Clemson week

[ATLeagle]

Not that I follow such things, but the spread on the ND-GT game is less than Clemson-BC? Respect for Clemson or disrespect for ND?

Little of Column A and a little of Column B. I think bettors are justifiably wary of Notre Dame. The Notre Dame that showed up against Pitt is a legitimate playoff team—not good enough to beat OSU, Clemson or Alabama, but with a good enough defense to keep the loss respectable barring injuries—and better or as good as any of the other also rans. The Notre Dame that showed up against Louisville, Duke or Florida State will still beat Georgia Tech comfortably, but might not cover a big spread.

Notre Dame is a text book on how critical QB play is to the modern game. You really can’t get away with a game manager anymore like Alabama did at the beginning of the current dynastic run. Notre Dame’s defense is legit. There are 4 projected 1st rounders on the defense and a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks. Their defense is actually much better than Alabama’s current iteration and on a level with Clemson’s and Ohio States. Their O-line is the best they have had during Kelly’s tenure, currently 4 of their 5 starters are projected as 1st or 2nd round picks and all eight OL in their rotation are projected to get drafted, which is insane. They have 2 TEs who are projected as 1st round picks (Mike Florio has stated that their true freshman TE, Mike Mayer, looks like the most complete TE he has seen at the college level). The gaping hole that they have, and what keeps them from having a chance to play with the Big 3 is that Book is a middling 3 star recruit who plays to that level. Book is further exposed by a lack of experience at WR (there is talent there as well, but it is really, really young) and there is no Chase Claypool or Miles Boykin (both guys who took a couple of years to develop) to bail out Book’s shitty assortment of floaters, wobbling ducks and 50/50 balls (that are really 20/80 balls for receivers who aren’t beasts like Claypool and Boykin). Duke schemed well—they forced everything through Book and as such were able to keep it close until ND’s O-line wore them out in the 2nd half. Florida State did so as well—luring Book into some bad turnovers that lead to immediate scores before ND’s O-line ground them into dust. Louisville was the most interesting. It was a real windy day, which meant Book’s pea shooter arm was particularly ineffective. So Louisville stacked the box and made it as hard to run as they possibly could. What was more interesting was Notre Dame’s reaction—they just ran the ball and the clock. They correctly judged that Louisville was good for 7 points top and decided to play a clock burning service academy type game. ND ended up with 7 total possessions (scored on 3 of them) and Louisville had 6 total possessions (scored on one of them). The one time they let Book off his leash, he threw a pick in the end zone.

Anyway, if ND decides to go to ground because of Book’s numerous liabilities and shortcomings, they may not cover because they know their defense can strangle GT and why risk having Book hand GT a couple of easy scores, as he did against Florida State. With that said, given how we ran all over GT, I would expect Notre Dame to gash them for 300+ yards rushing with Book doing nothing but dinking and dunking to his RBs out of the backfield or his TEs.

Sounds like Jurk's big arm and threat to run would have been useful this year.

[OCs_Inner_Eagle]

there's more smoke;

@MikeGarafolo
#Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence has tested positive for COVID-19, sources tell me and @RapSheet The No. 1-ranked Tigers are slated to face #BostonCollege Saturday.

8:22 PM · Oct 29, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

the line mysteriously dropped 4 points a couple of hours ago

If true, it will drop considerably more than that tomorrow.

This is a game changer. I want BC to win, but not like this. I feel sorry for the kid.

Yes, I do as well, and for Clemson also. A star player missing a game for whatever reason is part of life; teams have to adjust as no one will give them a pass. But I always wish good health and a full season for each and every player, Eagles and opponents both. Goes to show how much the players (first) and the coaches should be commended for managing to avoid a positive test since players entered the program in June.

[OCs_Inner_Eagle]

Not that I follow such things, but the spread on the ND-GT game is less than Clemson-BC? Respect for Clemson or disrespect for ND?

Little of Column A and a little of Column B. I think bettors are justifiably wary of Notre Dame. The Notre Dame that showed up against Pitt is a legitimate playoff team—not good enough to beat OSU, Clemson or Alabama, but with a good enough defense to keep the loss respectable barring injuries—and better or as good as any of the other also rans. The Notre Dame that showed up against Louisville, Duke or Florida State will still beat Georgia Tech comfortably, but might not cover a big spread.

Notre Dame is a text book on how critical QB play is to the modern game. You really can’t get away with a game manager anymore like Alabama did at the beginning of the current dynastic run. Notre Dame’s defense is legit. There are 4 projected 1st rounders on the defense and a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks. Their defense is actually much better than Alabama’s current iteration and on a level with Clemson’s and Ohio States. Their O-line is the best they have had during Kelly’s tenure, currently 4 of their 5 starters are projected as 1st or 2nd round picks and all eight OL in their rotation are projected to get drafted, which is insane. They have 2 TEs who are projected as 1st round picks (Mike Florio has stated that their true freshman TE, Mike Mayer, looks like the most complete TE he has seen at the college level). The gaping hole that they have, and what keeps them from having a chance to play with the Big 3 is that Book is a middling 3 star recruit who plays to that level. Book is further exposed by a lack of experience at WR (there is talent there as well, but it is really, really young) and there is no Chase Claypool or Miles Boykin (both guys who took a couple of years to develop) to bail out Book’s shitty assortment of floaters, wobbling ducks and 50/50 balls (that are really 20/80 balls for receivers who aren’t beasts like Claypool and Boykin). Duke schemed well—they forced everything through Book and as such were able to keep it close until ND’s O-line wore them out in the 2nd half. Florida State did so as well—luring Book into some bad turnovers that lead to immediate scores before ND’s O-line ground them into dust. Louisville was the most interesting. It was a real windy day, which meant Book’s pea shooter arm was particularly ineffective. So Louisville stacked the box and made it as hard to run as they possibly could. What was more interesting was Notre Dame’s reaction—they just ran the ball and the clock. They correctly judged that Louisville was good for 7 points top and decided to play a clock burning service academy type game. ND ended up with 7 total possessions (scored on 3 of them) and Louisville had 6 total possessions (scored on one of them). The one time they let Book off his leash, he threw a pick in the end zone.

Anyway, if ND decides to go to ground because of Book’s numerous liabilities and shortcomings, they may not cover because they know their defense can strangle GT and why risk having Book hand GT a couple of easy scores, as he did against Florida State. With that said, given how we ran all over GT, I would expect Notre Dame to gash them for 300+ yards rushing with Book doing nothing but dinking and dunking to his RBs out of the backfield or his TEs.

Sounds like Jurk's big arm and threat to run would have been useful this year.

I can understand why the Finebaum people are flipping out over Lawrence's diagnosis. If I still did my shtick I'd be prescribing how the ACC needs to do a David Stern special for Clemson's game at ND. If you thought Game 6 of the 2002 WCF was bad....

In all seriousness, what happens if Jurk has a big game against ND? I would think Kelly will pull out the stops to avert that, on both sides of the ball. Spring all sorts of defensive tricks on him, and use a ball-control offense would keep him off the field. Then Kelly can compliment Jurkovec afterwards while stressing that to WIN with this team Book was the choice. But even if ND wins, if Jurkovec gashes them Kelly won't hear the end of it when their season ends in the ACCCG or the national semifinal.

[Dick Rosenthal]

Agree with Dick that winning a national championship these days turns on QB play. Ian Book doesn’t have the tools to do it, and their WRs aren’t at the level of the top contenders either. If that QB at BYU had been born in Chicago and baptized Catholic, we’d be talking about ND as a legit threat to win it all, but Ian Book can’t get them there, especially with a somewhat weaker crop of weapons than they’ve had in the past few years

This, although I think they have upgraded in a major way at RB and Mayer/Tremble is an upgrade over Kmet/Brock Wright at TE. The fall off is at WR. They weren't going to replace a transcendent WR like Claypool this year and the injuries to Austin and Lenzy have been crippling. They have a lot of physical talent at WR, but it is all very young and inexperienced and that is where the big drop off has occurred.

And yes, despite HJS' anti-Jurk agenda, they would have been much better off with Jurk starting for them this year. While their receivers are young and inexperienced and not great route runners at this point, they are also extremely fast. With Jurk they could just run those guys down the field throwing a few home run balls to keep the defense honest and giving the TEs--who are really talented-- and the kid from Northwestern who actually is a good route runner--room to work underneath. That is why the shut ins at ND Nation have a weekly "Jurk Watch" where they cry and nash their teeth about Jurk and highlight the throws he makes for us that Book can't hope to match.

[innocentbystander]

there's more smoke;

@MikeGarafolo
#Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence has tested positive for COVID-19, sources tell me and @RapSheet The No. 1-ranked Tigers are slated to face #BostonCollege Saturday.

8:22 PM · Oct 29, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

the line mysteriously dropped 4 points a couple of hours ago

If true, it will drop considerably more than that tomorrow.

This is a game changer. I want BC to win, but not like this. I feel sorry for the kid.

He'll be 100% fine and he'll be back the second the rules allow. Just like every other college football player who tested positive.

Yes I understand.

[BC923]

Agree with Dick that winning a national championship these days turns on QB play. Ian Book doesn’t have the tools to do it, and their WRs aren’t at the level of the top contenders either. If that QB at BYU had been born in Chicago and baptized Catholic, we’d be talking about ND as a legit threat to win it all, but Ian Book can’t get them there, especially with a somewhat weaker crop of weapons than they’ve had in the past few years

This, although I think they have upgraded in a major way at RB and Mayer/Tremble is an upgrade over Kmet/Brock Wright at TE. The fall off is at WR. They weren't going to replace a transcendent WR like Claypool this year and the injuries to Austin and Lenzy have been crippling. They have a lot of physical talent at WR, but it is all very young and inexperienced and that is where the big drop off has occurred.

And yes, despite HJS' anti-Jurk agenda, they would have been much better off with Jurk starting for them this year. While their receivers are young and inexperienced and not great route runners at this point, they are also extremely fast. With Jurk they could just run those guys down the field throwing a few home run balls to keep the defense honest and giving the TEs--who are really talented-- and the kid from Northwestern who actually is a good route runner--room to work underneath. That is why the shut ins at ND Nation have a weekly "Jurk Watch" where they cry and nash their teeth about Jurk and highlight the throws he makes for us that Book can't hope to match.

Good points at RB and TE, I think more and more WR is becoming the key position (outside of QB) to win the national championship though. No one has won a national championship without an elite receiver or two in a while. ND had actually been doing well (Claypool, Boykin) but the defense and the receiving core (leaving aside QB) didn’t peak at the same time. Under the right circumstances they could make the playoff, but I doubt they could win.

Incidentally the improvement of Flowers (and Gill transfer) is one of the reasons I’m most excited about Hafley. He’s taking the position seriously in a way neither of the last two coaches has and that’s key to competing at a high level.

[twballgame9]

The quality of your receivers often goes hand in hand with the quality of your QB. Zay Flowers, for example, was on last year's team too. He's a good receiver, but you never would have known it with Grosel under center.

[hansen]

Agree with Dick that winning a national championship these days turns on QB play. Ian Book doesn’t have the tools to do it, and their WRs aren’t at the level of the top contenders either. If that QB at BYU had been born in Chicago and baptized Catholic, we’d be talking about ND as a legit threat to win it all, but Ian Book can’t get them there, especially with a somewhat weaker crop of weapons than they’ve had in the past few years

This, although I think they have upgraded in a major way at RB and Mayer/Tremble is an upgrade over Kmet/Brock Wright at TE. The fall off is at WR. They weren't going to replace a transcendent WR like Claypool this year and the injuries to Austin and Lenzy have been crippling. They have a lot of physical talent at WR, but it is all very young and inexperienced and that is where the big drop off has occurred.

And yes, despite HJS' anti-Jurk agenda, they would have been much better off with Jurk starting for them this year. While their receivers are young and inexperienced and not great route runners at this point, they are also extremely fast. With Jurk they could just run those guys down the field throwing a few home run balls to keep the defense honest and giving the TEs--who are really talented-- and the kid from Northwestern who actually is a good route runner--room to work underneath. That is why the shut ins at ND Nation have a weekly "Jurk Watch" where they cry and nash their teeth about Jurk and highlight the throws he makes for us that Book can't hope to match.

Good points at RB and TE, I think more and more WR is becoming the key position (outside of QB) to win the national championship though. No one has won a national championship without an elite receiver or two in a while. ND had actually been doing well (Claypool, Boykin) but the defense and the receiving core (leaving aside QB) didn’t peak at the same time. Under the right circumstances they could make the playoff, but I doubt they could win.

Incidentally the improvement of Flowers (and Gill transfer) is one of the reasons I’m most excited about Hafley. He’s taking the position seriously in a way neither of the last two coaches has and that’s key to competing at a high level.

I feel like BAMA won a lot of championships with a strong QB and HB and a lock down defense.

[BC923]

The quality of your receivers often goes hand in hand with the quality of your QB. Zay Flowers, for example, was on last year's team too. He's a good receiver, but you never would have known it with Grosel under center.

This is obviously true, but it’s also apparent from his quotes and the coaches that they’re coaching him up and recognizing his talents too

[BC923]

Agree with Dick that winning a national championship these days turns on QB play. Ian Book doesn’t have the tools to do it, and their WRs aren’t at the level of the top contenders either. If that QB at BYU had been born in Chicago and baptized Catholic, we’d be talking about ND as a legit threat to win it all, but Ian Book can’t get them there, especially with a somewhat weaker crop of weapons than they’ve had in the past few years

This, although I think they have upgraded in a major way at RB and Mayer/Tremble is an upgrade over Kmet/Brock Wright at TE. The fall off is at WR. They weren't going to replace a transcendent WR like Claypool this year and the injuries to Austin and Lenzy have been crippling. They have a lot of physical talent at WR, but it is all very young and inexperienced and that is where the big drop off has occurred.

And yes, despite HJS' anti-Jurk agenda, they would have been much better off with Jurk starting for them this year. While their receivers are young and inexperienced and not great route runners at this point, they are also extremely fast. With Jurk they could just run those guys down the field throwing a few home run balls to keep the defense honest and giving the TEs--who are really talented-- and the kid from Northwestern who actually is a good route runner--room to work underneath. That is why the shut ins at ND Nation have a weekly "Jurk Watch" where they cry and nash their teeth about Jurk and highlight the throws he makes for us that Book can't hope to match.

Good points at RB and TE, I think more and more WR is becoming the key position (outside of QB) to win the national championship though. No one has won a national championship without an elite receiver or two in a while. ND had actually been doing well (Claypool, Boykin) but the defense and the receiving core (leaving aside QB) didn’t peak at the same time. Under the right circumstances they could make the playoff, but I doubt they could win.

Incidentally the improvement of Flowers (and Gill transfer) is one of the reasons I’m most excited about Hafley. He’s taking the position seriously in a way neither of the last two coaches has and that’s key to competing at a high level.

I feel like BAMA won a lot of championships with a strong QB and HB and a lock down defense.

The last time they’ve done it without a top notch receiver is 7 or 8 years ago at this point, before the offensive revolution that’s going on now

[twballgame9]

The quality of your receivers often goes hand in hand with the quality of your QB. Zay Flowers, for example, was on last year's team too. He's a good receiver, but you never would have known it with Grosel under center.

This is obviously true, but it’s also apparent from his quotes and the coaches that they’re coaching him up and recognizing his talents too

Completely fair. I was just noting that BC has had some good receivers for a while now and no one knew, and largely thought otherwise (well that was mostly epstein)

[HJS]

I feel like BAMA won a lot of championships with a strong QB and HB and a lock down defense.

The last time they’ve done it without a top notch receiver is 7 or 8 years ago at this point, before the offensive revolution that’s going on now

They didn't win it last year yet had 3 first rounders starting at WR (Ruggs, Waddle and Jeudy).

[claver2010]

hafley on eei yesterday: https://www.radio.com/weei/listen?t=160 ... =marketing

their site is weird but it pops up at bottom

[innocentbystander]

I feel like BAMA won a lot of championships with a strong QB and HB and a lock down defense.

The last time they’ve done it without a top notch receiver is 7 or 8 years ago at this point, before the offensive revolution that’s going on now

They didn't win it last year yet had 3 first rounders starting at WR (Ruggs, Waddle and Jeudy).

Nick Saban is a fantastic salesman. He can close the blue-chip 5-star better than any coach in the business. #1. And that sales skill (alone) has gotten him several national championships. His teams simply out-athlete everyone else.

Maybe the other coaches are finally on to him?

[Manny]

I still haven't Googled to see what this is, but thanks to Onyx I've had The Peeler and the Goat stuck in my head all damn day.

[MaxxPower325]

there's more smoke;

@MikeGarafolo
#Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence has tested positive for COVID-19, sources tell me and @RapSheet The No. 1-ranked Tigers are slated to face #BostonCollege Saturday.

8:22 PM · Oct 29, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

the line mysteriously dropped 4 points a couple of hours ago

If true, it will drop considerably more than that tomorrow.

This is a game changer. I want BC to win, but not like this. I feel sorry for the kid.

Yes, I do as well, and for Clemson also. A star player missing a game for whatever reason is part of life; teams have to adjust as no one will give them a pass. But I always wish good health and a full season for each and every player, Eagles and opponents both. Goes to show how much the players (first) and the coaches should be commended for managing to avoid a positive test since players entered the program in June.

While I understand the overall sentiment, I can’t really feel bad for Clemson when the back up QB was a top 10 overall recruit and the #1 QB, and the shabby 3rd stringer was merely the #4 QB in his class and has already been passed over 2 years into his career.

If Clemson struggles it will more likely be due to the handful of defensive players that may not play...but even there the second string could win most every game on the schedule.

[eepstein0]

The quality of your receivers often goes hand in hand with the quality of your QB. Zay Flowers, for example, was on last year's team too. He's a good receiver, but you never would have known it with Grosel under center.

This is obviously true, but it’s also apparent from his quotes and the coaches that they’re coaching him up and recognizing his talents too

Completely fair. I was just noting that BC has had some good receivers for a while now and no one knew, and largely thought otherwise (well that was mostly epstein)

The above is revisionist history. Tons of dropped balls and terrible WR play under the previous coach. I'll acknowledge the coaching of those WRs wasn't optimal.

[StratEagle]

The quality of your receivers often goes hand in hand with the quality of your QB. Zay Flowers, for example, was on last year's team too. He's a good receiver, but you never would have known it with Grosel under center.

This is obviously true, but it’s also apparent from his quotes and the coaches that they’re coaching him up and recognizing his talents too

Completely fair. I was just noting that BC has had some good receivers for a while now and no one knew, and largely thought otherwise (well that was mostly epstein)

The above is revisionist history. Tons of dropped balls and terrible WR play under the previous coach. I'll acknowledge the coaching of those WRs wasn't optimal.

Well Jeff Smith made the NFL, and Michael Walker kind of did too. Obviously Kobay White is one of the better receivers in program history. I even thought Benny Glines would have been a really solid player with a legit QB and system. There's been talent at least.

[twballgame9]

The quality of your receivers often goes hand in hand with the quality of your QB. Zay Flowers, for example, was on last year's team too. He's a good receiver, but you never would have known it with Grosel under center.

This is obviously true, but it’s also apparent from his quotes and the coaches that they’re coaching him up and recognizing his talents too

Completely fair. I was just noting that BC has had some good receivers for a while now and no one knew, and largely thought otherwise (well that was mostly epstein)

The above is revisionist history. Tons of dropped balls and terrible WR play under the previous coach. I'll acknowledge the coaching of those WRs wasn't optimal.

There's no revisionist history. The same bad receivers are good now. The difference? The QB and to some extent, the coaching. CJ Lewis didn't suddenly grow hands

[MaxxPower325]

The quality of your receivers often goes hand in hand with the quality of your QB. Zay Flowers, for example, was on last year's team too. He's a good receiver, but you never would have known it with Grosel under center.

This is obviously true, but it’s also apparent from his quotes and the coaches that they’re coaching him up and recognizing his talents too

Completely fair. I was just noting that BC has had some good receivers for a while now and no one knew, and largely thought otherwise (well that was mostly epstein)

The above is revisionist history. Tons of dropped balls and terrible WR play under the previous coach. I'll acknowledge the coaching of those WRs wasn't optimal.

There's no revisionist history. The same bad receivers are good now. The difference? The QB and to some extent, the coaching. CJ Lewis didn't suddenly grow hands

He appears to have grown balls tho

[twballgame9]

The quality of your receivers often goes hand in hand with the quality of your QB. Zay Flowers, for example, was on last year's team too. He's a good receiver, but you never would have known it with Grosel under center.

This is obviously true, but it’s also apparent from his quotes and the coaches that they’re coaching him up and recognizing his talents too

Completely fair. I was just noting that BC has had some good receivers for a while now and no one knew, and largely thought otherwise (well that was mostly epstein)

The above is revisionist history. Tons of dropped balls and terrible WR play under the previous coach. I'll acknowledge the coaching of those WRs wasn't optimal.

There's no revisionist history. The same bad receivers are good now. The difference? The QB and to some extent, the coaching. CJ Lewis didn't suddenly grow hands

He appears to have grown balls tho

Good throws will do that to you.

[lnnocent Bystander]

Listen to me. It comes down to this: You can't have a good football team without good football players.