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Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:22 am
by Darren6
NATIONAL CHAMPS! And one of the best CFB teams in history! Geaux Tigers

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:34 am
by HJS
twballgame9 wrote:Gundy and Hafley are dominating this shit. Patterson's talks alot like a dude that's drunk and confused at the Kells at 3 am.

It was this. Patterson was terrible. Talked over everyone and everything.

Gundy and Hafley had a good groove going but that may have been because they were working together for the Preview. Would’ve been nice to have had another Mason-like wallflower replacing Patterson. Some of the best parts of the Film Room is when they breakdown film. That’s what Gundy and Hafley were doing. Patterson was the drunk guy who would say “they should do this”... and regardless of what actually then happened in the game... then goes “See? I called it!”

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:48 am
by hansen
Darren6 wrote:NATIONAL CHAMPS! And one of the best CFB teams in history! Geaux Tigers


They were without a doubt the best team this year. History might be a little much but in the end all that matters is being the champions.
Anyway, congrats on the victory, ENJOY!

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:37 am
by b0mberMan
I stayed awake for like all of the punting and then fell asleep when it was 17-14 and missed all the other stuff.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:37 am
by b0mberMan
I stayed awake for like all of the punting and then fell asleep when it was 17-14 and missed all the other stuff.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:54 am
by fs33
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Gundy and Hafley are dominating this shit. Patterson's talks alot like a dude that's drunk and confused at the Kells at 3 am.

It was this. Patterson was terrible. Talked over everyone and everything.

Gundy and Hafley had a good groove going but that may have been because they were working together for the Preview. Would’ve been nice to have had another Mason-like wallflower replacing Patterson. Some of the best parts of the Film Room is when they breakdown film. That’s what Gundy and Hafley were doing. Patterson was the drunk guy who would say “they should do this”... and regardless of what actually then happened in the game... then goes “See? I called it!”


Yeah, Patterson made it unwatchable. They need to go down to three coaches so there is some continuity or bring back a moderator. Hafley did a nice job of driving the conversation by asking "What would you call in X spot?" "Would you accept the penalty here?" etc.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:56 am
by claver2010
b0mberMan wrote:I stayed awake for like all of the punting and then fell asleep when it was 17-14 and missed all the other stuff.


these games take way too long, i was out midway through the 3rd quarter

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:10 am
by b0mberMan
Yeah. It's not a reflection on the game. I was excited for it. I'm an old man now.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:11 am
by hansen
claver2010 wrote:
b0mberMan wrote:I stayed awake for like all of the punting and then fell asleep when it was 17-14 and missed all the other stuff.


these games take way too long, i was out midway through the 3rd quarter


I fell asleep at halftime. they should kickoff at 7:15 instead of 8:15 since it's a Monday night.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:18 am
by flyingelvii
It was still a 4 hour game, which is ridiculous and that's largely because LSU was happy to control the clock in the 4th quarter. That's not great.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:42 am
by Dick Rosenthal
Four things:

(1) I don't understand the Patterson hatred. He absolutely called three or four big plays in advance that both Gundy and Hafley whiffed on--Hafley made a couple of admiring asides about Patterson seeing something that he missed. That isn't to say Hafley and Gundy weren't good or even better than Patterson--they were--but Patterson pulled some plays out of his ass that no one else on the panel saw coming--a couple of Burrows QB draws stand out in that regard. I also found his spot on critiques of Venables to be highly interesting and entertaining.

(2) With all due respect to LSU, this offense is only this prolific because of the rules changes that have become progressively more anti-defense over the last five years, so comparing this team to anything that came before is silly. If nutrition, etc. were equal across decades, I am pretty sure this offense would not be doing much against the Nebraska Blackshirt or Arizona Desert Swarm defenses of the 90s, the Miami Hurricanes of the 80s, or the Notre Dame or Alabama defenses of the 70s. It is easy to be prolific when you can run untouched routes over the middle that would have resulted in a lot of dead receivers just a decade ago. Also, as much as it pains me to say it, the USC team that massacred Oklahoma in 05 or thereabouts would have crushed this LSU team straight up.

(3) Venables panicked at key moments in the game. Some of the coverages he called in relation to down and distance were inexplicable.

(4) Very excited about Hafley. He is clearly a football nerd/student of the game who would probably break down film for fun if he were not getting paid to do it. Don't think we have had that sort of coach since Coughlin (Jags was good on the CEO aspects of the job, but my sense was that Logan was the xs and os guy).

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:47 pm
by Darren6
hansen wrote:
Darren6 wrote:NATIONAL CHAMPS! And one of the best CFB teams in history! Geaux Tigers


They were without a doubt the best team this year. History might be a little much but in the end all that matters is being the champions.
Anyway, congrats on the victory, ENJOY!


It’s debatable, but we beat 7 top ten teams this year(at time of kickoff), a feat that I don’t believe has ever done before (5 of these teams finished in the top ten)...beat all of the top four preseason ranked teams, not that preseason rankings mean squat.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:03 pm
by ATLeagle
LSU is good but not all time great. They got a C+ game from Lawrence and Clemson. Lawrence was way off. The guy who beat Bama last year would have killed them.

Burrow is also good but not all time great. LSU's real advantage was their WRs, who make him look good.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:18 pm
by HJS
Dick Rosenthal wrote:(1) I don't understand the Patterson hatred. He absolutely called three or four big plays in advance that both Gundy and Hafley whiffed on--Hafley made a couple of admiring asides about Patterson seeing something that he missed. That isn't to say Hafley and Gundy weren't good or even better than Patterson--they were--but Patterson pulled some plays out of his ass that no one else on the panel saw coming--a couple of Burrows QB draws stand out in that regard. I also found his spot on critiques of Venables to be highly interesting and entertaining.

Patterson called a couple of big plays before they happened. He also called a whole bunch more that never happened. He's basically me in the Coaching Carousel thread.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:30 pm
by claver2010
well done hjs

from an accomplishment standpoint lsu has to be up there.

agreed on clemson's c+ game. d wasn't as good as last year (IRregardless of the numbers). as much as they're in reload mode they still lost 4 NFL DL, last night needed to bring extra to get to lawrence and when they did their corners couldn't keep up (after losing one to the 2nd round).

offense might've been better than last year but lawrence had an off night

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:50 pm
by twballgame9
HJS wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:(1) I don't understand the Patterson hatred. He absolutely called three or four big plays in advance that both Gundy and Hafley whiffed on--Hafley made a couple of admiring asides about Patterson seeing something that he missed. That isn't to say Hafley and Gundy weren't good or even better than Patterson--they were--but Patterson pulled some plays out of his ass that no one else on the panel saw coming--a couple of Burrows QB draws stand out in that regard. I also found his spot on critiques of Venables to be highly interesting and entertaining.

Patterson called a couple of big plays before they happened. He also called a whole bunch more that never happened. He's basically me in the Coaching Carousel thread.


This. And Gundy had the call of the night on the fade from the slot.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:00 pm
by eagle33
twballgame9 wrote:
HJS wrote:
Dick Rosenthal wrote:(1) I don't understand the Patterson hatred. He absolutely called three or four big plays in advance that both Gundy and Hafley whiffed on--Hafley made a couple of admiring asides about Patterson seeing something that he missed. That isn't to say Hafley and Gundy weren't good or even better than Patterson--they were--but Patterson pulled some plays out of his ass that no one else on the panel saw coming--a couple of Burrows QB draws stand out in that regard. I also found his spot on critiques of Venables to be highly interesting and entertaining.

Patterson called a couple of big plays before they happened. He also called a whole bunch more that never happened. He's basically me in the Coaching Carousel thread.


This. And Gundy had the call of the night on the fade from the slot.



never liked gundy. then i watched the 5pm show when it was just him and hafley breaking down film and it changed my mind. guy is sharp as a tack as is hafley. hafley's nfl pedigree was mentioned a number of times during the show by both haf and gundy. hafley's looking to parlay the bc job into an nfl gig, hope it works out for him.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:58 pm
by twballgame9

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:14 pm
by hansen
Watched the 2nd half of the game tonight.

Thought the offensive pass interference call was bullshit. It probably wouldn’t have changed the final outcome but it did come at a critical time in the game. Clemson might have had a chance to make a comeback. Overall, LSU made more plays and deserved to win the game.

P.s. Trevor Lawrence had won 70 straight games as a starter (high school plus college) until last night. That is insane.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:44 pm
by Dick Rosenthal
Darren6 wrote:
hansen wrote:
Darren6 wrote:NATIONAL CHAMPS! And one of the best CFB teams in history! Geaux Tigers


They were without a doubt the best team this year. History might be a little much but in the end all that matters is being the champions.
Anyway, congrats on the victory, ENJOY!


It’s debatable, but we beat 7 top ten teams this year(at time of kickoff), a feat that I don’t believe has ever done before (5 of these teams finished in the top ten)...beat all of the top four preseason ranked teams, not that preseason rankings mean squat.


It was actually done by multiple teams in the 1980s. You have a very good team and a deserving national champion, but with all due respect your offense would never stand up to the type of defense teams were allowed to play 5 years ago and all of your incredibly fast and talented WRs would have been in the hospital running the sorts of patterns they run if they had played in the 90s or early 2000s. Considering Clemson had a guy ejected for pulling up on an easy kill shot, I'd hate to see what would happen to your kids playing in an era where safeties were taught and encouraged to lead with the head on over the middle routes.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:17 am
by flyingelvii
Well it's a good thing they aren't playing them then. Things change. Sports evolve. Rules change. You can only play in the context of the era you are in. No matter how many times you repeat the same argument.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:08 pm
by Dick Rosenthal
flyingelvii wrote:Well it's a good thing they aren't playing them then. Things change. Sports evolve. Rules change. You can only play in the context of the era you are in. No matter how many times you repeat the same argument.


That is all correct. I merely raise it because most of the arguments made for why this LSU team is “the greatest ever” is their unusually prolific offense. I merely point out that their offense is only unusually prolific in comparison to some of the great teams in the past because the rules have changed so much that yards per game, points, etc. are meaningless because it has become so much easier to move the football. I point out the fact that other teams have played more impressive schedules to again illustrate that that particular stat also does not way in their favor either.

I would also agree that it is difficult to compare teams across eras because each era is unique and different and physical size has changed so radically in even the last 20 years, as such I think the only way you can make a fair evaluation is to compare the particular “all time great team” against the rest of its competition, in its era, and compare how dominant it was in that particular era versus how dominant an “all time great team” from a different era was against its contemporaries. That way you don’t run into arguments like “Well, the 1950s era Oklahoma teams would get crushed by a modern MAC team based on size and speed alone”, which is true but fails to capture what Wilkinson’s teams did and how badly they whipped up on everyone they played. Ditto Red Blaik’s army teams of WWII, Frank Leahy’s post WWII Notre Dame teams (who actually beat NFL teams in scrimmages), or the Nebraska or Oklahoma dynasties of the 1970s.

Anyway, under that sort of methodology, LSU is probably not too 10 all time, which is no disgrace, they are still an awesome team. If you have a better evaluation system I am all ears as I don’t have much of a dog in the fight—I just hate the ESPN tendency to declare newer teams or players “The GOAT” without much methodology supporting the argument.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:24 pm
by hansen
Dick Rosenthal wrote:
flyingelvii wrote:Well it's a good thing they aren't playing them then. Things change. Sports evolve. Rules change. You can only play in the context of the era you are in. No matter how many times you repeat the same argument.


That is all correct. I merely raise it because most of the arguments made for why this LSU team is “the greatest ever” is their unusually prolific offense. I merely point out that their offense is only unusually prolific in comparison to some of the great teams in the past because the rules have changed so much that yards per game, points, etc. are meaningless because it has become so much easier to move the football. I point out the fact that other teams have played more impressive schedules to again illustrate that that particular stat also does not way in their favor either.

I would also agree that it is difficult to compare teams across eras because each era is unique and different and physical size has changed so radically in even the last 20 years, as such I think the only way you can make a fair evaluation is to compare the particular “all time great team” against the rest of its competition, in its era, and compare how dominant it was in that particular era versus how dominant an “all time great team” from a different era was against its contemporaries. That way you don’t run into arguments like “Well, the 1950s era Oklahoma teams would get crushed by a modern MAC team based on size and speed alone”, which is true but fails to capture what Wilkinson’s teams did and how badly they whipped up on everyone they played. Ditto Red Blaik’s army teams of WWII, Frank Leahy’s post WWII Notre Dame teams (who actually beat NFL teams in scrimmages), or the Nebraska or Oklahoma dynasties of the 1970s.

Anyway, under that sort of methodology, LSU is probably not too 10 all time, which is no disgrace, they are still an awesome team. If you have a better evaluation system I am all ears as I don’t have much of a dog in the fight—I just hate the ESPN tendency to declare newer teams or players “The GOAT” without much methodology supporting the argument.


LSU is definitely the team of this decade so far. I think that much we can all agree on.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:47 pm
by Corporal Funishment
hansen wrote:
LSU is definitely the team of this decade so far. I think that much we can all agree on.


Cincinnati was more dominant

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:47 pm
by Los
Miami 2001 is still the greatest college football team I've ever seen. If not most accomplished, certainly the most talented. Reading that college roster is like reading a Pro Bowl roster from 2006.

Re: Championship Game thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:26 am
by b0mberMan
Los wrote:Miami 2001 is still the greatest college football team I've ever seen. If not most accomplished, certainly the most talented. Reading that college roster is like reading a Pro Bowl roster from 2006.


It's insane that we were in a position to beat them even without Willie Green.