwesome]

UGH, more "Jags"?? Nobody had a problem with "Jags" the football coach until he decided it was parlay time and made a pathetic run at the NY Jets job. All this after telling anyone who would listen how much he loved it here. Why do so many of you stick up for this guy?? Are you BC fans or not?? Isnt it obvious by now that he is mentally unstable?

[EagleNYC]

Agreed. All the old merrymen posters here (bclou, eagle25, h2o) who hated Jags, never gave him the slightest pass for not being left with a single player in the backfield for his 2nd season. And yet... with no QB and true frosh RBs... Jags never bitched and moaned and coached that team to the ACCCG. A game which we would've probably won if the successful rehabilitation project they did on Crane wasn't cut short by a season-ending injury. Even then, he STILL won two games with the woefully unprepared Dom Davis.

I take issue only with one aspect: In (often rightfully, mind you) bashing Spaz for not being Jags, people overlook that the "he got to the ACC title game w/Crane/Cesspool!!1!1!1!" arugument greatly distorts how BC got there: the defense was devastating. Herzy was the best offensive player for BC last November; Raji and Brace were handing the offense great field position; interceptions were plentiful in ACC contests. Davis directly gave away 14 points against Wake and the defense didn't miss a beat. And Spaz deserves credit for that- more credit than many are willing to give him these days. He'll never be the head coach that Jags was for BC, but his defense last year was the singular reason we played for the title.

[HJS]

I take issue only with one aspect: In (often rightfully, mind you) bashing Spaz for not being Jags, people overlook that the "he got to the ACC title game w/Crane/Cesspool!!1!1!1!" arugument greatly distorts how BC got there: the defense was devastating. Herzy was the best offensive player for BC last November; Raji and Brace were handing the offense great field position; interceptions were plentiful in ACC contests. Davis directly gave away 14 points against Wake and the defense didn't miss a beat. And Spaz deserves credit for that- more credit than many are willing to give him these days. He'll never be the head coach that Jags was for BC, but his defense last year was the singular reason we played for the title.

Ron Vanderlinden was a hell of a defensive coordinator too. But, as a head coach... not so much. Same could be said about Norv Turner, Dave Wannestedt and Dan Henning. A good coordinator does not a head coach make.

[Eagledom]

I take issue only with one aspect: In (often rightfully, mind you) bashing Spaz for not being Jags, people overlook that the "he got to the ACC title game w/Crane/Cesspool!!1!1!1!" arugument greatly distorts how BC got there: the defense was devastating. Herzy was the best offensive player for BC last November; Raji and Brace were handing the offense great field position; interceptions were plentiful in ACC contests. Davis directly gave away 14 points against Wake and the defense didn't miss a beat. And Spaz deserves credit for that- more credit than many are willing to give him these days. He'll never be the head coach that Jags was for BC, but his defense last year was the singular reason we played for the title.

Ron Vanderlinden was a hell of a defensive coordinator too. But, as a head coach... not so much. Same could be said about Norv Turner, Dave Wannestedt and Dan Henning. A good coordinator does not a head coach make.

Jags and Logan had nothing to do with BC making the ACC championship game last year.

[Endless Mike]

UGH, more "Jags"?? Nobody had a problem with "Jags" the football coach until he decided it was parlay time and made a pathetic run at the NY Jets job. All this after telling anyone who would listen how much he loved it here. Why do so many of you stick up for this guy?? Are you BC fans or not?? Isnt it obvious by now that he is mentally unstable?

Why are so many cowardly, lazy, middle-management types so offended by a guy who did a good job in short amount of time and entertained the idea of moving up to a better job?

Jags talking to an NFL team is not embarrassing to BC. Jags getting fired for talking to an NFL team in a posturing move by the AD is embarrassing for BC.

[EagleNYC]

I take issue only with one aspect: In (often rightfully, mind you) bashing Spaz for not being Jags, people overlook that the "he got to the ACC title game w/Crane/Cesspool!!1!1!1!" arugument greatly distorts how BC got there: the defense was devastating. Herzy was the best offensive player for BC last November; Raji and Brace were handing the offense great field position; interceptions were plentiful in ACC contests. Davis directly gave away 14 points against Wake and the defense didn't miss a beat. And Spaz deserves credit for that- more credit than many are willing to give him these days. He'll never be the head coach that Jags was for BC, but his defense last year was the singular reason we played for the title.

Ron Vanderlinden was a hell of a defensive coordinator too. But, as a head coach... not so much. Same could be said about Norv Turner, Dave Wannestedt and Dan Henning. A good coordinator does not a head coach make.

While harping on my first point, you completely ignored the 2nd point, which Eagledom over-stated bluntly. Wouldn't you concede that 50% of BCS head coaches could have made the ACCCG with last year's defense? I won't go so far as to say Jags and Logan did "nothing-" Jags' decisions to run the fake FG v. UMD and on-side kick v. FSU last year being excellent examples of the daring that is missing from this year's playcalling. Crane made strides during the season and was running the read option will tremendous success at the end. But there were games when the offense was giving away more points that it was scoring. I was attempting to get a concession that Spaz played a HUGE part in the trip to the ACCCG last year, not proclaim that it means he is a great head coach.

[ATLeagle]

If Jags doesn't get credit for putting four offensive linemen on all ACC squads then who does? Three of those guys (Claiborne, Tennant and Ramsey) were buried on the depth chart when he first got to campus. That offensive line also put together one of the most dominant performances you'll see as a group against Florida State in Tallahassee. You could give Bick JR credit but he was run off by our AD too.

[HJS]

I take issue only with one aspect: In (often rightfully, mind you) bashing Spaz for not being Jags, people overlook that the "he got to the ACC title game w/Crane/Cesspool!!1!1!1!" arugument greatly distorts how BC got there: the defense was devastating. Herzy was the best offensive player for BC last November; Raji and Brace were handing the offense great field position; interceptions were plentiful in ACC contests. Davis directly gave away 14 points against Wake and the defense didn't miss a beat. And Spaz deserves credit for that- more credit than many are willing to give him these days. He'll never be the head coach that Jags was for BC, but his defense last year was the singular reason we played for the title.

Ron Vanderlinden was a hell of a defensive coordinator too. But, as a head coach... not so much. Same could be said about Norv Turner, Dave Wannestedt and Dan Henning. A good coordinator does not a head coach make.

While harping on my first point, you completely ignored the 2nd point, which Eagledom over-stated bluntly. Wouldn't you concede that 50% of BCS head coaches could have made the ACCCG with last year's defense? I won't go so far as to say Jags and Logan did "nothing-" Jags' decisions to run the fake FG v. UMD and on-side kick v. FSU last year being excellent examples of the daring that is missing from this year's playcalling. Crane made strides during the season and was running the read option will tremendous success at the end. But there were games when the offense was giving away more points that it was scoring. I was attempting to get a concession that Spaz played a HUGE part in the trip to the ACCCG last year, not proclaim that it means he is a great head coach.

I agree that Spaz did one hell of a job BOTH of Jags' season. Those Defenses were great. But, Jags and Logan did plenty as well. This year's D is pretty freaking good. Based on their performance, we should've beaten Clemson, ND and UNC. Problem is that we don't have Jags and Logan any more. And, our offense this year simply can't do enough to win games against teams that are even slightly competitive. If Logan is the OC this year, there is a strong possibility that we are 10-1 right now and a probability that we are at least 9-2 and a damn near certainty that we are 8-3.

[GreenvilleEagle]

If Jags doesn't get credit for putting four offensive linemen on all ACC squads then who does? Three of those guys (Claiborne, Tennant and Ramsey) were buried on the depth chart when he first got to campus. That offensive line also put together one of the most dominant performances you'll see as a group against Florida State in Tallahassee. You could give Bick JR credit but he was run off by our AD too.

You ever see Bick coming back to BC? Or Carmichael, Jr considering BC as a HC opportunity? In both cases I imagine GDF would no longer be the AD.

[BCFAN94]

If Jags doesn't get credit for putting four offensive linemen on all ACC squads then who does? Three of those guys (Claiborne, Tennant and Ramsey) were buried on the depth chart when he first got to campus. That offensive line also put together one of the most dominant performances you'll see as a group against Florida State in Tallahassee. You could give Bick JR credit but he was run off by our AD too.

Weren't they freshman/RSF when/before Jags got here?

[BCMurt09]

They were all my class ('09). Even with redshriting in 2007 when Jags got here they would have been academic juniors and athletic (literally and figuratively) sophomores.

[ATLeagle]

They were all my class ('09). Even with redshriting in 2007 when Jags got here they would have been academic juniors and athletic (literally and figuratively) sophomores.

When Jags showed up, Pat Sheridan, Tom Anevski and Ty Hall were all past starters and pencilled in to start in 2007. Jags and Bick didn't play the seniority card and sat all three (Anevski and Hall split time after Poles blew out his Achilles).

Tennant spent portions of his redshirt year as a TE. He was considered too small for TOB. He has now started 39 straight games for us.

Claiborne was on the defensive side of the ball and near 400 pounds. Go watch the highlight of him celebrating the 2006 OT win over Clemson. The kid was obese. Loco deserves a lot of credit for getting him in football shape.

Ramsey was an afterthought prior to Jags/Bick. He was all conference as a senior.

[MrAwesome]

So I suppose the people in Tampa Bay are lazy middle-management types who were somehow offended by "Jags" as well?? By that logic you couldnt really blame that shitbag O'Brien either. All he wanted to do was improve himself, right?? If Jags was so great how did BC manage to lose to FSU and Maryland in '07?? How did they lose 5 games with him at the helm last year?? I imagine what will follow is the "The QB cupboard was bare, Crane got hurt" answers. The most accurate thing to say is that a lot of people will allow excuses for Jags, like injuries and bad recruiting by the previous staff, that they will not allow for Spaziani.

[ATLeagle]

So I suppose the people in Tampa Bay are lazy middle-management types who were somehow offended by "Jags" as well?? By that logic you couldnt really blame that shitbag O'Brien either. All he wanted to do was improve himself, right?? If Jags was so great how did BC manage to lose to FSU and Maryland in '07?? How did they lose 5 games with him at the helm last year?? I imagine what will follow is the "The QB cupboard was bare, Crane got hurt" answers. The most accurate thing to say is that a lot of people will allow excuses for Jags, like injuries and bad recruiting by the previous staff, that they will not allow for Spaziani.

Every coach loses games. Jags clearly wasn't perfect. I speak only for myself, but the reason I like and still like him is that he didn't make a bunch of excuses or play to keep it close. Mr Awesome, what did you think when Spaz was kicking FGs down 21?

[HJS]

Every coach loses games. Jags clearly wasn't perfect. I speak only for myself, but the reason I like and still like him is that he didn't make a bunch of excuses or play to keep it close. Mr Awesome, what did you think when Spaz was kicking FGs down 21?

I know I was thinking "He is only doing this so he isn't the first head coach in BC history to be shutout in Alumni Stadium."

[twballgame9]

So I suppose the people in Tampa Bay are lazy middle-management types who were somehow offended by "Jags" as well?? By that logic you couldnt really blame that shitbag O'Brien either. All he wanted to do was improve himself, right?? If Jags was so great how did BC manage to lose to FSU and Maryland in '07?? How did they lose 5 games with him at the helm last year?? I imagine what will follow is the "The QB cupboard was bare, Crane got hurt" answers. The most accurate thing to say is that a lot of people will allow excuses for Jags, like injuries and bad recruiting by the previous staff, that they will not allow for Spaziani.

Every coach loses games. Jags clearly wasn't perfect. I speak only for myself, but the reason I like and still like him is that he didn't make a bunch of excuses or play to keep it close. Mr Awesome, what did you think when Spaz was kicking FGs down 21?

Amen. What he said.

[Endless Mike]

So I suppose the people in Tampa Bay are lazy middle-management types who were somehow offended by "Jags" as well?? By that logic you couldnt really blame that shitbag O'Brien either. All he wanted to do was improve himself, right?? If Jags was so great how did BC manage to lose to FSU and Maryland in '07?? How did they lose 5 games with him at the helm last year?? I imagine what will follow is the "The QB cupboard was bare, Crane got hurt" answers. The most accurate thing to say is that a lot of people will allow excuses for Jags, like injuries and bad recruiting by the previous staff, that they will not allow for Spaziani.

I don't recall hearing anything about Jags being fired from TB for looking for another job. So that has nothing to do with this. His reason for being fired wouldn't have come into play at BC since he wasn't calling plays as the head coach.

My problem with TOB is not that he was shopping his resume around. My problem with TOB is that he was a terrible coach who was shopping his resume around while talking shit about BC every chance that he got and making excuses for his mediocre record. In other words, he wanted to move up in the world but he was too much of a lazy middle-management type to actually do something to deserve that. That's why it took so damn long for another school to actually hire him, and now their fans wish they hadn't.

[31southst]

So I suppose the people in Tampa Bay are lazy middle-management types who were somehow offended by "Jags" as well?? By that logic you couldnt really blame that shitbag O'Brien either. All he wanted to do was improve himself, right?? If Jags was so great how did BC manage to lose to FSU and Maryland in '07?? How did they lose 5 games with him at the helm last year?? I imagine what will follow is the "The QB cupboard was bare, Crane got hurt" answers. The most accurate thing to say is that a lot of people will allow excuses for Jags, like injuries and bad recruiting by the previous staff, that they will not allow for Spaziani.

Every coach loses games. Jags clearly wasn't perfect. I speak only for myself, but the reason I like and still like him is that he didn't make a bunch of excuses or play to keep it close. Mr Awesome, what did you think when Spaz was kicking FGs down 21?

I don't think kicking a field goal on 4th and 3 from the 10 in the FIRST QUARTER is a terrible call. Some of the play calling to get there, yes, but not the field goal itself.

If you want to talk about decisions that aren't playing to win, remember the 2007 Maryland game when Jags punted in the 4th quarter when we were losing. Granted it was 4th and a mile, but I am just pointing out you can find this sort of flaw with every coach.

[MrAwesome]

Yea, they kicked the fg in the 1st quarter. I dont have a problem with that. Especially the way the QB was playing at that point. The 2nd fg I didnt like so much, but it isnt what lost the game.

[ATLeagle]

If Jags was so great how did BC manage to lose to FSU and Maryland in '07??

Since we are talking Maryland '07 and throwing people under the bus let's look at the game, what happened after and how that got us where we are today.

Mr. Loyalty's defense got killed that night. 42 points and 475 yards. Our offense scored 35. Jags and Spaz were not speaking at the time and Jags had told him if he was going to be a grouch, Jags would help him find another job after the season. Gene had to play peacemaker. We win at Clemson the next week and everyone is happy (for a moment or two).

But the fact that Spaz and Jags were having problems in 2007, yet Spaz stayed because of his relationship with Gene speaks to a bigger problem. Our head coach should have final say in football matters. That is not always the case at BC. I think Spaz is learning that the hard way now. But what is he going to do?

[HJS]

If Jags was so great how did BC manage to lose to FSU and Maryland in '07??

Since we are talking Maryland '07 and throwing people under the bus let's look at the game, what happened after and how that got us where we are today.

Mr. Loyalty's defense got killed that night. 42 points and 475 yards. Our offense scored 35. Jags and Spaz were not speaking at the time and Jags had told him if he was going to be a grouch, Jags would help him find another job after the season. Gene had to play peacemaker. We win at Clemson the next week and everyone is happy (for a moment or two).

But the fact that Spaz and Jags were having problems in 2007, yet Spaz stayed because of his relationship with Gene speaks to a bigger problem. Our head coach should have final say in football matters. That is not always the case at BC. I think Spaz is learning that the hard way now. But what is he going to do?

When is it EVER the case at BC that our head coach has final say in football matters???

[Bryn Mawr Eagle]

But what is he going to do?

Retiring after next season would be nice.

[MrAwesome]

Yes, Maryland scored 42 in that game. But whose fault were Matt's interceptions that night??? Whose fault was the pick 6 he threw against FSU?? And if we are going to assign blame to Spaz for that Maryland loss, then are we going to credit him with last year's excellent defense??

[Endless Mike]

If Jags was so great how did BC manage to lose to FSU and Maryland in '07??

Since we are talking Maryland '07 and throwing people under the bus let's look at the game, what happened after and how that got us where we are today.

Mr. Loyalty's defense got killed that night. 42 points and 475 yards. Our offense scored 35. Jags and Spaz were not speaking at the time and Jags had told him if he was going to be a grouch, Jags would help him find another job after the season. Gene had to play peacemaker. We win at Clemson the next week and everyone is happy (for a moment or two).

But the fact that Spaz and Jags were having problems in 2007, yet Spaz stayed because of his relationship with Gene speaks to a bigger problem. Our head coach should have final say in football matters. That is not always the case at BC. I think Spaz is learning that the hard way now. But what is he going to do?

What caused the friction between Jags and ?

[BCFAN94]

If Jags was so great how did BC manage to lose to FSU and Maryland in '07??

Since we are talking Maryland '07 and throwing people under the bus let's look at the game, what happened after and how that got us where we are today.

Mr. Loyalty's defense got killed that night. 42 points and 475 yards. Our offense scored 35. Jags and Spaz were not speaking at the time and Jags had told him if he was going to be a grouch, Jags would help him find another job after the season. Gene had to play peacemaker. We win at Clemson the next week and everyone is happy (for a moment or two).

But the fact that Spaz and Jags were having problems in 2007, yet Spaz stayed because of his relationship with Gene speaks to a bigger problem. Our head coach should have final say in football matters. That is not always the case at BC. I think Spaz is learning that the hard way now. But what is he going to do?

I don't think the interference from above is unique to BC and Gene D. It happens many places in football and real life. Most times if you have a boss, you are going to have to take his/her input now and then. Some people can handle it and can manage their boss, others find it a challange.

edit: The AD has a stake in the football program and I think he thought, not necessiarly incorrectly, that the team needed some stability to hold on to some of the recruits and assure current players. Spaz was his guy, not only because he had the loyalty of his players but because he also was the only guy that was willing to stay.

Jags was an unknown quantity, Gene probably thought he had to cover all his bases.

[HJS]

Yes, Maryland scored 42 in that game. But whose fault were Matt's interceptions that night??? Whose fault was the pick 6 he threw against FSU?? And if we are going to assign blame to Spaz for that Maryland loss, then are we going to credit him with last year's excellent defense??

SenorSucky just threw Matty Ice under the bus in order to save Spazerelli. Now I have seen everything.