Official Gameday Thread - BC at Syracuse - 10/30/2021

[Dick Rosenthal]

Cignetti’s play calling and/or offensive schemes are not the issue. Not is it an issue that he could not coach up a low Patriot League talent QB to be able to play merely adequate ACC football. If you want to hold him responsible for something, it would be a failure to simplify the playbook or create a very small playbook for his freshman QB—plays the kid could execute with some modicum of success as opposed to the utter failure yesterday. It would not have made much of a difference yesterday or against Louisville, because a semi-competent DC would figure out the abbreviated scheme fairly quickly, but it would have worked against Clemson, where all we needed from our QB was that he have better physical tools than the starting QB at Bucknell. So hold that against him, it’s still not a firing offense.

The bigger indictment of Cignetti was his failure to make sure they had a semi-competent back up. And not because Jurkovec is “fragile” or whatever nonsense agenda is making the rounds. Jurkovec got pounded last year behind a shitastic offensive line because he had to play exposed to give us a chance to win in most of the games we played last year. There are almost no QBs you could name who would have ended last season upright playing the way Phil had to play and with the Oline we had. None. As for this year, smack your hand into a helmet and bad things are going to happen. A bad break, nothing more, nothing less. But even if the myth of Jurkovec’s fragility is the typical agenda bullshit that makes up 99% of the posts on this board, football is still a violent game that requires depth—especially at the QB position. And sure, you weren’t going to keep AB and you weren’t going to poach someone off the two deep at any P5 schools, but you didn’t need that much of an upgrade. You just needed someone better than a Bucknell-level athlete. There are a lot of kids like that buried on baby rapist rosters so far down that they aren’t even seeing the field when it’s Sunbelt, MAC or C-USA weekends for the SEC, Big 10 or Big 12. Watching Arizona last night against USC—Arizona, which has sadly devolved into a team so hopelessly terrible that even BC can smirk at their current condition—is now playing the RS Freshman who started the season 3rd on the depth chart. He is better in every way than any of our QB options. A far superior arm and far more mobile than Moorehead or Grosel. So if what is literally the worst P5 program in the country, one that was demolished and had salt dumped on top of it by Kevin Summlin and has been left to the tender mercies of Judd Fisch, if such a clowntastic program can muster a far superior QB from the bowels of its scout team than what we have, we’ll, that’s a Yuuuuuuge miss by Cignetti and Hafley. And that is what you kill them for—the complete failure to manage the roster.

[HJS]

I listened to the 4th Quarter via XM who was broadcasting the Cuse radio feed. When we had the turnover deep in their territory that set up the failed 4th down, the announcers were talking about how Morehead had the look of a big time prospect. That he gave the team a spark and it would be interesting to see him develop over the rest of the season. “This feels like they may be starting a new era.” And, then in utter shock they announced that Grosel was running onto the field. The color guy (somewhat exacerbated) goes “I don’t know what they are doing.” On the second down incompletion, the color guy goes “Grosel literally threw the ball to the only receiver Syracuse was covering.” He then went on to list how wide open each other player was (including Flowers).

Again. This is the Syracuse broadcast just ripping on how bad Grosel is. The TV commentators weren’t much different. They routinely talked about how Grosel can’t hit wide open receivers beyond 10 yards.

[HJS]

Cignetti’s play calling and/or offensive schemes are not the issue. Not is it an issue that he could not coach up a low Patriot League talent QB to be able to play merely adequate ACC football. If you want to hold him responsible for something, it would be a failure to simplify the playbook or create a very small playbook for his freshman QB—plays the kid could execute with some modicum of success as opposed to the utter failure yesterday. It would not have made much of a difference yesterday or against Louisville, because a semi-competent DC would figure out the abbreviated scheme fairly quickly, but it would have worked against Clemson, where all we needed from our QB was that he have better physical tools than the starting QB at Bucknell. So hold that against him, it’s still not a firing offense.

Agreed. The difference between this season and the 2015 Fadule Year was that we currently do not have an NFL talent capable of running a spread offense (and we aren’t months removed from that very same offense with Tyler Murphy).

The bigger indictment of Cignetti was his failure to make sure they had a semi-competent back up.

Ridiculous. Tell me which Davey O’Brien finalist was realistically leaving their playoff team to transfer to BC so that they could battle Grosel to be a second or third stringer?

There are almost no QBs you could name who would have ended last season upright playing the way Phil had to play and with the Oline we had. None.

That included Mr. Glass who wasn’t healthy the majority of the year and missed games. There is a reason why UVA happened.

As for this year, smack your hand into a helmet and bad things are going to happen. A bad break, nothing more, nothing less.

Is that what happened? I thought the play in question was a handoff. I heard that he tripped and broke his hand bracing his fall.

So if what is literally the worst P5 program in the country, one that was demolished and had salt dumped on top of it by Kevin Summlin and has been left to the tender mercies of Judd Fisch, if such a clowntastic program can muster a far superior QB from the bowels of its scout team than what we have, we’ll, that’s a Yuuuuuuge miss by Cignetti and Hafley. And that is what you kill them for—the complete failure to manage the roster.

I wonder if they ran off Sam Johnson, Matt Valecce, Matt MacDonald and didn’t recruit Anthony Brown out of the portal. I understand wanting extra scholarships to bring in your guys. But, I wonder if the empty cupboard is of their own making. That said, outside of AB leading Oregon to the playoffs, none of the aforementioned have proven capable.

[Logitano]

I listened to the 4th Quarter via XM who was broadcasting the Cuse radio feed. When we had the turnover deep in their territory that set up the failed 4th down, the announcers were talking about how Morehead had the look of a big time prospect. That he gave the team a spark and it would be interesting to see him develop over the rest of the season. “This feels like they may be starting a new era.” And, then in utter shock they announced that Grosel was running onto the field. The color guy (somewhat exacerbated) goes “I don’t know what they are doing.” On the second down incompletion, the color guy goes “Grosel literally threw the ball to the only receiver Syracuse was covering.” He then went on to list how wide open each other player was (including Flowers).

Again. This is the Syracuse broadcast just ripping on how bad Grosel is. The TV commentators weren’t much different. They routinely talked about how Grosel can’t hit wide open receivers beyond 10 yards.

That was a shockingly accurate account (other than it was not a TO, it was very nice punt return).

It says a lot that your best offensive weapon was wide open from go and Grosel never even looked at him and threw into triple coverage.

We were never winning the game but I think we should have gone two qb sneaks from inside the 1.

[2001Eagle]

Averaging 10 points a game in conference play. OC has to own that.

[TontoKowalski]

Bannon has a popular phrase: "Elections have consequences, and stolen elections have catastrophic consequences."

Perhaps the same could be said for coaching searches (substituting "botched" for "stolen")?

It interests me that if someone kicks nospace in the balls, they’ll also hit you in the mouth.

Innocent Bystander is Steve Bannon?

Did you just admit to sucking Steve Bannon’s dick?

...and Amazon just sold out of rubber Steve bannon masks.

[OCs_Inner_Eagle]

Cignetti’s play calling and/or offensive schemes are not the issue. Not is it an issue that he could not coach up a low Patriot League talent QB to be able to play merely adequate ACC football. If you want to hold him responsible for something, it would be a failure to simplify the playbook or create a very small playbook for his freshman QB—plays the kid could execute with some modicum of success as opposed to the utter failure yesterday. It would not have made much of a difference yesterday or against Louisville, because a semi-competent DC would figure out the abbreviated scheme fairly quickly, but it would have worked against Clemson, where all we needed from our QB was that he have better physical tools than the starting QB at Bucknell. So hold that against him, it’s still not a firing offense.

Agreed. The difference between this season and the 2015 Fadule Year was that we currently do not have an NFL talent capable of running a spread offense (and we aren’t months removed from that very same offense with Tyler Murphy).

The bigger indictment of Cignetti was his failure to make sure they had a semi-competent back up.

Ridiculous. Tell me which Davey O’Brien finalist was realistically leaving their playoff team to transfer to BC so that they could battle Grosel to be a second or third stringer?

There are almost no QBs you could name who would have ended last season upright playing the way Phil had to play and with the Oline we had. None.

That included Mr. Glass who wasn’t healthy the majority of the year and missed games. There is a reason why UVA happened.

As for this year, smack your hand into a helmet and bad things are going to happen. A bad break, nothing more, nothing less.

Is that what happened? I thought the play in question was a handoff. I heard that he tripped and broke his hand bracing his fall.

So if what is literally the worst P5 program in the country, one that was demolished and had salt dumped on top of it by Kevin Summlin and has been left to the tender mercies of Judd Fisch, if such a clowntastic program can muster a far superior QB from the bowels of its scout team than what we have, we’ll, that’s a Yuuuuuuge miss by Cignetti and Hafley. And that is what you kill them for—the complete failure to manage the roster.

I wonder if they ran off Sam Johnson, Matt Valecce, Matt MacDonald and didn’t recruit Anthony Brown out of the portal. I understand wanting extra scholarships to bring in your guys. But, I wonder if the empty cupboard is of their own making. That said, outside of AB leading Oregon to the playoffs, none of the aforementioned have proven capable.

I mostly agree with you guys on what's happened to this team, though I lean towards Dick in thinking Jurkovec is a victim of the way we had to play and that we could have brought in a decent backup from another FBS school buried on their depth chart. Or perhaps a JUCO player (PP worked out well). As for adjusting the scheme, it seems like they want to show recruits the possibilities in their NFL offense. For QBs prospects in particular they can see all the shots Grosel missed and figure they'd clean up with those opportunities.

The offensive line has to be deemed an utter failure. I had hoped maybe a full off-season conditioning and another year in the scheme would iron things out. That has to be on Appelbaum. He's gets PR as being a quality recruiter, but for O-Line that has to be secondary to coaching. I don't see how they can keep him. Only some of the issues result from being one-dimensional with Grosel at QB, and yes there should be some more chipping with a TE. But Appelbaum still bears much responsibility. I'd love to know what Kendall and Trapilo elders think about how their boys are developing. Hafley might want to listen carefully if they speak up, beyond figuring they're just Dads.

He also probably would be well-served in considering the shock others felt at bringing Grosel back in when they got the ball deep in Syracuse territory. I do think Hafley has the capacity to step back and learn from this year, and I don't think even losing the rest of the way is fatal so long as they go with Morehead. They can explain away this particular season with injuries at key positions, and show "proof of concept" for recruits to figure they'll be the difference-makers. But he's going to have to separate friendship from business and let certain staff members move on--especially if he wants the better players and coaches to maintain faith.

[HJS]

I mostly agree with you guys on what's happened to this team, though I lean towards Dick in thinking Jurkovec is a victim of the way we had to play and that we could have brought in a decent backup from another FBS school buried on their depth chart. Or perhaps a JUCO player (PP worked out well). As for adjusting the scheme, it seems like they want to show recruits the possibilities in their NFL offense. For QBs prospects in particular they can see all the shots Grosel missed and figure they'd clean up with those opportunities.

The offensive line has to be deemed an utter failure. I had hoped maybe a full off-season conditioning and another year in the scheme would iron things out. That has to be on Appelbaum. He's gets PR as being a quality recruiter, but for O-Line that has to be secondary to coaching. I don't see how they can keep him. Only some of the issues result from being one-dimensional with Grosel at QB, and yes there should be some more chipping with a TE. But Appelbaum still bears much responsibility. I'd love to know what Kendall and Trapilo elders think about how their boys are developing. Hafley might want to listen carefully if they speak up, beyond figuring they're just Dads.

He also probably would be well-served in considering the shock others felt at bringing Grosel back in when they got the ball deep in Syracuse territory. I do think Hafley has the capacity to step back and learn from this year, and I don't think even losing the rest of the way is fatal so long as they go with Morehead. They can explain away this particular season with injuries at key positions, and show "proof of concept" for recruits to figure they'll be the difference-makers. But he's going to have to separate friendship from business and let certain staff members move on--especially if he wants the better players and coaches to maintain faith.

In defense of Hafley... here are things that make him (appear to be) different than Addaziani:

Hafley has never bristled at others for pointing out mistakes. He has routinely talked about faults he has made and the assistants. He has never called out players without also saying that the scheme could be changed to make it easier for them to perform. His public comments are very similar to those Jags would make. Very little sugar coating... pretty straight-forward... not combative or aggressive.

I think it is also fair to say that what we are seeing from Grosel is a regression. It wasn't crazy to believe that a player who is in Year 6, with 14 games under his belt, fresh off a 500+ yard performance was capable of managing the offense. You can see Morehead's potential... but equally see how he has some ways to go. You can't say there wasn't a plan... an all-conference player followed by a seasoned ACC starter followed by a developmental prospect. It really is a situation where (a) Glass broke too soon and (b) Grosel has been nonfunctional. In the future, he will need to make sure he has 2-capable back-ups to go along with his development-for-the-future-types. That means he needs to take in a transfer even though Jurk is still on the roster (some claim this to be an impossibility).

Applebaum is the area that Hafley is most vulnerable for critique. He was the least impressive hire of all the assistants. When the OL was shockingly bad last year, it should have been a layup to move on from him. Instead, Hafley blamed injuries on the reshuffling and references passing on NFL opportunities. OL more than any position is about teaching and execution. You do not need a salesman for that gig. Hafley should reach out to Columbo and rehab his reputation destroyed by Judge (and Mara for letting it happen).

[innocentbystander]

I mostly agree with you guys on what's happened to this team, though I lean towards Dick in thinking Jurkovec is a victim of the way we had to play and that we could have brought in a decent backup from another FBS school buried on their depth chart. Or perhaps a JUCO player (PP worked out well). As for adjusting the scheme, it seems like they want to show recruits the possibilities in their NFL offense. For QBs prospects in particular they can see all the shots Grosel missed and figure they'd clean up with those opportunities.

The offensive line has to be deemed an utter failure. I had hoped maybe a full off-season conditioning and another year in the scheme would iron things out. That has to be on Appelbaum. He's gets PR as being a quality recruiter, but for O-Line that has to be secondary to coaching. I don't see how they can keep him. Only some of the issues result from being one-dimensional with Grosel at QB, and yes there should be some more chipping with a TE. But Appelbaum still bears much responsibility. I'd love to know what Kendall and Trapilo elders think about how their boys are developing. Hafley might want to listen carefully if they speak up, beyond figuring they're just Dads.

He also probably would be well-served in considering the shock others felt at bringing Grosel back in when they got the ball deep in Syracuse territory. I do think Hafley has the capacity to step back and learn from this year, and I don't think even losing the rest of the way is fatal so long as they go with Morehead. They can explain away this particular season with injuries at key positions, and show "proof of concept" for recruits to figure they'll be the difference-makers. But he's going to have to separate friendship from business and let certain staff members move on--especially if he wants the better players and coaches to maintain faith.

In defense of Hafley... here are things that make him (appear to be) different than Addaziani:

Hafley has never bristled at others for pointing out mistakes. He has routinely talked about faults he has made and the assistants. He has never called out players without also saying that the scheme could be changed to make it easier for them to perform. His public comments are very similar to those Jags would make. Very little sugar coating... pretty straight-forward... not combative or aggressive.

I think it is also fair to say that what we are seeing from Grosel is a regression. It wasn't crazy to believe that a player who is in Year 6, with 14 games under his belt, fresh off a 500+ yard performance was capable of managing the offense. You can see Morehead's potential... but equally see how he has some ways to go. You can't say there wasn't a plan... an all-conference player followed by a seasoned ACC starter followed by a developmental prospect. It really is a situation where (a) Glass broke too soon and (b) Grosel has been nonfunctional. In the future, he will need to make sure he has 2-capable back-ups to go along with his development-for-the-future-types. That means he needs to take in a transfer even though Jurk is still on the roster (some claim this to be an impossibility).

Applebaum is the area that Hafley is most vulnerable for critique. He was the least impressive hire of all the assistants. When the OL was shockingly bad last year, it should have been a layup to move on from him. Instead, Hafley blamed injuries on the reshuffling and references passing on NFL opportunities. OL more than any position is about teaching and execution. You do not need a salesman for that gig. Hafley should reach out to Columbo and rehab his reputation destroyed by Judge (and Mara for letting it happen).

I am growing a little tired of the

we need to do better at this (this = insert whatever BC game deficiency here) or that

as the standard, boilerplate, Hafley response, to every single sorta-tough media question about how they messed up on one specific thing in the game (pass protection, red-zone offense, protecting the ball, etc.) Of course you need to do better. But what exactly happened as to why it failed? What are you going to do to get better? How are you going to correct it? I almost think he doesn't know what he needs to do to correct it.

I know he's new and I would say (since these are all Addazio's players) that he gets a pass even THIS year. But next year (year 3) those will be his players and its time to get things done. And that means making the tough choices to make things "get better."